Board 8 > Final Fantasy 7: Remake Spoiler Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

ShatteredElysium posted...

I mean why wouldn't he though? It's Midgar Cloud vs endgame Sephiroth. Cloud should be getting trounced unless he doesn't get stronger at all as the game progresses.

According to Maximilian dude, at the end of the sephiroth fight, cloud apparently tried to use Omnislash on sephiroth like at the end of ff7 original, but sephiroth just blocked it easily. That would be because he's the time traveling seph from AC and knew to look for it, but more importantly it implies the cloud at the end of part1 at the edge of creation was fully powered, endgame cloud.

i hope that's true at least because it would explain why tifa goes from "almost dying" from a 10 foot drop in the shinra building to jumping 20 feet in the air and breaking 50 foot pieces of concrete with her bare feet in the ending cutscenes

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part of my hard playthrough was Healing and Revive on all characters.

HP and MP ups on all of them, sometimes 2 of each

Steadfast Block came in handy. Knowing elemental weaknesses also is a huge plus so you don't waste slots on elements you don't need at the time.

Also Elemental Mastered on armor with whatever element an enemy uses, trivializes a lot of things

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KommunistKoala posted...

so one thing i didnt really understand

how did anything we did have an effect on zack living

or is it just supposed to be a potential alternate timeline and that's it

Alternate timeline, but the plot ghosts transcend time so couldn't control destiny and that allowed Zack to win? Maybe there's infinite timelines. idk, I liked the game but it's such a weird mess I have no idea how they're going to reconcile all this stuff.

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Also, no playable Red is so lame considering how huge a role he has in the closing stages. It's a real shame. He's probably my favourite character in the original.

Something else I didn't like: it felt like, for harder fights, the idea was basically "OK, use assess, then if you don't have the right materia lose on purpose so you can prepare properly the second time". That long video brought this up too, and suggested using an ATB bar to swap out materia, and maybe limiting it to one swap or something. I'm on board with that.

But I am so into it at the moment man. I spent like 4 hours last night boning up on FF7 lore - there's so many little things I totally forgot about.

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XIII_rocks posted...

Also, no playable Red is so lame considering how huge a role he has in the closing stages. It's a real shame. He's probably my favourite character in the original.

Something else I didn't like: it felt like, for harder fights, the idea was basically "OK, use assess, then if you don't have the right materia lose on purpose so you can prepare properly the second time". That long video brought this up too, and suggested using an ATB bar to swap out materia, and maybe limiting it to one swap or something. I'm on board with that.

Honestly the solution they propose for the sequel seems more elegant. Party swap mid battle. Bring Fire Tifa, swap to Ice Yuffie if you need that instead.

That said, there should be a really high cost for switching out characters.

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Yeah I really felt the materia issues when there's randomly 1 enemy in the entire game who has a weapon you can steal (the ghost boss in the train graveyard). Steal is basically useless for every other fight so dying and starting the fight over is the only option.

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You don't have to lose on purpose, you can just pause, pick Restart from Battle and it'll plop you right before the fight started.

...except on the final one, where doing so will plop you all the way back to the Expressway. That was a real questionable decision.

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Btw I've been watching Aerith's VA streams of this game. She is really great.

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DeathChicken posted...

You don't have to lose on purpose, you can just pause, pick Restart from Battle and it'll plop you right before the fight started.

Yeah I know I was just being dramatic

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It's interesting that said video brought up the possibility of "PS1 footage", I was 100% waiting for that and thinking that would happen, but then thought it kinda didn't match the tone somehow...it worked in MGS4 but that was MGS, which famously has like no fourth wall.

I'm not sure if I would like it or not. It seems off-kilter but I guess it'd depend how it was implemented.

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I was kinda hoping you might unlock PS1 models for main characters after beating the game

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I'm a little disappointed you can't unlock the dresses as normal costumes but they seemed kind of janky even for that short segment and would probably break horribly in battle

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Does disposing Airbuster parts actually do anything? I got rid of all Bomber Shells on Hard Mode and it was still using them.

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For sure it does in normal mode. I disposed of them all and it never used it. Hard mode probably not so much

I could see it being a Hard mode thing where you fight Airbuster at max regardless of what you do. Fun fight still

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Finally finished maxing all 12 magic materia. Oh, sweet hell yes that juicy MP Absorption materia.

Finally finished. This is how I understand things.

The whispers are an in-game manifestation of plot armor based on what happened in FF7. Sephiroth can cut through the plot armor and change the timeline. The party went to a different timeline in the end, where apparently Zack survived.

There's 2 ways I think this can go. 1) This means that part 2 is free and can go in a totally different direction if it wants. 2) Everything in the last chapter was just some batshit nonsense to give us something to talk about for the next couple years, but the next part will still be 90% as the original, but with some alternate scenes thrown in, just like this one.

