Poll of the Day > Pregnant women in immigration detention under Trump saying been denied medical

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Rasmoh
07/19/18 1:52:38 AM
#101:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Dunno. Cause they're children?


Oh shit, children are sad! Fuck having borders and law and shit now!
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Yellow
07/19/18 3:05:44 AM
#102:


The fact that all you people can do is make shit up about what imaginary Democrats want is a testament to how wrong you are
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Mead
07/19/18 4:09:32 AM
#103:


Imaginary democrats are ruining this crunchy!
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Jen0125
07/19/18 4:11:11 AM
#104:


Man, I can't imagine being so callous towards human beings just because of an imaginary divide created over a map. Get some perspective.
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Kyuubi4269
07/19/18 4:20:40 AM
#105:


Jen0125 posted...
Man, I can't imagine being so callous towards human beings just because of an imaginary divide created over a map. Get some perspective.

It's totally imaginary, not agreed boundaries between culturally, socially and economically distinct people who have little to no means to smoothly integrate each other. Obvs Mexico is a shithole due to magic and America taking on these people would have no negative consequences as immigrants are identical to nationals.
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Scloud posted...
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Jen0125
07/19/18 4:23:16 AM
#106:


Just because you're going to deport them back doesn't mean you should treat them like animals, lock them in cages, and deny them medical care. I don't know how you people function in society. I really doubt you do properly.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
07/20/18 12:06:56 AM
#107:


Rasmoh posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Dunno. Cause they're children?


Oh shit, children are sad! Fuck having borders and law and shit now!

Lmao. Fam I'm gay an even for me you're bein overly dramatic af.

Jen0125 posted...
Just because you're going to deport them back doesn't mean you should treat them like animals, lock them in cages, and deny them medical care. I don't know how you people function in society. I really doubt you do properly.

A fucking men.
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Rasmoh
07/20/18 2:42:59 AM
#108:


Jen0125 posted...
Man, I can't imagine being so callous towards human beings just because of an imaginary divide created over a map. Get some perspective.


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
A fucking men.


Uh oh, it's the "You're So Heartless!" Brigade, coming to gloss over criminal behavior with cries of emotion!

How is it not equally callous to force our own citizens to bear the burden of unchecked illegal immigration? You do realize that lower and middle class people are the ones who have to deal with the plethora of negatives associated with people illegally entering our country, right? Is it not callous tell someone that they have to deal with increased taxes, even more thinly stretched social programs, increased crime, suppressed wages, etc or they're evil?

Also, assuming you don't invite every homeless person that you see to come live with you, you are equally as callous as I am.
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Jen0125
07/20/18 3:38:59 AM
#109:


Rasmoh posted...
How is it not equally callous to force our own citizens to bear the burden of unchecked illegal immigration?


We're able to easily. It's not some giant burden. Christ on a cracker.

Rasmoh posted...
You do realize that lower and middle class people are the ones who have to deal with the plethora of negatives associated with people illegally entering our country, right?


Oh gosh, and why is that? Is it possibly because the wealthy don't pull their weight in our society? And whose fault is that??

Rasmoh posted...
Is it not callous tell someone that they have to deal with increased taxes, even more thinly stretched social programs, increased crime, suppressed wages, etc or they're evil?


And whose fault is it that the middle class and lower class constantly have to pay higher taxes while their rich and corporate buddies get massive tax breaks??

Rasmoh posted...
Also, assuming you don't invite every homeless person that you see to come live with you, you are equally as callous as I am.


This is a false equivalency because my taxes already pay for resources for the homeless if they want to make use of them.
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Kyuubi4269
07/20/18 6:15:31 AM
#110:


Jen0125 posted...
We're able to easily. It's not some giant burden. Christ on a cracker.

Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Jen0125 posted...
Oh gosh, and why is that? Is it possibly because the wealthy don't pull their weight in our society? And whose fault is that??

Not relevant, the poor are effected because immigrants are poor too and so live amongst them bringing about culture clash.

Jen0125 posted...
And whose fault is it that the middle class and lower class constantly have to pay higher taxes while their rich and corporate buddies get massive tax breaks??

