Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 365: Get those Checks in our Balances

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ashethan posted...

Republicans lost all rights to any civil discourse over the past four years.

*Checks the Bill of Rights* Still there.
*Checks the Senate* 50% Republican.

So I guess Republicans still have rights!

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red sox 777 posted...

*Checks the Bill of Rights* Still there.

Which amendment is that again?

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TheRock1525 posted...

Joe Biden tackling the important issues:

https://twitter.com/GameSpot/status/1364681540425383939

Winning in Mario Kart wasn't a fulfilling enough experience. He's looking for some Demon's Souls PvP action.

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Ashethan posted...

Which amendment is that again?

First amendment - freedom of speech.

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red sox 777 posted...

First amendment - freedom of speech.

Nowhere do I see "Right to civil discourse" in there. But please feel free to show it to me.

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There is a right to speak. That implies a right to speak civilly. And uncivilly. All sides have all of these rights.

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red sox 777 posted...

There is a right to speak. That implies a right to speak civilly. And uncivilly. All sides have all of these rights.

Conservatives can speak all they want. They don't get to expect people to be civil toward them after how they've acted. Maybe your side should've thought about that before you acted all uncivil? We're only treating you the way you want to be treated. After all, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. We can only assume you want to be treated this way.

I mean look at Ted Cruz. Trump insults his wife, calls his father a serial killer, and Ted Cruz still has his lips firmly attached to Trump's ass. If we want Cruz's respect, we can only assume we should do the same.

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Also, I think we may have briefly mentioned this story when it came up but there's been (even more crazy) developments: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/24/971098526/south-dakota-ag-faces-impeachment-calls-to-resign-over-new-evidence-in-fatal-cra

So, back in September, the South Dakota AG hit and killed a man while driving. He claimed he thought he hit a deer and didn't know it was a man until the next day when he returned to the scene after the cops said they didn't find any deer at the site.

Well, a week ago it came back that he was being charged with three misdemeanors that each have a maximum penalty of 30 days jail and a $500 fine. Because apparently in South Dakota vehicular homicide can only be charged if you were intoxicated (and he wasn't tested for BAC until 15 hours after the incident)

Well, then came out videos from the investigation and interrogation and it's... uh... well, probably pretty unsurprising, but awful nonetheless.

The investigators point out he was driving on the shoulder when he claimed to be in the middle of the road, that the victim had a bright flashlight that witnesses had seen him walking with earlier and questioning him over his denial that he saw it. But most damningly:

NPR reports:

At one point, investigators said that a pair of broken glasses was found inside the attorney general's car and that the glasses could have gotten there only by Boever's face entering through the windshield.

There is a resolution in the state house for impeachment and the governor is calling for his resignation but his office issued a statement on Tuesday saying he had no intention to resign.

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Ashethan posted...

Conservatives can speak all they want. They don't get to expect people to be civil toward them after how they've acted. Maybe your side should've thought about that before you acted all uncivil? We're only treating you the way you want to be treated. After all, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. We can only assume you want to be treated this way.

No one expects that. But neither do they need to vote to confirm someone who's made a name out of insulting people.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

The far, far left's hate boner for Warren (who is only far left I guess) is so bizarre to me but whatever at this point. I'm not re-litigating why Warren is a great for the twentieth time and I'm assuming both sides have already made up their mind regardless.

How is it difficult to understand at all that someone who made a huge deal out of how much of a problem mean tweets by random supporters of Bernie was looks like a clown for handwaving away Neera's twitter activity that she was PERSONALLY doing. In my view, I think the fact that Neera is terminally tweeting in a petty way is the only likable quality she has, but it is absolutely hypocritical for Warren to say mean tweets don't matter after the primary.

fuming posted...

How is it difficult to understand at all that someone who made a huge deal out of how much of a problem mean tweets by random supporters of Bernie was looks like a clown for handwaving away Neera's twitter activity that she was PERSONALLY doing. In my view, I think the fact that Neera is terminally tweeting in a petty way is the only likable quality she has, but it is absolutely hypocritical for Warren to say mean tweets don't matter after the primary.

How is it difficult to understand the difference between making racist and sexist comments, and giving out the HOME phone numbers of two top members of a union is a bit different from calling Mitch "Moscow Mitch" or Voldemort or any such thing?

It's not hypocritical at all. But it's easy to paint it that way when you don't want to look into something further.

