Current Events > The phrase 'Bond Girl' is now banned. Bond's wife will refuse to take his name.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I can't wait for the day women are respected enough that we stop feeling the need to "make a point" like this

joe40001 posted...

"The Name's Woke, James Woke"

"I have a license to kill, as long as I get their consent first"

*James walks up to female bartender*
Bond: "I'll have a Vodka Martini"
Female Bartender: "How would you like that prepared?"
Bond: "Your body your choice"

Q: "This device is called the microaggression alarm, it is triggered if anybody within a 20 foot radius becomes upset by what you say."
Bond: "Like the way your outfit is upsetting?"
*Because Q is upset, device goes off*
Q: "Really 007? I'm going to tweet about that comment."

Lul

Wtf Bond women have been strong independent characters since the Brosnan movies.

This is like the creators of Star Trek Discovery saying their show is different because it stars a minority or a woman this time.
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spanky1 posted...

Wtf Bond women have been strong independent characters since the Brosnan movies.

This is like the creators of Star Trek Discovery saying their show is different because it stars a minority or a woman this time.

There've been a few before that I would say were strong and independent (Tracy, Melina, Anya, etc.), but the Brosnan movies made sure to really do the women characters a lot better in that regard.

I'd say the whole Craig series is just a lesser version of what the Brosnan movies did. The Brosnan movies also did the expanded mother/son relationship with M/Bond and called the series out on its tropes...while still being Bond movies.

And I imagine, like with Star Trek now, the people in charge aren't fans of the series nor watched any of the old movies. Man, it's sad watching all these great franchises get ruined.
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This is what happens when a dinosaur of a franchise attempts to join the current times while still hanging on to its roots. It's awkward, clunky and nobody really wants it.
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Bond isn't really holding onto its roots though. It's just trying to be Jason Bourne.

The past few films have been in direct conflict between what the filmmakers want and what fans of the classic Bond series want.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Bond isn't really holding onto its roots though. It's just trying to be Jason Bourne.

The past few films have been in direct conflict between what the filmmakers want and what fans of the classic Bond series want.

That. Just change some names and take out the Bond theme in the score and it's absolutely no different than other modern day action movies.

Bond has its fans. The people who complain about Bond girls and diversity and yada yada yada are non fans who probably won't even watch the series anyway. They should just let Bond be Bond, reboot it again and set it in the 50's/60's, or retire the series and do the generic spy person movies.

I prefer the reboot set in the past option. And in an age of flawed protagonists in various movies and shows, why not Bond? I think a TV series would be a better fit for it. Make it more spy/detective like with action in there.
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spanky1 posted...

Wtf Bond women have been strong independent characters since the Brosnan movies.

This is like the creators of Star Trek Discovery saying their show is different because it stars a minority or a woman this time.

IT WAS ABOUT TIME THAT STAR TREK HAD A WOMAN OR PERSON OF COLOR AS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE SHOW!!!

AND STD WAS NICE ENOUGH TO FINALLY GIVE US SOME GAY REPRESENTATION IN TREK!!!

People act like Trek used to be progressive but those people haven't skimmed a few wiki articles on star trek like me and the creators of Star Trek Discovery did, and we know the truth that Trek has never had black people or gay people or women in any major roles, AND IT'S DISGUSTING.
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pinky0926 posted...

This is what happens when a dinosaur of a franchise attempts to join the current times while still hanging on to its roots. It's awkward, clunky and nobody really wants it.

It doesn't have to be, what this really is is what happens when somebody tries to give a "modern twist" (particularly an sjw flavored one) to something without having any understanding why people like the original.

Mad Max Fury Road hung on to it's roots but it's a much more modern movie than it's counterparts, that's because the guy making it obviously understood the franchise.
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Cant wait not to see this in theaters.
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At this point Kingsmen is more Bond than Bond.

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Southernfatman posted...

And I imagine, like with Star Trek now, the people in charge aren't fans of the series nor watched any of the old movies. Man, it's sad watching all these great franchises get ruined.

Exactly. Why get people who don't like the franchise to run the franchise?
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The Bond Girls/Women have all been pretty great/strong characters for many a film now. I've never felt offended by the term, rather the opposite. A Bond Girl/Woman was a great thing. Many of them were sexy, capable and no long damsels in distress.

