Board 8 > What RPG has the worst final dungeon?

(+) Yeah! (+)

which is why it's not a dungeon

two long corridors isn't a dungeon in FFXII

not even in FFX
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I mean, if you have to argue whether or not it even manages to count as a dungeon then that's a good sign it's a terrible dungeon.
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Grand Kirby posted...

I mean, if you have to argue whether or not it even manages to count as a dungeon then that's a good sign it's a terrible dungeon.

No, it isn't.
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Axl_Rose_85 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

MZero11 posted...

Final Fantasy VIII was my first thought

FFVIII is one of the best final dungeons in the series.

Also this. FFVIII has arguably the best final dungeon in a JRPG.

Yeah the final dungeon might be the best part of VIII tbqh
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NFUN posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

I mean, if you have to argue whether or not it even manages to count as a dungeon then that's a good sign it's a terrible dungeon.

No, it isn't.

I was originally going to say Suikoden 1, but then I thought that the final area probably didn't count as a dungeon.

Wanted to say Berseria, but FFIII is the answer.

Only game where the final dungeon made me quit playing. Played the whole game only to just give up at the end.
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Grand Kirby posted...

I mean, if you have to argue whether or not it even manages to count as a dungeon then that's a good sign it's a terrible dungeon.

Well, if it's not a dungeon, it's not a terrible dungeon since it's not a dungeon at all.

And let's be honest, the Death Sta-- I mean Bahamut is not a dungeon. It's a Cutscene area and a Boss Arena.
It's like the Tower of Salvation entrance in Symphonia. It's Not a Dungeon- it's just an area where cutscenes happen and Bosses are fought.
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pjbasis posted...

malyg posted...

i thought Grandia's final dungeon was an utter slog, but that might be because I think that game dragged on too long anyway

I played this game kinda recently and I don't remember what it was. But yeah the game had lots of charm but was soooooo draggy and slow.

this except played it 7 years ago.
not sure the final dungeon was too much worse than the game's dungeons in general, though!
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AxemRedRanger posted...

pjbasis posted...

malyg posted...

i thought Grandia's final dungeon was an utter slog, but that might be because I think that game dragged on too long anyway

I played this game kinda recently and I don't remember what it was. But yeah the game had lots of charm but was soooooo draggy and slow.

this except played it 7 years ago.
not sure the final dungeon was too much worse than the game's dungeons in general, though!

The final dungeon is not even quarter as bad as the Tower of Temptation. That dungeon is a strong contender for worst JRPG dungeon of all time. The only upside is that it is optional.

TheGoddamnSanta posted...

I only played the ds FFIII and I don't remember this issue.. they fixed that right?

I'm guessing you suppressed the memory.
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FF3 was bad but it's being a bit overhyped. I think a lot of people must have had bad teamcomps going in and didn't switch to any Sages or Ninjas or something
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Almost everybody uses the Ninjas and best healer class in the final dungeon. It still doesnt save it from being a terrible final dungeon because nobody likes the inability to save and finish it at their own pace

Definitely SMT4 Apocalypse, especially relative to the rest of the game. Such an endless slog, and the level design is awful.
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Lopen posted...

FF3 was bad but it's being a bit overhyped. I think a lot of people must have had bad teamcomps going in and didn't switch to any Sages or Ninjas or something

Well, the game froze on me during it, so there's that.
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CasanovaZelos posted...

Definitely SMT4 Apocalypse, especially relative to the rest of the game. Such an endless slog, and the level design is awful.

This

To add to it, the music is repetitive and boring beyond belief, and the lighting on the floor and background becomes headache inducing after a while. And it's on a portable system! I've only ever played it sitting at home, I can't imagine trying to play it on a bus or in a car or something, I'm pretty sure I'd get sick if I tried.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Maybe Xenosaga Episode I?

although the dungeons in that game are all pretty terrible because they're too big and random encounters take too long

You sure you're not mixing that up with Episode II?
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Episode II at least had a good battle system so no

plus it's much shorter overall than Episode I
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LeonhartFour posted...

