Poll of the Day > So why do people hate transgendered people?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't think it's so much hating the person, but rather how we're supposed to completely ignore the biology of a person when it comes to their participation in certain events. For instance, males have better athleticism than females. And it wouldn't be fair if someone who's biologically male participates alongside females.

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Firewerx posted...

So, if my opinion was that you couldn't have your gender altered on your birth certificate (I'll admit, I don't know if that's a thing) and that was the only sticking point, it means I'm saying that you should be denied all rights to the legal status of your chosen gender? That you should not be allowed reassignment surgery? That you and people like you should not even be allowed to live?

Too fucking right it's insane. This surreal spiral into "daring to contradict me is the moral equivalent of emptying a can of Zyklon B into a gas chamber" craziness is either profoundly unsettling or laughably absurd; I'm not sure which.

You say "I disagree with them" well what does that mean? In a thread about "hate on transgenders" you make a generic statement

Firewerx posted...

Unfortunately, as in any highly emotive and controversial topic, the distinction between "hatred" and "disagreement" gets chucked out the window at the very outset.

The only relevant "disagreement" here is you disagree with them identifying as the other gender. Which is a disagreement with who they are. If you meant something else you are at fault for not specifying what you meant, I can only base my statements on what you say I can't read your mind.

BlackScythe0 posted...

The only relevant "disagreement" here is you disagree with them identifying as the other gender. Which is a disagreement with who they are. If you meant something else you are at fault for not specifying what you meant, I can only base my statements on what you say I can't read your mind.

to be fair, I've always been an asshole. I'm the first person to tell you I'm an asshole. I'd rather you hear it from me first.

and yet, every time I'm an asshole, 16 years later, there's a clique here that feels the need to *shocked pikachuface* "OMG that guy's an asshole!". "HEY EVERYONE THAT GUY IS AN ASSHOLE!!!SHIFT+1" "why is that guy such an asshole?" "OMG, can't that guy not be an asshole?"

I identify as an asshole.

see the comparison yet?

its kinda like the parable of the scorpion and the turtle.

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LuciferSage posted...

to be fair, I've always been an asshole. I'm the first person to tell you I'm an asshole. I'd rather you hear it from me first.

and yet, every time I'm an asshole, 16 years later, there's a clique here that feels the need to *shocked pikachuface* "OMG that guy's an asshole!". "HEY EVERYONE THAT GUY IS AN ASSHOLE!!!SHIFT+1"

see the comparison yet?

I'm not following.

I don't hate them. That being said, for me to date/hook-up someone who is transgendered, I'd have to be attracted to them, they can't have a vagina, and be willing to be the bottom like pretty much always... And I'd also prefer if they identified as male. But that's not really important. Though, I'll still consider myself gay...
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LinkPizza posted...

I don't hate them. That being said, for me to date/hook-up someone who is transgendered, I'd have to be attracted to them, they can't have a vagina, and be willing to be the bottom like pretty much always...

I'm not attracted to transgenders either, it isn't because I "disagree" with them.

BlackScythe0 posted...

transgenders

lmao. real 'I dont mind the blacks, honestly' energy

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Ive had it up to here with every group

all the races, the cis people, the lgbt people, even the disabled

had it up to here

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OniRonin posted...

lmao. real 'I dont mind the blacks, honestly' energy

*shrug*

There's not just one reason why trans people get so much shit, tbh, and some of the reasons behind it are actually pretty complicated in ways most people aren't really aware of. The most obvious reasons are fairly straightforward; it's usually some combination of homophobia, misogyny, insecurity about one's own sexuality/identity, and/or ignorance/misinformation often instilled in someone from a trusted religious/political figure.

A slightly more complex contributing factor is that a lot of people have these ideas of how a person *must* be to be "successful," and if they aren't living in accordance with said standard, they are regarded as a "failure" and held in disdain by default. To people who fixate on such a thing, seeing someone not only not even attempt to live in accordance with that standard but be perfectly content not to is an outright affront, and to the more extreme, they view people actively not living up to said standard to be a threat (not to civilization as they'll often claim, but to their own rigid world view); if someone isn't living up to that standard and they *aren't* miserable and failing, it challenges them. Incidentally, this is often the underlying motive behind people openly encouraging the harassment of trans people.

