Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 349: Rudy Can't Fail

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

The US already had billions of vaccines locked up. Second most per person other than Canada. Dumb headline

Of vaccines currently shown to be successful?

As far as I can tell, the US has a contract for 100 million doses of Moderna's vaccine and 100 million doses of Pfizer's. They have an option to buy up to 500 million more of Pfizers, but per this story that's not gonna happen until June because of this decision by Trump. (And remember that each person needs two doses).

Then we apparently also have a contract for 300 million for Astrazeneca's vaccine, but that's non-negligibly less effective (and also requires two doses... or I guess 1.5 if they get enough testing on the seemingly more effective dosing regimen).

There are contracts with other companies, but those vaccines have not been shown to be effective yet (and even if they are, the deployment of other vaccines will significantly complicate those trials, since you're now making the control group forgo an effective vaccine and are slowing down the accumulation of data as vaccines are deployed).

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200 million doses is 100 million vaccinated. That's a significant amount, and I have no doubt we have more stock coming from Moderna as well.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Of vaccines currently shown to be successful?

As far as I can tell, the US has a contract for 100 million doses of Moderna's vaccine and 100 million doses of Pfizer's. They have an option to buy up to 500 million more of Pfizers, but per this story that's not gonna happen until June because of this decision by Trump. (And remember that each person needs two doses).

Then we apparently also have a contract for 300 million for Astrazeneca's vaccine, but that's non-negligibly less effective (and also requires two doses... or I guess 1.5 if they get enough testing on the seemingly more effective dosing regimen).

There are contracts with other companies, but those vaccines have not been shown to be effective yet (and even if they are, the deployment of other vaccines will significantly complicate those trials, since you're now making the control group forgo an effective vaccine and are slowing down the accumulation of data as vaccines are deployed).

This summer when the offer was made we didn't know it would be successful.

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100 million outta Pfizer is more than you'd have by June anyway. it's definitely one of those headlines trying to make drama when there doesn't need to be any.


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masterplum posted...

This summer when the offer was made we didn't know it would be successful.

It cost the government like 20 bucks per dose. The risk of wasting a few billion dollars is completely negligible compared to the benefit of having more of an effective vaccine sooner.

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All signs still point to us still having plenty of vaccine to put a big dent in this pandemic.

No need to panic.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

It cost the government like 20 bucks per dose. The risk of wasting a few billion dollars is completely negligible compared to the benefit of having more of an effective vaccine sooner.

But if you let it be known that you will pay $$$ for any unproven vaccine regardless of whether it works, hundreds of companies, most of them with no workable plans at all, will be lining up to sell you their product.

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red13n posted...

All signs still point to us still having plenty of vaccine to put a big dent in this pandemic.

No need to panic.

Well eventually get the vaccines we need, but this decision will slow it down.

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red sox 777 posted...

But if you let it be known that you will pay $$$ for any unproven vaccine regardless of whether it works, hundreds of companies, most of them with no workable plans at all, will be lining up to sell you their product.

The Trump admin presumably did some type of vetting when they were handing out Warp Speed money. What Im suggesting is that they should have committed to buying enough doses to vaccinate the population for each vaccine instead of like 15-30% as many doses. That would not have fundamentally changed the incentives (and yeah, the money on some of the vaccines would have been wasted), but youd guarantee that if at least one was successful youd be able to vaccinate the population (and that if multiple were successful you could do so at maximum speed). If at the end of the day the government had excess vaccine contracts, it would not be hard to sell to other countries.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

It cost the government like 20 bucks per dose. The risk of wasting a few billion dollars is completely negligible compared to the benefit of having more of an effective vaccine sooner.

except it screws over poorer countries to hog all of it and drives the price up

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/03/942303736/how-rich-countries-are-hoarding-the-worlds-vaccines-in-charts

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But America First, remember?

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This is an area where I don't think it's particularly in our interest to try to become a monopoly on world supply. If we do that, next time some important thing is developed somewhere else, they might not share with us, or may demand exorbitant prices.

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Vaccine rollout is probably the one thing you can say the Trump administration likely didn't fuck up much. There were tons of vaccine candidates and there was definitely some hedging of bets in various directions.

Likely would have been impossible without knowledge of the future to know which vaccine to go all in on.

Keep in mind back in the summer as the article states we would have had basically 0 data on the efficacy of these vaccines. Everything would have been primarily looking at safety at that point.

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Rebekah Jones, the whistleblower who was fired for revealing that Rick DeSantis wanted her to report false Covid numbers in Florida to justify him reopening earlier this year, and who has been reporting actual numbers on a regular basis since, has had her home raided on DeSantis' orders.

https://twitter.com/GeoRebekah/status/1336065787900145665?s=19

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Well thats pretty damn disgusting
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They definitely were not prepared for their entry to be recorded on video.

I imagine there were no active body cams on their end, but we'll see.

