Poll of the Day > Do you categorize the looters/rioters as part of or separate from protesters?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've seen people arguing that the protesters and the looters/rioters are completely separate than the peaceful protests, people arguing that the looting and rioting are reasonable backlash for the mistreatment of certain groups or because peaceful protests don't work, people defending the looting and rioters by saying the damage they caused can be paid back by insurance, people saying the rioters were peaceful protesters that were coerced into violence by outside groups, etc.

The reality is there are probably more than a few groups with overlap.

However, I'm asking when you think of the looters, rioters, and protesters, how you generally categorize them in your mind.
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Like separate but semi related groups.

All going for the same goal, different factions. If that makes sense.

Three separate groups.

The protestors are protesting actions with a clear message abd want actions done to fix the current situation.

The rioters are creating chaos and destruction with no real reason other than civil disobedience, with no regard to the livelihoods they're damaging and ruining.

The looters are capitalizing on the chaos and destruction of the rioters for mere profit and gain.

Overlap is definitely the right word to use in this case. A few bad apples in the bunch, but I think it's unfair to brand someone as such because of the actions of a few.

With that said, both the left and right are guilty of wrongful labelling. They are just projecting their bias on one another (although this statement itself could be just as guilty of doing the same thing)

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There is a significant number of peaceful protesters.

There is surely a nonzero number of protesters who also engaged in looting, violence, or property damage.

There is absolutely a significant number of opportunists who are looting as a side-effect of the police being occupied, unrelated to the cause of the protest.

The existence of the latter two does not negate the existence of the former.

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What am I category police

the vast majority of protesters have been peaceful but its entirely possible that a few have let their anger get the best of them and started destroying property, and its also just as likely that some people are trying to sabotage the movement by escalating things to muddy the message, then of course there are the folks that just genuinely love breaking and stealing things, and this is just a really convenient time for them to enjoy some crimes.

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There's some overlap between rioters and protesters (though orders of magnitude less than the protests' detractors would have you believe), since it's a given when dealing with something this emotionally charged that some people will lash out non-peacefully. Given how police are treating peaceful protesters, it's also pretty understandable that many would lash out less peacefully in retaliation/because of further emotional charging. That said, there are also people rioting for the sake of causing trouble, whether in an effort to agitate the crowd into a proper mob or because they just see this as an opportunity to misbehave with little chance of direct consequences. They are distinct from protesters, since they're just looking to riot and not protest anything.

Looters are completely distinct from protesters. Looting is not a protest, it's taking advantage of the chaos to steal stuff. I'm sure there's some overlap in "membership" between looters and peaceful protesters, since people are never that clear-cut, but lumping looters in with protesters ignores the fundamental differences in their motivations and mindset.

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adjl posted...

There's some overlap between rioters and protesters (though orders of magnitude less than the protests' detractors would have you believe), since it's a given when dealing with something this emotionally charged that some people will lash out non-peacefully. Given how police are treating peaceful protesters, it's also pretty understandable that many would lash out less peacefully in retaliation/because of further emotional charging. That said, there are also people rioting for the sake of causing trouble, whether in an effort to agitate the crowd into a proper mob or because they just see this as an opportunity to misbehave with little chance of direct consequences. They are distinct from protesters, since they're just looking to riot and not protest anything.

Looters are completely distinct from protesters. Looting is not a protest, it's taking advantage of the chaos to steal stuff. I'm sure there's some overlap in "membership" between looters and peaceful protesters, since people are never that clear-cut, but lumping looters in with protesters ignores the fundamental differences in their motivations and mindset.

This is a really well thought out post.

Addendum: Looting can conceivably be a protest if the entity being looted is specifically what's being protested against. That would more accurately be called "raiding," since "looting" implies that it's more opportunistic than targeted, but it still bears mentioning if we want to be really thorough about defining the three groups.

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All the same. None really doing what they do for any good reason, so no reason to lump them in differently. Throw the stay at home protestors in that pile as well...its all just nonsense and time wasting by bored people.

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Protesters are different than people looting. People looting arent making the same statement that the protesters are.

One statement is We dont like what the police do. and the other is Im a dick and taking advantage of the situation.

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DrYuya posted...

All the same. None really doing what they do for any good reason, so no reason to lump them in differently. Throw the stay at home protestors in that pile as well...its all just nonsense and time wasting by bored people.

I mean, if we're going to be that broad, you might as well go all-in on it and say that there are no differences between any people because they all breathe. You've already given up any pretense of semantic value in the categories you're using, after all.

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Same group tbh. Not that I think they all have the same motivation, its just that all of this is going on at the same time, and I'm not directly involved, so I just think of them as people participating in the same events in different ways. I'm more interested in the long term ramifications of this than about any individuals involved in it.

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Separate, you got white supremacists and cops going in and trying to fire people up to start stuff along with your general professional rioters.

ChaosAzeroth posted...

Like separate but semi related groups.

All going for the same goal, different factions. If that makes sense.

Not necessarily true. I'm sure plenty of rioters are doing it for the same reason as protesters but I'm betting most looters are just opportunist who see a chance to steal shit. Sure they might be mad about the same thing but they aint stealing a tv to prove a point they are stealing a tv cause they want the tv. They wanted to show they where pissed off then just join the rioters. Im sure some do both too.

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Not necessarily true. I'm sure plenty of rioters are doing it for the same reason as protesters but I'm betting most looters are just opportunist who see a chance to steal shit. Sure they might be mad about the same thing but they aint stealing a tv to prove a point they are stealing a tv cause they want the tv. They wanted to show they where pissed off then just join the rioters. Im sure some do both too.

