Current Events > Watching Avatar the last airbender. Why are the fire nation evil/the bad guys?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bad_Mojo posted...

People just unjustly hate Korra.

Season 2 is pretty bad, aside from a couple of episodes.

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Unjustly HATE. Do you HATE it? I don't care if you have problems with things here and there, we all do. But I see so many people claim that Korra is f'n garbage, and it's not, it's a fantastic show as well, imo

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Bad_Mojo posted...

Unjustly HATE. Do you HATE it? I don't care if you have problems with things here and there, we all do. But I see so many people claim that Korra is f'n garbage, and it's not, it's a fantastic show as well, imo

I've said before that the only reason I'm remotely critical of Avatar: The Last Airbender, is that the people who dump shit all over Legend of Korra while giving TLA a free pass compel me to glare back at both series with a more jaundiced eye. And I don't particularly like doing this, since both rank high among my all-time favorite television series.


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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

How do you figure? Unless you're talking about blood bending which is only during the full moon. And even then, LEGEND OF KORRA SPOILERS Aang very easily defeated a Blood Bender

Assuming that Amon is the pinnacle of Waterbending with his ability to bloodbend without body movements or the full moon, it would be pretty difficult to defeat him one-on-one. The only reason he had to lose is because his goal of de-bending the opponent puts him in range of anybody that can slightly resist it. Otherwise, he could probably just smash them into a wall until their lose consciousness or die. Basically if Avatar was a TV-14 show, Amon would've been stronger than he already was.

Avatar state can apparently just brute force through the bloodbending, but he's probably the strongest non-spirit-enhanced bender in the series.

Never read them there are comics depicting the events between the last airbender and legend of korra.

Personally I disliked how the solution to the firelord conflict was introduced so very late. It felt a little bit cheap, even though it made sense: a somewhat peaceful solution is what was needed. I just wish the buildup had been better.

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Sir Cyrus posted...

Personally I disliked how the solution to the firelord conflict was introduced so very late. It felt a little bit cheap, even though it made sense: a somewhat peaceful solution is what was needed. I just wish the buildup had been better.

Bit of a Deus ex Machina, Korra is also guilty of this.

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personally my only complaint was that after looking for aang across half the finale and instead finding the last resistance (white lotus) they then decided to split up and take down the fire nation independently

i thought it'd have made much more sense if they teamed up with their respective masters and used their experience to develop the creative solutions they ultimately made

like, by comparison, liberating ba sing se was of trivial importance compared to stopping the fleet. if liberated but the fleet was not stopped it'd have just been incinerated.

i really wanted to see sokka/piandao, pakku/katarra, and bumi/toph working together. each of the masters served as foils for the respective characters: piandao's patience to sokka's impetuousness; pakku's pride and inflexibility to katarra's pragmatism; bumi's childlike energy and creativity in the body of an old man to toph's seriousness and directness in the body of a child.

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Oh and throughout the series I kept expecting that Iroh would sacrifice himself for Zuko, yet that didn't happen. Pleasantly surprised!

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so... The air benders really were wiped out. I was clinging to the notion that there was a secret base somewhere, that some escaped and were in hiding. I didn't know at the time that the show would deal with themes as mature as outright genocide. Now I'm sad because if he's truly the last airbender that means that's it, after him it will be a lost art forever. Heck that would affect the cycle of avatars, it would probably end anyway.

And what did happen to Zuko's mother? We didn't get to hear what the former Fire Lord said.

And what is the fate of Azula? They didn't show. If anyone is likely to disturb the peace, break out of prison, start a coup de tat, and overthrow Zuko, it's her.

To the first point, bending is a genetic thing. To continue the line, Aang just has to...get busy.

As to the latter two, these storylines are continued in a comic book series, though I've never read it.

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Your first question is expanded upon in Legend of Korra, the second and third through a comic book series that came out after TLA ended. I think some editions of the TLA box set come with said comics.

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Thanks guys!

