Board 8 > Weird realization: Tales of Beseria is the JRPG of Atlas Shrugged

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm going to intentionally keep this as spoiler free as possible (for tales of beseria)

Thinking about the book today, I couldn't help but realize how much Velvet reminds me of Dagny Taggart, which lead me to realize the book and the game have almost the exact same themes. A group of innovators motivated by self-interest come together to stop the entire world from stagnating. The entire game is basically an exploration of the ineffectiveness of government mingling, while the anarchists continue to seek self improvement towards their own goals throughout the story.

Similar themes:

- Characters from both media use the phrase "Don't expect me to apologize" as a catchphrase
- The concept of striving to surpass a goal, and the peace of being surpassed by someone who works harder than you is repeatedly driven through both stories
- Using "Reason" as a buzzword to destroy all reason

It's pretty cool that the best tales game ever is a rousing endorsement of capitalism!

On another note, the incredible repetition of ideals as catchphrases is a trademark of both Rand novels and Tales games alike! I bet Ayn is kicking herself for not thinking of the phrase "courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality"
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of course Magilou was already fully aware of all of this so that image is 100% perfect
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You know I had forgotten why you were someone I had a negative opinion of.

This was a really good reminder.
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what we are totally buds
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That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy where Ayn Rand is directly responsible for the wave of people who treat sociopathy as a philosophy to pursue.
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BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy where Ayn Rand is directly responsible for the wave of people who treat sociopathy as a philosophy to pursue.

Yeah this is the main reason this is so face slappingly dumb.
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EmoCombeeDancin posted...

Using "Reason" as a buzzword to destroy all reason

Eddv posted...

Board 8's Voice of Reason

Too perfect
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oh god i don't want to play this game now
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I don't know Beseria or Atlas Shrugged at all but that is one of the best second posts I've ever seen
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BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy where Ayn Rand is directly responsible for the wave of people who treat sociopathy as a philosophy to pursue.

It's understandable that you might think this way never reading a Rand book, but it's a poor summary of her philosophy. Rand is know for taking the standard question in philosophy "Are acts of empathy and altruism ultimately ones of self-interest?" and turning it on it's head: True acts of self interest are by their very nature empathetic and altruistic. I won't pretend I have the ability to break down a book that comes with the warning "team lift" into a gamefaqs post, but the general gist is "Do things for yourself first, take responsibility for your actions and hold those around you accountable to do the same, only then can you and those around you truly reach self-actualization."

All in all, I would say the tales game does a much better job illustrating the theme than the book, and since money isn't involved, it comes off as much less distasteful to it's viewers.
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EmoCombeeDancin posted...

"Do things for yourself first, take responsibility for your actions and hold those around you accountable to do the same, only then can you and those around you truly reach self-actualization."

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization.

As for me, I will judge Rand's books by the results, which is, as I said, a community of people who believe that sociopathy is the ideal state of human being.

And also her hypocrisy, being that she dehumanized people who have to rely on welfare while she, herself, had to rely on welfare.
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Drakeryn/Gatarix my esteemed friend and confidant and a bar licensed lawyer likes Velvet so I feel confident in liking her too.
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BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy

hrm i dunno about that


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iiicon posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy

hrm i dunno about that

-snip-

I did say "usually".

Though without further context for the scene, it still looks like it has more empathy than the entirety of Ayn Rand's works put together.
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This topic deserves to be Yomi Coffee'd
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BowserCuffs posted...

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization

Yeah at first reading atlas shrugged was bizarre since her villians in that story are clearly based on the type of people who worship her today.
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BowserCuffs posted...

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization.

Do this for all books and themes and now you're playing with power
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SantaRPidgey posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization

Yeah at first reading atlas shrugged was bizarre since her villians in that story are clearly based on the type of people who worship her today.

You mean like how people look at Star Trek, a series that's been pushing the envelope on progressiveness and runs counter to conservative philosophies, and go "Hmm, yes, clearly the heroes are Republicans and their enemies are lieberal feminasty demoncrats."?

Or am I giving Rand *way* too much credit with this comparison?
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Eddv posted...

You know I had forgotten why you were someone I had a negative opinion of.

This was a really good reminder.

Didn't he molest a little girl once? I thought that was why everyone hated him
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That definitely never happened
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BowserCuffs posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization

Yeah at first reading atlas shrugged was bizarre since her villians in that story are clearly based on the type of people who worship her today.

You mean like how people look at Star Trek, a series that's been pushing the envelope on progressiveness and runs counter to conservative philosophies, and go "Hmm, yes, clearly the heroes are Republicans and their enemies are lieberal feminasty demoncrats."?

Or am I giving Rand *way* too much credit with this comparison?

Basically anything even remarkably popular and quotable has been used by oppressors as justification for their actions.

Though progressiveness and divirsity aren't counter to actual conservative philosophies, though perhaps they are to Republican ones.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Didn't he molest a little girl once?

No? There's a running joke that he's a pedo but IIRC that's not actually based on anything
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Tom Bombadil posted...

Mac Arrowny posted...

Didn't he molest a little girl once?

not actually based on anything

lmao
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shut up zea
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it's definitely based on something.