Gov'mint, but it's specifically liberals who promote tax rises to increase support systems. The right want to take away support to lessen tax but since they can't, they make everyone else take the burden to save themselves.

Jen0125 posted...
This is a false equivalency because my taxes already pay for resources for the homeless if they want to make use of them.

You don't, we do. If you think it's good, you pay for it.
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Scloud posted...
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
07/20/18 3:41:46 PM
#111:


Rasmoh posted...
Also, assuming you don't invite every homeless person that you see to come live with you, you are equally as callous as I am.

We volunteer at local shelters. Stop bein weird fam.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
07/20/18 3:42:21 PM
#112:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.
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Rasmoh
07/21/18 12:12:40 AM
#113:


Jen0125 posted...
We're able to easily. It's not some giant burden. Christ on a cracker.


Importing shitloads of uneducated foreigners isn't a burden? Are you really this fucking delusional?

Oh gosh, and why is that? Is it possibly because the wealthy don't pull their weight in our society? And whose fault is that??


Is it on the wealthy to pay for shitloads of foreigners to come here and get free shit?

Also, I'd be willing to wager that the "wealthy that don't pull their weight" contribute far more to society than the people entering illegally.

And whose fault is it that the middle class and lower class constantly have to pay higher taxes while their rich and corporate buddies get massive tax breaks??


Funny how you blame the rich for not having more of their income taken from them, but don't blame the rich for being the ones with the incentive to import shitloads of cheap labor.

I also like how you ignored all the other negatives of illegal immigration that almost exclusively affect the lower and middle classes.

my taxes already pay for resources for the homeless if they want to make use of them.


So because of a scant amount of your taxes go to helping the homeless, you're good? You can always be helping more, just as you seem to expect everyone else to do, even to their detriment. You are quite the hypocrite.
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Revelation34
07/21/18 12:56:52 AM
#114:


Rasmoh posted...
I also like how you ignored all the other negatives of illegal immigration that almost exclusively affect the lower and middle classes.


The middle class doesn't usually make food in the back of kitchens.
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ClarkDuke
07/22/18 4:43:46 AM
#115:


Rasmoh posted...
You are quite the hypocrite.

You are an all around bad person, ok?
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Kyuubi4269
07/22/18 5:00:09 AM
#116:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.
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Scloud posted...
Its like he wants two things at the same time.
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ClarkDuke
07/22/18 5:02:08 AM
#117:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Citation or bullshit, ok?
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Kyuubi4269
07/22/18 5:11:42 AM
#118:


ClarkDuke posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Citation or bullshit, ok?

www.independent.co.uk/ news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-uk-britain-newcastle-serious-case-review -operation-sanctuary-shelter-muslim-asian-a8225106.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

www.express.co.uk/news/world/747079/Ami-Horowitz-documentary -maker-attacked-by-migrants-in-Sweden

That took no effort.
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Scloud posted...
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Mead
07/22/18 6:43:36 AM
#119:


Revelation34 posted...
Rasmoh posted...
I also like how you ignored all the other negatives of illegal immigration that almost exclusively affect the lower and middle classes.


The middle class doesn't usually make food in the back of kitchens.


Nowadays they do
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Revelation34
07/22/18 1:31:20 PM
#120:


Mead posted...
Revelation34 posted...
Rasmoh posted...
I also like how you ignored all the other negatives of illegal immigration that almost exclusively affect the lower and middle classes.


The middle class doesn't usually make food in the back of kitchens.


Nowadays they do


They would be lower class then since you don't make a lot of money that way unless you're a famous professional chef who wouldn't be an illegal immigrant anyway.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
07/24/18 1:34:54 AM
#121:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Wasn't it NYE 2015/16?
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ClarkDuke
07/25/18 4:55:32 AM
#122:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Wasn't it NYE 2015/16?

Now he's posting dated articles, sad, ok?
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Kyuubi4269
07/25/18 5:30:35 AM
#123:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Wasn't it NYE 2015/16?

And it's still not been dealt with, wth?
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Scloud posted...
Its like he wants two things at the same time.
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TaKun782
07/25/18 9:26:06 AM
#124:


JixHedgehog posted...
What did she expect coming into the country illegally?

