Current Events > Those school shooting victims are going in on Republicans

(+) Yeah! (+)

yusiko posted...

republicans - 14/15 year olds are totally mature enough to agree to sleeping with roy moore

republicans - 17 year olds arent mature enough for their opinions to matter

Republicans then: "Middle and high schoolers are upset that Michelle Obama is messing with their school lunches. This is meaningful activism and they need our support."

Republicans now: "Middle and high schoolers are tired of being shot in school and the only action that's being taken is to give then thoughts and prayers. Fuck those kids, they just need to shut up and go back to school and pray they don't get shot again."
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The Top Crusader posted...

I mean now is a time you can probably get some support for stricter gun laws, but if you just scream how every NRA member or gun owner is a murderer you are going to turn a lot of people off quick.

I feel like this is also a bad take. The people who would use the (survivor of a mass shooting)'s opinion on guns as a reason NOT to support stricter gun laws are negligible, just like the number of people who thought guns were fine after the attack until they heard from the victims is negligible.
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Anteaterking posted...

The Top Crusader posted...

I mean now is a time you can probably get some support for stricter gun laws, but if you just scream how every NRA member or gun owner is a murderer you are going to turn a lot of people off quick.

I feel like this is also a bad take. The people who would use the (survivor of a mass shooting)'s opinion on guns as a reason NOT to support stricter gun laws are negligible, just like the number of people who thought guns were fine after the attack until they heard from the victims is negligible.

I don't agree with either of these takes actually

You can already see what is happening if you listen to conservative commentators. They will push for some kind of mental health test or restriction, most likely. The politics of it is going to be to satisfice whatever is making their constituents mad now in the least politically damaging way possible. The way to do that is going to be to throw people with mental illnesses under the bus.
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Balrog0 posted...

Anteaterking posted...

The Top Crusader posted...

I mean now is a time you can probably get some support for stricter gun laws, but if you just scream how every NRA member or gun owner is a murderer you are going to turn a lot of people off quick.

I feel like this is also a bad take. The people who would use the (survivor of a mass shooting)'s opinion on guns as a reason NOT to support stricter gun laws are negligible, just like the number of people who thought guns were fine after the attack until they heard from the victims is negligible.

I don't agree with either of these takes actually

You can already see what is happening if you listen to conservative commentators. They will push for some kind of mental health test or restriction, most likely. The politics of it is going to be to satisfice whatever is making their constituents mad now in the least politically damaging way possible. The way to do that is going to be to throw people with mental illnesses under the bus.

I don't see how that is related to what I said.
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Anteaterking posted...

I don't see how that is related to what I said.

The survivors stories shift the political climate such that people who wouldn't have done anything will now do something, i.e., the number of minds they are changing is not negligible, in my opinion

The issue is the route that change might take, which I doubt will be effective in curbing these incidents and might not help with gun violence at all.
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republicans are also blaming violent video games again apparently
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Balrog0 posted...

The survivors stories shift the political climate such that people who wouldn't have done anything will now do something, i.e., the number of minds they are changing is not negligible, in my opinion

I think we are just quibbling on where we think the change is coming from. I just think that the shooting, texts from during it, etc. themselves are the major motivators compared to the survivors' calls to action.
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My sympathy is with them during their time of grief. That being said they are entirely incorrect about their assertions that harsher gun control laws will in any way stop this kind of tragedy.
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deupd_u posted...

I don't care about the political opinions of children.

Most of them will be able to vote by the next presidential election, so maybe you should
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Teddytalks posted...

Nomadic View posted...

Experiencing a tragedy does not make someone, much less a child, an expert on policy.

It does allow them to advocate change.

It like you guys hate democracy or something.

They can advocate for change regardless of their experience of a tragedy. Thats all fine. But the appeal to emotion as evidence for a change has no seat at the table. If you want to use statistical data and even comparisons to other countries, that all has some logical basis. However, the notion that Im sad therefore gun control is a losing argument.
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Republicans can either get in on a gun control legislation now or lose any say when they get their rears kicked in 2020.

Any stamping of feet and gnashing of teeth at the behest of their NRA doms will just make their inevitable losses in the next election that much worse.
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C7D posted...

Teddytalks posted...

Nomadic View posted...

Experiencing a tragedy does not make someone, much less a child, an expert on policy.

It does allow them to advocate change.

It like you guys hate democracy or something.