Stuff like that just doesn't come out of nowhere
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I mean, it could come from somebody watching loli anime which, while depraved and sickening in nearly every manner, isn't the same as pedophilia
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Though progressiveness and divirsity aren't counter to actual conservative philosophies, though perhaps they are to Republican ones.

Very good point, though I will say that Gene Roddenberry definitely had some pretty extreme ideas about what his ideal utopia entailed (such as the complete elimination of all religion or spiritual beliefs, which thankfully later series toned down)

He was a massive jerk anyways, though.

NFUN posted...

I mean, it could come from somebody watching loli anime which, while depraved and sickening in nearly every manner, isn't the same as pedophilia

Pedophilia is the attraction to those that are underage - fiction or not.
While watching loli anime isn't necessarily an indication of pedophilia, it can still be a red flag. Though its mere existence is disturbing, especially when it goes... "fanservicey".

"Funnily" enough, Japan has a big problem with older men perving on underage girls with some shops even using younger girls to draw in that sort of crowd. It's almost like there's a connection between normalizing pedophilia and an increase in sexual assaults on underage people.
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okay the santa jokes have gone too far if we're seriously turning santa topics into pedo discussion topics because santa
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GuessMyUserName posted...

okay the santa jokes have gone too far if we're seriously turning santa topics into pedo discussion topics because santa

well the topic is also bad
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SantaRPidgey posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

If that's true then 99% of Randians completely missed the point because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions and think being a douchebag is self-actualization

Yeah at first reading atlas shrugged was bizarre since her villians in that story are clearly based on the type of people who worship her today.

This is a similar kind of relationship that the obnoxious Rick and Morty fans have with Rick - they want to be Rick even though he is pretty clearly a troubled person with serious problems.
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EmoCombeeDancin posted...

It's understandable that you might think this way never reading a Rand book, but it's a poor summary of her philosophy. Rand is know for taking the standard question in philosophy "Are acts of empathy and altruism ultimately ones of self-interest?" and turning it on it's head: True acts of self interest are by their very nature empathetic and altruistic. I won't pretend I have the ability to break down a book that comes with the warning "team lift" into a gamefaqs post, but the general gist is "Do things for yourself first, take responsibility for your actions and hold those around you accountable to do the same, only then can you and those around you truly reach self-actualization."

by the same token, is she also arguing that charity is actually NOT empathetic and makes people worse off or whatever?

i also don't understand at all how acts of self interest are empathetic.
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BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy where Ayn Rand is directly responsible for the wave of people who treat sociopathy as a philosophy to pursue.

People who enjoy Tales games are for sure sociopaths or otherwise numb to the extreme emotional trauma that is the writing in those games
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can vouch
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foolm0r0n posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

That's strange considering Tales games usually support empathy where Ayn Rand is directly responsible for the wave of people who treat sociopathy as a philosophy to pursue.

People who enjoy Tales games are for sure sociopaths or otherwise numb to the extreme emotional trauma that is the writing in those games

They're co-op games so that you can make fun of the writing together.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

by the same token, is she also arguing that charity is actually NOT empathetic and makes people worse off or whatever?

That's a much bolder claim, and though it's left fairly ambiguous in the novel, it does seem to waggle a finger and unmindful charity.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i also don't understand at all how acts of self interest are empathetic.

Read the book or play the game!
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fucking what
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EmoCombeeDancin posted...

it's left fairly ambiguous in the novel,

i think muffin is the biggest ayn rand expert on the board and i'm pretty sure he's stated repeatedly that rand was very much against charity.

Read the book or play the game!

no thanks, not going to read a 80000 page book by a woman whose philosophy seems insane to me and i don't like RPGs.
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also, shouldn't i play bioshock since that game explicitly incorporates ayn rand's ideas? the comparison to tales of berseria seems forced at best, looking at the responses in this topic.
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So should I play Bioshock before Berseria?
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I think the consensus order is to start with Beseria, then watch the third Altus Shrugged movie, then Bioshock and Bioshock 2, then read the book, then play the Bioshock 2 DLC, and finally watch the first and second Altus Shrugged movies
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Always watch in broadcast order. It was how it was meant to be experienced.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

I think the consensus order is to start with Beseria, then watch the third Altus Shrugged movie, then Bioshock and Bioshock 2, then read the book, then play the Bioshock 2 DLC, and finally watch the first and second Altus Shrugged movies

When do you play Super Mario Sunshine?
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tazzyboyishere posted...

When do you play Super Mario Sunshine?

After all the others, to wash the stench of the working class off your console's soul
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a 80000 page book

Reminder that there is a monologue in this book that is literally the length of an average Shakespearean play.
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redrocket_pub posted...

a 80000 page book

Reminder that there is a monologue in this book that is literally the length of an average Shakespearean play.

That killed the small glimmer of curiosity I had about the book.
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John Galts speech can honestly be skipped after reading two pages of it. Its pretty redundant
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Is Santa secretly Leisa Miller
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW-DhH2VwAA9Di8.jpg
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lol @ the idea that massive amounts of milllennials are reading marx.
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the speech was better in the movie

https://youtu.be/YsJfONYcfdQ?t=2m35s
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