Poll of the Day > SHOCKER!! George Floyd's FRIEND who was in the CAR with him will NOT TESTIFY!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

In a SHOCKING TWIST, 42 y/o Morries Lester Hall who was in the CAR with 46 y/o George Floyd has now REFUSED to testify in court and has plead the fifth in a exclusive from Dailymail!!

He spoke out publicly in months since the incident outside Cup Foods and has consistently said Floyd did not resist arrest and he himself attempted to diffuse the situation

But in a surprise twist, Hall who is on the state's witness list, filed a motion late Wednesday to give notice he is pleading the fifth on either side as the decision came at the end of the 3rd day in Derek Chauvin's trial which saw the jurors shown previously unseen footage of Chauvin with his hands around Floyd's neck and trying to wrestle him into a patrol car

It says "Mr Morries Lester Hall, hereby provides notice all parties in this matter that if called to testify, he will invoke his 5th Amendment privilege against self-incrimination"

Hall, like Floyd is a Houston native as the 2 men had connection with each other in minneaplois through a pastor

He considered Floyd a "mentor" and kept in touch every day since 2016 and said "I'm a key witness to the cops murdering George Floyd, and they want to kno wmy side. Whatever i've been through, it's all over now. it's not about me. I walk with floyd, i will be his voice"

But Hall wasn't cooperative in the investigation as he had outstanding warrants for felony possession of a firearm, felony domestic assault and felony drug possession and as well gave a fa lse name at the time"

Chauvin is standing trial on 3 counts of second and third degree murder and second degree manslaughter and if convicted faces 40 years in the big house or if convicted of a lesser charge, he can be free as little as 5 or be ACQUITTED.

19 y/o cashier, Christopher Martin, who took to the stand to state he was originally going to let the $20 fraud money go and take the hit but ended up at the last minute to report it to his boss who then called polic. Surveillance shows him looking at the bill several times noticing it had blue marks signalling it's fake. He said Floyd looked high when he was at the counter.

Prosecutors have 2 and a half weeks to mount the case against him as they went through several testimony and emotional witnesses who saw what took place

Do you think the Police got to him to get him not to talk?

https://i.imgur.com/Nv5cth7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2NuBhIK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HZodgbJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BUELLHS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XtiGtCL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jM8C6hh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/11w5SvG.jpg
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'member how the guy that testified in the Amber Guyger trial ended up murdered like literally a week after sentencing?

Don't blame this dude one bit for being afraid to testify, he don't wanna die, too.
The cops are like the mafia, except also the law, so there's literally no escaping their wrath.

Not surprised he won't testify.

"SHOCKER!" makes it sound facetious, but then you seemingly mention surprise?

Full Throttle posted...

In a SHOCKING TWIST, 42 y/o Morries Lester Hall who was in the CAR with 46 y/o George Floyd has now REFUSED to testify in court and has plead the fifth in a exclusive from Dailymail!!

Guessing he was where Floyd got the counterfeit bill from?

streamofthesky posted...

'member how the guy that testified in the Amber Guyger trial ended up murdered like literally a week after sentencing?

Don't blame this dude one bit for being afraid to testify, he don't wanna die, too.
The cops are like the mafia, except also the law, so there's literally no escaping their wrath.

Conspiracy theories are fun, aren't they? Never mind that his murderer was arrested, or to the countless other cases where a friend came forward as a witness where nothing happened afterward -_-

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i like being alive too, i cant fault him, ok?

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Zeus posted...

Guessing he was where Floyd got the counterfeit bill from?

Zeus posted...

Conspiracy theories are fun, aren't they?

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crazy that they've got like dozens of witnesses and video footage from all sorts of angles and Chauvin still getting off

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Blightzkrieg posted...

crazy that they've got like dozens of witnesses and video footage from all sorts of angles and Chauvin still getting off

There shouldn't even need to be anything more than what's already common knowledge:

• Is it considered proper police protocol to kneel on the neck of a suspect to subdue them? No.
• Can kneeling on somebody's neck kill them? Yes.
• Did Floyd die after having his neck knelt on? Yes.

The first point means Chauvin was acting inappropriately as a cop, and therefore should not have any protections afforded for those actions based on being a cop. The second means he committed attempted murder. The third means his murder attempt succeeded and he committed murder.

