Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 445: This is (Vince McMahon's) America

(+) Yeah! (+)

Big Cass is like the world's worst child cartoon villain. What is this nonsense?
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Big Cass is like the world's worst child cartoon villain. What is this nonsense?

This is WWE!
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Totally down for Pole on a Pole
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LOL one of Sonyas entrance facts is Lives with her best friend Mandy Rose
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I do not like either of the Absolution girls' entrances.
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How long until Mandy's character is a porn star
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Fun Fact: Sonya Deville is dating Seth Rollins ex.

(The Nazi MLP drawing one)
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Jakyl25 posted...

Fun Fact: Sonya Deville is dating Seth Rollins ex.

(The Nazi MLP drawing one)

Wait, did she draw them or just retweet them?
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She shared the drawing (and another photo of Nazi memorabilia) on Instagram

To be fair this was MANY years ago
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as for why I went with Rollins vs Balor, i'd love to see Balor as champion again. since his first time didn't go so well.

at this point (at least for my opinion), anyone is better than Reigns or Lesnar. yeah, I know Reigns will eventually get it, and Lesnar really doesn't defend that much
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This entire setup of winner picks the stip is so ass backwards

If we could get a winner, we wouldnt NEED a stip
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I love it when the heel does the fake out
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According to 205 Live, half of the 2nd Annual WWE UK Tournament will be revealed tomorrow
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Nakamura is spreading:

https://twitter.com/shinsuken/status/996504161066864643?s=21
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Nakamura is spreading:

https://twitter.com/shinsuken/status/996504161066864643?s=21

That is hilarious
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Interesting. If the dirtsheets are to be believed, after Emmalina crashed and burned, Vince decided that Mandy Rose was going to be the Emmalina character. That definitely makes sense.
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It hadnt occurred to me that there would be wrestling fans with just enough knowledge to be this ignorant

https://twitter.com/itsgrammarian/status/996554924086448128?s=21
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Damn WWE ripping off NJPW again.
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Jakyl25 posted...

It hadnt occurred to me that there would be wrestling fans with just enough knowledge to be this ignorant

https://twitter.com/itsgrammarian/status/996554924086448128?s=21

What did he do that got this response
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Interesting. If the dirtsheets are to be believed, after Emmalina crashed and burned, Vince decided that Mandy Rose was going to be the Emmalina character. That definitely makes sense.

Was the Emmalina gimmick to have an entrance where she moves like a toddler that just learned how to walk and is afraid of falling?
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ScareChan posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It hadnt occurred to me that there would be wrestling fans with just enough knowledge to be this ignorant

https://twitter.com/itsgrammarian/status/996554924086448128?s=21

What did he do that got this response

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0Pm_I7UoAAu5Y3.jpg
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

Interesting. If the dirtsheets are to be believed, after Emmalina crashed and burned, Vince decided that Mandy Rose was going to be the Emmalina character. That definitely makes sense.

Was the Emmalina gimmick to have an entrance where she moves like a toddler that just learned how to walk and is afraid of falling?

If I recall correctly, she was supposed to be more like the attitude era Divas where they were about looks and showing off their body and not about actual in ring ability. They hyped it for so long but Emma wasn't good enough to play that character, so she went from Emma to Emmalina back to Emma before getting released. The Emmalina thing lasted all of 4 seconds after months of vignettes.

Mandy seems to fit as far as having someone with the look, but not the overall ability.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Its all leading to Seth getting the next shot at Lesnar, followed by Roman smashing him in the back with a chair

Full circle

Someone also suggested that Roman wins his way into MITB, wins said match, and cashes in on Rollins after he beats Lesnar.

That being said, I know that won't happen
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https://twitter.com/codyrhodes/status/996803966699745280?s=21

These Russo fans are insufferable

I love his tantrum too after Cody told him off:

Vince Russo is responsible for giving WWE & Tna their highest ratings. You all keep shitting on him and its sick. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Russo was best for business. And stop saying he killed wcw... when really it was others thats really to blame.

