Current Events > Are millennials struggling because poor work ethic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

JustMyOpinion posted...

Hey, I'm trying to answer your original question. And my original assertion that the graph in no way points to anything helpful with conclusions regarding laziness is no less true. Not my fault you have no idea how a regression works. Maybe stop speaking on things you know nothing about.

And to bring it back around, the answer isn't laziness. Now please stop taking us off topic with your shitposting.

"I started a tangent, then threw shade, now quit your 'shitposting' of explaining the ways the claim I made in my tangent is wrong"

lol k

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JustMyOpinion posted...

I explained to you how your original post how nothing to do with your topic title. Get over it.

You didn't "explain" anything. You just insisted.

I actually took the time to articulate my point, you just kept doing the same pithy "lol I bet u didn't take the same math classes I dun took"

Really simple

1. The chart gives data relevant to institutionalized bias
2. If institutionalized bias is the explanation for the wealth gap then laziness cannot be an explanation for the wealth gap
3. So insofar as the chart is relevant to institutionalized bias it is relevant to laziness as an explanation to the wealth gap.

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Millennials are working the same jobs now that older generations worked, but are getting paid less for it.

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Mostly

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

I know when I was managing at a pizza shop it sure as hell was the reason.

Were you ever going to give a raise that mattered at a pizza shop though?

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ScazarMeltex posted...

Worker productivity has skyrocketed in the last 10-15 years but wages have remained stagnant. Why should I should work harder than I absolutely have to keep my job. Want me to work harder? Pay me more. Don't feed me the line about "well if you work harder you might get a raise". It doesn't work like that, i'm not going to do pro bono shit in the hopes that I may get the money I deserve out of it. You want extra, pay extra.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Worker productivity has skyrocketed in the last 10-15 years but wages have remained stagnant. Why should I should work harder than I absolutely have to keep my job. Want me to work harder? Pay me more. Don't feed me the line about "well if you work harder you might get a raise". It doesn't work like that, i'm not going to do pro bono shit in the hopes that I may get the money I deserve out of it. You want extra, pay extra.

This is a backwards and self destructive attitude. You earn more by working hard and selling your skills and taking calculated risks. Not by waiting to get paid more before you've earned it. Ridiculous.

Not too late to change this view. You can still build something for yourself.

JustMyOpinion posted...

The graph doesn't bear out institutional bias either in a meaningful way. Just stop. Such bias seems likely, but not based on a graph showing wealth by age by generation. You're leaping to conclusions based on crap data.

I didn't ever say the graph proved anything, but I think it's false to claim evidence of profound wealth gaps is not suggestive of institutional bias.

Also just stop with the just stop. Either you are truly above talking with a lowly commoner who you assume isn't as statistically educated as your greatness or you are not. Pick one and own it.

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I don't think it's as simple as poor work ethic. We don't live in the same economic world that the previous generations did.

Millenials are struggling because of policies and systems enacted and entrenched by the Baby Boomer generation.

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No.

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dolomedes posted...

sometimes you do. not always.

FYI: that's proudclad

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Shablagoo posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_economic_miracle#Steady_increasing_stage_(1973%E2%80%931992%29

1973 is about the time the rest of the world crawled out of the smoldering crater left by WW2.

dolomedes posted...

it isn't poor work ethic. anyone who says it is is wrong.

We live in a more open, globalized world. It's not surprising that this generation would have a harder time competing and negotiating for higher salaries.

That's a big reason why I'd like to see immigration reduced substantially. I don't want to bring in people from foreign countries to work jobs at lower wages or to take spots at colleges that could go to US citizens.

I'd like to see reduced immigration rates and increased public funding for education in trades and tech fields for capable citizens.

JustMyOpinion posted...

It could be suggestive of many things based on the graph alone.

