Board 8 > Coronavirus topic 7: Biohazard

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

He knows what he was doing there.

I was calling things out to be exactly what they seem to be in a broader sense.

Granted they were also lumped in with toxic groups like antivaxxers and such.

But a lot of the money went towards pushing fringe often racist groups into mobilizing.

If this were actually organized by workers I'd give them more credit but this was nothing but big money far right groups working to further recruit people for their agendas.

Of which you know, white supremacy just happens to align.

Corrik7 posted...

Inb4 red blames loosening of restrictions from less than a week ago on a jump that would be from infections multiple weeks ago.

I think the timing works out pretty well for Easter, though, and I know multiple states were having problems with that.

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Actually, looking at the protests there were some organized in a better time frame for the spike so that is a possibility, too. red might be right on that one.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Actually, looking at the protests there were some organized in a better time frame for the spike so that is a possibility, too. red might be right on that one.

They began on the weekend of the 17th. That's about 10 to 12 days for the effects of larger groups intentionally shirking social distancing to start having an impact on our numbers. With assumed 5 day incubation and asymptomatic spreaders, don't doubt that they could be a cause of a slight diversion of the curve starting well, right around where we are now.

South Korea had its first day of 0 new domestic cases.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Actually, looking at the protests there were some organized in a better time frame for the spike so that is a possibility, too. red might be right on that one.

No.

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I'll tell yinz what. Since yinz always do this dumb shit and argue literally off the wall ridiculous things, then provide evidence to your theories. At all. Don't just make up a dumb theory with no evidence behind it.

I am tired of wasting my time literally having to argue on the sides of things I don't even agree with because your attacks on them are so preposterous and to not let your bullshit narrative go as if correct.

Like, literally you are turning a pointing out of an increase and questioning the models post to a racism point. It's just flabbergasting.

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I dont think i was arguing anything other than a potential correlation of increased cases being associated with widespread disregard for social distancing.

Labeling the rallies what they are is not arguing a point of anything, it's merely placing an appropriate label onto something. They were all full of anti Chinese(not to be confused with anti China) rhetoric and groups associated with white supremacy.

I don't know what you think i am arguing with this when it is merely a collection of facts. The only argument I made is in regards to these rallies perhaps leading to an increase of covid cases.

Your facts are made up, red.

I am done talking about it. It's ridiculous, and it is how you drive people away from your positions because you have to try and amp every last thing up to ridiculous levels to lose the regular audience.

The sheer numbers, when you usually would go into severe / critical in the stage, and the likelihood of where these numbers came from in relation to protest states make your premise unlikely. If you have any evidence to support it besides you feel it is that, I would be interested to see it.

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What exactly did I present as a fact that I made up?

Minnesota stay at home extended to May 18th.

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Strife2 posted...

Minnesota stay at home extended to May 18th.

PA going to go yellow with counties starting May 8th. Supposed to announce them Friday.

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Leafeon13N posted...

What exactly did I present as a fact that I made up?

It comes across to me as someone desperately trying to defend a group because they're a part of his political affiliation, I wouldn't worry about it.
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v_charon posted...

It comes across to me as someone desperately trying to defend a group because they're a part of his political affiliation, I wouldn't worry about it.

No. I could give a shit less about white supremacists. And I am not a person who supports protesting the lockdowns either. Doesn't mean people should paint things to their political narrative to try and create an enemy.

Red was doing what liberals do in general. Try to take everything they disagree with and vilify it. Usually with the race card somehow. Just pointless.

It was a dumb political narrative that had relatively little to do with the comment.

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Okay so anyways. 3 days ago we were at 15k in severe and critical in the United States.

Yesterday we hit 19k.

Today at about 18.6k.

For reference, I think the highest any other country hit while this was being tallied by roylab was 10k by Spain.

Granted we are also however many times the size of Spain also.

The question though is if the number severe and critical is proportional to the death counts, then the death peak should be going higher. For reference, two weeks ago at the supposed peak we had about 10k in severe and critical.

So, either
A. The death count has not peaked.

B. More people are being discovered and admitted to hospital (increased testing/hospitalization capacity).

C. These numbers are wrong.

D. We have gotten better at treating patients within this category.

E. We have expanded what we consider this category to encompass.

Does anyone have an accurate daily death count in the United States?