I don't really mind if they want to shed it though, just seems a bit silly/unneeded wen they can make the name into something more empowering instead.
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Skye Reynolds posted...

Bond isn't really holding onto its roots though. It's just trying to be Jason Bourne.

The past few films have been in direct conflict between what the filmmakers want and what fans of the classic Bond series want.

The last movie failed because of how hard it was trying to pander to it's original roots.

Casino Royale and Skyfall found a good balance.
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Funkydog posted...

The Bond Girls/Women have all been pretty great/strong characters for many a film now. I've never felt offended by the term, rather the opposite. A Bond Girl/Woman was a great thing. Many of them were sexy, capable and no long damsels in distress.

I don't really mind if they want to shed it though, just seems a bit silly/unneeded wen they can make the name into something more empowering instead.

I've found most of the Bond girls in the Craig movies to be really disappointing as characters. Vesper was great of course, as well as Moneypenny. But that's pretty much it. I guess it doesn't really help when 2 of the 4 Craig movies are really awful.
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I didn't think the Craig Bond movies even had Bond Girls. I mean, they did, but they never felt like them. The Craig Bond movies never felt like actual Bond movies to me, to the point that I don't see why they needed to mention this because I already assumed it was a given.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Funkydog posted...

The Bond Girls/Women have all been pretty great/strong characters for many a film now. I've never felt offended by the term, rather the opposite. A Bond Girl/Woman was a great thing. Many of them were sexy, capable and no long damsels in distress.

I don't really mind if they want to shed it though, just seems a bit silly/unneeded wen they can make the name into something more empowering instead.

I've found most of the Bond girls in the Craig movies to be really disappointing as characters. Vesper was great of course, as well as Moneypenny. But that's pretty much it. I guess it doesn't really help when 2 of the 4 Craig movies are really awful.

As a whole, yeah, the films are nothing great or spectacular with their characters in general. But within the films themselves they always seemed to fit well as their own character as much as any other in said films.
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Darmik posted...

The last movie failed because of how hard it was trying to pander to it's original roots.

This is true. But what really killed Spectre for me was trying to tie all the Craig films together. That trend started with Quantum of Solace and it's been a detriment to the franchise ever since.

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Darmik posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

Bond isn't really holding onto its roots though. It's just trying to be Jason Bourne.

The past few films have been in direct conflict between what the filmmakers want and what fans of the classic Bond series want.

The last movie failed because of how hard it was trying to pander to it's original roots.

Casino Royale and Skyfall found a good balance.

The last movie failed because the script played like bad fanfiction. It does no good to have Blofeld if you're going to make him Bond's evil brother from another mother. The opening scene made it clear he's not Bond when he dodges sex to carry out a mission. The real 007 would make it quick or tell her he'd be back in an hour.

Sure, sex isn't everything. But that's going against one of the core elements of the character. He's an indulgent playboy. This would be like a Batman movie opening up with him shooting a random mugger because he doesn't want to be bothered with apprehending them.

And he's never been suave. Again, one of the core aspects of the character. If it wasn't for Casino Royale borrowing from the novel, they would have been better off to have made Daniel Craig a brand new action hero instead of "Bond."

Casino Royale worked because you knew he was on the path to being Bond. That's what the whole arc with Vesper was about.

Also if he's still hitting on younger women then it still sounds like he's a playboy to me. Doesn't really matter if he gets rejected. He's always been rejected by Moneypenny anyway.

Also apparently Phoebe Waller-Bridge is writing this movie? If she has full input there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Killing Eve is fantastic.
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JadeBaby posted...

Dailywire? They are good.

For A Laugh!

For me to poop on!
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TwoDoorPunkCab posted...

finally. now women can be respected again

I wish there was a scene in the new movie where Miss Moneypenny complains to her boss M about Bond making more money than her. Then when its explained that Bond risks his life everyday and he uses his skills to routinely save the word, Moneypenny would start lecturing about the Patriarchy, using words like problematic and microaggressions.

I would spend double on a ticket to see that for a good laugh.
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Darmik posted...

Casino Royale worked because you knew he was on the path to being Bond. That's what the whole arc with Vesper was about.

