Current Events > In dating terms, when should a transgender person reveal that

(+) Yeah! (+)

thanosibe posted...

But much like say, vegans, it's probably best to take the initiative to inform people before someone puts a plate of BBQ in front of you when you go somewhere to eat.

No, that's offensive according to people here. It's on you to alert everyone else that you eat meat. That's your burden for having a certain diet.

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The principal of it? Which principal is that? What school do they work at? You sure spent a lot of time arguing in favor of something you now claim not to believe.

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Funniest thing about this whole silly argument is Ive rarely met a trans person who isnt upfront anyway. I had brief sex with one post-op trans woman and she stopped it I think because she felt guilty because of the views of people like viewmaster and texted me later asking if I was aware she is trans.

The couple other trans women whose numbers Ive asked for always texted me about it pretty early on in our conversation.

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Eviora posted...

You sure spent a lot of time arguing in favor of something you now claim not to believe.

I never said I didn't believe in my opinion, I said I don't believe I'll be in a position where any of this actually comes into play.

Like I said, I'm really about done arguing in circles.

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I dunno, it seems like you're still arguing in circles. That's the second time you've said you're done arguing in circles.

And, yes, Shablagoo, many transgender women don't want to hide the fact that they're trans from people they're close to. I imagine they don't want to burden themselves with something else to hide. I just find it hilarious that people feel transgender women are obligated to come out to near-strangers the second those strangers start drooling over them.

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Eviora posted...

And, yes, Shablagoo, many transgender women don't want to hide the fact that they're trans from people they're close to. I imagine they don't want to burden themselves with something else to hide. I just find it hilarious that people feel transgender women are obligated to come out to near-strangers the second those strangers start drooling over them.

Yeah I agree. It seems like its just an excuse to justify expressing their transphobia. The only thing we can really hope is that the users here expressing such arent the types to get violent when a trans person doesnt live up to their imagined code of how trans people should behave.

I felt bad because she neednt have worried about me being turned off or reacting negatively.

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"I don't want to start a relationship without knowing about dealbreakers up front"

*only demands that less than 1% of women take themselves out of the running at first breath*

It sure sounds like people are more worried about "sleeping with a man" than they are about fertility or finding the perfect mate through efficient self-reporting.

Again, the only way to obligate a trans person to do this would be to legally require it of them, which gets into some really fucking questionable territory. They don't have AIDs. They aren't sexual predators. I imagine most would spill the beans if things heat up anyway.

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hockeybub89 posted...

They don't have AIDs.

I agree with your post but this is kind of outdated, to force AIDS patients to disclose. And its not legally required in all areas. If youre undetectable you cant transmit the virus, so forcing people with HIV/AIDS to disclose just unnecessarily amplifies the stigma.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

Tbh it's no different than anything else. If you have a kid, I wanna know up front. If you're fucking around with your ex and don't want something serious, I wanna know. If you're polyamorous, a furry, christian, a harry potter fan, if you vape, drink white claw, these are things I don't want to be hit with late if I start thinking I want to be closer.

Lol


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From the get-go.

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Vicious_Dios posted...

From the get-go.

"Hi, I'm Greg. And you are?"

"Hi, I'm Stacey. And I have a penis."

"Peace!"

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that conversation is why it's heartbreaking to be transgender. luckily life isn't just heartbreaking moments.

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this whole topic is a giant shitshow

I mean, it's fairly obvious that a certain frequent user in here doesn't have an argument, it's all just transphobia and making up state off the top of his head to justify his views. He can't even say why he feels that way. Such an immature and vile way to live.

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As soon as possible.

Shablagoo posted...

Funniest thing about this whole silly argument is Ive rarely met a trans person who isnt upfront anyway. I had brief sex with one post-op trans woman and she stopped it I think because she felt guilty because of the views of people like viewmaster and texted me later asking if I was aware she is trans.

To be clear, are you saying "trans people are usually upfront" and also "there was this one time that a trans person had sex with me before telling me they were trans". Because if so those 2 statements kinda disagree with each other.


