Poll of the Day > it should be illegal to discuss jesus or bible in the class roo

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Classes should be standardised with a functional learning plan and remove all autonomy from teachers.

That doesn't work with most inner city schools these days. Of the many schools my Mom has taught at, the board has tried to implement a few things that way. It never works, because the board is out of touch and has their heads up their own asses. On top of that, not every kid learns the same way. The best teachers are ones that can decipher a kid's learning pattern and adapt to it.

---

OniRonin posted...

if churches don't pay taxes to fund the schools, then people shouldn't learn about them there.

Step 1) To start, this conditional statement has a change in subject. That needs to be addressed.
We can also clarify that "there" is the schools and not the churches.
If churches don't pay taxes to fund the schools, then <churches> shouldn't <be covered> <in schools>.

Step 2) Now we need to substitute so that the statement can be applied to more than just churches.
Let "churches" = "a subject matter"
If <a subject matter> doesn't pay taxes to fund the schools, then <a subject matter> shouldn't be covered in schools.

Step 3) Paying taxes to fund the schools is a means of contributing to school funding. But it's not the only means.
Let "pay taxes to fund the schools" = "contribute to school funding"
If <a subject matter> doesn't contribute to school funding, then <a subject matter> shouldn't be covered in schools.

At this point we can see how the statement applies to various subjects.
If religion doesn't contribute to school funding, then religion shouldn't be covered in schools.
If public parks don't contribute to school funding, then public parks shouldn't be covered in schools.
If athletics don't contribute to school funding, then athletics shouldn't be covered in schools.
If history doesn't contribute to school funding, then history shouldn't be covered in schools.

Are you with me so far?

Step 4) The goal of contributing to school funding is to provide for the continued operation of the school. When a program doesn't provide for the continued operation of the school the program results in a deficit. As such we can modify the statement again.
Let "not contribute to school funding" = "results in a deficit"
If <a subject matter> <results in a deficit>, then <a subject matter> shouldn't be covered in schools.

At this point even if there is some funding resulting from the program, the funding must at least match the operating cost of the program.

Step 5) So what should be in schools? The opposite of a deficit is a net profit.
If <a subject matter> <results in a profit>, then <a subject matter> should be covered in schools.

---

Krow_Incarnate posted...

the board has tried to implement a few things that way. It never works, because the board is out of touch and has their heads up their own asses.

That's an issue that needs to be addressed regardless.

I find that bad teachers haven't a clue how to get any information across in a salient way so should have that autonomy stripped from them, and that's a lot of teachers. You can learn how to learn on your own time, but if the lesson isn't functional in the first place, you're not going to learn shit.

If a solid plan is drawn up, it limits a bad teacher's ability to fuck up the lesson, but a good teacher can assist struggling students individually instead of dumbing it down for a particular few and slowing down the pace of learning for everyone else.
---

Step 2) Now we need to substitute so that the statement can be applied to more than just churches.
Let "churches" = "a subject matter"

churches are a type of organization, not just a subject matter. your substitiutions below should use organizations dedicated to those causes, e.g., 'if historical socities don't X'

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Step 3) Paying taxes to fund the schools is a means of contributing to school funding. But it's not the only means.
Let "pay taxes to fund the schools" = "contribute to school funding"

this might be the dumbest thing ive read on the internet lol.

Step 3) Playing Super Mario Bros 3 is a means of relaxing. But it's not the only means.
Let "Playing Super Mario Bros 3" = "relaxing"
Therefore, relaxing takes about 2 hours if you know where all the warp whistles are

Step 3) Attacking with wurmcoil engine is a means of killing your opponent. But it's not the only means.
Let "attackign with wurmcoil engine" = "killing your oppnent"
Therefore, killing your opponent is a bad idea if they have a 7/7 in play and you don't have any combat tricks

Step 3) Driving a car is a means of transportation. But it's not the only means.
Let "Driving a car" = "transportation"
Therefore, transportation is a good way to get around if you have 4 or fewer people in your party

are you in college yet. please come back after you've taken an elementary logic course


---

LinkPizza posted...

But we still need to learn about it.

why

---

OniRonin posted...

ad hominem. next

You brought up the kid angle, then claimed to be a teenager.

---

OniRonin posted...

why

Read a history book. Religion is an important part of history. Lots of things in history happened because of religion. Or dealt with religion in some way. And it's hard to describe things that happened for an about religion without understanding religion. Plus, religion is more than just what you think religion is. Take the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Gods. Or any culture's God(s). That's religion. And some whole cultures revolve around religion. Not talking about religion as a whole makes talking about the past nearly impossible. Which means nobody can learn anything about history... I may not like history classes, but it is something important to teach...Which is probably why it's one of the core classes you need a certain amount of year for...
---

Lokarin posted...

Nothing wrong with discussing the factually correct things in the bible in class...