That's close enough to what I was saying that I'm good leaving it there

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Questionmarktarius posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_economic_miracle#Steady_increasing_stage_(1973%E2%80%931992%29

1973 is about the time the rest of the world crawled out of the smoldering crater left by WW2.

Yeah I feel like it's mostly stuff like this that's to blame.

Do you know how productivity is measured? I am curious about this

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joe40001 posted...

Do you know how productivity is measured? I am curious about this

https://www.bls.gov/lpc/faqs.htm

Questionmarktarius posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_economic_miracle#Steady_increasing_stage_(1973%E2%80%931992%29

1973 is about the time the rest of the world crawled out of the smoldering crater left by WW2.

Ok, and? (Sincerely.)

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Questionmarktarius posted...

https://www.bls.gov/lpc/faqs.htm

Thanks for the link. It's still kinda unclear for me... I wish they had an example.Like "if it takes 10 bananas to make 10 oranges and oranges are worth twice as much as bananas then the productivity is 200% because the input to output is doubling in value".

But that gets really weird when human man hours are factored in because their productivity would seemingly be defined by what they are paid per hour, which then couldn't be made as a separate variable in graphs.

:/

Well if anybody here has a super intuitive understanding of how productivity is measured and can sum it up in an example I'd value that, if not I'll just be quiet about that part.

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Shablagoo posted...

Ok, and? (Sincerely.)

Your "worth" to an employer is based on the costs of replacing you, be it by a machine, a younger person willing to work for less, or someone in Bangladesh or Mexico who will work for much less.

The math was a bit different when the US and Canada were about the only relevant nations not bombed to shit in the 40s.

Loud_Pipes posted...

You earn more by working hard and selling your skills and taking calculated risks.

you earn more by changing jobs. repeatedly, and with an aggressive attitude towards salary negotiation.


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Questionmarktarius posted...

Your "worth" to an employer is based on the costs of replacing you, be it by a machine, a younger person willing to work for less, or someone in Bangladesh or Mexico who will work for much less.

The math was a bit different when the US and Canada were about the only relevant nations not bombed to shit in the 40s.

Which to me is a problem. Improved technology should benefit workers, not put them out on the streets.

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One thing is that a lot of building wealth is buying assets. If you rent instead of paying mortgage, like your parents did, you won't build wealth. If you find excuses for little luxuries that aren't necessities, you don't build wealth (ask your grandparents if they spent a lot to go out or eat out all the time, or if they cooked at home and got years of entertainment from a deck of playing cards.) If the only assets you buy are stuff like a tablet that loses all value in 2 years, you don't build wealth. There's little unfair here. Past generations spent on things the hold value, younger ones fight that.

As for increased productivity, it also makes work redundant. The old joke was kids today couldn't make change if the computer till went down, and that was 25 years ago. Now in the debit card age it probably doesn't even com up that often, so jobs that once held a need for skill, now become "pass objects over a scanner and read the screen". It's not like you are personally doing your job better. A high priced toy makes you more productive so why do you get the money, not they guy that paid for the toy.

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Boomers had factory work and a very competitive market.

Millenials have Chipotle and the entire world is essentially owned by 5 companies.

Gee.

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lightwarrior78 posted...

One thing is that a lot of building wealth is buying assets. If you rent instead of paying mortgage, like your parents did, you won't build wealth. If you find excuses for little luxuries that aren't necessities, you don't build wealth (ask your grandparents if they spent a lot to go out or eat out all the time, or if they cooked at home and got years of entertainment from a deck of playing cards.) If the only assets you buy are stuff like a tablet that loses all value in 2 years, you don't build wealth. There's little unfair here. Past generations spent on things the hold value, younger ones fight that.

this is the "stop buying avocado toast if you want to own a home" reasoning that people were (rightly) ridiculing like 2 years ago

lightwarrior78 posted...

It's not like you are personally doing your job better. A high priced toy makes you more productive so why do you get the money, not they guy that paid for the toy.

because improvements in technology should benefit the people doing the work

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lightwarrior78 posted...