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@ post 214, great popcorn though.

@gunplagirl did yourself delete post 215 or did it get modded?

before they meet if its online, and if its a blind date, obviously first date, and within the first 5 minutes

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CarrieChan posted...

@ post 214, great popcorn though.

@gunplagirl did yourself delete post 215 or did it get modded?

I'm not warned which is what happens any time I get modded other than a topic of mine getting locked.

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Whenever it feels appropriate, before any physical intimacy.

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gunplagirl posted...

I'm not warned which is what happens any time I get modded other than a topic of mine getting locked.

Mods like to jump straight to warnings, even on a clean history eh?

This popped into my head immediately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yehbR0bwZI

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joe40001 posted...

To be clear, are you saying "trans people are usually upfront" and also "there was this one time that a trans person had sex with me before telling me they were trans". Because if so those 2 statements kinda disagree with each other.

I mean, do you know what usually means? or

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I think for most dating it would come out at an early and appropriate time, I think they only possible issues would be hookups that happen at a bar or maybe party that kinda move fast. So you could in theory be making out with somebody before knowing they were born biologically male. And if that is not something you are comfortable with that could be a problem.

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^Yeah the same way it could be a problem for that womans boyfriend if he found out shed been with a black guy before. It could be a problem only for a bigot.

If youre making out with someone, odds are youre attracted to them.

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pistachio12 posted...

For you, maybe they don't seem comparable. But I'm sure plenty of women and men would like to know if the person they're talking to is a dick upfront.

And if you read into that statement that you're the dick, that's on you.

You act as if people don't already flat out reject others if they're not interested in dating.

But if you're talking about them being interested but that their personality sucks, you act as if people have enough awareness to know and acknowledge that they are dicks. Why do you think there exists the phenomenon of people thinking they know more than they actually do? Because people suck at judging themselves.

Meanwhile, transgender people who dress/adopt the opposite gender already realize that they are transgender.

Shablagoo posted...

^Yeah the same way it could be a problem for that womans boyfriend if he found out shed been with a black guy before. It could be a problem only for a bigot.

If youre making out with someone, odds are youre attracted to them.

If you are attracted to somebody is not the only factor to if you consent to have physical/sexual interaction with them.

You are not a bigot based on your sexual preferences. If you do not want to have any sexual interaction with people with the same biological birth sex as you that is your right and it does not make you a bigot.

You are also not a bigot if you do not want to date people of a certain race. You are only intolerant if you suggest this race is inferior or worse. But a person is totally free to have whatever preferences they have.

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Honestly joe, I just today learned of this term, concern trolling

https://www.bustle.com/articles/144447-what-is-concern-trolling-watch-out-for-this-subtle-form-of-shaming

and frankly it was revelatory for me in regards to your posting style. This is all Ive seen you do on GFAQs, frankly.

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Shablagoo posted...

Honestly joe, I just today learned of this term, concern trolling

https://www.bustle.com/articles/144447-what-is-concern-trolling-watch-out-for-this-subtle-form-of-shaming

and frankly it was revelatory for me in regards to your posting style. This is all Ive seen you do on GFAQs, frankly.

If inventing a label for people you disagree with makes it easier for you to dismiss them, that is on you for choosing to act that way.

I always try to communicate in good faith, I believe you claim to do the same, but applying labels to people (ostensibly to more easily dismiss them and their arguments) would be evidence against that.

If you would like to disagree with my previous point that it isn't bigoted or intolerant to have any sexual preferences you are welcome to. I can't stop you from citing online American women's magazine's in disagreements, but unless you fully articulate your point (i.e. "you are a concern troll and that's why what you are saying is wrong or doesn't matter") I don't know how productive such a strategy will be.

I'd much prefer good faith discussions.

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I didnt invent any term, I told you I learned it. It also has an entry on dictionary.com.

Look, on a day when a trans woman was strangled to death after her date found out she was trans

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78266182

it just seems in pretty poor taste to argue that theres nothing wrong with these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans.