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Warren is for everything she should be for and is like, at absolute worst, the fourth or fifth best senator we have. It is dumb (in my opinion of course) to rake her over the coals because you don't like her personality. I actually agree her attacks on Bernie were dumb but I've long since stopped caring (but in full disclosure she was my first choice in the primaries with Bernie as my second) about something so trivial.

My issue isn't that the farthest left on Twitter is attacking her on this, it's that from my experience they attack her more than they do most republicans even though they agree with her on like 99% of actual issues. You can't bring up Warren without dozens of snake meme responses popping up in the mentions, which is absurd.

And I think I've said before I'm totally "whatever" on Tanden and actually do think she is among the worst of Biden's nominees so this isn't even me agreeing with her on Tanden here.

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Dancedreamer posted...

How is it difficult to understand the difference between making racist and sexist comments, and giving out the HOME phone numbers of two top members of a union is a bit different from calling Mitch "Moscow Mitch" or Voldemort or any such thing?

It's not hypocritical at all. But it's easy to paint it that way when you don't want to look into something further.

Again, it isn't about whatever Neera herself did. It is hypocritical because of Neera's fans, some of whom she actually signal boosts and interacts with, and followers being people who absolutely harass and threaten people and say prejudiced things, and Warren said that mattered and needed to be discussed in the primary but now thinks that is something to be handwaved away. I personally think it doesn't matter, and my issues with Neera are purely that her politics are atrocious.

https://twitter.com/kthalps/status/1359362758870003712

Warren is for everything she should be for and is like, at absolute worst, the fourth or fifth best senator we have. It is dumb (in my opinion of course) to rake her over the coals because you don't like her personality. I actually agree her attacks on Bernie were dumb but I've long since stopped caring (but in full disclosure she was my first choice in the primaries with Bernie as my second) about something so trivial.

My issue isn't that the farthest left on Twitter is attacking her on this, it's that from my experience they attack her more than they do most republicans even though they agree with her on like 99% of actual issues. You can't bring up Warren without dozens of snake meme responses popping up in the mentions, which is absurd.

And I think I've said before I'm totally "whatever" on Tanden and actually do think she is among the worst of Biden's nominees so this isn't even me agreeing with her on Tanden here.

I don't think most people on far left twitter really care that she is "among the best senators", most people on far left twitter are significantly to the left of Bernie and criticize him all the time, too. Most people on far left twitter focus on attacking Democrats because they obviously do not have any expectations of good things from Republicans, but feel frustrated with how little they like the party that is the further left party of the two.

Its weird (well not really, its sadly expected) that Warren/Bernie is characterized as Warren being the aggressor.

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fuming posted...

most people on far left twitter are significantly to the left of Bernie and criticize him all the time, too.

lol no they dont.

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I don't know who you consider to be far left twitter, or who you follow from it, but on my feed most people consider Bernie to be a problematic fave and considered him the compromise, not the answer, and in fact if you go deeper many people outright consider him cancelled at this point and not an ally.

neonreaper posted...

Its weird (well not really, its sadly expected) that Warren/Bernie is characterized as Warren being the aggressor.

I would love to hear how Bernie Sanders, who encouraged Warren to run in his stead in 2016 and was completely friendly to her up until her betrayal in 2020 was the aggressor in that particular relationship. If you believe that the split was a result of Bernie saying a woman could not be president, as Warren claimed, then take a look at her very long history of lying, as well as the fact that Bernie LITERALLY TRIED TO GET HER TO RUN INSTEAD OF HIM IN 2016 and she said no. A man who does not believe a woman can win does not try to get a woman to run instead of him.

fuming posted...

I don't know who you consider to be far left twitter, or who you follow from it, but on my feed most people consider Bernie to be a problematic fave and considered him the compromise, not the answer, and in fact if you go deeper many people outright consider him cancelled at this point and not an ally.

You just follow the wrong people then, or the more extreme. And perhaps you don't quite understand how encompassing the far left is.

Far left twitter was crying the other day because it was the anniversary of Bernie doing well in Nevada.

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who should I be following to correctly understand what far left twitter is? As someone who is far left, I would love to know!

I mean, to put it bluntly, if you consider Bernie problematic to that level you are a problem and never going to be happy with anything. You are probably more than a bit delusional as well. So those people shouldn't be taken seriously.