That was a lie told by marketing.

The proof is in Quantum of Solace. He'd made no progression whatsoever toward becoming classic Bond.

They never had any plans of having him develop into a smooth spy. They wanted him to remain a rugged blue collar antihero. Claiming it was a prequel simply allowed them to change Bond's personality without complaint from the fans. They figured they'd be let out of their obligation because of how well Daniel Craig's performance would be received.

Well, they were half right. People liked Craig's performance, but they did still expect him to act like Bond at some point. That happened in Skyfall, the studio's last pitch to keep the character alive, but then they pulled a 180 and had him start acting like the Bond of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace again.

"Shaken or stirred?"
"Do I look like I give a damn?"

That's the image they want for the character.

The franchise has a history of treating many of its women really badly so it makes sense that they should be careful with how they treat them now
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joe40001 posted...

Anyway good luck making your bond movie while alienating it's main demographic

I'm a white Male in my 30s, do you think I watch these movies for the womanizing?

I'll give you a hint, I watch it because it's fun. Crazy right?

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Skye Reynolds posted...

Darmik posted...

Casino Royale worked because you knew he was on the path to being Bond. That's what the whole arc with Vesper was about.

That was a lie told by marketing.

The proof is in Quantum of Solace. He'd made no progression whatsoever toward becoming classic Bond.

They never had any plans of having him develop into a smooth spy. They wanted him to remain a rugged blue collar antihero. Claiming it was a prequel simply allowed them to change Bond's personality without complaint from the fans. They figured they'd be let out of their obligation because of how well Daniel Craig's performance would be received.

Well, they were half right. People liked Craig's performance, but they did still expect him to act like Bond at some point. That happened in Skyfall, the studio's last pitch to keep the character alive, but then they pulled a 180 and had him start acting like the Bond of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace again.

"Shaken or stirred?"
"Do I look like I give a damn?"

That's the image they want for the character.

Quantum of Solace is just a bad movie.

Bond movies always rise and dip depending on who's working on them. You're talking about a 'they' in a way that's total nonsense. Quantum of Solace exists because Bourne movies were seen as the spy movie standard back then. Bond movies always are basically their take on what the currently blockbuster trend is. Has been like that since at least the Roger Moore era.
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Darmik posted...

Bond movies always rise and dip depending on who's working on them. You're talking about a 'they' in a way that's total nonsense. Quantum of Solace exists because Bourne movies were seen as the spy movie standard back then.

The two constants have been screenwriter Neal Purvis and producer Barbara Brocoli; daughter of Albert R. Broccoli.

Neal has been the chief series writer since The World is Not Enough. It's clear that he doesn't care for the playboy antics, globetrotting, and cartoon-show-for-grown-ups approach. He'd rather have edgy dialogue and explore themes of black and gray morality.

A screenwriter doesn't get the last say in tone or content, but it's clear that his writing was more inspired when Bond was allowed to be darker and edgier. I think he'd get more enjoyment out of seeing Bond casually justify leaving a friend in a ditch than he would writing a ski chase through the French alps.

I think there's a sort of mutual understanding between studio and writer. Directors have their marching orders too. It's just the fans who don't always understand that Bond is meant to be The Wire, Heat, or The Bourne Identity. Some still think he should be Goldfinger, GoldenEye, or The Spy Who Loved Me.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Neal has been the chief series writer since The World is Not Enough. It's clear that he doesn't care for the playboy antics, globetrotting, and cartoon-show-for-grown-ups approach. He'd rather have edgy dialogue and explore themes of black and gray morality.

Well he gave you Die Another Day. People didn't like that. If Bond continues to be a forever franchise it can't just be the same thing. Look at how Terminator is doing for example.

Skye Reynolds posted...

A screenwriter doesn't get the last say in tone or content, but it's clear that his writing was more inspired when Bond was allowed to be darker and edgier. I think he'd get more enjoyment out of seeing Bond casually justify leaving a friend in a ditch than he would writing a ski chase through the French alps.

Based on what?

Skye Reynolds posted...

I think there's a sort of mutual understanding between studio and writer. Directors have their marching orders too. It's just the fans who don't always understand that Bond is meant to be The Wire, Heat, or The Bourne Identity. Some still think he should be Goldfinger, GoldenEye, or The Spy Who Loved Me.

lol Bond has never been anything like The Wire or Heat.