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/politics/biden-picks-lloyd-austin-as-secretary-of-defense/index.html

Im sure Austin is well-qualified, but Im not super thrilled about another exception to civilian control of DoD

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https://twitter.com/kannoyoungs/status/1336126950742568960?s=21

lmao

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Just watched some of Trump's "stop the steal" or whatever rally in Georgia this weekend and...

Trump's people holding "Save America" signs in the crowd, during the middle of the biggest pandemic the world has ever experienced, while supporting a con man they believe won but who in reality is trying to destroy democracy just to hold on to power is peak Idiocracy

I couldn't help but think of all the good that Trump could have done with that cult behind him if only he wasn't a morally bankrupt piece of human garbage. I mean, his followers could be the most traditionally conservative people in the world, spoonfed right-wing talking points that medicare BAD (because reasons) and low minimum wage laws GOOD (because they "hurt businesses" despite the fact that they positively impact economies). We could take all that bullshit they've been fed and throw it out the window, because if daddy Trump said it he could get Medicare for All so fast in this country it would make your head spin.

Shame he chose to be a complete piece of shit and a fascist instead.

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StartTheMachine posted...

Just watched some of Trump's "stop the steal" or whatever rally in Georgia this weekend and...

Trump's people holding "Save America" signs in the crowd, during the middle of the biggest pandemic the world has ever experienced, while supporting a con man they believe won but who in reality is trying to destroy democracy just to hold on to power is peak Idiocracy

I couldn't help but think of all the good that Trump could have done with that cult behind him if only he wasn't a morally bankrupt piece of human garbage. I mean, his followers could be the most traditionally conservative people in the world, spoonfed right-wing talking points that medicare BAD (because reasons) and low minimum wage laws GOOD (because they "hurt businesses" despite the fact that they positively impact economies). We could take all that bullshit they've been fed and throw it out the window, because if daddy Trump said it he could get Medicare for All so fast in this country it would make your head spin.

Shame he chose to be a complete piece of shit and a fascist instead.

Trump isn't really one for bold new ideas. His style is to make only small changes to actual operations when running something while devoting a lot of attention to making sure he's getting a good bargain in deals. And he has a very robust system of deflecting blame and taking credit.

On a different note, there is talk about Biden forgiving 50k of student loans per student. I don't really care if he does it or not, as long as he makes darn sure the amount forgiven isn't taxable income for students. Because shelling out ~17k for taxes out of pocket on "income" I am not really receiving would be a financial burden right now.

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red sox 777 posted...

Trump isn't really one for bold new ideas. His style is to make only small changes to actual operations when running something while devoting a lot of attention to making sure he's getting a good bargain in deals. And he has a very robust system of deflecting blame and taking credit.

On a different note, there is talk about Biden forgiving 50k of student loans per student. I don't really care if he does it or not, as long as he makes darn sure the amount forgiven isn't taxable income for students. Because shelling out ~17k for taxes out of pocket on "income" I am not really receiving would be a financial burden right now.

Then don't take it and pay the 50k + interest. The tax burden would be smoothed obviously.

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https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/1336185998129115137?s=21

Disgusting

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Corrik7 posted...

Then don't take it and pay the 50k + interest. The tax burden would be smoothed obviously.

I doubt that one will have the option to refuse.

HeroicCrono posted...

I doubt that one will have the option to refuse.

Would be unconstitutional then.

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If Trump's forgiven loan doesnt count as income why would student loans?

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Maniac64 posted...

If Trump's forgiven loan doesnt count as income why would student loans?

What loan are you referring to?

Google trump loan forgiven. The links are to long to post and I'm not going to waste time on shortening something that was all over the news.

Though it sounds like it is usually taxable so they would need to build an exception into whatever method is used to forgive the debt.

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Maniac64 posted...

Google trump loan forgiven. The links are to long to post and I'm not going to waste time on shortening something that was all over the news.

Though it sounds like it is usually taxable so they would need to build an exception into whatever method is used to forgive the debt.

Just smooth the tax burden like they are doing for 401k withdrawals right now.

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Maniac64 posted...

Google trump loan forgiven. The links are to long to post and I'm not going to waste time on shortening something that was all over the news.

Though it sounds like it is usually taxable so they would need to build an exception into whatever method is used to forgive the debt.

Ah, it looks like that is taxable for Trump, he just had enough in business losses to cover it. I don't lol.

For the PPP loans, Congress wrote into the law that forgiveness of those is not taxable. But I don't think Biden has the power to do that without Congress. Forgiving student loans in which the federal government is the creditor is one thing, changing tax law is another....

https://www.wavy.com/news/virginia/richmond/northam-signs-breonnas-law-making-virginia-3rd-state-to-ban-no-knock-search-warrants/

Governor Northam signs law making Virginia the third state to ban no-knock search-warrants, the first since Breonna Taylor's death. You'd expect this to be Kentucky, but Kentucky's going to Kentucky. Good for VA!

red sox 777 posted...

