Board 8 > Survivor Off-Season/Amazing Race 30/Celebrity Big Brother Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Underleveled posted...

Not watching live tonight and can't watch it until tomorrow night which means while you guys are watching a new episode I'll be watching a make-up. But I'll be able to watch the finale live on Sunday.

I don't think there's a new episode tomorrow night. I've heard it's a worthless recap of an already short season (when it should be another eviction).
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...blue crystals? Who called me!?
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I am intrigued on what's going to happen next
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I am so worried that Ari is about to go up and the boys will evict her...
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Well that makes me sad. The person evicted was great TV
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This season is almost over though. And that episode was so worth its losses.
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That's true. And the best overall players are still around.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

That's true. And the best overall players are still around.

Yep, Ari is still in a good spot. Omarosa has been playing quite well, too. Mark... well, except for targeting Brandi, he's been playing well also.

Ross is starting to get more of a target for playing both sides and, well, he shot Omarosa down, who then put him up. Bad play there.
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decided to finish off One World since i only had a few eps left. wasn't really pay attention though and ended up just having it on in the background

man that season was a snoozer.

since i'm not going to watch South Pacific/Caramoan, only got MvGX and Game Changers left. watched like 3 eps of each season. aside from Michaela who's really good looking and David, MvGX cast just seems to blend together for me. i don't care about any of them. is this season even worth watching. i only have 3 days left on my free trial. i can try to squeeze out a couple of last episodes of either MvGX or Game Changers. i might just not watch either. i'm pretty burned out on Survivor at the moment having watched almost nothing else in my free time for like two months.

Despite what a lot of people say, MvGX isn't really worth watching. It's just a bunch of bland characters trying to out-strategy each other while showing almost no emotion about the game itself.
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Darkx, what happened to your Save My Survivor topics?
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Inviso posted...

Despite what a lot of people say, MvGX isn't really worth watching. It's just a bunch of bland characters trying to out-strategy each other while showing almost no emotion about the game itself.

This is completely untrue. The strategy is epic and there's plenty of emotion.

Watch MvX if you feel up to it. Don't bother with Game Changers.
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The strategy isn't "epic". Strategy loses all meaning when the characters become blank chess pieces more than human beings. That's the biggest problem with Cambodia, MvGX and Game Changers, although Game Changers is the least flawed in that regard. Too many people are focused on "it's just a game" with not enough bitterness or anger or, you know, CARING that you're playing AGAINST people for a million dollars.
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Inviso posted...

The strategy isn't "epic". Strategy loses all meaning when the characters become blank chess pieces more than human beings. That's the biggest problem with Cambodia, MvGX and Game Changers, although Game Changers is the least flawed in that regard. Too many people are focused on "it's just a game" with not enough bitterness or anger or, you know, CARING that you're playing AGAINST people for a million dollars.

I lol'd.

Game Changers is the most flawed of those seasons by far.

Cambodia has a bunch of people playing their hearts out, wanting to win badly. You can see their drive. That's emotion. There's also Keith Nale and a bunch of character moments scattered throughout. They're not blank chess pieces in the slightest.
MvX is the same way.

And it IS just a game. The fact that people can recognize that shows that they have a maturity that you lack. Having respect for the game shows that they actually do care about it. Why get bitter in a way that completely ruins a season like it did with Kaoh Rong?
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You're forced to starve yourself and suffer through inhospitable conditions for 39 days, only to have some dipshit vote you out and rob you of a million dollars...if you're NOT upset and bitter about that at least a little bit, then there's something wrong with you. And I'm fine with one or two players being like that. But MvGX was just an entire cast of people who didn't really give a shit and never made waves, with a few exceptions that were picked off early into the merge. We were just tricked into thinking the season was exciting because WHOAMG strategy strategy strategy blindsides blindsides blindsides!

