Current Events > Trump for some reason agrees to CBS News interview. Turns into Reddit/CE troll

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1283134382128222210

Remember when people just kind of suspected Trump was a racist?

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I mean, he's not lying. By raw numbers and by percentage of police engagements white people are killed at higher rates. The only time black people are killed at higher rates is if you look at deaths as a percentage of total population, which is a byproduct of black people getting into engagements with police at much higher rates.

Which is why some people focus on issues of police brutality, stop and frisk, profiling, and other issues around police engagement. Because they are the underlying conditions that lead to a higher rate of engagement and thus being shot.

There was a study commissioned number of years ago by a black professor at an Ivy League that came to the same conclusion. Black people face violence by police at a much higher rate than white people, but police are more restrained when it comes to actually shooting at people if they are black.

Edit: and I'm not saying this to downplay his racism, but so people understand the full scope of what is factually true and not so they know how to engage with people who make these arguments.

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Racist fuck
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that's pretty ..... bold, even for Trumpy. hopefully all of this talk of equality keeps getting under his skin and he continues to slowly crack, revealing the racism most of us have known was always there.

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s0nicfan posted...

but police are more restrained when it comes to actually shooting at people if they are black.

.... they are MORE restrained? that seems wrong to me. do you have a source?

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s0nicfan posted...

but police are more restrained when it comes to actually shooting at people if they are black.

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s0nicfan posted...

I mean, he's not lying. By raw numbers and by percentage of police engagements white people are killed at higher rates. The only time black people are killed at higher rates is if you look at deaths as a percentage of total population, which is a byproduct of black people getting into engagements with police at much higher rates.

Which is why some people focus on issues of police brutality, stop and frisk, profiling, and other issues around police engagement. Because they are the underlying conditions that lead to a higher rate of engagement and thus being shot.

There was a study commissioned number of years ago by a black professor at an Ivy League that came to the same conclusion. Black people face violence by police at a much higher rate than white people, but police are more restrained when it comes to actually shooting at people if they are black.

Edit: and I'm not saying this to downplay his racism, but so people understand the full scope of what is factually true and not so they know how to engage with people who make these arguments.

"I'm NoT A tRuMp SuPPoRtEr oR DeFenDiNg hIm bUt HeRe'S WhY hE'S RiGht AbOuT EvErYthIng I LovE hIm So MUch MAGA 2020! AgAIN nOT DeFENDing HiM."

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

.... they are MORE restrained? that seems wrong to me. do you have a source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/13/why-a-massive-new-study-on-police-shootings-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

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s0nicfan posted...

The only time black people are killed at higher rates is if you look at deaths as a percentage of total population, which is a byproduct of black people getting into engagements with police at much higher rates.

...you came so close to understanding the issue only to shit your pants six feet from the finish line

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You can also just use the raw statistics:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6406


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s0nicfan posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/13/why-a-massive-new-study-on-police-shootings-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

interesting, thanks for delivering.

some things i noted were that his study was only based on data from one place: Houston, and his study was widely criticized by his peers (fellow professors).

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DrizztLink posted...

...you came so close to understanding the issue only to shit your pants six feet from the finish line

Did you even read the rest of my post? I literally address it next:

s0nicfan posted...

Which is why some people focus on issues of police brutality, stop and frisk, profiling, and other issues around police engagement. Because they are the underlying conditions that lead to a higher rate of engagement and thus being shot.

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BUT EVEN IF WE ASSUME THAT STUDY IS 100% TRUE FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT

it's still total bullshit to reply to the question of "Why are police killing so many black people" with "BUT THEY KILL WHITE PEOPLE TOO".

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Y l K E S

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s0nicfan posted...

Did you even read the rest of my post? I literally address it next:

And yet you still don't understand the issue.

The bias is the point.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

interesting, thanks for delivering.

some things i noted were that his study was only based on data from one place: Houston, and his study was widely criticized by his peers (fellow professors).

Like I said in a follow-on, there are hard statistics captured by year. You can look at the total population by race, the number of police engagement every year by race, and the number of people shot every year by race. From there it's a simple percentage.

In terms of raw numbers, more white people are killed, which makes sense because they are a much larger portion of the population. In terms of percentage by police engagements more white people are killed, which is a byproduct of police restraint. In terms of percentage of population black people are killed by police at a higher rate, because police get involved with black people at a much higher rate than white people. Which is where most of the claims of bias come from.

And again, that is still acknowledging that police brutality is a much bigger problem for black people versus white people.

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DrizztLink posted...

And yet you still don't understand the issue.

The bias is the point.

At no point did I say there was no bias. The point is that the bias occurs in police engaging with black people, not at the moment the trigger is pulled.

Actually understanding what is happening is important to fixing the problem. And when you let someone like Trump say something that is easily verified as factually true and you scream about how he's wrong you just open yourself up for people to doubt everything else you're saying.