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LuciferSage posted...

I'll discuss an issue like an adult. Not stomp my feet, and block people I disagree with before storming off to call the cavalry.

I missed this but you're not wrong man. I may not agree with some folk here but I certainly can discuss things as a adult.

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TheWitchMorgana posted...

the concept of gender as an innate, immutable construct challenges a lot of people's worldviews

True.

VideoboysaysCube posted...

I don't think it's so much hating the person, but rather how we're supposed to completely ignore the biology of a person when it comes to their participation in certain events. For instance, males have better athleticism than females. And it wouldn't be fair if someone who's biologically male participates alongside females.

But what you and others who think like you don't understand is that the standard upon which competitive classifications are based is a one-size-fits-all concept when it shouldn't be, because not all men or women have the same hormone levels, you can find women who are still genetically female who have higher testosterone levels than a given person who happens to be genetically male. And where do you class intersex people who've been raised in one particular gender all their life and didn't even know they were intersex for most of that time, like Caster Semenya?

A simple biological fact is that black African XX women have more testosterone than white European XX women, naturally so, yet it tends to be the hormone levels of the latter that are chosen as the guideline. Which is both racist and unfair.

And that problem even affects people who aren't trans. People like Semenya, whose entire gender identity was called into question all in a minute purely because her hormone levels weren't what the IOA judged they should be. Cis women who are menopausal, too. So why are you effectively saying that they should be reclassified to compete as men if they're not and never have been male at all?

P. S. @BlackScythe0 trans people are "transgender people". Not "transgenders". Would you like it if somebody called you "a cisgender" instead of a cisgender *person*? It's dehumanising.

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Trialia posted...

Would you like it if somebody called you "a cisgender" instead of a cisgender *person*?

While I know what you're saying and used the word "transgendered" in my own post, I just wanted to say that I personally would really care if someone called me "a cisgender", tbh... Maybe it's different for different people, and different for transgendered people and the word "trans"...
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Why do people hate anything. Its different. They dont understand them and how they can feel that way religious bigotry. Some mix of all the above. That's usually the sources of hate for a lot of things.

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Trialia posted...

Would you like it if somebody called you "a cisgender" instead of a cisgender *person*? It's dehumanising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdo93X6-ek
I certainly wouldn't get hot and bothered about a certain word that is just describing my gender. It seems most the time it bothers some folk way too much when it really shouldn't. It's almost like they want to be offended and they will never be happy no matter if someone uses the "correct" terms.

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VioletMassacre posted...

I don't hate transgenders, I just don't understand it. I also find the term "cis" really weird, or at least how common it is.

"Cis" is just the opposite of "trans" in Latin. That's literally all it is. "Same" as opposed to "other". I don't see what's so weird about saying someone's gender matches whichever one they were labelled at birth.

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What I find interesting is the odd coexistence of the 'gender is a social construct - biological sex is the only difference' and 'my biological sex is male/female but I "feel" female/male'.

I suspect (no sources) that there are people who extoll both views depending on which hot topic they are talking about.

Whats up with that?

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VioletMassacre posted...

I don't hate transgenders, I just don't understand it. I also find the term "cis" really weird, or at least how common it is.

No stranger than calling someone "straight."

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Trialia posted...

"Cis" is just the opposite of "trans" in Latin. That's literally all it is. "Same" as opposed to "other". I don't see what's so weird about saying someone's gender matches whichever one they were labelled at birth.

so others have to call you want you want, but if someone just wants to be called male, and not any cis crap, it's too bad?

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I have no problem with anyone and in fact I can't imagine what it's like to be part of a group in America that isn't accepted in the mainstream and that would include non Whites, transgender people, gay or lesbian people etc etc because all of these groups catch hell in America sadly.

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VioletMassacre posted...

Because it, usually, should be fairly obvious if youre male or female. Being trans isnt that common.

Being straight or not isnt something you can see on someone though, so thats different. Being gay is also far more common than being trans.