It is amazing what even bad con men like Russo can get people to believe and fight other people for
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To be fair Russo didn't kill WCW that much I will argue to the death on

Hell by the time Russo showed up it was a marked improvement. And that's not to say Russo WCW was any good.
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Lopen posted...

To be fair Russo didn't kill WCW that much I will argue to the death on

Hell by the time Russo showed up it was a marked improvement. And that's not to say Russo WCW was any good.

And you'd be wrong.... TO THE DEATH....

Russo lost 62,000,000....

5 million a month....
1.25 million a week
Nearly 200,000 a day....

He killed the profits they had made in the ENTIRE HISTORY of JCP, GCW, NWAWCW, WCWNWO, and WCW in a year...

That is killing a company.

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Lopen posted...

To be fair Russo didn't kill WCW that much I will argue to the death on

Hell by the time Russo showed up it was a marked improvement. And that's not to say Russo WCW was any good.

And you'd be wrong.... TO THE DEATH....

Russo lost 62,000,000....

5 million a month....
1.25 million a week
Nearly 200,000 a day....

He killed the profits they had made in the ENTIRE HISTORY of JCP, GCW, NWAWCW, WCWNWO, and WCW in a year...

That is killing a company.

You have to remember that they lost money in that year prior to Russo coming in. He came in to WCW in September. 1999 already was seeing a marked decrease in profits. Russo can be blamed for the ratings, but he really can't be blamed for the terrible contractual work Eric Bischoff had unintentionally started prior to the Monday Night Wars. It was gathering serious steam and without seeing any recoup on the back end in terms of house shows (something Bischoff and WCW brass are more to blame than Russo during his reign), it's possible to blame some others for creating the financial situation in which Russo only exacerbated a problem rather than create it entirely.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Lopen posted...

To be fair Russo didn't kill WCW that much I will argue to the death on

Hell by the time Russo showed up it was a marked improvement. And that's not to say Russo WCW was any good.

And you'd be wrong.... TO THE DEATH....

Russo lost 62,000,000....

5 million a month....
1.25 million a week
Nearly 200,000 a day....

He killed the profits they had made in the ENTIRE HISTORY of JCP, GCW, NWAWCW, WCWNWO, and WCW in a year...

That is killing a company.

You have to remember that they lost money in that year prior to Russo coming in. He came in to WCW in September. 1999 already was seeing a marked decrease in profits. Russo can be blamed for the ratings, but he really can't be blamed for the terrible contractual work Eric Bischoff had unintentionally started prior to the Monday Night Wars. It was gathering serious steam and without seeing any recoup on the back end in terms of house shows (something Bischoff and WCW brass are more to blame than Russo during his reign), it's possible to blame some others for creating the financial situation in which Russo only exacerbated a problem rather than create it entirely.

They lost 62,000,000 in 2000, not 99.

99 I think they only lose like 8 million. (Could be wrong). Russo guaranteed had a month he lost 8 million in 2000, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if WCW either slightly made money, or were just barely bleeding in 99 before Russo came in and lost them 8 million in 3 months. But again, I don't know the 99 breakdown.

UInstinctGogeta posted...

They lost 62,000,000 in 2000, not 99.

99 I think they only lose like 8 million. (Could be wrong). Russo guaranteed had a month he lost 8 million in 2000, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if WCW either slightly made money, or were just barely bleeding in 99 before Russo came in and lost them 8 million in 3 months. But again, I don't know the 99 breakdown.

I'm more bringing up 99 because a lot of the money problems stem from 99 and 98 where contract renewals and hirings led to a bloat in the budget.

And Thunder was a terribly executed idea which should get some of the blame for the death of WCW.
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Fairly certain WCW lost way more than 8 million in 1999. I can't CONFIRM it but yeah you look at what WCW was foing for business, what they were wasting money on before and after Russo, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. The seeds were long since planted.

Wrestling is one of those things where it takes time to really feel the impact of failures and successes. You don't see the effects on ratings or ticket sales or whatever of bad product immediately, and a lot of the spending is in the form of contracts which you don't feel immediately. It takes time for people to give up, and in the case of tickets they're bought months in advance.