...

like that sheep exist.

Like how being vain enough to upload videos of yourself playing games on a YouTube channel, then whoring out said channel is a quality only a piece of shit would have?


---

LinkPizza posted...

Read a history book. Religion is an important part of history. Lots of things in history happened because of religion. Or dealt with religion in some way. And it's hard to describe things that happened for an about religion without understanding religion. Plus, religion is more than just what you think religion is. Take the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Gods. Or any culture's God(s). That's religion. And some whole cultures revolve around religion. Not talking about religion as a whole makes talking about the past nearly impossible. Which means nobody can learn anything about history... I may not like history classes, but it is something important to teach...Which is probably why it's one of the core classes you need a certain amount of year for...

this doenst answer the question i asked

---

OniRonin posted...

this doenst answer the question i asked

How so? You asked why, and I told you why. Its important to history. And then I explained why its important to history. How does that not answer you question?
---

OniRonin posted...

LinkPizza posted...

But we still need to learn about it.

why

SunWuKung420 posted...

I think it's important to learn about and discuss all philosophies, religions and schools thought/beliefs as a form of education. Of course, they should be studied without bias or prejudice, but openly and how they affected/continue to affect the world.

---

LinkPizza posted...

How so? You asked why, and I told you why. Its important to history. And then I explained why its important to history. How does that not answer you question?

please reread what i quoted

---

OniRonin posted...

please reread what i quoted

You quoted my post that read "But we still need to learn about it." You asked "Why". I explained why. You said, "this doenst answer the question i asked", even though it clearly did. I don't need to reread. But maybe you need to clarify your question. If you weren't asking about why we need to learn about religion, than what were you asking about? Because I answered why we need to learn about religion already...
---

rexcrk posted...

Does this apply to Kanga, also?

OniRonin posted...

I don't live with my mom and I don't have any hot wheels. Not everyone is a little kid... I'm not sure why you'd assume I am? I'm actually almost 20.

Lol.

Also Hot Wheels are great collectibles.

---

rexcrk posted...

Does this apply to Kanga, also?

And Quintana

---

Stop feeding this troll

---

Discuss? No discussion is fine. Teaching as fact? Hell yeah it should.

I actually feel theology would be a nice required class so everyone has a understanding of all the major religions. I sat in on a Muslim service at work a few weeks ago and I actually wanna do it more, it was educational. I have no desire to convert but having a better understanding of them cant hurt anything.

---

LinkPizza posted...

Read a history book. Religion is an important part of history. Lots of things in history happened because of religion. Or dealt with religion in some way. And it's hard to describe things that happened for an about religion without understanding religion. Plus, religion is more than just what you think religion is. Take the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Gods. Or any culture's God(s). That's religion. And some whole cultures revolve around religion. Not talking about religion as a whole makes talking about the past nearly impossible. Which means nobody can learn anything about history... I may not like history classes, but it is something important to teach...Which is probably why it's one of the core classes you need a certain amount of year for...

Pretty much every subject has been or is influenced by 'religion' in some way, shape, or form to boot. Even math though that's more historical than not. Let's not forget things that, while they may not be religious, are heavily tied to religion. Like, say, morality which has massive impacts on things like ethics and politics. This is why the destruction of religion is usually core to the progression of dictatorships in any form. Because with religion gone there is nothing to stop the government from decreeing what is and is not true, right/wrong, and so-forth. It also lends itself handily to things like the destruction of cultures and history. You're not 'rewriting history'; you're removing religion from the classroom!

---

mooreandrew58 posted...

Discuss? No discussion is fine. Teaching as fact? Hell yeah it should.

I actually feel theology would be a nice required class so everyone has a understanding of all the major religions. I sat in on a Muslim service at work a few weeks ago and I actually wanna do it more, it was educational. I have no desire to convert but having a better understanding of them cant hurt anything.

Nice idea, but that would offend vested interests, particularly in the US Bible Belt, that depend on the general ignorance of their audience.

---

dancer62 posted...

Nice idea, but that would offend vested interests, particularly in the US Bible Belt, that depend on the general ignorance of their audience.

Oddly enough im from that area.

And they where gonna have it as an elective in highschool but not enough signed up for it.

---

If it was illegal to discuss the Bible or Jesus in the art history class I taught that would leave out a sizable chunk of artwork and historical buildings along with discussing the lives of the artists and what influenced them. But hey, I guess by TC's opening statement all other world religions are OK.

---

LinkPizza posted...

You quoted my post that read "But we still need to learn about it." You asked "Why". I explained why. You said, "this doenst answer the question i asked", even though it clearly did. I don't need to reread. But maybe you need to clarify your question. If you weren't asking about why we need to learn about religion, than what were you asking about? Because I answered why we need to learn about religion already...

please look at where i grabbed the quote from in your post. or just stop being a troll honestly

---

OniRonin posted...

please look at where i grabbed the quote from in your post. or just stop being a troll honestly

Firstly, you have no room to call anyone a troll if you are one. Especially when Im not one.