If you rent instead of paying mortgage, like your parents did, you won't build wealth.

honestly i think this is a lot less true today than it used to be

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fun fact, people used to eat out a lot more because the costs of cooking and keeping food unspoilt were high before we had modern technology and building codes

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What the fuck does that graph in the op have to do with the topic title

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24 y/o making 75k a year here suck it

averagejoel posted...

this is the "stop buying avocado toast if you want to own a home" reasoning that people were (rightly) ridiculing like 2 years ago

Has it occurred to you that not taking given advice given because you don't want to may be more at fault than anything else? Yeah it sucks, but there's a reason I earn less than a lot of my family (barely $40,000 a year), but have savings, investments, paid my home off, and no debt.

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They are too inpatient. Thats their biggest problem

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lightwarrior78 posted...

Has it occurred to you that not taking given advice given because you don't want to may be more at fault than anything else? Yeah it sucks, but there's a reason I earn less than a lot of my family (barely $40,000 a year), but have savings, investments, paid my home off, and no debt.

lmao

L
M
A
O

lmao

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averagejoel posted...

this is the "stop buying avocado toast if you want to own a home" reasoning that people were (rightly) ridiculing like 2 years ago

It's silly to think one simple change like that will amount to all your hopes and dreams but you would be surprised how quickly stuff like that adds up tbh. I mean, you can save hundreds a month just by packing a lunch.

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lightwarrior78 posted...

Has it occurred to you that not taking given advice given because you don't want to may be more at fault than anything else?

obviously. wealthy people and old people are constantly trying to convince me (and many others) of this idea. it's false regardless of whether or not I've considered it though.

lightwarrior78 posted...

Yeah it sucks, but there's a reason I earn less than a lot of my family (barely $40,000 a year), but have savings, investments, paid my home off, and no debt.

the problem is at the systemic level. you are treating it like a problem at the individual level. stop doing that.

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DevsBro posted...

It's silly to think one simple change like that will amount to all your hopes and dreams but you would be surprised how quickly stuff like that adds up tbh. I mean, you can save hundreds a month just by packing a lunch.

I'm aware. thank you for your input. go bother someone else now

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That has to be one of the worst graphs I've ever seen

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averagejoel posted...

I'm aware. thank you for your input. go bother someone else now

Ha

I'm not saying stop the crusade or anything but might as well approach it from the other flank too.

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joe40001 posted...

Some young people are entitled, but I hardly think the previous 2 generations were paragons of perfect employees. Am I wrong?

Paragons of perfect employees? Who is even saying that?

That kind of hyperbole seems common nowadays, along with playing the Oppression Olympics.

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DevsBro posted...

It's silly to think one simple change like that will amount to all your hopes and dreams but you would be surprised how quickly stuff like that adds up tbh. I mean, you can save hundreds a month just by packing a lunch.

It's true. No matter your income not buying luxuries can help you save money. But dont bother with joell. He'll dismiss what he doesn't like to hear and continue to pine that millennials are the only disadvantaged generation in the last century and accept no individual responsibility.

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Fuck man if I hadnt bought that $3 avocado toast one time this month I could have paid that $950 ambulance bill and afforded the $100 rent increase my landlord just imposed on me out of nowhere after living here for a year. Wtf is wrong with me?


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There is exponentially more job competition than there was when the boomers were in their 20s and 30s. There are way more people in the country and thats a fact.

When a business is struggling to fill a position, the job candidates have more leverage over what they get paid. When there are dozens or hundreds of applicants, youre competing with whichever person promises to do the work for the cheapest.

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thanosibe posted...

But dont bother with joell. He'll dismiss what he doesn't like to hear and continue to pine that millennials are the only disadvantaged generation in the last century and accept no individual responsibility.

please do not lie about me

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averagejoel posted...

please do not lie

Asking this of them is like carrying water to the sea.

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