Far more common than you think, if you include intersex, agender, non-binary and genderqueer people all under the same umbrella. I'm both queer and genderqueer, for one, and I know I'm not the only LGBTQ or non-binary person on the boards.

And no, gender is not "something you can see on someone". Neither is sex. They shouldn't be expected to be. This silly concept of yours is how so many butch lesbians, or men with long hair, have ended up being frequently misgendered in their lives. Neither sex nor gender do or should determine someone's appearance completely. Fat men sometimes have breasts, thin women sometimes don't, men can have long hair and women can have their heads shaved, and there's a whole spectrum between and beyond that binary in addition to it.

Just because you're narrow-minded, doesn't mean your opinions should define society, and you don't get to tell other people who or what they are. That's not acceptable behaviour.

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Its sites like gfaqs that create the hatred. Its the absolutist attitude of censoring facts and the nasty behavior of the intolerant left that creates the ire. Its easier to dispise the whole rather than pick out the good.

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Wow this topic turned into an absolute shithole

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Hey cishets... would you rather slam the chick with a dick or the man with the clam?

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Gaawa_chan posted...

the simplest way to figure out how someone ought to be classified socially in our minds is to just fucking ask them.

Sure. The problem is you can't ask an infant. And in many cases, you can't always ask the child, as they may not even understand what you're asking. Some will, but many probably won't. So until they actually know, they usually have to live as whatever they were giving at birth until they can.

Gaawa_chan posted...

The main sticking point that people seem to settle on these days is "chromosomes" but no one fucking uses that to determine sex/gender, lol.

Not at birth, no. But that's because I figure that would take time. I believe they have used it scientifically, though...

Trialia posted...

Far more common than you think, if you include intersex, agender, non-binary and genderqueer people all under the same umbrella.

But the T is for Transgender, right? So, would the other actually fall under Q, since T actually has it's own letter? Though, in some cases, they all have their own letter...

BarneyBosco posted...

the nasty behavior of the intolerant left that creates the ire. Its easier to dispise the whole rather than pick out the good.

Why are we bringing in more politics? And why do you think it's the left?

Lokarin posted...

Hey cishets... would you rather slam the chick with a dick or the man with the clam?

Most likely neither. Females don't normally sexually attract me, and neither do vaginas...
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VioletMassacre posted...

But Im still male and have never thought otherwise. Thats part of the reason why its so hard for me to understand thinking youre the opposite gender.

I remember one person asking me about this a while back. Because I'm gay an like guys. And wondered if I wanted to be chick. Which I didn't. But it was kind of weird. Just wanted to say that...
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Trialia posted...

Neither is sex.

You can tell the sex of someone when they are born.


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wwinterj25 posted...

I've NEVER heard anyone call someone cis or ask me if I'm cis in real life so I disagree.

I've never even heard of the word "cis" until this topic.

thedeerzord posted...

I've never even heard of the word "cis" until this topic.

I've heard of it but I learn new words everyday.

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VioletMassacre posted...

Thats part of the reason why its so hard for me to understand thinking youre the opposite gender.

don't really have to understand it, just have to respect it

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And my point was proven to hold true.

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I haven't even made a point yet and I'm already absolutely correct.

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Religion and fear.

What someone else does with their own body shouldn't matter to the next person.

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drew39k posted...

Religion and fear.

What someone else does with their own body shouldn't matter to the next person.

they can, but they shouldn't force people to indulge them.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

they can, but they shouldn't force people to indulge them.

They can't though. They can try and guilt trip or scream till they are blue in thr face but you are weak if you allow such things to control you. As long as we tolerate and accept them that is enough.

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VioletMassacre posted...

Being straight or not isnt something you can see on someone though, so thats different. Being gay is also far more common than being trans.