To get immediate health care coverage that most Americans themselves have a difficult time obtaining and affording?

No. She was stupid enough to put herself and her unborn baby into this situation, and with the current hub-bub over immigration right now, she made a very very poor decision


As much of a sad reality that we live in. This guy gets it.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
07/27/18 8:10:50 PM
#125:


ClarkDuke posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Wasn't it NYE 2015/16?

Now he's posting dated articles, sad, ok?

Next he's gonna bring up Hillary's emails.
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ClarkDuke
08/01/18 9:13:55 PM
#126:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
ClarkDuke posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Tell that to the victims of Muslim rape gangs. Or New Years rapes. Or attacks in no go zones.

Ffs stay on topic.

Literally all down to immigrants, this may surprise you but England is a Christian country so Islam isn't native. Germany had a large surge of rapes from (I think) Somali immigrants on New Years. The last one I shouldn't have to explain.

Wasn't it NYE 2015/16?

Now he's posting dated articles, sad, ok?

Next he's gonna bring up Hillary's emails.

Desperate times, ok?
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
08/03/18 5:19:24 PM
#127:



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lihlih
08/03/18 5:24:30 PM
#128:


I dont want to go through all the posts in this topic. Has this news article been proven true or false yet?
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The_tall_midget
08/03/18 5:59:12 PM
#129:


Not a citizen of a country = Not entitled to jack shit from said country.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
08/03/18 6:19:35 PM
#130:


lihlih posted...
I dont want to go through all the posts in this topic. Has this news article been proven true or false yet?

True.
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lihlih
08/03/18 7:14:37 PM
#131:


FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
lihlih posted...
I dont want to go through all the posts in this topic. Has this news article been proven true or false yet?

True.


Sauce?
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
08/03/18 11:37:55 PM
#132:


lihlih posted...
FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...
lihlih posted...
I dont want to go through all the posts in this topic. Has this news article been proven true or false yet?

True.


Sauce?

Fam I'm happily engaged.
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darkknight109
08/04/18 12:05:40 AM
#133:


Rasmoh posted...
How is it not equally callous to force our own citizens to bear the burden of unchecked illegal immigration? You do realize that lower and middle class people are the ones who have to deal with the plethora of negatives associated with people illegally entering our country, right? Is it not callous tell someone that they have to deal with increased taxes, even more thinly stretched social programs, increased crime, suppressed wages, etc or they're evil?


So, a couple of things here:

1) Illegal immigrants are net payers into the social welfare system. They pay things like sales tax and payroll tax, just like everyone else, and thereby help to pay for programs that they are ineligible to take advantage of, such as Social Security and Medicare. A study - commissioned by the Trump administration, who then attempted to suppress the results when they discovered that it didn't support their views - determined that illegal immigrants over the last decade paid about $63 billion more into government coffers than they cost. In other words, if, tomorrow, every illegal immigrant in America decided to self-deport, the government would suffer a net loss of about $7 billion a year. The idea that illegal immigrants are a drain on social programs is pure fantasy.

2) The relationship between illegal immigration and crime has been extensively studied and an overwhelming majority of analyses indicate that illegal immigrants commit crime at markedly lower rates than native-born citizens. This, again, makes logical sense. The majority of those immigrating are doing so for the improved economic opportunity the US offers; to that end, it is not in their interest to risk coming to the attention of the authorities and being deported by committing crimes. An influx of illegal immigration has actually been noted to result in a decrease in violent crime.

You can read more about it here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

3) The idea that immigrants suppress wages is the only one of the points you brought up that is at least debatable. Studies have shown mixed results, but the general trend is that wage suppression as a result of illegal immigration is either extremely minor or non-existent. In addition, illegal immigrants tend to do work in areas that native-born citizens refuse to work in (such as agriculture), either because of low pay, the brutal nature of the job, or both.