So I'm looking up the comics and reading through them and they're amazing. The art style is gorgeous and matches the show exactly, so it's just like watching an episode of the show. Definitely must read for fans

But anyway, my final verdict on the show:

Amazing, amazing, amazing. One of the greatest shows of all time. I can't spend enough time complimenting it.

The characters, the story, the animation, the music... it's all superb.

One thing I was hoping I'd see (well one of many things) is ty lee and Mai breaking out of prison or being sprung out by the gang and then they also join team avatar and help in the fight against the Fire Lord.

Not necessary, but it would have been a nice segue to seeing tylee joining the kyoshi warriors if they had them fighting together against fire soldiers or something.

Amenadeel posted...

Amazing, amazing, amazing. One of the greatest shows of all time. I can't spend enough time complimenting it.

It really is. Glad you liked it so much!
I'm guessing you'll be watching Korra when you're done with the comics?
It's also great, and a bit more mature and dark, but not quite as good as TLA IMO.

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Also why do you think Azula completely lost it? She had it all, everything was at her fingertips, she was the Fire Lord, she had an army of soldiers, why did she start freaking out like that.

Amenadeel posted...

Also why do you think Azula completely lost it? She had it all, everything was at her fingertips, she was the Fire Lord, she had an army of soldiers, why did she start freaking out like that.

She was still incredibly young for having all that power. She basically started to try and plan against if someone like her tried to come after her, and she became so paranoid she couldn't trust anyone. This is especially true when her "best friends" moved against her.

My love for Zuko is stronger than my fear of you

I feel like that moment broke her.

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Amenadeel posted...

Also why do you think Azula completely lost it? She had it all, everything was at her fingertips, she was the Fire Lord, she had an army of soldiers, why did she start freaking out like that.

Creators had to nerf her somehow
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

She was still incredibly young for having all that power. She basically started to try and plan against if someone like her tried to come after her, and she became so paranoid she couldn't trust anyone. This is especially true when her "best friends" moved against her.

My love for Zuko is stronger than my fear of you

I feel like that moment broke her.

I was thinking the same thing, I think that ty lee and mai turning against her really threw her out of a loop, she was not expecting it at all.

It made her paranoid that even her... friends (if someone like her who has used fear her entire life to control or manipulate people can even have friends) turned against her, she'll never be safe.

That insecure moment with her dad when she was like you can't treat me this way, you can't treat me like Zuko really hit me that Azula, with all her manipulating and socipathy, was still just a kid. And with no Zuko, there's no weakest link that she can blame everything going wrong on. The buck stops with her.

Itt we post episodes/scenes/clips that wrecked us. I'll start:

https://youtu.be/ErmZRsCIUsE

(Felt like having a good cry today )

Amenadeel posted...

she was the Fire Lord,

I feel like part was part of the issue. Making himself Pheonix King kinda made Fire Lord not that big of a deal. So I think she saw him making her Fire Lord a major insult.

One scene that really got to me was in Boiling Rock, when Zuko locks Mai in the cell so he can escape, you can see the anger and sadness in her eyes.
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Man, I just remembered the end of season 2 of Korra. What a god awful way to ruin a season ending.

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Phantom_Nook posted...

One scene that really got to me was in Boiling Rock, when Zuko locks Mai in the cell so he can escape, you can see the anger and sadness in her eyes.

Initially I was wondering was she hurt that Zuko "betrayed" the Fire nation and joined the enemy or... was she hurt that he didn't confide in her and trust her to go with him?

At first I thought the former but after she helped him escape I think it may have been the latter. Which further shows that not everyone is brainwashed by the Fire nation.

Azardea posted...

It really is. Glad you liked it so much!
I'm guessing you'll be watching Korra when you're done with the comics?
It's also great, and a bit more mature and dark, but not quite as good as TLA IMO.

I'll be honest I watched the first episode because I was really curious what the sequel would be like and... yeah. It's too soon. I think it'll be a while before I go back, I was not ready for that 1930s new yorkish setting and didn't like it. Was too taken aback. Maybe in a year or so.

masterpug53 posted...