I think it's gonna be option 2 honestly. Nomura's speciality is the in-between-games nonsense speculation, and beyond that, what is the benefit of changing things too much? This just covers their ass in case they want to change or cut large parts of the next parts. I can imagine after the game goes open world, there's a lot of stuff that will be totally boring if taken from the original.

The weirdest thing is keeping Zack alive. What even is the point of that? Doesn't really affect the story...

Side note I really thought they were gonna let us play the Zack scene here. That would've been GOAT for sure, but I guess it only has impact when he dies.

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Also - I think the concept of the ending is really good. Sephiroth being on a meta level and not bound by the events of FF7 makes him way scarier.

But the execution definitely sucked. It was completely Kingdom Hearts with no regard for the universe that they are in. Even if it's all an illusion or mental or whatever, it still just doesn't fit. It could've been more subdued like Xenoblade's ending and still worked narratively. It's a shame considering how meticulously refined the rest of the game was. It doesn't help that the gameplay took a nosedive towards the end too.

Even if you like the direction they're going in, you can't help but wish you had more of the early sections of the game which stuck closer to the original. They were just plain better.

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How do you know the Zack lore? Did you play Crisis Core or just picked it up through internet osmosis at some point?

That was another thing I was interested in seeing your reaction to as someone who hadn't played the original, considering this game literally doesn't explain anything about that scene or character or what's going on/when it's going on (but any FF7/CC players would understand...). Hell, if "Zack" wasn't included in the subtitles a random player would have no idea the character's name, lol...

Zack surviving is feeling like Kingdom Hearts III which is all about setting up happy endings for characters who had less-than-happy fates originally. The criticism of "Nomura fanfic" doesn't feel too far off the mark... though he is integral to the lore re: Cloud, Sephiroth, Aerith and (if they reintroduce him) Genesis, and he factored heavily enough into Advent Children.

I agree on option 2 also - not even sure how they would take it in a different direction, but the fact is they gotta chase down Sephiroth, and that chase eventually lands them at the Temple... unless Sephiroth decides to enact an entirely different master plan this go-around.

Finished this earlier

That pacing at the end was a bit much. Definitely needed an extra spot or two to allow you to pause or save or whatever.

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Also in the just finished this tonight after playing way longer than I anticipated because the end never lets you breathe camp.

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I played through Crisis Core and have the typical FF7 osmosis, but I really don't know any details beyond that. Like I had no idea that Cloud literally walked from the Crisis Core ending into Midgar, Tifa found him, and then FF7 starts. I thought he spent a while actually being a merc in the city.

Anyway thinking about it more, this game totally followed the Star Wars sequel approach. Episode 7 was essentially a remake of Episode 4, with some really cool extra scenes, and a bunch of confusing filler that was clearly there just to give Episode 8/9's writer stuff to work with. Things like Roche and the Whispers are like the Knights of Ren and Rey's parentage - just random literary ammo that they can choose to expand on in the next parts, or just totally abandon. It also feels like they will base the direction of the next part off of public reactions like Star Wars. I hope they can execute it a lot better though, focusing on the good stuff. More Wall Market type stuff...

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davidponte posted...

I'm sure we'll get CC stuff, I meant to say that this isn't FF7 + Compilations, this is FF7 + Compilations + KH + Whatever Nomura thinks of next week.

Can't wait for part 11 when Sephiroth becomes Sin.

The one spoiler I ran into was the ffx Easter egg that suggests that this is zanarkand or whatever thousands of years in the future and that Shinra the Al Bhef weaponized the far plane to make mako

...this is all based off of like one picture in shirna hq

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I will say that they pump faked the hell out of me

My jaw dropped and I gasped and was talking to myself that there was no way that they turned around and took out Barret instead of Aerith. Then he walked it off and all was well

I don't know how to rank boss fights or anything at the moment but I will say that I loved Rufus as a character here. And reno + rude fight was somehow easier than individual fights. Disappointed didn't get more Roche though. I was dreading having to fight him there again at the end but instead we got 6 wheeler because reasons? They did a good job of giving all the Shinra guys personalities and ability to love to hate them

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You got motorball cause thats how it was in the OG lol.

I am unsure why they really added Roche other than to show 'hey here is what a SOLDIER boss would be like'

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foolm0r0n posted...

I played through Crisis Core and have the typical FF7 osmosis, but I really don't know any details beyond that. Like I had no idea that Cloud literally walked from the Crisis Core ending into Midgar, Tifa found him, and then FF7 starts. I thought he spent a while actually being a merc in the city.

Anyway thinking about it more, this game totally followed the Star Wars sequel approach. Episode 7 was essentially a remake of Episode 4, with some really cool extra scenes, and a bunch of confusing filler that was clearly there just to give Episode 8/9's writer stuff to work with. Things like Roche and the Whispers are like the Knights of Ren and Rey's parentage - just random literary ammo that they can choose to expand on in the next parts, or just totally abandon. It also feels like they will base the direction of the next part off of public reactions like Star Wars. I hope they can execute it a lot better though, focusing on the good stuff. More Wall Market type stuff...