Watch some early 1999 WCW and you will instantly realize why they went under. They had 300 contracts and were wheeling out Lash Leroux, Jerry Flynn, and Vincent out every week when the other show had actual stars.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

They lost 62,000,000 in 2000, not 99.

99 I think they only lose like 8 million. (Could be wrong). Russo guaranteed had a month he lost 8 million in 2000, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if WCW either slightly made money, or were just barely bleeding in 99 before Russo came in and lost them 8 million in 3 months. But again, I don't know the 99 breakdown.

I'm more bringing up 99 because a lot of the money problems stem from 99 and 98 where contract renewals and hirings led to a bloat in the budget.

And Thunder was a terribly executed idea which should get some of the blame for the death of WCW.

Not really...

They were forced by Ted to do Thunder. They didn't have a choice on this one. Trust me, to a man everyone hated it (except Bret Hart, made him rich).

TW didn't cancel them cause Thunder was a flop. And had TW not taken over Ted wouldn't have punished WCW for something he forced on them.

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Not really...

They were forced by Ted to do Thunder. They didn't have a choice on this one. Trust me, to a man everyone hated it (except Bret Hart, made him rich).

TW didn't cancel them cause Thunder was a flop. And had TW not taken over Ted wouldn't have punished WCW for something he forced on them.

What you said doesn't contradict my point.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Not really...

They were forced by Ted to do Thunder. They didn't have a choice on this one. Trust me, to a man everyone hated it (except Bret Hart, made him rich).

TW didn't cancel them cause Thunder was a flop. And had TW not taken over Ted wouldn't have punished WCW for something he forced on them.

What you said doesn't contradict my point.

It does... because I'm saying badly executed or not, it didn't contribute to their demise, unless you want to claim either Ted would have shit canned the company for his stupid idea, or that Thunder's failures is what made TW say hell no.

If you can show me Thunder was responsible for like 80% of their loss and Nitro was profitable I'll agree with you for certain, maybe TW did just kill it cause of Thunder. But I doubt that's true.

UInstinctGogeta posted...

It does... because I'm saying badly executed or not, it didn't contribute to their demise, unless you want to claim either Ted would have shit canned the company for his stupid idea, or that Thunder's failures is what made TW say hell no.

If you can show me Thunder was responsible for like 80% of their loss and Nitro was profitable I'll agree with you for certain, maybe TW did just kill it cause of Thunder. But I doubt that's true.

Thunder contributed to the demise in this way: it diluted the talent from one show to the next. It inundated fans in a time when the creative team couldn't handle booking for that many shows. Everyone from Bischoff to Sullivan to Nash have said repeatedly that they couldn't create enough interesting content for both shows. It burned them all out. It caused the company to pay its talent either more. It decreased interest in house show attendance at the time due to more available product to consume. Thunder brought in less ad revenue for WCW's books than Nitro but cost as much to produce. With Thunder burning out creative team after creative team, they were forced to turn to a new source for creative, and that was Vince Russo.
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Thunder caused a lot of the booking blunders which tanked the product which ultimately put WCW under due to not drawing profits in to offset their bloated spending.

It's not a direct "this put WCW under" thing. It was reckless spending from a boom they could not sustain. The boom was unsustainable well before Russo showed up. WCW was dropping off as early as 1998. Ultimately you need to blame whoever was signing the contracts then or whoever was writing the shows then. Russo being unable to right the ship doesn't mean he killed WCW
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scarletspeed7 posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

It does... because I'm saying badly executed or not, it didn't contribute to their demise, unless you want to claim either Ted would have shit canned the company for his stupid idea, or that Thunder's failures is what made TW say hell no.

If you can show me Thunder was responsible for like 80% of their loss and Nitro was profitable I'll agree with you for certain, maybe TW did just kill it cause of Thunder. But I doubt that's true.

Thunder contributed to the demise in this way: it diluted the talent from one show to the next. It inundated fans in a time when the creative team couldn't handle booking for that many shows. Everyone from Bischoff to Sullivan to Nash have said repeatedly that they couldn't create enough interesting content for both shows. It burned them all out. It caused the company to pay its talent either more. It decreased interest in house show attendance at the time due to more available product to consume. Thunder brought in less ad revenue for WCW's books than Nitro but cost as much to produce. With Thunder burning out creative team after creative team, they were forced to turn to a new source for creative, and that was Vince Russo.