Again it's literally just what is popular with movie audiences. Look at any James Bond movie and it's a reflection of action movies of that decade.

No Time To Die doesn't sound like a particularly gritty movie either. I doubt it will be because gritty action movies aren't really popular right now.
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au_gold posted...

The sad part is, James Bond having to function in a woke culture is a great premise for a spoof.

Time for a new Austin Powers movie.
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Darmik posted...

Well he gave you Die Another Day. People didn't like that. If Bond continues to be a forever franchise it can't just be the same thing. Look at how Terminator is doing for example.

Terminator had too many cooks and too many dogs trying to mark their territory. Everybody wanted to make the next T2 or take the series in the next new direction; even if it meant killing off characters, ruining characters, or deliberately undoing what others had started. By the time we got to Dark Fate, it was already too late.

Based on what?

How inspired the scenes of grittiness and drama are compared to the scenes of action or the more cartoonish moments.

Quantum of Solace was a bad film, but there was still purpose and drive in the scenes with dealing criticism of American foreign policy and Bond's dark "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" morality.

Meanwhile, when asked to write for a villain who can't feel pain or an adversary who wants to become Bond, there's virtually no material or motivation.

Again it's literally just what is popular with movie audiences. Look at any James Bond movie and it's a reflection of action movies of that decade.

The Man With the Golden Gun had a martial arts scene because martial arts movies were popular. Bond went to space because Star Wars was popular. I get it. He chases trends sometimes.

But there's more to the character than just chasing trends. It's a deliberate creative decision to make him gritty; an independent one. If Bond were chasing trends in Spectre, he'd have acted like Chris Pratt.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Quantum of Solace was a bad film, but there was still purpose and drive in the scenes with dealing criticism of American foreign policy and Bond's dark "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" morality.

Meanwhile, when asked to write for a villain who can't feel pain or an adversary who wants to become Bond, there's virtually no material or motivation.

I don't get it. Do you want these movies to be 'cartoon-show-for-grown-ups' or not?

How is Quantum of Solace more inspired than Casino Royale or Skyfall? Hell wasn't Die Another Day the one that began with James Bond being tortured by North Koreans for a year?

Skye Reynolds posted...

But there's more to the character than just chasing trends. It's a deliberate creative decision to make him gritty; an independent one. If Bond were chasing trends in Spectre, he'd have acted like Chris Pratt.

The next James Bond after Craig probably will be. Bond actors typically swap between rugged and charming for each change.

You're in here in a topic where people are upset that James Bond gets rejected by a woman for laughs. Craig is most certainly at the 'Is there a place for a person like Bond in the modern world?' stage. Which isn't the first time a Bond movie has asked this question.
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Darmik posted...

I don't get it. Do you want these movies to be 'cartoon-show-for-grown-ups' or not?

Maybe not invariably, but it is the first thing I think of when it comes to Bond. The character is rather flexible. The constant factors though should be in his suave nature and his affinity for women, gambling, and martinis.

How is Quantum of Solace more inspired than Casino Royale or Skyfall? Hell wasn't Die Another Day the one that began with James Bond being tortured by North Koreans for a year?

I never said Quantum of Solace was more inspired than Casino Royale. I said its exploration of political and moral themes was more inspired than the formulaic action and Bond tropes from the two Brosnan Bond films he had written.

There's a difference between doing something you like doing and doing something simply because you're paid to do it. Bond fighting a villain who never sleeps and one who cannot feel anything was him doing his job. Bond being a ruthless individual and having a bone to pick on the political front was more driven.

As for the scene of torture in question, I think that was his attempt to inject a bit of darkness into the Bond series. It's undercut by all of the silliness which followed, but I do think that stems from his apparent preference for darkness.

Darmik posted...

You're in here in a topic where people are upset that James Bond gets rejected by a woman for laughs.

It's not even a real news site. People are getting mad over a rumor. But it still allows for discussion.

Skye Reynolds posted...

The constant factors though should be in his suave nature and his affinity for women, gambling, and martinis.

Which are all still there.

