Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 505: Li'l K Breaking Down The Forbidden Door

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/WONF4W/status/1370546118124245000?s=20

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It seems I was fed a fake article.

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ZeroSignal620 posted...

Curious question. Who would you consider the greatest 1 time world champion ever by WWE standards? The list looks like so...

Buddy Rogers
Ivan Koloff
Pedro Morales
Stan Stasiak
Billy Graham
Iron Sheik
Andre the Giant
Ultimate Warrior
Sgt Slaughter
Diesel
Vince McMahon
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
JBL
Rob Van Dam
King Booker
The Great Khali
Jack Swagger
Dean Ambrose
Finn Balor
Kevin Owens
Jinder Mahal
Kofi Kingston
Braun Strowman
Bobby Lashley

World titles won in other promotions not included here. And the ECW title is not a world belt.

Yeah Billy Graham, and its not even close

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Ending of Smackdown seems like its setting up for a triple threat at WM between Reigns, Edge, and Bryan.

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Fell asleep after watching the Magic game and was woken up by Ring of Honor on my local sports channel (Fox Sports Florida). Man, the production looked super cheap. I didn't realize it was still a thing on TV. Went to their website and it seems equally as cheap (in fairness, the AEW site seems super cheap too)

I guess they are super small now?

ZeroSignal620 posted...

Rob Van Dam
King Booker
The Great Khali

Gotta be one of these three

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Tamina pinned Bianca?

Fucking hell WWE
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I forget Tamina is part of the roster until she randomly shows up every now and then.

Is she the modern day equivalent of JTG?

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There's another huge Covid outbreak in NXT, big enough to change a lot of the planned show this week.

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One match down and uh, Big Show is not great at commentary. Can we get Veda Scott back or something?

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Still watching AEW Dark Elevation but I'll probably just pick and choose what to watch in the future.

Big Show is a little bit better on commentary as time goes on, but he isn't particularly interesting to listen to. I'd rather most anyone else in that role.

Also, if you want to see the failures of WWE Performance Center, look no further than Tay Conti. She has improved in less than a year with AEW more than any home grown Performance Center talent has in like 5 years. I know she was against Ashley Vox, who is great, but Conti always looks great every time she goes out there. I don't get how WWE's Performance Center is just so absolutely inefficient.

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Fastlane is advertising Randy Orton vs. Alexa Bliss.

I have several questions.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

One match down and uh, Big Show is not great at commentary. Can we get Veda Scott back or something?

he was trying extremely hard though. like i've never heard anybody try so hard at commentary. but it made it all come off a little forced I think, especially a show like Elevation you kinda like the announcers being a little more relaxed than he was

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I don't get how WWE's Performance Center is just so absolutely inefficient.

It's obvious to me. It teaches "WWE Style" which is really limited and more importantly doesn't play to the strengths of the wrestler

It's like if you sent a bunch of aspiring chefs to a school that exclusively teaches making pastries and actively discourages anyone from preparing any sort of meal that isn't exclusively centered on pastries. You'd produce a lot of mediocre pastry chefs, some passable ones, and you'd lose a lot of great cooks in the process because they wouldn't be exposed to things they actually excel at or a ton of other peripheral culinary skills that'd help them make good pastries.

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The analogy I often see used is like NFL coaches demanding players fit into their schemes no matter their strengths and weaknesses, instead of building schemes around their strengths

You wouldnt put Lamar Jackson in the same offense Drew Brees used, but WWE tries to make Ricochet wrestle like Elias
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I think the NFL coach analogy gives the performance center way too much credit. Any playbook that narrow wouldn't make it past High School coaching level <_<

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Performance Center is training sports entertainers, everywhere else is training wrestlers.

Again, Vince has been telling you for years that WWE isn't a wrestling company - just believe him. He's telling the truth.

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Like you wouldn't put Lamar Jackson in that offense because the WWE Performance center literally doesn't run any plays that aren't short 4-5 yard passes.

No long bombs from the QB. No rushing plays whatsoever, from the QB or otherwise.

Just move those chains in the way that is safest and least likely to injure anyone or cause a turnover.

