Board 8 > 3/4 upcoming FF15 DLCs cancelled. Wow, SquEnix. Just...wow.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Xiahou Shake posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Good

Getting rid of bad dev heads forces square to bring in new talent

Maybe this will allow for some renovation and renaissance

This would be on the money except that Tabata was the bloody miracle worker that salvaged FFXV from Nomura's decade-long fumbling of the ball. He was by all rights a very talented director and probably the sort that Squeenix desperately needs right now, and they turned him away. Meanwhile, Tetsuya "what deadlines" Nomura is still at the company poisoning every non-KH game he touches. If KH3 isn't any good either then they're going to be in an amazingly bad place.

He was also the guy who did Third Birthday, which was actual garbage. His record is Not Good. Nomura meanwhile got BBS, Dream Drop Distance and now KH3 (soon) out the door while helping with other projects. I'll take the guy who produces good games, even if he needs editorial control, over the guy who doesn't. It wasn't Nomura who contributed to tanking Square's reputation. Tabata has exactly one good game to his credit, Crisis Core, and everything else has been misses.
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Square Enix should break up into two companies.

One would keep the Squaresoft name and the Japanese IPs (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, NieR, etc.). The other would either be called Enix or would use the old Eidos name and would keep the Western IPs (Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Hitman, Life Is Strange, etc.)

I feel like trying to be a global company is splitting up Square Enix's resources way too much and a split would focus the Japanese side of the company on its old guard IPs.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I'll take the guy who produces good games, even if he needs editorial control, over the guy who doesn't.

That's not how directing works. The director doesn't have to be the lead designer. Tabata definitely was not the designer of XV and probably not Crisis Core either. He just makes sure shit gets done. The games he designs might suck, but he knows how to release a game. That's why he should be a superhero to SE.
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Not really

Bad product hurts you, particularly lots of it and square has shoveled out a ton of shit. Square needs less but higher quality volume to keep their brand sustainable before it allows itself to crank out turds again. Tabata leaving is a good thing because it means new directors to make games come together better.
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Nomura wanted FFXV to be a trilogy
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pjbasis posted...

Nomura wanted FFXV to be a trilogy

Well given how fast XIII-2 and LR came out after XIII, we could've been playing XV-2 within the next year instead of just waiting for another piece of DLC.
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All the games he's released have been popular, and definitely profitable. What you think is quality doesn't matter at all. There's a reason they picked him to save their ass from a billion $ development hell. The fact that he got the game somewhat near break even is absolutely miraculous, and it's exactly his job. Director for SE.

If they promote other younger people to director and they do a great job, then that's awesome for sure. But going back to Nomura or other directors who can't release games is obviously worse.

Or if they go back to smaller tighter experiences that are actually led by a designer, not held back by the massive bureaucracy of a billion $ company...

The problem is you're dreaming of the past SE, who could design good games. That SE is gone. They design shit games and have shit business practices that make good games impossible. You can't blame the director on that. All a good director can do is make the best of the shit they're given and get it out the door.

The fact that he was able to identify what parts of XV needed to be finished to make it a pretty moving and satisfying experience is straight legendary. Maybe 25% of that game tops was finished when they released it, but it hit all the notes. Who else can do that? Kojima can't.
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Was Type 0 popular? Cause I know 3rd Birthday is hated. Its considered to have killed Parasite Eve permanently. So I'm not sure Tabata's games have had such a good reception aside from Crisis Core.

(I agree Square is prolly not gonna get better tho. It'd be a major miracle if they pulled and Id Software and resurrected themselves with a megagame, but Id was busy getting top talent and Square's alienated it instead. We're probably not seeing a good FF in the next decade.)
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Those games are hella Japanese so I dunno. Maybe SE wanted a more international success.
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Capcom got better a few years after kicking Inafune to the curb right?

Who's his SE equivalent?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Who else can do that? Kojima can't.

The sandbox of mgsv is still one of the best gsmes ever
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I would rather wander around MGSV fucking around for 20 hours doing nothing than have to go through any 1 hour chunk of FFXV again.
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ninkendo posted...