Its like you want people without a fully developed prefrontal cortex making policy decisions

That's most voters, even the adult ones.

Good. And they live in the biggest swing state there is. Hopefully these kids vote.
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Why aren't they "going in" on the FBI who admittedly dropped the fucking ball?
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One thing that I've learned about myself is that I was very fucking naive as a high schooler and college student and that many of my political opinions weren't worth a damn at the time, and the vast majority of "adults" under 30 are no different, these kids included.
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OneThatFollows posted...

Republicans can either get in on a gun control legislation now or lose any say when they get their rears kicked in 2020.

Any stamping of feet and gnashing of teeth at the behest of their NRA doms will just make their inevitable losses in the next election that much worse.

Doubt it. If anything this is harmful to Democrats. Gun control, without more specificity, is a losing argument with the majority of Americans.
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Liberals: "We should listen to the high school kids on gun control here, they're smart and know what they're doing!"

Also liberals: "We have to ban high school kids from being able to buy rifles, they're just not smart enough to know what they're doing!"

I see lots of people screaming their little heads off about gun control, common sense this and that, but nobody seems to be able to say "We should enact this law, because it will prevent that from happening." What is a "stricter background check?" You either have a criminal record or you don't. You want psychological screening? That's such a gross violation of so many rights. You want to raise the age limits on buying rifles? Brilliant. We should also raise the age limits on heroin and meth, that'll also stop high school kids from having access to them.
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I understand they're upset, but their anger is misguided. Pills are to blame, not the guns
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Capn Circus posted...

I understand they're upset, but their anger is misguided. Pills are to blame, not the guns

Why hasn't Rush gone on a shooting spree then? He fucking loves him some pills.
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These gun nut hugers don't want their right to bear arms interfered with but have no problem interfering with freedom of speech and telling people like LeBron James to shut up and dribble.
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standard operating procedure.
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Capn Circus posted...

I understand they're upset, but their anger is misguided. Pills are to blame, not the guns

It's not pills or guns or even racism and political loyalty, it's the person, that's it, that's always it
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Paragon21XX posted...

One thing that I've learned about myself is that I was very fucking naive as a high schooler and college student and that many of my political opinions weren't worth a damn at the time, and the vast majority of "adults" under 30 are no different, these kids included.

Trump and many on Fox have proved that age isn't a means to judge political opinion. So cut the elitist attitude. An 18 year old who has been through such a tragedy has better insight on the gun situation than someone like you who has been in a safe haven and never experienced gun violence.
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DarkProto05 posted...

These gun nut hugers don't want their right to bear arms interfered with but have no problem interfering with freedom of speech and telling people like LeBron James to shut up and dribble.

That's not interfering with his speech. He can continue to speak if he wants and people can tell him to shut the **** up
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DarkProto05 posted...

These gun nut hugers don't want their right to bear arms interfered with but have no problem interfering with freedom of speech and telling people like LeBron James to shut up and dribble.

Psst. Freedom of speech ALSO protects peoples' right to tell Lebron James to shut up and dribble.
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Fair enough guys.

It also protects athletes from vocalizing their opinions so enough with the "I watch sports to get away from politics" arguments.
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DarkProto05 posted...

These gun nut hugers don't want their right to bear arms interfered with but have no problem interfering with freedom of speech and telling people like LeBron James to shut up and dribble.

My bad. I missed when Queen Coulter wrote that into law.
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Im pretty sure that all these media members dont know jack shit about politics either so they should shut up and do nothing because they have literally no decernible skills
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Antifar posted...

The Top Crusader posted...

I agree, I don't really blame them. But what I've seen of them (basically just one TV interview) doesn't help their cause, IMO. A couple of students, one was at least coherent but his statements weren't really logical or factual, and the other just screamed at the camera man. I mean now is a time you can probably get some support for stricter gun laws, but if you just scream how every NRA member or gun owner is a murderer you are going to turn a lot of people off quick.

"I know you just saw 17 people die senselessly, but don't raise your voice."

Doesn't make for a good TV interview if you can't really even tell what they are saying because of shrill yelling.
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r4X0r posted...

Liberals: "We should listen to the high school kids on gun control here, they're smart and know what they're doing!"

Also liberals: "We have to ban high school kids from being able to buy rifles, they're just not smart enough to know what they're doing!"

The fact that you and other similar people can't see the difference between these two situations is part of the reason why things are as bad as they are right now
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