Second, maybe if you took more than a sentence, people would know what youre talking/asking about. So, my point about clarifying yourself still stands.

And third, are you seriously asking why we need to learn about history? As in one of the core classes... The same reason we have to learn about science, math, and English. And if youre really asking why we need to learn about history, you have no right at all to say what children should and shouldnt learn in school.
---

Firstly, you have no room to call anyone a troll if you are one. Especially when Im not one.

ad hom

Second, maybe if you took more than a sentence, people would know what youre talking/asking about. So, my point about clarifying yourself still stands.

fair enough i could have been more clear. i was irritated at the other times when you and other people in this topic seemed like you were deliberately misinterpreting me

LinkPizza posted...

And third, are you seriously asking why we need to learn about history? As in one of the core classes... The same reason we have to learn about science, math, and English. And if youre really asking why we need to learn about history, you have no right at all to say what children should and shouldnt learn in school.

circular/ appeal to common sense

---

It should be illegal to carry condoms in your wallet too.

---

Happy belated birthday.

---

KJ StErOiDs posted...

Happy belated birthday.

thanks buddy, merry christmas

---

OniRonin posted...

ad hom

Not really, as that was directed at you, and not the argument.

OniRonin posted...

fair enough i could have been more clear. i was irritated at the other times when you and other people in this topic seemed like you were deliberately misinterpreting me

All I had was a sentence to go on. So, that makes it hard if theres no other context...

OniRonin posted...

circular/ appeal to common sense

What do you mean by this?
---

LinkPizza posted...

What do you mean by this?

your reason for why we should teach history is 'everyone knows why we should teach history. it's the same reason we have to teach these other unrelated things. if you're asking why, your opinion doesn't matter'

i would like you to actually back up what you're saying instead of just claiming everybody knows x or its common sense

---

OniRonin posted...

your reason for why we should teach history is 'everyone knows why we should teach history. it's the same reason we have to teach these other unrelated things. if you're asking why, your opinion doesn't matter'

i would like you to actually back up what you're saying instead of just claiming everybody knows x or its common sense

No. The reason is its important to learn are many. Like how you cant move toward the future without knowing the past. And learning from the mistakes of the past. And learning why we dont do things in certain ways. Like learning how and why countries have grown and fallen before. And in the end, it was decided on as a course for children to learn about. And most people seem to trust them more than a random person on the internet saying they we shouldnt learn history because youre scared of people finding out religion exist. History is as important as the other classes people learning school whether you believe or pretend not to... Or do you have a legitimate reason they shouldnt learn any history? Because if anyone actually did, they would probably stop teaching history in schools, which seems to be what you want...
---

LinkPizza posted...

Like how you cant move toward the future without knowing the past.

this is false. I am always moving toward the future, regardless of whether I know about the past. please state what you mean more clearly instead of using vague platitudes.

And learning from the mistakes of the past. And learning why we dont do things in certain ways. Like learning how and why countries have grown and fallen before.

do you have any evidence that this is useful. anyone can use history selectively to prove any point they want. just look at how communism is demonized in the west for example.

And in the end, it was decided on as a course for children to learn about. And most people seem to trust them more than a random person on the internet saying they we shouldnt learn history because youre scared of people finding out religion exist.

appeal to authority

History is as important as the other classes people learning school whether you believe or pretend not to...

you're just restating your claim. why do you do this so much? just make arguments for it instead of saying it again.

Or do you have a legitimate reason they shouldnt learn any history? Because if anyone actually did, they would probably stop teaching history in schools, which seems to be what you want...

I think it's perfectly acceptable to teach history in school or to not teach history in school. I have no preference one way or the other. you seem to have a strong preference that history is taught in school so im trying to understand why


---

OniRonin posted...

this is false. I am always moving toward the future, regardless of whether I know about the past. please state what you mean more clearly instead of using vague platitudes.

And when you make the same mistakes youve made in the past and get no where, youll know why. Also, it could be youre not important enough. We making breakthroughs or new scientific discoveries, people need to know the past. They need to know whats been tried or looked at already. You can say you discovered something new all you want, but history may show it was already discovered. So, while you may not need the past to move forward, most of the world does.

OniRonin posted...

do you have any evidence that this is useful. anyone can use history selectively to prove any point they want. just look at how communism is demonized in the west for example.

You can. And you can see what worked out and what didnt in the short and long term. Its very useful to understand what happens when you do something, and why it happened. Ots kind of like science in that way. Basically, it can show you why countries have fallen or failed even though the what you want to do seems like a good idea. Again, maybe not important to you. But youre also just a child who has no say over anything. To someone in a position of power, understanding the mistakes of the past is usually good knowledge...