4) Even if you disregard all of the above, you didn't actually address the point raised against you, which is this:

Even if you acknowledge that these people are criminals and the accepted punishment for their crime is deportation, that does not mean you need to be cruel and callous in your application of that punishment. You can deport someone without being a heartless asshole to them, as pretty much every prior administration has managed to prove.
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Revelation34
08/04/18 3:11:07 PM
#134:


darkknight109 posted...
The relationship between illegal immigration and crime has been extensively studied and an overwhelming majority of analyses indicate that illegal immigrants commit crime at markedly lower rates than native-born citizens. This, again, makes logical sense. The majority of those immigrating are doing so for the improved economic opportunity the US offers; to that end, it is not in their interest to risk coming to the attention of the authorities and being deported by committing crimes. An influx of illegal immigration has actually been noted to result in a decrease in violent crime.


There are more native citizens than illegal immigrants in any country is why that makes logical sense.
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lihlih
08/04/18 3:50:49 PM
#135:


darkknight109 posted...
Rasmoh posted...
How is it not equally callous to force our own citizens to bear the burden of unchecked illegal immigration? You do realize that lower and middle class people are the ones who have to deal with the plethora of negatives associated with people illegally entering our country, right? Is it not callous tell someone that they have to deal with increased taxes, even more thinly stretched social programs, increased crime, suppressed wages, etc or they're evil?


So, a couple of things here:

1) Illegal immigrants are net payers into the social welfare system. They pay things like sales tax and payroll tax, just like everyone else, and thereby help to pay for programs that they are ineligible to take advantage of, such as Social Security and Medicare. A study - commissioned by the Trump administration, who then attempted to suppress the results when they discovered that it didn't support their views - determined that illegal immigrants over the last decade paid about $63 billion more into government coffers than they cost. In other words, if, tomorrow, every illegal immigrant in America decided to self-deport, the government would suffer a net loss of about $7 billion a year. The idea that illegal immigrants are a drain on social programs is pure fantasy.

2) The relationship between illegal immigration and crime has been extensively studied and an overwhelming majority of analyses indicate that illegal immigrants commit crime at markedly lower rates than native-born citizens. This, again, makes logical sense. The majority of those immigrating are doing so for the improved economic opportunity the US offers; to that end, it is not in their interest to risk coming to the attention of the authorities and being deported by committing crimes. An influx of illegal immigration has actually been noted to result in a decrease in violent crime.

You can read more about it here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

3) The idea that immigrants suppress wages is the only one of the points you brought up that is at least debatable. Studies have shown mixed results, but the general trend is that wage suppression as a result of illegal immigration is either extremely minor or non-existent. In addition, illegal immigrants tend to do work in areas that native-born citizens refuse to work in (such as agriculture), either because of low pay, the brutal nature of the job, or both.

4) Even if you disregard all of the above, you didn't actually address the point raised against you, which is this:

Even if you acknowledge that these people are criminals and the accepted punishment for their crime is deportation, that does not mean you need to be cruel and callous in your application of that punishment. You can deport someone without being a heartless asshole to them, as pretty much every prior administration has managed to prove.


Wait, how do they pay payroll tax when they have no SSN? They're forced to work under the table because of that
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darkknight109
08/05/18 5:13:42 PM
#136:


Revelation34 posted...
darkknight109 posted...
The relationship between illegal immigration and crime has been extensively studied and an overwhelming majority of analyses indicate that illegal immigrants commit crime at markedly lower rates than native-born citizens. This, again, makes logical sense. The majority of those immigrating are doing so for the improved economic opportunity the US offers; to that end, it is not in their interest to risk coming to the attention of the authorities and being deported by committing crimes. An influx of illegal immigration has actually been noted to result in a decrease in violent crime.


There are more native citizens than illegal immigrants in any country is why that makes logical sense.

So... do you just not know what a "crime rate" is?

lihlih posted...
Wait, how do they pay payroll tax when they have no SSN? They're forced to work under the table because of that

The process is explained in greater detail here:

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/

tl;dr - for payroll taxes, they can just submit under a fake SSN. An employer withholds payroll taxes for all employees, legal or not, and submits them to the government. In theory the IRS could launch an investigation of an employer/employees who submit under false SSNs, but that rarely happens, since the IRS is more interested in going after people who aren't paying at all.