(The same goes for Warren, tbh though obviously this group is much larger because some people got overly infatuated with Bernie Sanders)

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So you just have no idea what far left twitter is and are just saying anyone who is far left is pointless to care about, which is a pretty good indication I was correct that you have no idea about far left twitter.

fuming posted...

who should I be following to correctly understand what far left twitter is? As someone who is far left, I would love to know!

far left twitter is a collective, not these specific crazies?

But you should probably start by unfollowing anyone that thinks the most progressive public voices they have are bordering on cancellation.

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fuming posted...

So you just have no idea what far left twitter is and are just saying anyone who is far left is pointless to care about, which is a pretty good indication I was correct that you have no idea about far left twitter.

And no, I'm saying people that have devolved to pointless extremism and taken up a mantle completely counterproductive to their cause shouldn't be getting follows.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

The far, far left's hate boner for Warren (who is only far left I guess) is so bizarre to me but whatever at this point. I'm not re-litigating why Warren is a great for the twentieth time and I'm assuming both sides have already made up their mind regardless.

I take issue with your framing of the farthest left, when many Neera Tanden defenders use that same label to horseshoe Bernie fans with MAGA chuds.

Anyway, it makes perfect sense that people have a hate boner. Many of us like(d) Warren and saw her as genuinely supporting things we care about, but in the last two primaries she didnt support Bernie, the best hope for those beliefs.

It shouldnt be bizarre that people are mad to discover shes a regular shitty politician!


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red13n posted...

I mean, to put it bluntly, if you consider Bernie problematic to that level you are a problem and never going to be happy with anything. You are probably more than a bit delusional as well. So those people shouldn't be taken seriously.

Neera Tanden shouldnt be taken seriously. Exactly.

Dancedreamer posted...

How is it difficult to understand the difference between making racist and sexist comments, and giving out the HOME phone numbers of two top members of a union is a bit different from calling Mitch "Moscow Mitch" or Voldemort or any such thing?

It's not hypocritical at all. But it's easy to paint it that way when you don't want to look into something further.

What about some random people giving out the phone numbers of two union leaders vs outing an anonymous sexual assault survivor in a public meeting? Is that bad or no?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Anyway, it makes perfect sense that people have a hate boner. Many of us like(d) Warren and saw her as genuinely supporting things we care about, but in the last two primaries she didnt support Bernie, the best hope for those beliefs.

Ehhh, its arguable the best hope for those beliefs was defeating Donald Trump. There's no guarantee Bernie wins, as Biden polled slightly better in battleground states(Particularly those that went blue, not all of them mind you, but MI/WI in particular come to mind).

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Can we just get this Neera Tanden shit over with so we can move on to some other aspect of the internet that has poisoned our brains?

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Good people dont sniff and molest children in public.

Yeah, have the decency to do that shit in private please
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Good people dont sniff and molest children in public.

https://youtu.be/V4PLSPvJ9BY

This is pulled from CSPAN directly.

He lost his firstborn daughter when she was only a little over one year old. As a father myself now I can only imagine how protective and fond he must feel towards girls as seeing them probably reminds him of what his first daughter could have been. A little creepy without context, but tbh I get it.

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fuming posted...

I don't think most people on far left twitter really care that she is "among the best senators", most people on far left twitter are significantly to the left of Bernie and criticize him all the time, too.

I hate to use twitter followers but...

To illustrate how wrong this is. Bernie Sanders -is- far left. Bernie Sanders has 15.1 million followers.

There are unlikely to be 10 million people in the United States left of Bernie Sanders.

Basically, you are choosing to bubble off a section of the far left and say "this is far left twitter", when that simply isn't the case. That is "these people are insane stop giving them attention" twitter.

(And no, being left of Bernie isn't insane, but thinking hes not an ally when you are that far left absolutely is)

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

He lost his firstborn daughter when she was only a little over one year old. As a father myself now I can only imagine how protective and fond he must feel towards girls as seeing them probably reminds him of what his first daughter could have been. A little creepy without context, but tbh I get it.

Its creepy in context too

But I read it as just patriarchal and not sexual
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red13n posted...

There are unlikely to be 10 million people in the United States left of Bernie Sanders.

Citation needed?

Thats less than 1 in 30 of the population, and I dont know about you, but when I talk to Liberal/Progressive people who arent brain-poisoned by political social media, many of them are way further Left than any active politician.

The problem is when they dip their toes into politics and the first people they see are your Neera Tandens and your LordoftheMorons, who go look, Im on your side (theyre not), this is whats realistic, and then they lean away from it.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Thats less than 1 in 30 of the population, and I dont know about you, but when I talk to Liberal/Progressive people who arent brain-poisoned by political social media, many of them are way further Left than any active politician.