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Steiner posted...

he was trying extremely hard though. like i've never heard anybody try so hard at commentary. but it made it all come off a little forced I think, especially a show like Elevation you kinda like the announcers being a little more relaxed than he was

See I thought he was entirely too relaxed. I would have liked him to have some excitement. He was just so lackadaisical about it all. Not that he was bored, but he just didn't have any energy. Tony would be yelling about a nearfall and then Big Show would just casually discuss the move. Like yeah, he was trying really hard, but I'd rather him be into the matches, especially on the show where we're supposed to be bringing a spotlight on this talent.

And concerning the Performance Center style, yeah. That's all probably why it feels so inefficient. From what I understand, they actively try to force people (like Conti actually) from trying anything unique. Which is weird because they let all of the successful indy guys do whatever the hell they want if they're at a certain level.

Like Albert is in charge and that dude actually understands what you need to do to stand out. He had a successful run in Japan before this. SDR was successful around the world and knows what you need to do to be successful. And Norman Smiley was huge in Mexico before WCW. It's just weird all of these people who know to be successful you need to do more than the static WWE style, but here we are.

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It's probably like a lot of corporate structures. I can even liken it to my own workplace. I've worked here 16 years, my boss (who is the VP) has been here 13 and a good friend who is in a senior position 15 years. Between the 3 of us we know exactly how Operations should be run. However the directive from above is to run it in a way that we don't agree with and isn't maximizing performance. We have spoken out and made suggestions countless times but eventually you are labelled as difficult and told to get on board or get off.

Ultimately unless you are willing to walk away you just begrudgingly go along with the shitty structure you disagree with and collect a paycheck.

Believe me, I can 100% see why those dudes who know better go along with it. That's my job every single day.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like Albert is in charge and that dude actually understands what you need to do to stand out. He had a successful run in Japan before this. SDR was successful around the world and knows what you need to do to be successful. And Norman Smiley was huge in Mexico before WCW. It's just weird all of these people who know to be successful you need to do more than the static WWE style, but here we are.

This might be a chicken and egg argument, but if their job is to prepare them for the taste of the guy that runs the main roster, maybe theyre doing their job right
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Maki Itoh is heading back to Japan.

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Judging by her reception, I'm sure they're going to try to do whatever they can to bring her into AEW full-time.

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Also, I think it's less the PC failing Conti and more NXTs women's division is ridiculously stacked and she was stuck as an enhancement talent in 3-4 minute matches

Now the men's side of the PC, that is hot garbage unless you're an established indie guy.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Maki Itoh is heading back to Japan.

https://twitter.com/EvilUno/status/1371505326038646787?s=20

And her match against Riho was quite good actually, so I think with some more polish she's going to do just fine. The match was actually brought down a little from Riho no selling all the body work throughout the match.

Also the mic shots were so bad because it was still live and broadcasting to her headset (so she could hear herself singing), so after the first one she didn't want to make herself deaf. Should have just ripped the thing off though instead of... whatever it was she did.

Also also her entrance song is dark for how poppy it is:
https://twitter.com/ItohRespectArmy/status/1371240487051493380?s=20

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DREW MAC was dropping f-bombs on RAW Talk.

Sheamus just making him so gosh darn mad!

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Maki can stay in Japan.

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FFDragon posted...

Also also her entrance song is dark for how poppy it is:
https://twitter.com/ItohRespectArmy/status/1371240487051493380?s=20

Everybody wants to be Poppy like m-e(o Shirai)

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john cena sings his theme song and eddv falls in love. maki sings her theme song and he wants her gone

how peculiar

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Hey I love Max Caster too.

Its almost ALMOST like theres some other difference. Like that Maki is a fucking horrendous - like All Red Everything Eva Marie levels - bell to bell performer.

Nah couldnt be.

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Okay, let's not go crazy here. Maki Itoh is a million times better than Eva Marie ever was. She put on a hell of a match with Riho last night.

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HashtagSEP posted...

john cena sings his theme song and eddv falls in love. maki sings her theme song and he wants her gone

how peculiar

john cenaaaaaaa suuuuuuuuucks
john cenaaaaaaa suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Okay, let's not go crazy here. Maki Itoh is a million times better than Eva Marie ever was. She put on a hell of a match with Riho last night.

In that it felt like I was IN hell watching it, sure.

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https://38.media.tumblr.com/d45a566972caf0facf1c069398f3afe7/tumblr_n9jj8cx0gC1t0ik4co1_400.gif

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That was a low tier retort Eddv. Please just say you disagree next time.