For tax returns, they can just use an ITIN, no SSN required.
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Revelation34
08/05/18 5:36:28 PM
#137:


darkknight109 posted...
So... do you just not know what a "crime rate" is?


If there were more illegal immigrants in a country than citizens then the crime rate for illegals would be higher.
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Rasmoh
08/05/18 6:21:03 PM
#138:


darkknight109 posted...
Illegal immigrants are net payers into the social welfare system. They pay things like sales tax and payroll tax, just like everyone else, and thereby help to pay for programs that they are ineligible to take advantage of, such as Social Security and Medicare. In other words, if, tomorrow, every illegal immigrant in America decided to self-deport, the government would suffer a net loss of about $7 billion a year.


That's the dictionary definition of a manipulated statistic and you know it. Illegal immigrants may pay in more than they consume as a stand-alone statistic, but their 5 children who are "legal" courtesy of 14th amendment loophole bullshit demolish that gap thanks to food stamps, medicaid, welfare housing, translation services, etc. Not to mention they jack up prices in non-tax related situations in areas such as emergency rooms and housing markets. If illegals and their "legal" children all self-deported, the relief on pretty much every system we have would be staggering.

The relationship between illegal immigration and crime has been extensively studied and an overwhelming majority of analyses indicate that illegal immigrants commit crime at markedly lower rates than native-born citizens.


Literally impossible because 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals. And again, their children drive up these crime rates but get lumped into the native-born citizen category to further the disparity. Each and every one of these farcical "studies" would crumble to the fucking ground if they didn't manipulate these statistics, after all.

The idea that immigrants suppress wages is the only one of the points you brought up that is at least debatable. Studies have shown mixed results, but the general trend is that wage suppression as a result of illegal immigration is either extremely minor or non-existent. In addition, illegal immigrants tend to do work in areas that native-born citizens refuse to work in (such as agriculture), either because of low pay, the brutal nature of the job, or both.


Illegals have made shitloads of industries unworkable for normal citizens because they're willing to be modern day slaves, which drives down wages and work conditions. Of course, leftists love slave labor so this isn't a problem for them. And again, their children increase competition in the overall labor pool, which suppresses wages across all industries because of a surplus of labor.

You can deport someone without being a heartless asshole to them, as pretty much every prior administration has managed to prove.


The problem is that not being quick and callous against criminals results in a horrifically bloated system that ends up rewarding criminal behavior. Literally every system of criminal punishment that doesn't quickly punish and remove criminals is bloated to the point of nigh-ineffectiveness. The modern phenomena of jerking off criminals and making excuses for their behavior is careening us down a path of collapse because we're literally not going to have the resources to punish people for extremely heinous crimes. It's already happening in justice departments across the country. We're killing ourselves with misplaced kindness.
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Revelation34
08/05/18 6:23:45 PM
#139:


Rasmoh posted...
The problem is that not being quick and callous against criminals results in a horrifically bloated system that ends up rewarding criminal behavior. Literally every system of criminal punishment that doesn't quickly punish and remove criminals is bloated to the point of nigh-ineffectiveness. The modern phenomena of jerking off criminals and making excuses for their behavior is careening us down a path of collapse because we're literally not going to have the resources to punish people for extremely heinous crimes. It's already happening in justice departments across the country. We're killing ourselves with misplaced kindness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M" data-time="

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darkknight109
08/05/18 9:13:08 PM
#140:


Revelation34 posted...
darkknight109 posted...
So... do you just not know what a "crime rate" is?


If there were more illegal immigrants in a country than citizens then the crime rate for illegals would be higher.

So you don't know. Got it.

Here's the explanation: crime rates are adjusted for population. The raw number of people (or crimes) doesn't matter - it's the number of crimes committed per 100k people.

Try again.

Rasmoh posted...
Illegal immigrants may pay in more than they consume as a stand-alone statistic, but their 5 children who are "legal" courtesy of 14th amendment loophole bullshit demolish that gap thanks to food stamps, medicaid, welfare housing, translation services, etc.