This should be an incredibly straightforward case.

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adjl posted...

There shouldn't even need to be anything more than what's already common knowledge:

* Is it considered proper police protocol to kneel on the neck of a suspect to subdue them? No.
* Can kneeling on somebody's neck kill them? Yes.
* Did Floyd die after having his neck knelt on? Yes.
The first point means Chauvin was acting inappropriately as a cop, and therefore should not have any protections afforded for those actions based on being a cop. The second means he committed attempted murder. The third means his murder attempt succeeded and he committed murder.

This should be an incredibly straightforward case.

• Was the victim black, poor, mentally ill or challenged, on drugs, or otherwise undesirable in some way? Excellent work officer!

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Kotenks posted...

You're not going to ask us if he's hot?

I was hoping he would ask that, because the dude has potential.

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adjl posted...

Zeus posted...
Guessing he was where Floyd got the counterfeit bill from?
Zeus posted...
Conspiracy theories are fun, aren't they?

its amazing the mods are letting zeus continue on with his rampant racism, ok?

it should be noted, he was a rabid supporter of the protestors in charlottesville. a large majority who later joined members of groups like the proud boys, or the other groups who the cia now has on terrorist watch lists, ok?

but why should the mods be proactive when it comes to them allowing obvious racism going under their radar, when being reactive to a posters repeated white nationalist propaganda suffices just fine, ok? as long as its worded just right, theyll let a fox run free through the hen house, what could go wrong?

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adjl posted...

There shouldn't even need to be anything more than what's already common knowledge:

* Is it considered proper police protocol to kneel on the neck of a suspect to subdue them? No.
* Can kneeling on somebody's neck kill them? Yes.
* Did Floyd die after having his neck knelt on? Yes.
The first point means Chauvin was acting inappropriately as a cop, and therefore should not have any protections afforded for those actions based on being a cop. The second means he committed attempted murder. The third means his murder attempt succeeded and he committed murder.

This should be an incredibly straightforward case.

with no regard to the topic, your logic is flawed

* Can kneeling on somebody's neck kill them? Yes.
means he committed attempted murder

that does not fly, there are lots of things that can kill you, that doesn't make them attempted murder. you have to demonstrate a lot of things in between.

* Did Floyd die after having his neck knelt on? Yes.
means his murder attempt succeeded and he committed murder

blatant "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy

with regard to the issue I pretty much agree, but this reasoning is just bad (especially since you're presenting that as if it was all the legal reasoning needed to convict...)

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adjl posted...

There shouldn't even need to be anything more than what's already common knowledge:

* Is it considered proper police protocol to kneel on the neck of a suspect to subdue them? No.
* Can kneeling on somebody's neck kill them? Yes.
* Did Floyd die after having his neck knelt on? Yes.
The first point means Chauvin was acting inappropriately as a cop, and therefore should not have any protections afforded for those actions based on being a cop. The second means he committed attempted murder. The third means his murder attempt succeeded and he committed murder.

This should be an incredibly straightforward case.

There is a looooot of things between your points that the prosecution has to prove. I agree the cop should be charged but it's not nearly as straightforward as it should be.

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How does somebody plead the 5th to a tabloid located in the UK?
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Sahuagin posted...

that does not fly, there are lots of things that can kill you, that doesn't make them attempted murder. you have to demonstrate a lot of things in between.

There are, but I feel like this particular example carries a high enough risk to qualify as attempted murder, particularly where it is a deliberate violent act. This is very different from, say, driving normally, which can kill passengers, but almost certainly won't.

Sahuagin posted...

blatant "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy

with regard to the issue I pretty much agree, but this reasoning is just bad (especially since you're presenting that as if it was all the legal reasoning needed to convict...)

On its own, yes, but I feel like it goes without saying that the close proximity of the two events and obvious medical connection between them means one can safely infer a causal relationship. You're correct that additional context is required to justify the conviction, but that context is pretty obvious to everyone and therefore doesn't really need to be explicitly outlined outside of a court situation (where it's going to happen regardless of how silly I say it is).

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so a man died in a horrible incident, and the guy is looking out for himself

classy

InfernalFive posted...

There is a looooot of things between your points that the prosecution has to prove. I agree the cop should be charged but it's not nearly as straightforward as it should be.