25% of that is under 18.

40 percent of the remaining is completely apolitical.

Approaching 50 percent of the remaining is mid to right.

The math isnt there.

That isn't even getting to how bad the math gets when you need them to not just be on the left but also being progressives.

Tony dramatically overestimating the number of people who care enough about politics to have radical opinions. 38% of americans didn't even vote


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https://www.yahoo.com/news/mypillow-guy-complains-loyalty-trump-191430261.html

"I'm not a stupid person."

[Citation needed]

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masterplum posted...

Tony dramatically overestimating the number of people who care enough about politics to have radical opinions. 38% of americans didn't even vote

I'm not sure why he stood up for this one in particular. I'm too tired to do math without mistakes right now but I can tell you that with the numbers we have you aren't getting 10 million people so left of bernie that they want to cancel him, and likely not even close to that left of bernie even.

(Tony himself is arguably right of Bernie even)

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What about some random people giving out the phone numbers of two union leaders vs outing an anonymous sexual assault survivor in a public meeting? Is that bad or no?

One is malicious, the other wasn't. I'm not sure why you're trying to paint it as otherwise.

There's PLENTY to hate Neera Tanden for. For example, wanting to make cuts to Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. Maybe, just maybe, we should be focusing on those.

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masterplum posted...

Tony dramatically overestimating the number of people who care enough about politics to have radical opinions. 38% of americans didn't even vote

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not sure why he stood up for this one in particular. I'm too tired to do math without mistakes right now but I can tell you that with the numbers we have you aren't getting 10 million people so left of bernie that they want to cancel him, and likely not even close to that left of bernie even.

(Tony himself is arguably right of Bernie even)

Neither of you guys read what I said.

Your average person who pays zero attention to politics but casually considers themselves Liberal or Progressive is at worst aligned with with Bernie and at best to the Left of every other active politician.

All of those people support nationalized healthcare. High minimum wage. Free college. Forgiven school loans. Strong unions. Strong environmental controls. High taxes on the rich. Lower military spending. Zero kids in cages.

How many politicians genuinely support those things? Be honest, dont say heh well Kamala and Joe do because they may have paid lip service to it, but now that they have the reigns of power theyre not doing shit, and in Joes case specifically say theyre against many of those things.


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masterplum posted...

Tony dramatically overestimating the number of people who care enough about politics to have radical opinions. 38% of americans didn't even vote

That's kind of a poor yardstick. I'm sure plenty of radicals don't vote since they recognize voting as a pointless endeavor

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DeepsPraw posted...

That's kind of a poor yardstick. I'm sure plenty of radicals don't vote since they recognize voting as a pointless endeavor

Considering what our last president did, anyone that sincerely believes that is an idiot.

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Its also a very dumb statement in general, considering practically every other developed nation in the world has these radical ideas as their current policy.

Talking to apolitical but still empathetic people and youll find the default position is government takes care of its people.

Wow so radical

In lol Bernie would have lower approval news, according to this poll from yesterday, he has a current higher approval than Biden or Harris:

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-champion-stimulus-checks-favorability-rating-higher-biden-harris-poll-1571501

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I can't even tell who's arguing with who anymore.

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Inviso posted...

I can't even tell who's arguing with who anymore.

Same lol

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What a world we live in where "People shouldn't die of easily treated illnesses, companies should pay workers fair wages, and people shouldn't have to go in extreme debt to get an education" is considered 'radical', but putting children in cages is considered 'normal'.

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Dancedreamer posted...

What a world we live in where "People shouldn't die of easily treated illnesses, companies should pay workers fair wages, and people shouldn't have to go in extreme debt to get an education" is considered 'radical', but putting children in cages is considered 'normal'.

That's America for you. Our whole country was founded by people who didn't want to be told what to do and valued independence over any sort of collectivism for the greater good. And we continued that mindset by spending, what, 200 years profiting off the slave labor of peoples who we continuously go out of our way to oppress, as if they should be thankful we freed them from slavery and stop whining about equality. I've had this discussion several times in the past, but America is a highly conservative country, and we will fight against positive change to our dying breath because the majority of people will receive fewer benefits from that change than any number of "others" they see around them. It really sucks.

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The USA is not a highly conservative country, but our system is designed to make you believe that.

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