You're moving the goalposts because you're no longer talking about illegal immigrants - now you're just talking about legal citizens.

Regardless, I'm interested in seeing a source on this "staggering" burden, because I've never come across any such analysis.

Rasmoh posted...
Literally impossible because 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals.

You know what the fuck I meant by that - don't be obtuse, you're smarter than this.

Rasmoh posted...
And again, their children drive up these crime rates but get lumped into the native-born citizen category to further the disparity.

Wrong. While the children of illegal immigrants do have higher crime rates than their parents, they are not higher than the national average. It typically takes between one and two generations for crime rates to "normalize"; at no point are the rates for immigrants and their children, including illegal immigrants, higher than the general population.
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darkknight109
08/05/18 9:16:20 PM
#141:


Rasmoh posted...
Illegals have made shitloads of industries unworkable for normal citizens because they're willing to be modern day slaves, which drives down wages and work conditions.

And yet, in areas where immigrants (legal or otherwise) are removed from industries (whether that be through ICE raids or political actions like Brexit), the market fails to self-correct. Even when the employers go on hiring blitzes and hike wages, native-born citizens are simply uninterested in much of the work being offered.

Rasmoh posted...
And again, their children increase competition in the overall labor pool, which suppresses wages across all industries because of a surplus of labor.

The US unemployment rate is currently 3.9%. That is not, by any stretch, a surplus of labour.

If you want to understand why wages are stagnant, you might turn an eye towards how the Republican party has spent the last few decades slowly but steadily gutting the ability of unions to negotiate for better conditions. The correlation of anti-union laws and wage inequality is so perfectly negative it may as well be causal.

Rasmoh posted...
The problem is that not being quick and callous against criminals results in a horrifically bloated system that ends up rewarding criminal behavior. Literally every system of criminal punishment that doesn't quickly punish and remove criminals is bloated to the point of nigh-ineffectiveness.

Meanwhile, in Norway, a system built around rehabilitation of criminals, where they are allowed to live in cabins, get treatment for addiction and anger issues, and learn trades to improve their employability upon release, has been so successful that the country is having to shut down prisons because it no longer incarcerates enough people to fill them.

Their recidivism rate is less than 20%. By comparison, the US - with one of the most punitive justice systems in the developed world - has a recidivism rate of 77%.

Let that sink in for a moment. If prisons were a black box, where criminals go in one end and productive citizens are supposed to come out of the other, the US has a success rate of just 23%. If almost four out of every five products coming out of a factory were defective, that factory would be closed in a heartbeat - but America just accepts this state of affairs despite a plainly better method being available.

Surprise! When you actually bother to help criminals get skills that allow them to live in a non-criminal fashion, they tend to actually be productive!
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Rasmoh
08/06/18 12:10:55 AM
#143:


darkknight109 posted...
You're moving the goalposts because you're no longer talking about illegal immigrants - now you're just talking about legal citizens.

Regardless, I'm interested in seeing a source on this "staggering" burden, because I've never come across any such analysis.


It's not moving the goalposts when you play the Statistical Omission game to masquerade the negative effects of illegal immigration. If these illegals weren't here, their "legal" children wouldn't be chomping up public resources paid for by law-abiding citizens.

Here's a source: https://cis.org/sites/default/files/camarota-welfare-illegals_1.pdf

You know what the fuck I meant by that - don't be obtuse, you're smarter than this.


I'm not being obtuse, you're adding a moronic qualifier to make a bogus statement seem credible. "If you exclude the crime they're committing, they don't commit as much crime!"

Wrong. While the children of illegal immigrants do have higher crime rates than their parents, they are not higher than the national average. It typically takes between one and two generations for crime rates to "normalize"; at no point are the rates for immigrants and their children, including illegal immigrants, higher than the general population.


Illegal immigrants commit more crimes by default, so there's one part down. I can't find any statistics on crimes committed by the children of illegals, sadly. There are numerous potential reasons why this is the case of course, such as lack of reporting because victims are often illegals who fear punishment or family members who don't want to get the law involved. Not to mention the fact that most law enforcement agencies don't track this information. Regardless, considering that they shouldn't be here in the first place, any amount is too much.