Agreed. You are allowed to use knee on neck holds in Minnesota. Furthermore, Floyd was evidently resisting arrest, so it could be possibly justified to use such a hold to subdue him, although it does seem a bit excessive. Furthermore, he had drugs in his system at the time, which while was not declared the way he died, could have been a contributing factor in his death and made him hard to deal with bolstering the resisting the arrest case.

I think it will be hard to prove murder, but a think you can prove manslaughter, since while perhaps the knee on neck could be justified it did seem to last way too long. They easily could've cuffed him and went. But we will see.

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Fam_Fam posted...

so a man died in a horrible incident, and the guy is looking out for himself

classy

Wait what? Accident?

DragonClaw01 posted...

I think it will be hard to prove murder, but a think you can prove manslaughter, since while perhaps the knee on neck could be justified it did seem to last way too long.

Even without looking at the knee-on-neck thing, Chauvin refused to resuscitate him and prevented other officers from calling for medical aid. It's blatantly obvious he wanted Floyd to die. That's not manslaughter.

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adjl posted...

Even without looking at the knee-on-neck thing, Chauvin refused to resuscitate him and prevented other officers from calling for medical aid. It's blatantly obvious he wanted Floyd to die. That's not manslaughter.

They called in a medical team and the paramedics arrived. Chauvin did not attempt to resuscitate Floyd since he had to deal with angry crowds encroaching on them according to testimony.

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DragonClaw01 posted...

They called in a medical team and the paramedics arrived. Chauvin did not attempt to resuscitate Floyd since he had to deal with angry crowds encroaching on them according to testimony.

Wow I wonder what they were angry about

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DragonClaw01 posted...

They called in a medical team

After several minutes. It's been a while since my last first aid training, but I'm pretty sure waiting several minutes to call for medical aid when somebody isn't breathing isn't exactly recommended protocol.

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adjl posted...

I feel like this particular example carries a high enough risk to qualify

you feel?

adjl posted...

I feel like it goes without saying that the close proximity of the two events and obvious medical connection between them means one can safely infer a causal relationship

you feel that it's causal, so it's causal?

this isn't just wrong, you should avoid this kind of fallacious reasoning in general, for your sake and everyone's

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Sahuagin posted...

you feel that it's causal, so it's causal?

this isn't just wrong, you should avoid this kind of fallacious reasoning in general, for your sake and everyone's

There's pretty much always a line to be arbitrarily drawn whenever you decide that a correlation meets the criteria to infer a causal relationship. That doesn't mean one shouldn't be careful about jumping to conclusions, but to suggest that it's always fallacious to infer causality without concrete proof of such a relationship is just plain wrong.

Sahuagin posted...

you feel?

I mean, I could go into further detail on how I arrived at that position, but for the purposes of informal conversation, saying that I find the conclusion intuitive and straightforward based on readily-available information is generally good enough, particularly where such a statement carries the implication that the reader will also arrive at the same conclusion if they consider the same readily-available information that I'm working with. Sure, it's not a comprehensive argument and it doesn't prove much of anything on its own, but this is casual conversation, not a court. Not everything needs to be spelled out here.

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adjl posted...

to suggest that it's always fallacious to infer causality without concrete proof

it's fallacious to infer causality without sufficient justification and your feelings are not sufficient. you're blatantly stating a post hoc fallacy and your personal intuition as sufficient justification for conviction (or is it indictment?) of a crime. there's no grey area there, that's just blatantly flawed reasoning.

adjl posted...

this is casual conversation, not a court.

you specifically presented your points as sufficient justification for conviction...

crazy that they've got like dozens of witnesses and video footage from all sorts of angles and Chauvin still getting off

adjl posted...
There shouldn't even need to be anything more than what's already common knowledge: <your fallacious points>

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Sahuagin posted...

it's fallacious to infer causality without sufficient justification and your feelings are not sufficient.

And the sufficient justification is common knowledge.

Furthermore, I'd actually go so far as to say that there's no practical value in concluding a direct causal link between attempted murder and the victim's immediate death. Anyone who is doing something that stands a good chance of killing a person might as well be convicted of murder for that person's death within a reasonable time frame ("reasonable time frame," of course, being open to subjective interpretation, but Floyd's death would fall comfortably within that window regardless of where the line is drawn and that wiggle room is therefore moot in this case), since they clearly are not the sort of person we want on the streets any more so than a definitive murderer would be. The pedantry inherent in the legal system demands more robust logical proof than that, but I see no reason to consider that anything more than a legal technicality that has to be worked around to effect the best outcome for everyone.