I love the show to death, but once it dawned on me that the last two episodes of S2 were almost a direct copy of Empire Strikes Back, I couldn't unsee it.

Now that I've seen the whole series I have to ask, how is it like Empire strikes back?

Amenadeel posted...

Now that I've seen the whole series I have to ask, how is it like Empire strikes back?

**Spoilers for both Empire Strikes Back and Avatar: The Last Airbender**

> our hero, the last of an ancient line of warrior-monks, splits off from his friends to seek training from an inexplicably-old guru
>meanwhile, the main villain's ruthless enforcer, who's hounded our heroes nearly every step of their journey, infiltrates the city where they erroneously thought they were safe, and captures one or more of them.
> guru teaches our hero that he must detach himself from his friends and loved ones in order to complete his spiritual training
>while attempting this training, our hero has a vision of his loved one(s) in peril. This compels him to turn his back on both the guru and his training to go save his friends
>Arriving at the city, our unprepared hero faces the enforcer, gets his ass kicked, and nearly dies; his life is saved only by the intervention of his love interest
>The bad guys take over the city and win the day. Our defeated heroes make their escape and live to fight again.


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I guess when you put it that way it does seem similar. I'm trying to remember if other shows did the heroes lose and things look grim thing but can't remember though I'm sure I've seen it before.

But if it is like that then it's probably just inspiration, like how a lot of the show borrows inspiration from other culture's settings, or even other shows like how the play recap episode reminded me of Reboot.

Amenadeel posted...

I'll be honest I watched the first episode because I was really curious what the sequel would be like and... yeah. It's too soon. I think it'll be a while before I go back, I was not ready for that 1930s new yorkish setting and didn't like it. Was too taken aback. Maybe in a year or so.

It does take place a 100 years into the future now watch it instead of basing your entire opinion on part 1 of the opener.

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spikethedevil posted...

It does take place a 100 years into the future

70 years*

I appreciated the technological jump. In so many of my favorite series, there's 100+ leaps into the future, but the technology is still exactly the same. This is especially baffling when there's some sort of magic in place that would aid in mass-manufacturing. With how quickly the Fire Nation industrialized before the series began, it would've been ludicrous if there hadn't been some sort of advancement.

Korra is fantastic. Season 2 starts of not that great, but once it hits THOSE 2 episodes it starts to get alright. Season 3 blows everything out of the water, though.

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So here's my review of the series. Book 1 is very good, but Book 2 of avatar and 3 are just out of this world amazing. It's kind of like Justice League to Justice League Unlimited. The original justice league was still a great show but justice league unlimited just took it up so many notches. From the subtle improvement in animation design, to the mature storylines. These can all be seen by the end of book 1, and then further increased in book 2 and 3.

Plus the development of all the characters as the show goes on, it really puts the show up there as part of the greatest animated shows of all time.

I feel like book one was a little too episodic until the end, and the more serialized books 2 and 3 allowed the show to really shine.

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stoltenberg11 posted...

I feel like book one was a little too episodic until the end, and the more serialized books 2 and 3 allowed the show to really shine.

I'll never get the hate for episodic episodes. I guess it's because I grew up watching episodic TV

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Hate is a strong word. I just thought it was a better show after that.

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stoltenberg11 posted...

I feel like book one was a little too episodic until the end, and the more serialized books 2 and 3 allowed the show to really shine.

They were episodic, so I see what you mean. But also I'm glad for them, because the show was finding its bearing at the time and unlike procedural shows that are just episodic, in avatar each episode served a purpose. They helped to establish the world to the audience and show us/Aang a world engulfed in war and suffering from it. Not to mention how great it was that some of these characters played a role later in the series. I was so glad we got to see suki again.

Then later the show gets so amazing with so many complex themes being tackled that I honestly feel it's not just a kids show, it is a series that can be appreciated even more by adults, just like JLU or spectacular Spider-Man or yj or any greg weisman show really.

I'm currently reading the comics to bridge the gap between the show and its sequel so that I can go in fully prepared for the show.