Episode II at least had a good battle system so no

It had a great battle system for bosses, but it was atrociously tedious for random encounters.

Episode I on the other hand I one-shotted most random battles in the second half because Junior was so ridiculously broken, so I definitely wouldn't ever describe them as taking too long from my experience.
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swordz9 posted...

Almost everybody uses the Ninjas and best healer class in the final dungeon. It still doesnt save it from being a terrible final dungeon because nobody likes the inability to save and finish it at their own pace

Basically. Any RPG that has a section that long that you can't save during is a a bad game. The final dungeon alone retroacticely kills any chance FF3 had of being even kinda good. Even if it was easy it would still be bad.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Basically. Any RPG that has a section that long that you can't save during is a a bad game. The final dungeon alone retroacticely kills any chance FF3 had of being even kinda good. Even if it was easy it would still be bad.

I mean it's not like you can save in the final dungeons of FF1 or FF2 either, and FF4 has a really long stretch after the last save point too. FF3 just gets flak because unlike those games, the final dungeon/boss is hard on top of that (and I can't really fault people for having that opinion, for all that I was just young enough when I played FF3 that the idea of redoing the final dungeon a few times didn't bother me).
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I just played through the final dungeon in FF13 and it sucked especially. It was just a bunch of blocks with no structure, flashing lights, and weird stuff happening. I didn't mind the fights itself, but the dungeon was annoying to look at and move through. It was pretty emblematic of the game as a whole though.
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NeoElfboy posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Basically. Any RPG that has a section that long that you can't save during is a a bad game. The final dungeon alone retroacticely kills any chance FF3 had of being even kinda good. Even if it was easy it would still be bad.

I mean it's not like you can save in the final dungeons of FF1 or FF2 either, and FF4 has a really long stretch after the last save point too. FF3 just gets flak because unlike those games, the final dungeon/boss is hard on top of that (and I can't really fault people for having that opinion, for all that I was just young enough when I played FF3 that the idea of redoing the final dungeon a few times didn't bother me).

In the remakes of 1 and 2 you can.

You CAN'T in FF3's remake. That's kind of a special kind of awfulness. They had the chance to improve it and they didn't.
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The only enjoyable version of FF3s final dungeons stretch is the FF XIV version

Inevitably someone screws up though
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Xenogears final dungeon is so bad, it made me wish I was just looking at a guy in a chair.
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You also dont have to do 5 other difficult bosses before the final one with no chance to return and heal up in 1, 2 and 4

(Technically in 1 you refight the fiends, but all but 1 of them should be a total joke by that point in the game)
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Legend of Dragoon

The b.s. of the individual character bosses just suck
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WazzupGenius00 posted...

You also dont have to do 5 other difficult bosses before the final one with no chance to return and heal up in 1, 2 and 4

(Technically in 1 you refight the fiends, but all but 1 of them should be a total joke by that point in the game)

Yeah that's kinda my point. In FF1-2 those final dungeon bosses (and the final in FF2's case) are easy-peasy while FF3's is not, so it's a bigger problem in FF3 despite the core design principles being the same.

I actually liked FF3's final dungeon better because it had teeth but I 100% get why one wouldn't.

Grand Kirby posted...

You CAN'T in FF3's remake. That's kind of a special kind of awfulness. They had the chance to improve it and they didn't.

Yeah this is very fair. The PSX versions of FF1-2 are actually good remakes which improve the games in a few ways while being faithful to them. DS FF3 is kind of a mess and I'm not going to defend it.
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NeoElfboy posted...

Yeah that's kinda my point. In FF1-2 those final dungeon bosses (and the final in FF2's case) are easy-peasy while FF3's is not, so it's a bigger problem in FF3 despite the core design principles being the same.

Who is the 1? Lich? I'd sooner say Kary is a jobber than say the rematches are easy-peasy. The other 3 all can present their own problems unless you're overleveled.
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