Trump isn't really one for bold new ideas. His style is to make only small changes to actual operations when running something while devoting a lot of attention to making sure he's getting a good bargain in deals. And he has a very robust system of deflecting blame and taking credit.

A large portion of Trump's 2016 campaign was pretending to be a bold populist: setting term limits for Senators, saying things like everyone would get healthcare, ending the wars, draining the swamp. Of course it was all bullshit, but he pretended to be to the left of Clinton on some key issues like this. I guess to be fair he did argue against minimum wage. That's a pretty far right idea!

2020 he just campaigned on how the Dems want a communist takeover of America or whatever nonsense like a typical Republican, but being a fake populist is likely what got him elected in these swing states where policies such as NAFTA helped decimate the middle class.

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https://twitter.com/KnowN0thing1/status/1336383050192728066?s=19

"woops"

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So Texass AG, in what I can only assume is an attempt to get Trump to pardon him, is now suing PA/GA/MI/WI over their elections (as should go without saying, he obviously lacks standing to do so, and his arguments are a dumpster fire):

https://twitter.com/akivamcohen/status/1336322024537374720?s=21

In a particular argument designed to give me an aneurism (basically an even dumber version of the exit polls proved the Dem primary was rigged bullshit from 2016) Paxton claims that there was a less than one in a quadrillion chance that Biden won in Wisconsin given Trumps lead in the count before the Massive Dump (which could only be true if ballots were being counted in a totally random order rather than by location/vote method)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

So Texass AG, in what I can only assume is an attempt to get Trump to pardon him, is now suing PA/GA/MI/WI over their elections (as should go without saying, he obviously lacks standing to do so, and his arguments are a dumpster fire):

https://twitter.com/akivamcohen/status/1336322024537374720?s=21

In a particular argument designed to give me an aneurism (basically an even dumber version of the exit polls proved the Dem primary was rigged bullshit from 2016) Paxton claims that there was a less than one in a quadrillion chance that Biden won in Wisconsin given Trumps lead in the count before the Massive Dump (which could only be true if ballots were being counted in a totally random order rather than by location/vote method)

The point is that if a state sues another state, the case originates with the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has to hear it. They don't have to hear appeals from lower courts, but they have to hear this one.

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Probably some asinine last ditch hail mary to have certifications overturned because today is the safe harbor deadline.

but yeah could also be pardon fishing too

SCOTUS won't even bother hearing it I imagine. They've done that on occasion. Nebraska and Oklahoma tried to sue Colorado on its marijuana laws back in 2016 and SCOTUS declined to hear that as well.

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A one-in-quadrillion chance you say?

AHAHA.WAV

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Mega Mana posted...

A one-in-quadrillion chance you say?

new biden campaign theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6LFOIofRE

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https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/die-for-something-arizona-gop-incites-violence-11518730

Jesus christ.

Arizona GOP was banned from Twitter over this, BTW.

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https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/mcconnell-calls-for-covid-19-aid-bill-excluding-liability-shield-state-aid-11607457672

Weird how he continues to run circles around his dem counterparts

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https://twitter.com/lawrencehurley/status/1336425860065341442?s=21

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/lawrencehurley/status/1336425860065341442?s=21

Yup, that's why that Texas case is needed. The Supreme Court has no choice but to hear it. Although, it will probably be 9-0 that Texas lacks standing......

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The Texas case isn't needed. Trump should accept that he lost a free and fair election, but his fragile ego won't allow that.

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It never fucking ends.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-black-ohio-man-shot-sheriff-s-deputy-demand-investigation-n1250212

Abolish the police.

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red sox 777 posted...

Yup, that's why that Texas case is needed. The Supreme Court has no choice but to hear it. Although, it will probably be 9-0 that Texas lacks standing......

multiple other states have joined in on it.
still may be the same conclusion there mind you but they're pushing it.

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After a 9-0 loss with no hearing and no written statement from a single judge, I severely doubt they will actually bother hearing this.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

After a 9-0 loss with no hearing and no written statement from a single judge, I severely doubt they will actually bother hearing this.

That's an appeal. The Supreme Court has no obligation to hear that. They reject something like 99% of cases that are sent to them.

This Texas case is not an appeal. It is a suit by a state against another state, and that means the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction. They have to hear it (as long as it takes to dismiss for lack of standing at least).

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depends on the specifics of both cases.
right now it's...

Texas, joined by Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, South Carolina, and South Dakota.
so 8 states and growing.
will we see double digits?

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All the red states everywhere in the world can try to sue, its still not gonna do anything and should not do anything.
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it'll get a response out of the supreme court, which is what they want.
of course, the court knows this and will figure out how to make extremely tailored decisions.


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https://twitter.com/jstein_wapo/status/1336478192916459522?s=21

Not even pretending they want to pass something

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