Also, we have heard of cases that drag on long and this could be a build up of those dragging on long. China for example is still at 1500 in severe or critical despite basically nothing on the cases or deaths side realistically for awhile now also.

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red called the protests white supremacist rallies.
they weren't.

he then backtracked it to saying white supremacists align with them.
which is irrelevant since the objection is to what he claimed they were.

so he then went through hoops to make up their rhetoric but stuck with keeping them being associated as a backup.

only objection corrik's had is that they ain't white supremacist rallies. it's not their purpose, it's not their make up, it's not their topic.

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Wanglicious posted...

red called the protests white supremacist rallies.
they weren't.

he then backtracked it to saying white supremacists align with them.
which is irrelevant since the objection is to what he claimed they were.

so he then went through hoops to make up their rhetoric but stuck with keeping them being associated as a backup.

only objection corrik's had is that they ain't white supremacist rallies. it's not their purpose, it's not their make up, it's not their topic.

I also object that the rise in severe and critical is because of the protests also. I don't think it adds up from a time standpoint, a % that get severe and critical at those age ranges perspective, and the sheer number perspective. That is before even accounting where the cases are likely coming from versus where protests were (also in that many protesters were from rural areas less affected by it - as PA was).

I think red just accounted it to where he wanted it to be accounted to push his own narrative.

Extraneous though.

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Corrik7 posted...

So, either
A. The death count has not peaked.

B. More people are being discovered and admitted to hospital (increased testing/hospitalization capacity).

both of these.
let's put it this way:

in a direct response to everywhere supposedly having hit their peak, states have taken notably more drastic measures of lockdown. now this could be a case of government trying to get more power, that's fair. but it should also be a clear sign that officials were lying but figured they'd try to reach the numbers they want anyway.

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Wouldn't states that say they have hit their peak previously be states looking moreso at reopening versus states that say they have yet to peak?

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Corrik7 posted...

I also object that the rise in severe and critical is because of the protests also. I don't think it adds up from a time standpoint, a % that get severe and critical at those age ranges perspective, and the sheer number perspective.

i mean an increase of numbers would need a better breakdown if you want to connect the protests to that directly. there may be a thread there for some people, sure. but i already am in the camp that doesn't believe what our own governments are saying because if things had peaked they'd loosen restrictions instead of being more draconian and cracking down harder. i'm pretty firmly in the camp of 'peak hasn't hit yet, they just know it's gonna be up and down.'


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Wanglicious posted...

i mean an increase of numbers would need a better breakdown if you want to connect the protests to that directly. there may be a thread there for some people, sure. but i already am in the camp that doesn't believe what our own governments are saying because if things had peaked they'd loosen restrictions instead of being more draconian and cracking down harder. i'm pretty firmly in the camp of 'peak hasn't hit yet, they just know it's gonna be up and down.'

That's why I said Red's FACTS he said he posted are made up. If the severe and critical jump is from nursing homes, I highly doubt they were from protesters and such. He had no basis to argue that or to declare it as facts.

I think states are struggling very hard on how to count things.

For example, PA had pedestrian death numbers. Then the actual mortality was high so they tried to figure it out. They dumped 370 deaths onto the total. People got leery of this number. PA removed 200 deaths from the total. Then just yesterday I believe we had a monster number of 470 deaths in a single day versus the about 50-90ish we have been having per day.

I mean, I get this is lags, lack of coordination, or so on. But, I think it speaks to that the government's don't know how exactly to be recording these things either.

And it only fuels the crowd saying everything is being lumped in as corona to take away people's rights chorus.

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Corrik7 posted...

Wouldn't states that say they have hit their peak previously be states looking moreso at reopening versus states that say they have yet to peak?

well sure. but a lot of the peak stuff was said like... 2-3 weeks ago? taking NY as an example since i live here, Cuomo said back on April 11th it appears we've hit our peak and constantly as counting it down weeks before it.

as that happened restrictions grew tighter on what you can do, where you can go, the mask order happened a few days later (15th), and just today NYC has officially announced its 24/7 MTA service is going to have major changes done to it. specifics not clear yet.

in other words, NYC has not hit its peak. logically, officials knew this already so they were figuring they'd take a stand and add in stronger measures to try to artificially make the old numbers the peak. those measures failed.

some states trying to open up are probably fine and a multi-step process is correct on this. you open things one at a time, section by section. others, not so much.