Sahuagin posted...

you specifically presented your points as sufficient justification for conviction...

When paired with common knowledge. Again, casual conversation, no real need to spell out exactly how kneeling on somebody's neck and then having them die are related because everybody understands that already.

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Sahuagin posted...

blatant "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy

Using the full wording of latin makes me hate you.
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adjl posted...

Anyone who is doing something that stands a good chance of killing a person might as well be convicted of murder for that person's death within a reasonable time frame

Good thing kneeling on the neck rarely is fatal and it's a common technique of the police then.
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adjl posted...

And the sufficient justification is common knowledge.

what sufficient justification? you haven't presented any, though you claimed to have.

adjl posted...

pedantry inherent in the legal system

pedantry in the legal system? ...so the legal system shouldn't care so much about details and correctness? are you serious?

adjl posted...

When paired with common knowledge. Again, casual conversation, no real need to spell out exactly how kneeling on somebody's neck and then having them die are related because everybody understands that already.

again, you presented this as being *sufficient* (ie: all that is needed) *in the context of a courtroom*, not just in casual conversation and not with anything left out. you're directly contradicting your original statement.

this is so flagrantly dishonest. the whole point is that you can kneel on someone's neck, and they can die, and their death can have had nothing to do with the kneeling; hence why it must actually be shown that they are indeed causal beyond just some ignoramous "feeling" that they are. what you are suggesting would be unjust, immoral, illogical, and dishonest.

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Sahuagin posted...

the whole point is that you can kneel on someone's neck, and they can die, and their death can have had nothing to do with the kneeling

Kneeling on a neck is definitely not fatal. George Floyd is clearly alive.
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There is no justification for kneeling on the man for so long after he was unresponsive, not breathing, and a pulse could not be found.

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DragonClaw01 posted...

They called in a medical team and the paramedics arrived. Chauvin did not attempt to resuscitate Floyd since he had to deal with angry crowds encroaching on them according to testimony.

They were so dangerous and angry that his three police buddies were able to hold the crowd at bay for over 7 minutes while he murdered Floyd just by staring at them and telling them to stay back. Yeah...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Good thing kneeling on the neck rarely is fatal and it's a common technique of the police then.

Kyuubei is worthless, full of shit, and entirely beyond redemption or help. But for any who don't know that yet, and somehow missed the post a few before his:

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Sahuagin posted...

the whole point is that you can kneel on someone's neck, and they can die, and their death can have had nothing to do with the kneeling;

That would, however, be very unlikely, presuming the death occurred soon after the kneeling. To that end, unless it can be proven that the death had nothing to do with the kneeling (proof whose burden lies on those attempting to make such a claim), I would consider it reasonable to convict the kneeler of murder. They got the outcome they attempted to get, regardless of how direcso it only seems fair to give them the consequence

There's ample precedent for exonerating people who committed assault and whose victim died, provided death was not a reasonably predictable outcome of the assault. Punching a hemophiliac, for example, may cause fatal internal bleeding, but the person who punched them typically won't be held responsible for their death unless it can be proven that they knew better. This is not such a case, though. Kneeling on somebody's neck can kill pretty much anyone. Everyone knows about the risk of asphyxiation. Most people would also recognize the risk of cervical factures. Anyone with medical training (who would be involved in advising police protocol) would know that applying enough pressure to the carotid sinus can stop the heart. It can be very comfortably presumed that Chauvin knew better (or, if he didn't, his superiors should be on the hook for failing to ensure that the officers they're hiring have an IQ above room temperature). Without clear proof to the contrary, there's no reason to even suspect that kneeling on Floyd's neck didn't play a major role in his death.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Good thing kneeling on the neck rarely is fatal and it's a common technique of the police then.

Kneeling down on someones neck long after theyve stopped resisting, claimed they cant breath, stopped breathing, and no longer have a detectable pulse is in no way a proper police technique.