You're basically making up a theory because you think a chief writer cared about grittiness more. Despite the gritty movie being considered the worst of the Craig era.

And yeah Spectre was pretty clearly inspired by superhero movies considering they basically gave Blofeld an origin story taken right from comic books.

If this chief writer only liked gritty dialogue and characters he wouldn't have hired Phoebe Waller-Bridge.
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Darmik posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The constant factors though should be in his suave nature and his affinity for women, gambling, and martinis.

Which are all still there.

No, they're not.

was always kinda weird and gross how bond's sexual assault of women was always laughed off, with the "strong women" never actually being treated any diffferently

Skye Reynolds posted...

Darmik posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The constant factors though should be in his suave nature and his affinity for women, gambling, and martinis.

Which are all still there.

No, they're not.

Craig Bond literally started off with a movie entirely about his gambling skills.

Pretty sure he bangs a woman in every single movie. His most iconic scene will likely be when he emerges from the water in his trunks. He's still a suave motherfucker. He just has more of an edge to him.

He also still orders Martini's.

So you're literally wrong. Unless you're speculating about a movie where he likely will still bed a woman, will gamble at some point and will order a martini at some point. The only difference is that maybe a woman in her twenties will reject the 50 year old man trying to be seductive.
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Gambling factored into the plot of Casino Royale. He hasn't done in outside of that one scene.

The big martini moment has been the aforementioned quote where he doesn't give a damn whether it's shaken or stirred.

And sexuality is treated more as a tool that he uses. He cuckolds the bad guy to show that he's the alpha male -- his own admission to Vesper. He uses sex as a means of gaining information. He lures a woman into a hotel room and then abandons her there to carry out a mission. It's an alibi. Hell, Bond might as well be a closet homosexual who uses women as his mask. It wouldn't be any less of a departure.

It's deliberately subverted. Except with gambling. That they simply don't give a shit about. It was one scene that was vital to one plot and then never brought up again. It's no longer a part of who he is.

AmericaTheBrave posted...

Southernfatman posted...

And I imagine, like with Star Trek now, the people in charge aren't fans of the series nor watched any of the old movies. Man, it's sad watching all these great franchises get ruined.

Exactly. Why get people who don't like the franchise to run the franchise?

Because the previous people in charge of trek didn't know how to do movies, so they said "JJ is good at dumb splosions so give it to him" and JJ doesn't care about plot, so he brought along some of the worst writers ever. And because he's a talentless horrible horrible writer Akiva Goldsman can't get any other job but since he was the biggest producer name associated with the movies he got put in charge of everything, kinda grandfathered in.

It's like how the simpsons got bad because everybody who was talented moved on to other things. Everybody with even an iota of talent involved in the movies moved on to other things, so the least talented dumbest person was left in charge of arguably one of the most intelligent and thoughtful franchises of all time.

Never did I think somebody would make B&B look amazing by comparison, but say what you will about their bad ideas, they at least kinda cared about Trek. Fuck Akiva
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I Like Toast posted...

joe40001 posted...

Anyway good luck making your bond movie while alienating it's main demographic

I'm a white Male in my 30s, do you think I watch these movies for the womanizing?

I'll give you a hint, I watch it because it's fun. Crazy right?

And nothing says fun more than "woke james bond"

You are right, you watch them because they are fun, but if you buffer off every rough edge and remove everything that "could be seen as problematic", and make fun of the character that people love for acting like he normally acts you are basically making fun of the audience for ever liking James Bond in the first place.

That is alienating, and that is not fun.
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Skye Reynolds posted...

Gambling factored into the plot of Casino Royale. He hasn't done in outside of that one scene

Lol one scene. Maybe you should rewatch that movie sometime.

The gambling in Casino Royale alone outnumbers any other Bonds gambling screen time.

Skye Reynolds posted...

The big martini moment has been the aforementioned quote where he doesn't give a damn whether it's shaken or stirred.

I'm pretty sure the only movie he doesn't order a martini in is Skyfall.

Skye Reynolds posted...

And sexuality is treated more as a tool that he uses. He cuckolds the bad guy to show that he's the alpha male -- his own admission to Vesper. He uses sex as a means of gaining information. He lures a woman into a hotel room and then abandons her there to carry out a mission. It's an alibi. Hell, Bond might as well be a closet homosexual who uses women as his mask. It wouldn't be any less of a departure.