Concern trolling is all Ive seen from you. The article I linked doesnt even suggest you are necessarily communicating in bad faith:

Interestingly, the Geek Feminism Wikia notes that "concern trolls are not always self-aware; they may also view themselves as potential allies who have just, oddly, never met a feminist opinion they liked."

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Considering that most people are not comfortable with this, the onus is on the trans person to reveal it as soon as they can. I don't know what reality some of you live in, but most do this right away.

If I was trans, I would never want to even give some one not comfortable with me a chance. This "hopefully I charm the person enough that the person looks past it" is outdated BS from the past.

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it's usually best to not engage people who would rather try to manipulate your emotions instead of engage you with integrity and intelligence.

Right, Left... doesn't matter. many people find it acceptable to be dishonest and manipulative in order to push their rhetoric and ideologies.

it's a shame to be fighting a battle for so long that you adopt your enemy's tactics and basically become what you claimed to hate.
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it's always pleasant to see pictures of happy men with transgender women. i mention it because sometimes men have a glow on camera.

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Shablagoo posted...

I didnt invent any term, I told you I learned it. It also has an entry on dictionary.com.

Look, on a day when a trans woman was strangled to death after her date found out she was trans

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78266182

it just seems in pretty poor taste to argue that theres nothing wrong with these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans.

Concern trolling is all Ive seen from you. The article I linked doesnt even suggest you are necessarily communicating in bad faith:

Interestingly, the Geek Feminism Wikia notes that "concern trolls are not always self-aware; they may also view themselves as potential allies who have just, oddly, never met a feminist opinion they liked."

You invented it as a label for me. I've never said "hey I'm not honestly saying these things, I'm 'concern trolling'"

I question the need to label me and interact with me as a label and not as an individual.

"it just seems in pretty poor taste to argue that theres nothing wrong with these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans."

Let's unpack this premise you are suggesting:
Guy who strangles trans person = these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans = anybody who would not want to date a trans person

You never explicitly made that suggestion, but your language completely made that suggestion. So please clarify if you are indeed making that suggestion that the 3 groups of people are largely equivalent or not. Because I certainly don't believe they are. Please answer this question first.

Secondly what do you mean by "bullshit machismo"? Is there a way a man could value or care about his masculinity that you would not find to be bullshit?

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If you are on a dating app, then its something that should be revealed before meeting in person, if it isnt already in your profile

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joe40001 posted...

Secondly what do you mean by "bulls*** machismo"? Is there a way a man could value or care about his masculinity that you would not find to be bulls***?

Lol, posting every day on GFAQs about how youd never ever ever ever have sex with a trans woman is the sort of masculinity that Im meant to respect? Sorry, just doesnt seem like the ideal male role model.

Learn a new word today, joe, machismo is associated with negative characteristics, such as sexism, misogyny, chauvinism, hypermasculinity, and hegemonic masculinity. Scholars characterize macho men as violent, rude, womanizing, and prone to alcoholism. Authors from a various disciplines typify macho men as domineering through intimidation, seducing and controlling women and children through violence and intimidation.

I didnt say masculinity was bad, I said the aggressive, overcompensating-for-something kind that leads one to murder women is bad.

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If online dating apps, it should be mentioned in their profile

If irl, as soon as any flirting commences in the friendship it needs to be casually mentioned somehow

If its in da club or whatever, you shouldnt be doing any one night stands or hookups unless its a transgender/LGBT specific club

toyota posted...

If online dating apps, it should be mentioned in their profile

If irl, as soon as any flirting commences in the friendship it needs to be casually mentioned somehow

If its in da club or whatever, you shouldnt be doing any one night stands or hookups unless its a transgender/LGBT specific club

Separate yet equal? Gosh, where have I heard that bullshit before?

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There's realy no right answer, but any time before things start getting intimate is probably for the best.

Shablagoo posted...

Lol, posting every day on GFAQs about how youd never ever ever ever have sex with a trans woman is the sort of masculinity that Im meant to respect? Sorry, just doesnt seem like the ideal male role model.