The timeline from CC to OG7 was apparently 2 months.

Yet the timeline from CC to end of CC was like.... 7 years?


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Also, I'm kind of into the credits theme

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I like how the hard mode battle sims still give you item rewards like ethers and potions.

Fastbreak posted...

The one spoiler I ran into was the ffx Easter egg that suggests that this is zanarkand or whatever thousands of years in the future and that Shinra the Al Bhef weaponized the far plane to make mako

...this is all based off of like one picture in shirna hq

X-2 implied that already with the little Shinra kid

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Also the OWA remake at the end was pretty great, especially with the MGR style music synchronization, but the lowkey best remakes are all the JENOVA themes. They turned all that cheesy synth into something really elegant.

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foolm0r0n posted...

X-2 implied that already with the little Shinra kid

Yeah the picture is of someone with the Shinra kid mask on, assuming he is like the very first piece of modern day Shinra hence the name

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There is a lot I don't remember about the original but one thing I will just ask, was domino always pro avalanche? I don't remember that at all

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I mean, he helped

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I think he was just anti-Shinra on the original.

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Fastbreak posted...

There is a lot I don't remember about the original but one thing I will just ask, was domino always pro avalanche? I don't remember that at all

Not really I don't think. He's just disgruntled at the company. Avalanche in general seemed more than a minor extremist group consisting of just the people you meet in the original. I never got the impression of it being bigger than cast you meet.

Beat Hell House on the second try. Not that hard, it's just the first time I didn't put any Revive materia and Aerith got insta killed by a Tonberry at the start. If you know they're coming though, Triple Slash twice takes care of them. I ignored Cutty and Sweepy at the end and saved Ascension for when I got an opening in the final phase.

What seems tedious is going through this fight multiple times to get all manuscripts.

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I completely cheaped out on the first Tonberry fight that you do in that one side-mission. I threw like 4 or 5 Orbs of Gravity at it (everything I had, basically) to reduce its health to almost nothing then wailed on it as fast as I could before it got a chance to kill me <_<

I get the feeling I wouldn't enjoy an enemy that fires them at you.

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Friendly party members seem good at dodging Tonberry's basic attacks (well at least Tifa is). I just waited until he tried to cheap shot one of em and whiffing it allowing for easy pressure. It is only when he decides to do his ZA WARUDO move where things get dicey since they don't seem to want to get away from him when he does that

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with cloud you can literally just hit square, and then roll away right after and he'll whiff every time and then you can pressure him

tonberry was sadly a joke

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Well thankfully the Tonberries in the Hell House fight have low health so you just have to be prepared when they spawn to kill them quickly. Got a lot more worried when I saw having to fight Hell House, Cutty and Sweepy at the same time. Dunno what I would have done if I didn't have that Limit.

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I beat Hell House on Hard before he was even able to summon Cutty and Sweepy. I didn't even know he did that!

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

What seems tedious is going through this fight multiple times to get all manuscripts.

The SUPER tedious thing is that you can't tell which missions you'll get until AFTER the fight so you might have to do it a lot if the guides to do Sam or Madame M's missions aren't working.


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I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the bartending scene was way off

https://twitter.com/CZaneH/status/1254112469372583941

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I never bothered getting fluent with the quick commands during battle in my first playthrough. Getting a general mapping down now for all characters so they all have stagger, heavy damage, finishers, and heals bound to the same shortcuts. Hopefully I can reduce my menu time a bunch with that and do less thinking.

Chapter 14 Hard beated. The more I progress in Hard mode, the more I'm impressed with the battle system. Now everything is clicking.

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BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Chapter 14 Hard beated. The more I progress in Hard mode, the more I'm impressed with the battle system. Now everything is clicking.

Yes, losing five times to Hell House has really improved my skills.

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phew the 5 fight gauntlet to fight the Pride and Joy Prototype

32 minutes total

fun things in each summon fight leading up to that.

Shiva - can now heal
Fat Chocobo - the Tonberrys it summons will OHKO you if you don't kill it fast enough
Leviathan - not much different but Tidal Wave will definitely kill your whole party now if you don't manawall beforehand
Bahamut - Mega Flare will still wipe out the party without manawall same as before, but now he also summons Ifrit halfway through the fight

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although I guess only @Whiskey_Nick has done that fight so far

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I am Nick

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Doing second Mako reactor tonight. So far the hardest fight in Hard mode has been that white dog for some reason??

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Doing second Mako reactor tonight. So far the hardest fight in Hard mode has been that white dog for some reason??

Those things are brutal in Hard mode for some reason.

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