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Corrik7 posted...

That's why I said Red's FACTS he said he posted are made up. If the severe and critical jump is from nursing homes, I highly doubt they were from protesters and such. He had no basis to argue that or to declare it as facts.

I think states are struggling very hard on how to count things.

For example, PA had pedestrian death numbers. Then the actual mortality was high so they tried to figure it out. They dumped 370 deaths onto the total. People got leery of this number. PA removed 200 deaths from the total. Then just yesterday I believe we had a monster number of 470 deaths in a single day versus the about 50-90ish we have been having per day.

I mean, I get this is lags, lack of coordination, or so on. But, I think it speaks to that the government's don't know how exactly to be recording these things either.

And it only fuels the crowd saying everything is being lumped in as corona to take away people's rights chorus.

oh definitely.
i do appreciate that our governments are trying to get an accurate reading of how many deaths to corona we have, that's in stark contrast to countries who actively hide it, but it's hard to do. some cases you can totally add in without hesitation - pneumonia should just be slapped right on in there. others though like... just because you have it doesn't mean you died from it; if you get in a traffic accident corona didn't kill you but some reporting does appear to be including those cases. there's a mess here that's got false confirmations AND underreporting at the same time and i think officials are just hoping that they can figure out the two will mostly offset each other.

personally i don't mind the numbers being a little higher than they ought to be but only if that means government doesn't try to push stronger authority/take in more power for itself. ...which basically means i'm on the side of "this is fine" until i rapidly join the group of "fuck off, you're lying."


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Wanglicious posted...

he then backtracked it to saying white supremacists align with them.

I did no backtracking of the sort

If you align and court white supremacists I have always maintained you are a white supremacist.

I have always stood by the fact that a white supremacist label is appropriate for these rallies.

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Which is misinformation. We know. Anyways.

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Do you not agree that if you are actively courting and funding white supremacist groups for these rallies that you are a white supremacist?

Because that is exactly what happened here.

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fucking lmao.
how does china keep doing this and get away with it.

you'd think the UK would've learned last time with the $20 million spent on test kits but no.
that wasn't enough.

ventilators that will fucking kill you is where we're at in "you still haven't learned?"

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1255952908656533514

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red13n posted...

Do you not agree that if you are actively courting and funding white supremacist groups for these rallies that you are a white supremacist?

Because that is exactly what happened here.

You literally got that off of a Twitter account, red, and again it is not indicative - even if a few may perhaps match up in ways you would like - of the goals and multiples of rallies. Like, fucking put up actual facts or shut up already. I created these Coronavirus topics to talk about the virus. Not your identity politics bullshit.

Like, you are beyond frustrating with your everything I don't agree with is racist or villains causing blood in the streets narratives.

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Wanglicious posted...

fucking lmao.
how does china keep doing this and get away with it.

you'd think the UK would've learned last time with the $20 million spent on test kits but no.
that wasn't enough.

ventilators that will fucking kill you is where we're at in "you still haven't learned?"

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1255952908656533514

edit:
also note this bit.
"Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove triumphantly announced the arrival of "300 ventilators from China" to help treat COVID-19 patients on 4 April. But the letter of warning from doctors was issued just nine days later."

so if you remember at the start of the month how China was bragging about helping other countries, how they were sending resources to Europe, and all that?
yeah.
that's what these are.

This is what kept the Chinese death count so low in China, Wang. *Rolls eyes*

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can't say coronavirus killed you if the ventilator did first.


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Corrik7 posted...

You literally got that off of a Twitter account, red, and again it is not indicative - even if a few may perhaps match up in ways you would like - of the goals and multiples of rallies. Like, fucking put up actual facts or shut up already. I created these Coronavirus topics to talk about the virus. Not your identity politics bullshit.

Like, you are beyond frustrating with your everything I don't agree with is racist or villains causing blood in the streets narratives.

Are you disputing that these protests courted white supremacist groups or not?

You are dancing the question for your own agenda.

I'm not disputing that they put kill thousands of people for the economy as a face for their protest.