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The entire Trump campaign has been doubling-down on racial issues a lot in this late stage of the election. Earlier in the year they planned to make their messaging about the economy under the Trump administration but Covid obviously ruined that argument for them. Appealing to subtle racism is one of the only areas he has that still energizes his supporters.

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Looks like Liberals eat yet another Loss Turns out all lives matter was what should have been the correct chioce after all, guess Trump is gonna win again and that's just the way it's gonna be

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gotta appreciate s0nicfans effort but man its wasted energy on these boards

no one wants to hear anything that breaks their preconceived notions

Which is why its best to go into anything under the assumption you know nothing at all

be like Socrates

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

BUT EVEN IF WE ASSUME THAT STUDY IS 100% TRUE FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT

it's still total bullshit to reply to the question of "Why are police killing so many black people" with "BUT THEY KILL WHITE PEOPLE TOO".

THIS TIMES SOME LARGE NUMBER.

Ok can we talk about police brutality in general then!?

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CrimsonRage posted...

what i don't get...even if it is true more white people are killed by police.....isn't that still a problem?

It's absolutely a problem. I'm not saying there aren't issues with police and I am a firm supporter of police reform. People just need to know what is true and what isn't so they don't get dragged down a rabbit hole arguing that something isn't true when it is because it derails their entire argument and let people ignore everything else they're saying.

The response to Trump shouldn't be no you're wrong, it should be exactly what you said that even though what he is saying is true, it doesn't mean there isn't a problem. It means it's a problem for everybody.

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s0nicfan posted...

I mean, he's not lying. By raw numbers and by percentage of police engagements white people are killed at higher rates. The only time black people are killed at higher rates is if you look at deaths as a percentage of total population, which is a byproduct of black people getting into engagements with police at much higher rates.

Which is why some people focus on issues of police brutality, stop and frisk, profiling, and other issues around police engagement. Because they are the underlying conditions that lead to a higher rate of engagement and thus being shot.

There was a study commissioned number of years ago by a black professor at an Ivy League that came to the same conclusion. Black people face violence by police at a much higher rate than white people, but police are more restrained when it comes to actually shooting at people if they are black.

Edit: and I'm not saying this to downplay his racism, but so people understand the full scope of what is factually true and not so they know how to engage with people who make these arguments.

Very good post. +1

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Kuuko posted...

The entire Trump campaign has been doubling-down on racial issues a lot in this late stage of the election. Earlier in the year they planned to make their messaging about the economy under the Trump administration but Covid obviously ruined that argument for them. Appealing to subtle racism is one of the only areas he has that still energizes his supporters.

It's literally all they have left.

- The economy is slagging.
- Unemployment metrics aren't great.
- Coronavirus is somehow getting worse.
- His opponent is harder to rift off of then Hillary. Most of the complaints people have of Biden is he's too milquetoast and willing to compromise.
- There's a bunch of civil unrest so you can't even talk about how great you've been at order.

Literally all they have left are pushing cultural wedge issues

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s0nicfan posted...

It's absolutely a problem. I'm not saying there aren't issues with police and I am a firm supporter of police reform. People just need to know what is true and what isn't so they don't get dragged down a rabbit hole arguing that something isn't true when it is because it derails their entire argument and let people ignore everything else they're saying.

The response to Trump shouldn't be no you're wrong, it should be exactly what you said that even though what he is saying is true, it doesn't mean there isn't a problem. It means it's a problem for everybody.

Ok, good point.

I jumped the gun and now look like a jackass.

I apologise.

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Yup it's over Trump wins again. Liberals eternally salt Sonic is the most amazing fucking person ever and better than everyone and anyone!

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ReturnOfThaJedi posted...

One of the best uses of this meme
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DrizztLink posted...

Ok, good point.

I jumped the gun and now look like a jackass.

I apologise.

I understand where you're coming from, but this is exactly the trap that creates more racists and conspiracy theorists which is why I said anything. Somebody will say something that is factually true but missing the point, and other people will say that that person is wrong. A third-party will go online to verify and find out that the person was in fact telling the truth and their next thought is going to be "what else am I being lied to about?"

Like, Trump saying this is going to cause a debate and some people are going to say he's lying and other people are going to say he's telling the truth. Some people are going to look it up themselves to see who is right, and when they see the Trump is right and everybody else is wrong, they are going to start listening more to the people who said he was right. Which is where the problem begins.

Being technically correct about the wrong things is way more dangerous than just being wrong.

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I kind of knew that the Trump campaign was making China one of their big talking points now but watching Trump speak now I didn't realize they'd go all-in with it like this. Since he's not running an election against China, and especially since his tweets praising China and their handling of the virus a few months ago are still up on Twitter.

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CrimsonRage posted...

what i don't get...even if it is true more white people are killed by police.....isn't that still a problem?

It is. Whenever someone shares the information about white people facing the same issue, the conversation always seems to steer towards black people complain too much instead of the police need to get their shit together.

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