Learn a new word today, joe, machismo is associated with negative characteristics, such as sexism, misogyny, chauvinism, hypermasculinity, and hegemonic masculinity. Scholars characterize macho men as violent, rude, womanizing, and prone to alcoholism. Authors from a various disciplines typify macho men as domineering through intimidation, seducing and controlling women and children through violence and intimidation.

I didnt say masculinity was bad, I said the aggressive, overcompensating-for-something kind that leads one to murder women is bad.

Few things, firstly you completely ignored the question I asked before:

joe40001 posted...

"it just seems in pretty poor taste to argue that theres nothing wrong with these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans."

Let's unpack this premise you are suggesting:
Guy who strangles trans person = these dudes who are this fucking caught up in their bullshit machismo that they spend all day every day on a video game forum expressing how mortified theyd be to find out their date was trans = anybody who would not want to date a trans person

You never explicitly made that suggestion, but your language completely made that suggestion. So please clarify if you are indeed making that suggestion that the 3 groups of people are largely equivalent or not. Because I certainly don't believe they are. Please answer this question first.

Secondly who is "posting every day on GFAQs about how youd never ever ever ever have sex with a trans woman"?

Thirdly, "machismo: a strong sense of masculine pride : an exaggerated masculinity" This is not the same thing as "sexism, misogyny, chauvinism, and hegemonic masculinity" You could make an argument that machismo is the same thing as hypermasculinity but you would then have to demonstrate that is a bad thing.

I'm not saying "being macho" is good, but I don't think it warrants you constant overt conflation with violent criminals.

Fourth and finally, while i do not think very well of your opinion at all, I have shown you the respect to not talk down to you, phrases like "learn a new word today" are needlessly condescending, please refrain from them if you want to have good faith discussions.

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a lot of people convince themselves of wanting genuine conversation about "real life," but you see the energy shift when somebody who doesn't share their ideology joins the conversation.

when somebody doesn't want to have a real conversation with you, they start using labels, ad hominem and other things to paint you as a villain so they can feel justified in attacking you with a heart full of righteous indignation.

when one prides themselves as being "smart and sensible," it's more difficult for them to be dismissive of a well thought out argument from opponents without that "smart and sensible" image looking like yet another farce. but the internet is full of people who are full of shit, lol. get them in their feelings and the real them comes out.

no sense in expecting a real conversation on GameFAQs though. unless it's a one on one via PM.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

a lot of people convince themselves of wanting genuine conversation about "real life," but you see the energy shift when somebody who doesn't share their ideology joins the conversation.

when somebody doesn't want to have a real conversation with you, they start using labels, ad hominem and other things to paint you as a villain so they can feel justified in attacking you with a heart full of righteous indignation.

when one prides themselves as being "smart and sensible," it's more difficult for them to be dismissive of a well thought out argument from opponents without that "smart and sensible" image looking like yet another farce. but the internet is full of people who are full of shit, lol. get them in their feelings and the real them comes out.

no sense in expecting a real conversation on GameFAQs though. unless it's a one on one via PM.

I've had conversations that have started dicey end in a productive amicable place, it's not super common, but I think so long as somebody tries to talk in good faith it's worth it to try.

But I do hear what you are saying and acknowledge sometimes some people just won't talk in good faith.

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Are you all still taking this bait topic seriously..?

You really want to get this shit to 500 so the TC can take pride in pulling your strings? lmao

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This topic is still going? I wonder if its because people cant stop spewing their distaste for trans people, oh look it is what a surprise never expected such a thing on CE.

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the good faith part is what makes or breaks the conversation. I've noticed that regardless of the political alignment, the lowest of the groups always have very similar mannerisms and "problem solving" skills.

I don't know if it's a form of self hate to attack people who share one's own flaws, or if it's just groups battling for the privilege to be treated better than the next. but self awareness goes a long way.
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EzeDoesIt posted...

This topic is still going? I wonder if its because people cant stop spewing their distaste for trans people, oh look it is what a surprise never expected such a thing on CE.

Shut the fuck up

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EzeDoesIt posted...