Cambodia sucked because the players had no soul. They were TOO focused on winning and TOO focused on "earning" the spot that the fans voted for them to have. Cambodia was absolutely ruinous to the franchise, because it's mistakes carried over and led to the three subpar seasons after it (note that actual quality season with character development and strong storytelling, was filmed BEFORE Cambodia poisoned the franchise with its "gameplay trumps everything!" mentality.

Game Changers, meanwhile, if you had the same season but the cast were all first-time players, I don't think it catches NEARLY as much shit. It's a good season with some questionable twists (again, influenced by Cambodia's bullshit mentality of twists making the game more interesting than the people themselves), and there's only really four BAD episodes, all of which involve twists. But there's emotion and feelings and people play personally, and people who play like robots (Zeke) are punished for being soulless assholes. It's not GREAT, but it's better than Cambodia and MvGX.
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Inviso posted...

Cambodia sucked

Stopped reading there. I don't waste my time with invalid opinions.

You need to realize that being a sore loser doesn't get you anywhere in life. It's clear to me now why you are the way you are. You've never been able to maturely take a loss and learn from it. You just throw a fit. And you wonder why some people view you the way they do.
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In fairness, Cambodia wasn't the best and did sometimes feel a bit lacking here or there. I mean, it was still alright, but it's not going to be in my top 10 or anything.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Inviso posted...

Cambodia sucked

Stopped reading there. I don't waste my time with invalid opinions.

You need to realize that being a sore loser doesn't get you anywhere in life. It's clear to me now why you are the way you are. You've never been able to maturely take a loss and learn from it. You just throw a fit. And you wonder why some people view you the way they do.

...uh...?
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I'd never be bitter just for losing a game. Being treated poorly, however, is another story, and I know I need to work on that. >_>
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I think that's where we differ. You view Survivor as a game, and sure, in terms of the general rule set, yes, it's a game. But you have to remember that Survivor is 39 days of grueling punishment on your body. It's not just "sit around strategizing for a little over a month". You have to endure hunger, sickness, pain, and overall harsh conditions. So it's completely reasonable to feel bitter and betrayed when someone votes you out (especially someone who you implicitly trusted) and costs you a million dollars. Survivor isn't just a game in that situation. That is a grueling, 39-day JOB that you're essentially being fired from because someone ELSE caused you to be fired. It's the same thing with Big Brother and 90 days (although admittedly, conditions are cushier in there.)

It's easy to Thursday-morning quarterback and say "I wouldn't be bitter", because we're watching the show from the comfort of our couches, having no idea the mindset of a starving person living on an island like the actual players are. We're also watching a heavily-edited television show that crafts certain storylines. The truth is that Survivor juries have ALWAYS been bitter. It just happens that MOST of the time, the winner is someone the editors can spin in a positive light/the losers are people they can spin in a negative light, so the audience doesn't really consider the jury "bitter" for voting against people we've been conditioned to believe "deserve" to lose.

You dislike Kaoh Rong because the villains voted to give Michele a win, and you preferred Aubry. And yeah, Michele was the most disappointing winner of the final five...but at the same time, I totally understand why she lost. We as viewers watch the show and see Aubry as this mastermind making all the right moves to get herself to the end (Cydney too), but to the players on the island, that's not what they saw. To them, Aubry was a frantic, neurotic player who made seemingly random moves out of fear for her own safety rather than based off a long-term strategy (and with Cydney, they view her as flipping unnecessarily.) Meanwhile, Michele was viewed as someone who controlled her fate and used her social game to keep her safe until the final five, when she won out to the end.