And yet, in areas where immigrants (legal or otherwise) are removed from industries (whether that be through ICE raids or political actions like Brexit), the market fails to self-correct.


Gee golly jeepers, you mean to tell me that decades of slave labor resulting in suppressed wages and shit working conditions isn't something that corrects itself quickly? It's a no-brainer, especially when you consider the ripple effect it has in driving people into other industries, thus expanding labor pools in more or less every field. Considering that illegal immigration is still widely used to import slave labor, we're not going to see the market self-correct because the issue still hasn't been resolved nor has enough time passed to fix the employment issues caused by illegals.

If you want to understand why wages are stagnant


There are a multitude of reasons why wages are stagnant, huge amounts of available labor being just one of the larger reasons. Technological innovations, jobs becoming obsolete, outsourcing, etc. Unions also tend to be rife with corruption with a large focus on appeasing senior members of the the unions. And again, huge amounts of workers being available means that unions have even less bargaining power.

Meanwhile, in Norway,


Norway is not comparable to the US in any way. Not only is it overwhelmingly more ethnically homogeneous, it also is overwhelmingly smaller. A segment of our population that totals more than 7 times the total population of Norway revels in a culture that glorifies crime and treats it like a goal to aspire to. We have an unsecured border with a cartel-ran narco-state. Being the largest consumer nation in the world, we also have much more opportunity for people to be career criminals, especially since most crimes are met with slaps on the wrist (though we do have a lot of crimes that shouldn't be crimes, primarily drug possession).
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CacciatoPart3
08/06/18 12:29:48 AM
#144:


Rasmoh posted...
revels in a culture that glorifies crime and treats it like a goal to aspire to.

Found the racist.
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darkknight109
08/06/18 1:05:47 AM
#145:


Rasmoh posted...
Not only is it overwhelmingly more ethnically homogeneous

Rasmoh posted...
A segment of our population that totals more than 7 times the total population of Norway revels in a culture that glorifies crime and treats it like a goal to aspire to

Sorry, but if this is where you're taking this debate, I'm out.

Racist horseshit like this does not merit a serious response.
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Rasmoh
08/06/18 2:35:58 AM
#146:


darkknight109 posted...
Racist horseshit like this does not merit a serious response.


It's not racism. Numerous studies have indicated that ethnically homogeneous societies have higher levels of trust, lower levels of crime, higher social cohesion, and an increased willingness to help people. This is largely because societal progress has rapidly outpaced human evolution. We are still tribal creatures on an instinctual level, despite how much we like to pretend that isn't so. This translates into people being more willing to do things like try and rehabilitate criminals. Never mind things like population issues and bordering countries that make comparing the US to Norway increasingly absurd.

And again, it's not racism to point out the largely toxic mindset pushed in modern black American culture and to a lesser extent, Hispanic culture. It's not only considered acceptable, but encouraged, in many black communities to drop out of school, sell drugs, rob people, and do drive-bys on people for wearing the wrong colored shirt. It's considered "acting white" to obey the law and do honest work to improve your life. This is coupled with the fact that there's a huge push in media and academia towards denying that blacks are culpable in any way. The utter lack of introspection destroys black communities across the country because change starts from within.
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Revelation34
08/06/18 5:53:33 AM
#147:


darkknight109 posted...
So you don't know. Got it.

Here's the explanation: crime rates are adjusted for population. The raw number of people (or crimes) doesn't matter - it's the number of crimes committed per 100k people.

Try again.


I guess you love being wrong.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
08/07/18 3:16:47 AM
#148:


CacciatoPart3 posted...
Rasmoh posted...
revels in a culture that glorifies crime and treats it like a goal to aspire to.

Found the racist.

Lmao. P much my tag for him. "Obtuse racist"
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ClarkDuke
08/08/18 1:17:06 AM
#149:


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PuddingBoy
08/08/18 2:02:49 AM
#150:


Racists gotta be racist, I suppose
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ClarkDuke
08/09/18 5:20:05 AM
#151:


PuddingBoy posted...
Racists gotta be racist, I suppose

It's is his constitutional right, ok?
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