Ehh I'm not going to fully disagree, but at the same time I could see it being a 'we're busting this place up in protest anyway might as well'.

I definitely don't disagree some are in it to loot for loot's sake, there are always people that are going to take advantage of anything. But I think also no matter how good someone's intentions are, people are still people and they're going to sometimes give in to temptation.

ChaosAzeroth posted...

Ehh I'm not going to fully disagree, but at the same time I could see it being a 'we're busting this place up in protest anyway might as well'.

I definitely don't disagree some are in it to loot for loot's sake, there are always people that are going to take advantage of anything. But I think also no matter how good someone's intentions are, people are still people and they're going to sometimes give in to temptation.

Well yeah that was part of my class in criminal justice we where told majority of crime is crime of opportunity. Person saw a opportunity that appears low risk and they jump on it.

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Well yeah that was part of my class in criminal justice we where told majority of crime is crime of opportunity. Person saw a opportunity that appears low risk and they jump on it.

Interesting.

I'll have to admit I have no such education.

I can see that, I guess most of the more seedy people I've known have absolutely been the type to plan to do a bad thing as opposed to taking an opportunity.

I knew some real uhhh.. great folks when I was younger.

zebatov posted...

Protesters are different than people looting. People looting arent making the same statement that the protesters are.

One statement is We dont like what the police do. and the other is Im a dick and taking advantage of the situation.

A mob is a mob is a mob.

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dancer62 posted...

A mob is a mob is a mob.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

Please overlook the fact that's an absolute.

Seriously though, life has lots of shades of grey. Not everything is clear cut and dry.

ChaosAzeroth posted...

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

Please overlook the fact that's an absolute.

Seriously though, life has lots of shades of grey. Not everything is clear cut and dry.

Okay, I'll deal in probabilities and avoid mobs.

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I consider the protesters one group, and the rioters and looters another group, and I'm pretty disgusted that people view peaceful protest the same as rioting... like seriously I'm disgusted.

People have the right to protest. Just because you don't agree with the reason they are protesting doesn't mean they don't have the right to do it. I didn't agree with the guys out there a few weeks ago protesting about re-opening the country so they could get a hair cut, but I would not support the government tear gassing them.

Peaceful Protest is a corner stone of democracy and anyone who objects to that is not a real American.

But rioting is violence. Looting is theft, they are crimes and they must be stopped. While I get the anger and frustration, all rioting and looting does is abandon the moral high ground.

As an old black person I know a simple fact, if you give racist an inch, they'll take a mile. We are trying to express to America and the world that law enforcement should not police black communities so harshly, after generations of this it is a hard sell, but what makes it 1000 times harder is when Racist can turn on the news and see a ton of black faces burning down their own communities and then they can say "The police would not treat them like animals if they didn't act like animals"

Now I could argue all day and night on how that's an unfair generalization, and I would be right, but why give them the ammunition at all, why allow that to even be a talking point.

I am very disappointed in those who are attacking (both physically and verbally) the peaceful protest. And I am very disappointed in those who are rioting and looting.

#BeBetter

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I think a good portion of the protesters nationwide were marching and acting peacefully but as we all know there's also that smaller group of people who ruin it for everybody because those people who were looting would have done so regardless of the situation as long as the police were focused elsewhere, that gave the looters carte blanche because they knew LEOs were busy dealing with the crowds.

In my opinion those who were looting probably shoplft in stores anyway but again the distraction of the protests which warranted the attention of the police just gave the looters the perfect storm.

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It's hypocritical af to group all cops together while separating protestors from rioters.

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Some people for a fact went to the protests with the intention of looting. I would not consider them part of the protests. It's harder for me to separate the rioters from protesters though.

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theyre all valid forms of protest

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Veedrock- posted...

It's hypocritical af to group all cops together while separating protestors from rioters.

The fact that any given police department is a defined, organized entity makes that a lot more justifiable, at least when referring to any specific group of police. There are plenty of examples of places where the protests have not been met with unwarranted violence from police, but in the places where they have, it's reasonable to treat the entire police department as a single unit. Any individual cops that want to be excepted from that need to do something publicly to set themselves apart from their colleagues, such as resigning, publicly criticizing their superiors, or exposing some manner of corruption.

Everyone knows there are plenty of good cops out there. If they want specific recognition, though, they're going to have to do some good for us to recognize.

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adjl posted...

I mean, if we're going to be that broad, you might as well go all-in on it and say that there are no differences between any people because they all breathe. You've already given up any pretense of semantic value in the categories you're using, after all.

People too bored to do something better with their time and people who aren't is the only real distinction that matters for most things.

Just getting into politics heavily and following too intently what happens on the news...taking all that mess so seriously that you have to go out with a sign and express yourself about it when you could have just not bothered watching/voting/getting so deeply involved to begin with and lived your life just fine...well that makes you a whole other class of individual than someone who can just live a normal life and not do those things.

It doesn't matter if you think your radically different from someone else who held a sign for a different reason or someone who broke windows and looted...your all about the same and a very distinctly different type than the average person who doesn't need to do any of that stuff to get by. So no, not the same as the breathing analogy.


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DrYuya posted...

People too bored to do something better with their time and people who aren't is the only real distinction that matters for most things.

You don't think "people who aren't committing vandalism" and "people who are committing vandalism" is a practically significant distinction?

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looters are thieves, plain and simple, and these protests are an opportunity, ok?

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