But if you actively recruit white supremacist groups to a rally I maintain it to be a white supremacist rally.

Leafeon13N posted...

Are you disputing that these protests courted white supremacist groups or not?

You are dancing the question for your own agenda.

I'm not disputing that they put kill thousands of people for the economy as a face for their protest.

But if you actively recruit white supremacist groups to a rally I maintain it to be a white supremacist rally.

I am sure they courted anyone who would go protest to open the country back up.

You are dangerously at the point of labeling any liberal rally of any kind antifa rallies.

Like, it's just dumb, red. Seriously.

Like how the fuck would I know who was courted by what. You seem to have a specific instance in mind, while providing zero proof of any of it.

I got an invite to join the protest in PA. So did a lot of people around me. It was literally a fucking Facebook thing.

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You court white supremacy I consider you a white supremacist. I will never find this unreasonable.

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red13n posted...

You court white supremacy I consider you a white supremacist. I will never find this unreasonable.

Awesome. Still makes you factually wrong and peddling misinformation. I guess we can drop the *purposely* peddling misinformation part from it because you actually believe it.

It's like a religious person passing off the coming apocalypse.

Now that we established that stop wasting my time with nonsense. Lol.

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You really are coming across like you own these topics, by the way. As if conversation you personally frown on shouldn't be discussed here. Very dangerous way to portray yourself.
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To weigh in on what I think red is feeling, there are no doubt many of these rallies that are populated by white supremacists. Certainly there's no one that's going to deny that. There are even rallies mainly backed by groups labeled as such by many organizations, such as the Proud Boys and Patriot Movement affiliates. The main thing is that, in my eyes, these people are all cut from the same cloth anyway. White supremacists? Mostly the alt-right. Coronavirus protesters? Mostly the alt-right. I don't normally subscribe to the belief that every ___ is a ___ blank, but in this case both these groups of people are the scourge of society so there's bound to be a fair amount of overlapping. The alt-right in general is a plague and pox on America so ridiculing them at any chance is fair in my book.

Also this whole thing seemed to begin because you baited him into it anyway with your "inb4 red" comment before he actually even elaborated on anything. And again, this is now the second time I've seen you bring up "I started these topics", as if it's some sort of creative venture that you founded and can control the narrative of. I thought it was strange the first time I read you commenting about making the first topic, but now that you've brought it up again as if it really means something it makes me wonder if you really feel like you have some sort of dominion over the flow of the conversation.
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Thanks for your opinion, v_charon. I understand it fully and while I disagree with it mightily, I would ask if you would like to move on from it and could put any of your unique insight into the severe and critical numbers rising across the United States and what it means as far as the pandemic in our country.

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Severe and critical is at 15,226 right now. So, was the surge just a lag in intakes vs recoveries/deaths?

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Trump said hes seen evidence that the virus was created in a lab
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That would be insane. I believe the virus came from a lab, but I do not believe the virus was specifically created in one.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAhsXyO3Ck

awesome video about isolation

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cgp grey is always a good watch, this one's extra nice in how quick he'd have had to be to put together a video of that quality given that isolation like that is only a few months old phenomenon, modernly speaking.

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CoolCly posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAhsXyO3Ck

awesome video about isolation

love CGP's videos. ironically, i fell asleep in my chair just after watching it. <_<

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Nice our local drive in is opening next week.... But... No new movies to play lol.

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is recarpeting my buildings staircase really an essential job right now

not that I would actually report my landlord if it was technically against the rules, but man it is super loud and I have no where to go to escape it so im very annoyed

so much hammering
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Corrik7 posted...

Nice our local drive in is opening next week.... But... No new movies to play lol.

Our local drive in closed like 20 years ago. I bet someone is kicking themselves right now.

Leafeon13N posted...

Our local drive in closed like 20 years ago. I bet someone is kicking themselves right now.

We have like 4 in our area.

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And after telling the drive-ins they could open, governor wolf an hour ago after all the drive-ins announced their opening dates emergency declared they were told they can open in "mistake". LMFAO.

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mandatory masks in public in mass starting May 6th. Boy my dad sure is gonna be mad!

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https://local.theonion.com/man-not-sure-he-can-take-another-6-weeks-of-barely-foll-1843201749

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