My problem with Cambodia is that I feel it has fundamentally altered the way Survivor is played and Survivor is viewed. I dislike the season for a lot of reasons, but I feel like Cambodia is the first season where Survivor REALLY started moving away from the human element of the show and into just a pure strategy game, which removes a lot of the heart and soul from Survivor for me. Cambodia started the trend by casting, as you put it, "people playing their hearts out, playing to win" and turning the game less from a game of social connections and more into one where you have to make #BIGMOVEZ and find idols and make complicated strategic decisions. MvGX amplified that by having new people receive the same editing treatment as Cambodia (Cambodia at least gets a SLIGHT pass because they're returning players who we SHOULD know already), and have more talk of "trust clusters" and constant idol hunting and "resume building." Everyone feels robotic in these seasons because they're not portrayed as PEOPLE first and foremost. Game Changers gets this too, and it's bad because it amplifies the overabundance of twists and advantages moving the game even further from the PEOPLE aspect, but the characters themselves still behave like human beings. But then even HHH ultimately ends a season of characters turning into a season of twists and advantages every episode.
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He says, as he treats Inviso poorly and makes personal attacks on his character.

Andy, you were the epitome of a sore loser in the Save My when Nat went out. I'm baffled you can preach gospel so quickly.
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No I wasn't, Naomi, and I thought we were done talking about that. I already told you that I was ticked off about someone being a sore winner. You do NOT gloat that you got someone else's favorite out. And I wasn't making attacks. Just offering observations. I apologize if those were misconstrued.

Would I be bitter? That depends on how I'm being treated. If I was voted out by a Hantzian bully that proclaimed superiority, of course I'd be bitter - but toward how I was treated. That is what I would liken the SMC result to. If it was an awesome game move and someone said "I had to get you out because I was afraid you would blow up my game. You were my biggest threat." and MEANT it, I would not be bitter. BIG difference.

And Inviso, you are right. Survivor is becoming almost too consumed by the strategy to the point that characterization suffers. As someone who over-analyzes the strategy, I love it for what it is, but part of Survivor is the human element, too. I still look for things like that, and we do get them. Keith Nale was a shining example in Cambodia, for instance. I like the seasons that have the proper balance between humanization and strategy. I feel Cambodia has that, but in part since it's all returning players.

In Kaoh Rong, part of my problem was how incorrect that jury's perceptions were - it ultimately led to an unsatisfying, baffling result that anyone who didn't dig deeper would not have understood. I mean, I do get it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. That season left a bad taste in my mouth.

I think Survivor needs a new Tocantins. That season was almost ten years ago now. It was a back to basics, character-based season that served the show well going forward. It's at the point where that's again necessary.
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Keith is actually a perfect example of why I HATE Cambodia. Because in Keith's case, we nearly have a perfect 1-to-1 comparison between his portrayals in two separate seasons, because he made it to about the same place both times, playing a very similar storyline. In SJDS, Keith was a bumbling goofball, but despite being a piss-poor strategist, the editors built him up as this lovable, larger-than-life character for the fans to root for even in the face of his strategic ineptitude. Really, in SJDS, the entire final six were well-developed and interesting characters. The same goes for beloved season Cagayan.

But then you get to Cambodia, and because Keith isn't a strategist, he's shoved to the background and instead we get a FUCKTON of strategy talk and scenes of Spencer faking humanity and learning emotions. I can remember Keith's entire bumbling storyline in SJDS, from losing/breaking the flint on the first night, to buddying up with Jeremy as a fellow firefighter, to incorrectly targeting Jeremy for having an idol, to getting pissed at being a back-up target in the event Dale had an idol, to burping and belching along with the other guys, to fucking up Reed's plan and idoling his own son out of the game, to becoming an unkillable cockroach due to challenge wins or Natalie saving his ass, to making the final four as a fan favorite who would've won the game with just one more win.

Cambodia? Keith drove a tuk-tuk around, beat Joe in a challenge where Joe was the focal point, considering quitting for Kimmi, and missed Jeremy's signals while laying in the hammock. That's...a shitty edit for a fan favorite character, but it happened because in a season where all that matters is strategic gameplay and blindsiding, the editors don't want to give time to people who aren't going around and making #BIGMOVEZ.
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I absolutely loved Cambodia and thought they were human enough so I don't care to have this never ending argument again. Inviso likes people more than strategy that's his opinion. Is annoying with how loud he is about It? A little but he is allowed to have that opinion.