1. There is no way in hell you would think that Blaire White and Buck Angel were trans just by looking them, and I can think of multiple people I have met who were so androgynous I had no idea what pronouns to use, and this isn't even talking about intersex people. It's well-known that bigotry towards trans people has resulted in cis people abusing and insulting OTHER CIS PEOPLE for this very reason.
2. ... How common a word is has no bearing on the validity of said word. Nobody takes issue with rarer terminology than the word "cis." And if you're whining that you've never heard it before... who tf cares? Words are coined all the time, and "cis" is older than many other terms you have probably accepted with little to no question, including "crowdsourcing," "app," "simp," and so on, and more common than many, MANY other words that you take no issue whatsoever with. I don't see swathes of people clutching their pearls over the word "badinage." Edit: And come to think of it, isn't this argument in FAVOR of the term "cis" but against the word "trans," as being cis is more common than being straight, being gay, and being trans? >_>

wwinterj25 posted...

I've NEVER heard anyone call someone cis or ask me if I'm cis in real life so I disagree.

thedeerzord posted...

I've never even heard of the word "cis" until this topic.

What word do you think ought to be used instead of the proper one, which you have now heard and now know?

LinkPizza posted...

Sure. The problem is you can't ask an infant. And in many cases, you can't always ask the child, as they may not even understand what you're asking. Some will, but many probably won't. So until they actually know, they usually have to live as whatever they were giving at birth until they can.

We could raise children to be gender neutral for the first few years of their life (I think four is the typical age by which children have fully recognized their own gender?). It is the obvious solution and in fact has been done in the past in the culture we live in.

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Gaawa_chan posted...

We could raise children to be gender neutral for the first few years of their life (I think four is the typical age by which children have fully recognized their own gender?). It is the obvious solution and in fact has been done in the past in the culture we live in.

You could. Or we could just raise them as what they were born as without forcing anything, but let them choose when they know. Tbh, I think raising them gender neutral would cause more problems. Plus, they should still learn about the different between male and female as it's still important. And you can raise them just like normal, but don't force normal gender roles on them...

Gaawa_chan posted...

What word do you think ought to be used instead of the proper one, which you have now heard and now know?

Probably nothing. Most people probably aren't (and probably won't) go around calling most guys cisgender males. Most will probably just call them guys. The only time cis really needs to be use is when needed to distinguish between cis and trans...
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Gaawa_chan posted...

What word do you think ought to be used instead of the proper one, which you have now heard and now know?

Normally it's "boy" or "girl" at birth and those are perfectly fine by me. Outside of that though no word is actually needed.

LinkPizza posted...

Probably nothing. Most people probably aren't (and probably won't) go around calling most guys cisgender males. Most will probably just call them guys. The only time cis really needs to be use is when needed to distinguish between cis and trans...

... and on that note I believe the term became popular within the trans community by someone who is transgender. This is not surprising as that's the community that need a term to describe those who have gender and sex that match. It's not a term I've ever felt the need to use in real life and probably never will.

Gaawa_chan posted...

We could raise children to be gender neutral for the first few years of their life (I think four is the typical age by which children have fully recognized their own gender?). It is the obvious solution and in fact has been done in the past in the culture we live in.

Unless my Niece or Nephews tell me otherwise I'm certainly not forcing the idea of been "general natural" on them. I don't force boy or girl on them too. They like whatever they like. Providing it's harmless I don't care. I really don't think kids should be dealing with "adult" issues as chances are kids won't even understand these things.

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VioletMassacre posted...

I..'m not sure what this has to do with what I said, but I might be forgetting something.

I think what they're trying to say is those two are transgendered people, but you probably couldn't tell by just looking at them. And that was suppose to be a counter for when you said, "Being straight or not isnt something you can see on someone though, so thats different." I think...
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jhJDAI7XaAA

lol this topic is top tier

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i just get into arguments about his with haters, while recording them. Just is n the hope that they oust their violent tendencies towards transgendered people and then post those recordings online to shame them haters.

Because if you aren't supporting blank group of people 100% you're a homophobic racist trump supporter.


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Kimbos_Egg posted...

Because if you aren't supporting blank group of people 100% you're a homophobic racist trump supporter.

not necessarily but im sure a good number of transphobes are all of those other things too

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Nobody cares if they see themselves as trans, everybody cares when they're expected to change to accommodate anybody over anything. It's really not hard.
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