ROFLMAO

This is pure win...
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foolm0r0n posted...

The fact that he was able to identify what parts of XV needed to be finished to make it a pretty moving and satisfying experience is straight legendary. Maybe 25% of that game tops was finished when they released it, but it hit all the notes. Who else can do that? Kojima can't.

Personally, I wouldn't call any part of FF15 "moving" or "satisfying". I'm not exactly a big fan of MGSV either, but it had at least one mission that I would consider one of the high points of the entire Metal Gear franchise.

FF15 and MGSV really are comparable, though. They both have vast, empty worlds with nothing of interest to do except fight stuff. They both have a million repetitive filler sidequests. They're both blatantly unfinished games. The difference is that I paid $80 for both of them, but I only regretted it for FF15, because I got at least something from MGSV (even if it was just one really good mission), while I got absolutely nothing out of FF15 except frustration.
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pjbasis posted...

The sandbox of mgsv is still one of the best gsmes ever

LapisLazuli posted...

I would rather wander around MGSV fucking around for 20 hours doing nothing than have to go through any 1 hour chunk of FFXV again.

wish I could be like y'all
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Keltiq posted...

but it had at least one mission that I would consider one of the high points of the entire Metal Gear franchise.

Totally agree, but XV definitely had a mission on that level. Honestly I would have to give XV's mission the win here even though I loooove that MGSV mission. And XV just had a lot more stuff in general that just made it a really nice and emotional game, even in the ending which was total nonsense.

Basically, I can see where XV was going. I can imagine if that game was finished, it would've been phenomenal. However MGSV doesn't feel like it would've gotten better even after 10 more years of development. Maybe a couple more awesome isolated missions like that one but that's it.
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metaIslug posted...

Which MGSV mission are we talking about?

Presumably the one inside the quarantine tent.
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voltch posted...

Capcom got better a few years after kicking Inafune to the curb right?

Who's his SE equivalent?

Gotta be Nomura, yeah?
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square has really gone downhill, makes me nostalgic for FF13(2010)
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tagging @LeonhartFour because I hate when people are like "Don't tag me in things"
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ninkendo posted...

burst out laughing. Fantastic.
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I didn't say "don't tag me in things"

I said don't tag me if you're going to do something stupid like "look I told you so let me rub in how right I was while you're bummed out about something you like being shut down"
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@LeonhartFour

I know but I see it on Twitter and facebook all the time people who think they're super important being like "please don't tag me in stuff" and it bothers the SHIT outta me.

Fair enough though.
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Ulti has this compulsive need to make sure you know he's right

I'm never interested in him going "I told you so" but I was even less so at that moment
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Weird how people don't like it when you act like an irritating child
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ExThaNemesis posted...

ninkendo posted...

burst out laughing. Fantastic.

hahahah is that Noctis???
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no it's me cosplaying as Noctis because of how sad I am over this news
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Re: Square/Enix, is there anyone on this site willing to give opinions more nuanced than "Every videogame made after 2003 is shit" on the wiki? Because it feels like that entire website is written by Ulti.
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FFXV was my 2016 Goty so *shrug*
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Logience posted...

Re: Square/Enix, is there anyone on this site willing to give opinions more nuanced than "Every videogame made after 2003 is shit" on the wiki? Because it feels like that entire website is written by Ulti.

That's what Square's track record had been though. I mean, of all the gamrs they've made, only Bravely, DQ, and Nier standout to me. Final Fantasy only seemingly exists as a way to port their old games to new shit.

The phrase "FFXV was a $60 FF Jukebox" is something my friend tells me all the time. I'm with Shine. It was my GOTY 2016, but I can see my friend's point. What they are doing isn't working.
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Human Revolution, Sleeping Dogs, Hitman, The world ends with you, Life is Strange and Tomb Raider 2013 were all fun.

Publisher Square>Dev Square I guess?

Dunno who the big I am setsuna, Just Cause and Octopath fans are though
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Well, if you ignore dumping themselves in with all the corporate DLC/Microtransaction bullshit, yes. I didn't play Mankind Divided, but good lord that was a PR mess.
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voltch posted...