Sounds like Bond to me. A guy who uses sex as a tool.

He also seemed pretty attracted to Vesper to me. So no idea how you could claim he's closeted.

You're clearly a guy who has made up his mind and only sees what he wants to see. Which is pretty typical of you.
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Darmik posted...

He also seemed pretty attracted to Vesper to me. So no idea how you could claim he's closeted.

I didn't say he was. I said he might as well be.

Your arguments are paper thin. It'd be like saying that The Dark Knight captures the humorous nature of old school Batman because the film made a sarcastic one-liner or two.

joe40001 posted...

au_gold posted...

The sad part is, James Bond having to function in a woke culture is a great premise for a spoof.

Agreed

Is Connery healthy enough for one last go at it?

Daniel Craig's Bond never really fucked around much anyway, so I'm not sure why they're acting like the next Bond will be so different. Bond hasn't been that way for at least 17 years, its nothing new

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Skye Reynolds posted...

Gambling factored into the plot of Casino Royale. He hasn't done in outside of that one scene.

The big martini moment has been the aforementioned quote where he doesn't give a damn whether it's shaken or stirred.

And sexuality is treated more as a tool that he uses. He cuckolds the bad guy to show that he's the alpha male -- his own admission to Vesper. He uses sex as a means of gaining information. He lures a woman into a hotel room and then abandons her there to carry out a mission. It's an alibi. Hell, Bond might as well be a closet homosexual who uses women as his mask. It wouldn't be any less of a departure.

It's deliberately subverted. Except with gambling. That they simply don't give a shit about. It was one scene that was vital to one plot and then never brought up again. It's no longer a part of who he is.

Don't you get tired of always being wrong? You did it in the Star Wars thread and now this. There were 2 gambling scenes in CR (the big one and also the one where he wins the Aston Martin). When you are constantly getting basic things wrong, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
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Okay, I don't remember him winning the Aston Martin. But that is still Casino Royale. That's two scenes in one movie and no scenes in the following three movies.

When they introduce Bond in the old movies, he's usually having fun. He's either exploring a unique part of the globe, in bed with a beautiful woman, or enjoying the nightlife. This Bond doesn't have that. He's always brooding or angry or else he'll occasionally gives a slight smile. That works for most action heroes, but Bond is unique. He's not a standard gritty-tough-guy-with-a-gun. That's why he's outlasted the others. Characters who stand out from the pack usually do.

This would be like replacing Superman's iconic cape with the standard generic black leather suit that most superhero characters seem to be wearing.

By the way, if you're going to act like a teenager, don't put your birth year in your username.

joe40001 posted...

spanky1 posted...

Wtf Bond women have been strong independent characters since the Brosnan movies.

This is like the creators of Star Trek Discovery saying their show is different because it stars a minority or a woman this time.

IT WAS ABOUT TIME THAT STAR TREK HAD A WOMAN OR PERSON OF COLOR AS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE SHOW!!!

AND STD WAS NICE ENOUGH TO FINALLY GIVE US SOME GAY REPRESENTATION IN TREK!!!

People act like Trek used to be progressive but those people haven't skimmed a few wiki articles on star trek like me and the creators of Star Trek Discovery did, and we know the truth that Trek has never had black people or gay people or women in any major roles, AND IT'S DISGUSTING.

This has to be a joke post.
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According to leaks reported by The Daily Mail, the upcoming James Bond

Oh it's a Daily Heil thing.
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Important correction

While Akiva is a shitty writer person, the real person I wanted to dunk on was Alex Kurtzman NOT Akiva

So change my origin post to be directed at Kurtzman

Writer of such films as:

The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Star Trek Into Darkness
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
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Craig still drinks and gambles and bangs women, but it's just not the same. The charm and vibe is gone. Them trying to get back to Bond's roots (and they barely did it's mostly in jokes and references) wasn't what made the movies bad, it was the writing.

I was ok at first with him not being "Bond" in CR as it was supposedly planned (or at least implied) that he would become the Bond we know in later films, but he never really did. They went from him being a fresh agent to him being the old dog within 2 movies. I don't' even think they know what they want to do.
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