I'm absolutely loving the way the comics are drawn and colored. It's like watching an episode of the show on paper form, just gorgeous art and coloring.

I still need to pick those up and read them

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Also Reading up on the art of the series, and how the creators got the show on Nickelodeon in the first place. I definitely want to ask them about that, if they ever wanted to go to Disney or other companies to pitch this amazing show.

It turns out one of them already worked on a show for Nickelodeon before so that kinda makes sense why they decided to go to them. Apparently Nickelodeon wanted a show that was full of magic and action like Harry potter or Lord of the rings, which was all the rage in the early 2000s.

You guys really should take a look at the art of the series. Seeing the creative process and those gorgeous backgrounds really makes you appreciate the scope of the creators work on avatar.

Now it's time for the stories. Reading the comics in chronological/release order, and first is the lost adventures, which take place during the series and actually features storylines I wanted to see on the show so I'm glad I got to see them in comic form at least. It explains a lot of stuff I was wondering about, such as what happened between season 2 finale and season 3's beginning, I liked that they explained that.

There's an official webgame that takes place between Book 2 and 3, and goes more into the previous four Avatar's lives. If also sheds more light on the previous Water Tribe and Air Nomad Avatars, who you don't really get much from outside of the finale a bit.

There's also a few brief behind-the-scenes segments that focus on the reasons that the four primary bending styles are based on a specific real-life martial art. IIRC, Bagua was Air, Hung Gar was Earth, Tai Chi was Water, and Northern Shaolin was Fire. Obviously some characters have their own styles, like Toph's being based on Northern Mantis Style.

One thing I wanted to ask. The wiki states that Avatar Kyoshi is exceptionally tall based on her appearance in Avatar Day. Looking at her in comparison to the modern-day prosecutor, I suppose that's correct.

But did anyone else think the joke was that Chin the Conqueror was just really short?

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MorganTJ posted...

There's an official webgame that takes place between Book 2 and 3, and goes more into the previous four Avatar's lives. If also sheds more light on the previous Water Tribe and Air Nomad Avatars, who you don't really get much from outside of the finale a bit.

There's also a few brief behind-the-scenes segments that focus on the reasons that the four primary bending styles are based on a specific real-life martial art. IIRC, Bagua was Air, Hung Gar was Earth, Tai Chi was Water, and Northern Shaolin was Fire. Obviously some characters have their own styles, like Toph's being based on Northern Mantis Style.

Oh yeah they mentioned that in the book as well, the series creators were explaining that they based bending on all these martial arts techniques, like tai chi for water. Was really super cool.

Anyway I finished the lost adventures, and definitely recommend it for any fan of the series, it's an amazing collection of stories.

Now I'm going to be reading the first new story that's right after the end of the series: The Promise

pegusus123456 posted...

To the first point, bending is a genetic thing. To continue the line, Aang just has to...get busy.

As to the latter two, these storylines are continued in a comic book series, though I've never read it.

i think they can learn from animals too

im pretty sure the moles taugh earthbending so there probably others for each element

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They can learn techniques from animals and that's how the originals learned, but there's an inherent power that can't be taught. Sokka can live in a cave with the badger moles for decades, he'll never be able to move dirt.

Which, btw, dragons taught fire and flying bisons taught air. Water was the odd one out. Rather than an animal, they learned from the moon.

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The Promise is the first of the books and takes place after the end of the series. Basically it deals with the harmony restoration movement after the defeat of the Fire Lord and all the colonies being kicked out of the earth kingdom.

What I find particularly powerful is that the comic addresses the exact things that I was wondering about at the end of the series. In that just because the Fire Lord is defeated, doesn't mean that peace is truly accomplished.

Hell, the yu dao city is almost an exact parallel of the Israel and Palestine situation. That is an incredibly complex issue to put in a children's series and the way they present it is downright impressive.

Plus, this foreshadows the opening I saw in legend of korra's first episode! I'm glad I waited to read the comics first. This added world building and lore building is fantastic.

Holy crap. No way. Ozai is not Zuko's dad? Is this canon?