Human Revolution, Sleeping Dogs, Hitman, The world ends with you, Life is Strange and Tomb Raider 2013 were all fun.

Publisher Square>Dev Square I guess?

Dunno who the big I am setsuna, Just Cause and Octopath fans are though

Octopath is my GOTY so far and DQ XI is up there

Nier was my GOTY last year

Final Fantasy is still dead in the water, but I think SE seems to be headed in the right direction. Cancelling FFXV and moving on is probably for the best. Unless they were going to completely remake the game so that the DLC fits seamlessly into the narrative, there was no saving it.

It was forever ago at this point but KHII was also a big, well-liked Squeenix success.
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What about Kingdom Hearts 2?
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FFXV was hot trash. I got about 3 hours in before I gave up.

This gaming trend of every franchise being a shitty Assassin's Creed clone needs to fucking die. It has already ruined Final Fantasy, Zelda and Mario. I don't care how 'big' the world is if the entire thing is devoid of interesting content.
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Not one of those franchises was inspired by Assassin's Creed.

Maybe you meant Skyrim
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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

This gaming trend of every franchise being a shitty Assassin's Creed clone needs to fucking die.

This is one of the most misguided reductive extrapolations I've seen on a board all about misguided reductive extrapolations.
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It's particularly ironic because Assassin's Creed actually changed up it's own formula to follow the trend I think he's referring to.
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He's also used the term SJW unironically before so he has a good track record
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World of Final Fantasy was p dope for what it was.

Left Alive, Babylon's Fall and that Tales thing are a wait and see thing.

To me they still pump out a lot of good stuff as a dev or publisher.

The KHIII Demo was a very positive experience.

Mainline FFs seem divisive at best though. Wonder if things would improve if Square just contracted Namco or Ubisoft to make a mainline FF. It would at least get done on time.
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Let's not forget that Theatrhythm (especially Curtain Call) is amazing too. I would say it's the best rhythm game I've ever played, but I admittedly haven't played that many.
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Square probably has the most diverse, interesting portfolios in the last 15 years among third party AAA studios. Has it been a low period for big budget, mainline Final Fantasys? Yes, absolutely. Even the good ones have been mired by production struggles. Do they make bizarre decisions on the regular? Yes, look at the subject of this topic. But they're also the company that gave Yoko Taro 4 games, rescued Sleeping Dogs, funded Life is Strange, bought Eidos and turned many of their tentpole franchises into profitable games, produced great Final Fantasy spin-offs like World of Final Fantasy, Theatrhythm, or the mobile games. It's never boring with Square.

Well I mean, unless you're playing XV.
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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

FFXV was hot trash. I got about 3 hours in before I gave up.

This gaming trend of every franchise being a shitty Assassin's Creed clone needs to fucking die. It has already ruined Final Fantasy, Zelda and Mario. I don't care how 'big' the world is if the entire thing is devoid of interesting content.

This is a take so nuclear that it spawned a Fallout game.
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iiicon posted...

Square probably has the most diverse, interesting portfolios in the last 15 years among third party AAA studios. Has it been a low period for big budget, mainline Final Fantasys? Yes, absolutely. Even the good ones have been mired by production struggles. Do they make bizarre decisions on the regular? Yes, look at the subject of this topic. But they're also the company that gave Yoko Taro 4 games, rescued Sleeping Dogs, funded Life is Strange, bought Eidos and turned many of their tentpole franchises into profitable games, produced great Final Fantasy spin-offs like World of Final Fantasy, Theatrhythm, or the mobile games. It's never boring with Square.

Well I mean, unless you're playing XV.

Sega maybe? They're generally super diverse overall.
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Can Sega fund a AAA game?

Total War games don't seem to be that high up the totem pole.
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Sega is a good company to bring up. They don't really operate at the same level as Square (FF and Tomb Raider are series that move 8M+ when everything goes right), but between their acquisitions of Atlus and numerous PC strategy developers, plus the increased visibility of some of their Japanese series like Yakuza and VC, they do a lot of cool stuff.
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