I thought it was a great match though, and much better than any of Eva Marie's efforts. Maybe just accept people have different tastes? I'll take a great character with pretty good ring skills over most anything else.

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Eddv posted...

Hey I love Max Caster too.

Its almost ALMOST like theres some other difference. Like that Maki is a fucking horrendous - like All Red Everything Eva Marie levels - bell to bell performer.

Nah couldnt be.

Yikes lol

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And yet you hated on Big E.

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You would too if you watched him in FCW.

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Well I dont think she has a good character, great ring charisma or even passable ring work so yeah I guess were at a point where a conversation about this person is impossible.

I get that she gives good twitter and that that's really important to you for some reason.

I prefer pro wrestlers who are good on television rather than on twitter, call me old fashioned.

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Eddv posted...

Well I dont think she has a good character, great ring charisma or even passable ring work so yeah I guess were at a point where a conversation about this person is impossible.

I get that she gives good twitter and that that's really important to you for some reason.

I prefer pro wrestlers who are good on television rather than on twitter, call me old fashioned.

I disagree that she's bad on TV.

What now?

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I didn't stick around for her Dark match but Itoh's appearances on Dynamite and the tournament were horrendous. I like her gimmick enough but that's not enough for me when her ring work is so sub-par.

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The match was... okay? If that's a good match from her, then kinda yikes

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I congratulate you for being a simp then biscuit.

But I think you're wrong. To the point where we cant even talk about her because you apparently arent watching the same wrestler I am.

I cannot even imagine holding the opinion that her match with Riho was anything but insultingly bad and boring to boot. Nothing they did had any impact, Maki was constantly out of position and being covered for by Riho who worked her ass off to keep it from completely falling apart. Her character work is accidentally playing the idol gimmick straight. Not entirely her fault, Tony and Big Show are also playing it straight. Other than throwing the middle finger once per match nothing about her character comes through on tv.

Shes trying to play to the crowd for cheap pops, which is fine except she's "working heel" so actually shes doing...nothing. I put "working heel" in scare quotes because none of her strikes have any impact to them and even working with tiny little Riho she didnt manage to come across as threatening or menacing at any point.

She sucks. She is not good at anything. I've seen her in 4 matches now so this isn't just one match where she was off. The headbutt thing is cute the first time you see it. That's all she has going for her though.


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I don't understand thinking the match with Riho was anywhere that bad. I thought it was a good match. She had a lot of character work and was being a bratty idol character throughout. Her selling is really good, she showed good ring psychology. Her gimmick isn't to be menacing. It's to be deceptively cute. Which she does a fine job of. And "tiny Riho", she's smaller than Riho, and her strikes were fine. Her submissions were mostly solid. She nailed her spots, which a few of them were unique. I don't see where it was boring at all.

Like I'm not even arguing she's amazing in the ring, but to compare her to Eva Marie is outrageous and you know that's an unfair comparison.

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eva had that one good match in nxt!

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Man I kinda wanna see her wrestle. I should go check out AEW Dark this week.

I feel like she can't be that bad. I mean Eva Marie? Reall--

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

And "tiny Riho", she's smaller than Riho, and her strikes were fine.

*doubt*

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She got into a striking battle with Riho and the strikes were fine! Nothing to write home about, just fine. Her submissions looked great for the most part.

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I can't imagine strikes from anyone who is smaller than Riho being anything resembling fine.

Just because you can throw a strike that doesn't look clumsy doesn't mean you should-- at some point the stature gets puny enough that they're literally impossible to believe as credible offense. It's exactly why AJ Lee was a wretched wrestler rather than a passable one.

But again, can't actually pass judgment haven't watched yet. Just morbidly interested now.

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The liontamer was great, but that's partially because Riho has no bones.

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I can't comment fully on Itoh because, despite joshi being the bulk of modern wrestling I consume these days, I've never seen one of her matches.

But those microphone strikes from the other day that were posted here... I'd be embarrassed to have put that on TV if I was AEW. Your stuff has to look better than that for me to call you a good TV performer. Maybe you can get away with it when you're wrestling Session Moth Martina on some EVE show or in TJPW in front of a couple hundred people, but not on TNT where you've got nearly seven figures worth of American eyeballs watching.

I don't need everyone to be Kevin Von Erich out there stiffing people into another dimension, but if the little I have seen of Itoh is indicative of her overall work, I'd agree it's not good enough.

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