This topic is still going? I wonder if its because people cant stop spewing their distaste for trans people, oh look it is what a surprise never expected such a thing on CE.

Much like being anti-gay or racist, being anti-trans is a sign of low intelligence

joe40001 posted...

Few things, firstly you completely ignored the question I asked before:

Im not saying theyre the same, Im saying its a frightening attitude that is what causes actual real-world anti-trans violence to occur.

Im not trying to be hyperbolic, Im just saying hate crimes against trans folk happen (as in the recent murder I linked) and they come from that mindset. Thus I think the mindset in itself is worth criticizing.

I dont think youre transphobic if you arent attracted to trans people. On the other hand it seems...weird...to claim to be attracted to a post-op trans woman and then all of a sudden claim not to be when you find out she transitioned. But, its not a crime or wrong to no longer be interested in her.

Secondly who is "posting every day on GFAQs about how youd never ever ever ever have sex with a trans woman"?

Not you, if thats how it sounded. I havent collected extensive data but there definitely seems to be a cadre of users here that pops up whenever a topic about transgender people pops up. I think others could vouch for me on that claim.

I'm not saying "being macho" is good, but I don't think it warrants you constant overt conflation with violent criminals.

True, I think I pretty much addressed this above.

Fourth and finally, while i do not think very well of your opinion at all, I have shown you the respect to not talk down to you, phrases like "learn a new word today" are needlessly condescending, please refrain from them if you want to have good faith discussions.

To be fair you have accused me of acting in bad faith, and given that I specified machismo rather than generic masculinity I took it as you trying to twist my words, and then ask a leading question suggesting I am against men or something.

But youre right, and I apologize.

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Shablagoo posted...

Im not saying theyre the same, Im saying its a frightening attitude that is what causes actual real-world anti-trans violence to occur.

Im not trying to be hyperbolic, Im just saying hate crimes against trans folk happen (as in the recent murder I linked) and they come from that mindset. Thus I think the mindset in itself is worth criticizing.

I dont think youre transphobic if you arent attracted to trans people. On the other hand it seems...weird...to claim to be attracted to a post-op trans woman and then all of a sudden claim not to be when you find out she transitioned. But, its not a crime or wrong to no longer be interested in her.

Not you, if thats how it sounded. I havent collected extensive data but there definitely seems to be a cadre of users here that pops up whenever a topic about transgender people pops up. I think others could vouch for me on that claim.

True, I think I pretty much addressed this above.

To be fair you have accused me of acting in bad faith, and given that I specified machismo rather than generic masculinity I took it as you trying to twist my words, and then ask a leading question suggesting I am against men or something.

But youre right, and I apologize.

Thank you, I'm sorry if I ever twisted your words. That was not my intent. I've had concerns that you weren't arguing in good faith, perhaps they were overstated, I apologize for that too.

I don't know about the cadre of users, but "knowing some hyperbole was used" aside, I would speculate that they only respond when the topic is brought up.

I think your connection between hate crimes and "the mindset" is far too tenuous. Being a person who acts violently, not a sexual preference against trans people, is the common thread when considering scenarios of violence against trans people. What you are suggesting isn't that far from saying being heterosexual is the same mindset as those who commit violence against gay people. I don't think the connection is there.

Finally, I will skip giving an example scenario because I have some concern it will be concerned to be an argument of equivalence between groups. But I would imagine you could think of a scenario where you were attracted to a person but then upon learning something about their history or character you were no longer attracted to them. It isn't that you claimed you were attracted to them and then claimed you weren't. It was that the person you were attracted to, the person you thought they were, ended up being not who they really were. I would think that such a thing is a thing you could find to be empathetic even if you can't empathize explicitly with people for whom "being born biologically" male is a deal breaker.

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The funniest thing about this topic is it reads like a bunch of people who don't date wondering about unlikely hypothetical problems that they will never encounter on a date

It's very much like the bathroom predator debacle, where people have to imagine unlikely and strange scenarios that don't make fundamental sense to justify a weird hate boner for a kind of person

I mean y'all really worried about a trans woman even talking to you? It certainly sounds that way.

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