But this argument with Cambodia is extremely overplayed
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Like I can't even find it in myself to read his walls of text about humanity in survivor anymore
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yup we get it, andy and inviso have polar different opinions on 31-34, discussion is good but not when it's roundabout
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

I thought we were done talking about that

like we were done doing cambodia warz

but...

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I think Survivor needs a new Tocantins.

yes please
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Tocantins is about to be part of the first half of Survivor seasons.
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We're old
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bwburke94 posted...

Tocantins is about to be part of the first half of Survivor seasons.

I was trying not to think about my age as I typed that nor during my Tocantins rewatch. It's a good season - not a great one, but close to it - because it has this back-to-basics feel where you actually get to know the entire cast. Once the jury starts, it hurts to see someone's story conclude, which is often the case in old school seasons. "Old school" will always refer to the first 12 seasons only, however - as it has since Cambodia - even once Probst retires after doing 50 seasons in 25 years.

The big issue I have with Tocantins is how nobody figured out that J.T. and Stephen had a final three deal with everyone despite the two of them always being together, no matter who they were with. It makes for a predictable home stretch, which hurts the narrative as a whole. It's also notable for being the last season until SJDS to feature Exile Island - after this season, you can see why they'd get rid of it. It didn't add anything after the merge... except for giving Coach a venue to let out dark chi in crazy fashion.

But aside from the rather underwhelming coda, Tocantins is a strong season with a strong cast. It would be awesome to have two female returnees from this season - Erinn for sure and either Sierra or Taj, whichever they're more likely to convince to return (...probably neither, honestly). The relevant guys have all come back except Brendan, multiple times for the most part, so what's stopping them from bringing back Erinn? As for Brendan, eh. He would have deserved to come back if he had spoken to Stephen or Taj briefly at the merge, saying "We're still good. I'll deflect the target off of you two. Just lay low and we'll take over at seven." Had he done that, he would've gotten word about what Tyson was trying to do, and he wouldn't have gone out looking bad for just presuming everyone knew the alliance was to be dormant when he'd never articulated it.
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Well when the Exile Island alliance never came to fruition it made sense just to kill it. Because it really feels that's what they were going for.
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holy fucking shit i got to the Varner episode in GC and it was worse than i imagined. i saw clips before and i had a suspicion after the immunity challenge that it was coming so i was dreading it. seeing when it happened within the episode and there's that shocked silence. so fucking hard to watch him trying to say it was proof of the ability to deceive or some shit. had to pause multiple times already and there's still 10 minutes left in this fucking episode.

i liked the previous (2?) episodes a lot too. JT boot was great. Michaela is a new fav (got to her boot ep in MvGX and it felt like a good time to stop for that season).

i think this is the point where people said previously that this season gets ugly, even when the Varner thing is taken out.

The season is still good for about...5 more episodes. It's only the last two episodes of the season that are really bad.
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still haven't made it through the end of the episode but can they stop with the fucking music trying to turn this into just another "tv" moment. i know networks think American audiences are too stupid to know how to feel about what's happening onscreen without music cues and laughtracks but it is really cheap here.

Most people actually thought this was edited very well. Also I don't know to what extent, but Zeke himself had a hand in how this got portrayed.
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if he asked for the music i'm not going to say he was wrong or anything but background music like that is just tied with attempted emotional manipulation in my mind. it's just that when i'm watching a movie or something and it happens, i buy into it and don't mind as much because it's fiction. and i've pretty much always gotten a little annoyed when they do this over "serious" moments on the show because i feel like you're already able to see the effect whatever the moment has on the person and can empathize (because presumably you have basic empathetic ability and eyeballs). when they put the generic inspirational music over a moment because they want to make sure you get it that it's a significant, real moment and it just brings the same tone and association with it as another bullshit edited tv moment. as if somehow the moment by itself wasn't enough to show because it wasn't easily digestible by tv audiences and we need to now package this into a consumable product.