Well.... you win. CAN't argue that.

Put it another way

Hire Vince Russo early 1998 and it's very possible WCW actually does better overall.

I think they're going under either way because the spending is ultimately the problem which isn't on the booker, but I the show quality in late 1999 WCW on is much better tham early 1999 WCW, which can't hurt their chances.
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Lopen posted...

Thunder caused a lot of the booking blunders which tanked the product which ultimately put WCW under due to not drawing profits in to offset their bloated spending.

It's not a direct "this put WCW under" thing. It was reckless spending from a boom they could not sustain. The boom was unsustainable well before Russo showed up. WCW was dropping off as early as 1998. Ultimately you need to blame whoever was signing the contracts then or whoever was writing the shows then. Russo being unable to right the ship doesn't mean he killed WCW

Its true that Russo inherited a sinking ship

But by the end of his 2000 run, he had, through his creative, sped up the monetary decline by killing attendance across the board.

No singular entity is to blame for the death of WCW, but Russo certainly isnt blameless.
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And oh my god his defense of I dont care about profits or losses, I only cared about ratings because that was my job is UGHHHHH
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I will give Bischoff the most blame though

He had power, but he still let the inmates run the asylum because he wanted to be one of the boys more than he cared about long term company success.

Say what you want about Vince and Hunter, but THAT particular pitfall has never even entered their mind.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Lopen posted...

Thunder caused a lot of the booking blunders which tanked the product which ultimately put WCW under due to not drawing profits in to offset their bloated spending.

It's not a direct "this put WCW under" thing. It was reckless spending from a boom they could not sustain. The boom was unsustainable well before Russo showed up. WCW was dropping off as early as 1998. Ultimately you need to blame whoever was signing the contracts then or whoever was writing the shows then. Russo being unable to right the ship doesn't mean he killed WCW

Its true that Russo inherited a sinking ship

But by the end of his 2000 run, he had, through his creative, sped up the monetary decline by killing attendance across the board.

No singular entity is to blame for the death of WCW, but Russo certainly isnt blameless.

I'll use Alvarez and Reynolds for this here....

I think they place far FAR too much blame on Bischoff....
About the right amount on Russo
Not fucking nearly enough on god damn Kevin Sullivan
Probably too much on Nash and not enough on Hogan.
Not enough on Watts or any of the old guard.
Not enough on Sting.
Not enough on Luger
Not enough on Crockett Jr.
Not near enough on Magnum's accident, and also not near enough on killing the Tag belts that once meant as much as that damn world title did.

To me, yes it was a group effort, but Hogan and Russo deserve a lion share of the blame. Pretty well proven when the assholes did it AGAIN to TNA...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Not fucking nearly enough on god damn Kevin Sullivan

It's really tough to pin much blame on a guy whose biggest mistakes came before the boom period.
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Unrelated: https://twitter.com/MithGifs/status/996761334652985344

Sami and Kevin just floor me in the variety of ways they can play their characters.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Unrelated: https://twitter.com/MithGifs/status/996761334652985344

Sami and Kevin just floor me in the variety of ways they can play their characters.

IM NOT IMPRESSED is so perfect
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Those two keep getting better
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Russo defense forces continues to attack Cody

... Suck a dick. Guy worked with your brother extensively, and helped him with a character that is still over to this day. In fact, one of the ONLY characters in the business today. What the hell is you and the Bucks character now? Appease Dave Meltzer? Fuck off, you turncoat.

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I don't think Russo is blameless, exactly, but I do think he gets a lot more blame than he deserves.

Like I would argue he did actually improve the situation marginally. They just needed a lot more than marginally at the time. I don't think any booker could've actually saved WCW at that time. If they'd been brought in early 1998, yeah maybe. But the downward momentum when Russo inherited the thing was incredible and just staying the course would've probably been even worse.
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How many burner accounts do you think Russo has
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Lopen posted...

Like I would argue he did actually improve the situation marginally.

How would you argue this, exactly?
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