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adjl posted...

unless it can be proven that the death had nothing to do with the kneeling (proof whose burden lies on those attempting to make such a claim), I would consider it reasonable to convict the kneeler of murder

you have that backwards. the burden of proof is on the prosecution. why do I even need to say that? and there's all kinds of things you have to show in between, like motive, intent, actual cause of death, actual order of events, potential lethality of the action, actual lethality of what actually happened, etc.etc.etc.

additionally, this is an argument from ignorance; your explanation doesn't "win" by default, you have to meet standards of evidence, burden of proof, etc.

adjl posted...

applying enough pressure to the carotid sinus can stop the heart

ok, finally more information than you originally said was sufficient for conviction of murder. I don't know if that's true or not (I see some controversy over the degree to which that is the case), but at least you've potentially established a connection between applying pressure to a neck and stopping a heart. you'd still have to show that that actually occurred though.

adjl posted...

Without clear proof to the contrary, there's no reason to even suspect that kneeling on Floyd's neck didn't play a major role in his death.

argument from ignorance. I have no idea if kneeling on his neck contributed or to what degree it contributed, or was directly responsible, or was purely coincidental. I would like to actually know though, without making huge jumps in logic like you're doing.

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It will be hard to ever prove murder. Floyd was absolutely tripping balls when getting arrested and was resisting arrest. The police did not even initially attend to utilize a chokehold until Floyd crawled his way out of the police car after resisting arrest repeatedly and the initial application seem reasonable given the circumstances. With this it would be hard to prove that Chauvin came into the engagement initially trying to kill Floyd.

However, it does seem like manslaughter will be reasonable because he should've let the chokehold off when the body went limp as you are trained to to but it will be hard to prove that this was anything but a misjudgment in the heat of moment given a resisting, drug addled perp and a crowd that was continuously jeering at him (rightfully so, but pride enters the picture and emotion will get the best of you). Plus he went from normal to dead pretty fast. Video for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gQYMBALDXc&t=400s

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How many more minutes did the cop need to kneel down on the dying/dead man in order for some of yall to see this as murder?

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Mead posted...

How many more minutes did the cop need to kneel down on the dying/dead man in order for some of yall to see this as murder?

Infinite minutes?
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Sahuagin posted...

you have that backwards. the burden of proof is on the prosecution. why do I even need to say that? and there's all kinds of things you have to show in between, like motive, intent, actual cause of death, actual order of events, potential lethality of the action, actual lethality of what actually happened, etc.etc.etc.

If you kneel on someone's neck until they stop breathing, you're already way beyond reasonable doubt.

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Mead posted...

How many more minutes did the cop need to kneel down on the dying/dead man in order for some of yall to see this as murder?

How long after death until the corpse turns white

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ClarkDuke posted...

its amazing the mods are letting zeus continue on with his rampant racism, ok?

it should be noted, he was a rabid supporter of the protestors in charlottesville. a large majority who later joined members of groups like the proud boys, or the other groups who the cia now has on terrorist watch lists, ok?

but why should the mods be proactive when it comes to them allowing obvious racism going under their radar, when being reactive to a posters repeated white nationalist propaganda suffices just fine, ok? as long as its worded just right, theyll let a fox run free through the hen house, what could go wrong?

then clearly THE MODS ARE RACIST AS WELL. prove me wrong by banning Zues.

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Mead posted...

How many more minutes did the cop need to kneel down on the dying/dead man in order for some of yall to see this as murder?

Nine minutes was already massive overkill. For the uninformed, people generally pass out around two minutes without oxygen. Four minutes without oxygen leads to permanent brain damage. Five to six minutes without oxygen is death.

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Oof

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Kotenks posted...

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/status/1379152601984434180

Testimony from police chief. With police witnesses like these,this should never have gone to trial.

Looks like he's being thrown under the bus as a "bad apple", legit didn't see that coming.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Looks like he's being thrown under the bus as a "bad apple", legit didn't see that coming.

Still skeptical he'll actually be punished.
But maybe they hope if they go hard on him, the other 3 can get off with no jail at all and people won't go into angry riots over it b/c they'll be distracted and happy w/ Chauvin actually getting a long jail stint.

streamofthesky posted...

Still skeptical he'll actually be punished.
But maybe they hope if they go hard on him, the other 3 can get off with no jail at all and people won't go into angry riots over it b/c they'll be distracted and happy w/ Chauvin actually getting a long jail stint.

He deserves a long jail sentence anyway.
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