Michaela not noticing the advantage right below her when she wasn't picked was killing me

I finally finished TAR

Woooo I was rooting for Yale but I came for Big Brother and am totally satisfied. I liked all four final teams though

Fun first season to watch.

Do people like Phil? He seems really boring. He's generic middle aged white guy host and everything thing he says is bland. His attempts at humour usually fall pretty flat. He doesn't have the charisma, enthusiasm, or improvisational skill of Jeff Probst, or the deliberate professionalism of the Chenbot.

They could replace Phil with a voiceover and I don't think I'd even notice.
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I am fine with him at the pit stops and in conversation, but he was really bad at the head to head commentating.
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Phil is great.


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I love Phil. He grew on me the more seasons I watched. Hes a regular guy who seems really nice and just happens to have this amazing job, and I find that amusing. Probst/Chen are better, but I would never want Phil to leave.

His eyebrow raise at the starting line, his funny hand gesture when he says GO!, his pointing as teams come racing in to the pit stop, his laughable attempts at bad jokes, his easy going demeanor at all times. Just a good guy, a staple of the series.
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Yeah Phil is definitely the weakest of the three between himself, Probst, and Julie, but he' s fine.
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@CoolCly since you enjoyed, some other seasons I highly recommend are 1, 5, 12, 17, 22, and 29. There are others that I like a lot but they are more niche favorites. Those are my favorites that are generally agreed upon to be among the best.
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Phil is boring at times, but is absolutely amazing at others. And he seems completely normal. He has a passion for the show, too, which makes him not be boring.

As for what seasons to watch, darkx makes some very good recommendations; 5 and 17 are my personal favorites. Other good ones include 7, 9, and 18 (a returnee outing) and, if you want to dig real deep, 2, 13, 14, and 30 are pretty solid also. AVOID 3, 8, 19, and 24 like the plague (and which one of 27 and 28? I forget which one is the bad one since I watched neither).

Also, random question for you guys. Do I expand my Survivor DVD collection past season 20? Or do I just stream the seasons thereafter and only buy DVD/Blu-Ray for any taken off of Amazon Prime? (Or stream most of them, but buy the good stuff [Philippines, BvW, Cagayan, SJDS, Cambodia, MvX]?)
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Truly amazing seasons that are definite must-watches:

1, 2, 3, 5, 12, 17, 18 (this is an All-Star season and requires 12/14/15/16/17), 22, 25, 27, 29, 30

Acceptable and decent seasons:

11 (All-Star season, requires 1-10), 13, 14, 21, 26

Meh Seasons:

9, 10, 15, 16, 19, 23

BAD Seasons:

4, 6, 7, 8, 20, 24 (All-Stars requiring 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23), 28
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Uh, 3 is a BAD season. 7 is a great one that's a must-watch.

Best one is 5, though. Has always been.

(also, DVDs?)
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3 is WIDELY considered one of the best seasons in the franchise. Not just by me.
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^ Great rankings. 28 was the youtube season, right? I clearly recall not liking that one at all, season 4 was certainly the earliest drag, and season 8 is just legendary as a "holy shit let's never do this again" idea that seemed good in theory.

Just watched TAR finale, very satisfied with result. Really hoping this isn't the end of the series. I know we'll still have a new season of TAR Canada this summer, at least... also was nice to see the head-to-head concept from Canada make it over to the main series.

I thought it was a rule that the amount of roadblocks done had to be evenly taken among teammates but according to wikipedia, it was 6-3 for Cody vs. Jessica. The other finalists were 5-4 and even IndyCar were 4-4.

Cody was a beast though, so can't blame him for loading up on doing stuff. Full credit to Jessica for getting the plane together in the end, I was rooting for her but never thought she would get it against those other two... great end.

The roadblock split was 5-3 going into the finale and 6-4 after the finale was over. It's not THAT big of a deal, especially since I think the roadblock limit is 6 per person.
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