OniRonin posted...

appeal to authority

More like listening to authority. They have to learn those subjects. And somehow, they decided that those subjects were the ones that were important to learn. Just because you dont think so means nothing to anyone. People who am experts on the matter (as much as any can be) have decided what people need to learn in school to grow up to function as an adult. Or what people should be learning...

OniRonin posted...

you're just restating your claim. why do you do this so much? just make arguments for it instead of saying it again.

I dont get what youre saying, but whatever...

OniRonin posted...

I think it's perfectly acceptable to teach history in school or to not teach history in school. I have no preference one way or the other. you seem to have a strong preference that history is taught in school so im trying to understand why

Because it was decided that its important by experts. And as I said, you need to know the past and learn from it. One reason is to not make the same mistakes. And for us to grow as a nation. And so far, it seems to be working out... If you have no preference, then why do you sound so against it?
---

LinkPizza posted...

Because it was decided that its important by experts.

you are impossible to reason with lol. you cannot just say 'this is good because experts said so'

---

OniRonin posted...

you are impossible to reason with lol. you cannot just say 'this is good because experts said so'

How about you successfully discredit the expert if you want to argue.
---

OniRonin posted...

you are impossible to reason with lol. you cannot just say 'this is good because experts said so'

Who should we believe if not the experts? Or do you have a reason to not trust the people who know this stuff? Should I not trust my doctor (the expert) when I want medical advice? Should I listen to you instead because your moms best friends uncle had the same issues? No. Id trust the doctors because theyre experts in their field. Like Kyuubi4269 said, if you want to argue against the experts claims, then discredit them. Otherwise, its just you saying that it should be a certain way because you said so...
---

Besides TC, you know what other group of people hasn't learned from history, Trump supporters.

---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

How about you successfully discredit the expert if you want to argue.

appeal to authority

LinkPizza posted...

Who should we believe if not the experts? Or do you have a reason to not trust the people who know this stuff? Should I not trust my doctor (the expert) when I want medical advice? Should I listen to you instead because your moms best friends uncle had the same issues? No. Id trust the doctors because theyre experts in their field. Like Kyuubi4269 said, if you want to argue against the experts claims, then discredit them. Otherwise, its just you saying that it should be a certain way because you said so...

appeal to authority

SunWuKung420 posted...

Besides TC, you know what other group of people hasn't learned from history, Trump supporters.

ad hominem

---

OniRonin posted...

appeal to authority

So, no argument? Got it!
---

LinkPizza posted...

So, no argument? Got it!

my dad told me your argument is wrong. thats my argument and its just as valid as yours

---

OniRonin posted...

my dad told me your argument is wrong. thats my argument and its just as valid as yours

Except you dad's not an expert. Or so you have proof that he is? And you can say "appeal to authority" all you want. It doesn't work in every situation. Again, it's just you trying to say you're right just because you don't want to be wrong. And I still haven't heard any logical reason history shouldn't be taught in school... Do you not have one?
---

LinkPizza posted...

Except you dad's not an expert. Or so you have proof that he is? And you can say "appeal to authority" all you want. It doesn't work in every situation. Again, it's just you trying to say you're right just because you don't want to be wrong. And I still haven't heard any logical reason history shouldn't be taught in school... Do you not have one?

my dad is an expert

---

OniRonin posted...

my dad is an expert

Like I said above, do you have proof?
---

LinkPizza posted...

Like I said above, do you have proof?

yes. my grandad told me

---

OniRonin posted...

actually youre the one who doesn't appear halfyway intelligent

Ouch lmfao

---

OniRonin posted...

yes. my grandad told me

So, no? I see...
---

LinkPizza posted...

So, no? I see...

it is just as strong as your argument. who determined who your experts are?

---

OniRonin posted...

it is just as strong as your argument. who determined who your experts are?

The ones who determine what kids study in school. The ones that schools all over the country listen to and trust with this decision. Those experts... Which is a much stronger argument than My dad said so or Because I said so like in your case...
---

LinkPizza posted...

The ones who determine what kids study in school. The ones that schools all over the country listen to and trust with this decision. Those experts... Which is a much stronger argument than My dad said so or Because I said so like in your case...

You are arguing with someone who thinks it should be illegal to discuss jesus or the bible in the class roo. Just keep that in mind.

---

myghostisdead posted...

You are arguing with someone who thinks it should be illegal to discuss jesus or the bible in the class roo. Just keep that in mind.

Yeah. Thats true...
---

LinkPizza posted...

The ones who determine what kids study in school. The ones that schools all over the country listen to and trust with this decision. Those experts... Which is a much stronger argument than My dad said so or Because I said so like in your case...

lets just be clear. you think
"some other experts said my experts were experts"
is a better argument than
"my grandad's an expert and he says my dad is an expert"

...
please come back when you get to college buddy

---