Board 8 > Quinton and Leonhart in Different Houses: Magic Fate/Ball Edition [JZLF]

(+) Yeah! (+)

No, it isn't. I'm saying that should have been a sign to me that I was in a dream. >_>
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I think he meant to say the fact that it was over 4 hours was a clue that it was just a dream

pretty sure Disappearance might still hold the record for longest anime movie
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whatever I'm sick my reading comprehension is at a -3 gosh
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Disappearance of Haruhi fell just 1 minute short of 1983's Final Yamato.
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Okay, I decided to do a double shot of Fate.......stay night tonight. Shinji lures Shiro into a trap, but he finally uses a Command Seal to get Saber to help him. The fight between Saber and Rider inside the school was really good, and the music was great. Then they have a climactic clash atop a building where we finally get to see what Rider, uh, rides on. Looks like Pegasus (although I don't know if winged white horses exist in other mythologies. I'm not too familiar with any ancient mythologies outside of Greek/Roman), so based on the other hints given about Rider (The fact that Saber says she's more of a demon than a hero and Rider herself saying she was hated by everyone, as well as the fact that she covers her eyes), if she's a Greek mythical entity, my best guess would be...Medusa. The mask shatters when Saber kills her with Excalibur, but other than that, we've never seen her remove it and seen what the effects are, so maybe I'm wrong! I assume we actually find out who she is at SOME point, but I might have to wait for Heaven's Feel!

Anyway, after using Excalibur, Saber is totally drained. Then while she's incapacitated, Shiro is abducted by Illya using some sort of hypnosis paralysis thing. Saber insists on going to rescue him, and Rin forces Archer to help. We get a really great fight between Archer and Berserker with some more really good music, and man, they drop all kinds of hints that Archer is Shiro despite that presumably not being a focal point of this arc! We even get to see Unlimited Blade Works! So while Archer dies, he at least goes out like a boss like Lancer did, so good for him!

so yeah this thing is still pretty good
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The Berserker/Archer fight was probably my favorite part of the original F/SN anime
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Oh right, I also forgot to mention in F/SN that Shinji was killed by Berserker when he tried to run away after Saber killed Rider. Tough break. We also haven't seen Gilgamesh at all yet, so I'm not sure if he has any part to play in this route! At the very least, he can't become Shinji's new Servant, and Shinji can't become the vessel for the Grail, so I'm curious to see how this ends compared to UBW.
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Straight from m'man Schreier

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-viii-retrospective-the-greatest-love-sto-1821655876

Leon will have some words for this
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Well yeah. Squall is moe
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I have one immediate reaction.

That map is bad. It has Balamb Garden up in Trabia, and there's no Balamb island at all.
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Instead of having blocks for hands, the characters all had real bodies.

yes truly FFVIII's most controversial design change

The protagonist of Final Fantasy VIII used a sword GUN.

it's more of a gun sword than a sword gun since it doesn't actually fire bullets like projectiles

the rounds are used to vibrate the blade as you swing it

Also, Squall and Rinoa kiss in space

Excuse me they only hug

the kiss is saved for the very end

Over the course of the game, he becomes more and more unhinged, his appearance growing disheveled to reflect his descent into depravity.

This is one of my favorite little touches. Seifer's trenchcoat is very ragged by the last time you fight him.

clearly this dude never learned the best way to obtain magic since all he talks about is Drawing

but lore-wise, hes a manifestation of Squalls perception of the ultimate GF, which I think is PRETTY COOL.

heck yeah it's pretty cool

Worst boss: During a mission to capture the nasty President Deling, Squall and crew find themselves fooled by a decoy, who taunts them for a while before turning into a boss battle.

My BUTT huRTs FROm aLL thIS SITTing, YouNG laDY!

seriously he can't be the worst boss with a line like that

Best character: Squall

A+ article this guy gets it

His closest friend and sister, Ellone, had to leave because people were worried about her powers of time manipulation (note: this is a Final Fantasy game)

also note: Ellone is not his actual sister and she can't actually manipulate time on her own

Worst character: Zell, a lunkhead

F- article this guy doesn't get it

he actually mentions the Squall is Dead theory as a fun fan theory

F-- article get out of my life

Best summon: Doomtrain, a train that is made out of doom.

heck yeah he is

Best plot twist: GFs actually erase your characters memories. Specifically, they take up space in your brain where your memories should be. In other words, they cause CTE.

heck yeah orphanage scene is unironically great

Video games, as a general rule, dont do romance very well. JRPGs especially. Yet Final Fantasy VIIIs central love story is surprisingly competent.

TAKE THAT Lopen

okay I'm off to bed
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9/10 p. great reply
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LeonhartFour posted...

Best plot twist: GFs actually erase your characters memories. Specifically, they take up space in your brain where your memories should be. In other words, they cause CTE.

heck yeah orphanage scene is unironically great

Can't say I agree with this...!
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The Berserker/Archer fight was probably my favorite part of the original F/SN anime

That part was the entire reason I picked up the series at all.
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I've always loved the orphanage scene. I don't mind all the problems other people have with it.
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also I can react to all the other FF retrospective things if you want

well maybe not ALL

I couldn't react to FF1-3 or the MMOs
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heck yeah doomtrain
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Kids React to Leonhart Reacts to Kids Reacting to Jason Schreier Responding to Final Fantasy Games
2,037,980,422 views

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-iv-was-ahead-of-its-time-1785708699
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-v-retrospective-wildly-underrated-1790486300
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vi-retrospective-simply-the-best-1792398695

Have fun with these for now.
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SaveEstelle posted...

2,037,980,422 views

man I wish

we can barely get 30 votes on our polls
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Oh right, I guess I should have said this during the FFVIII one, but there will probably be unmarked spoilers for whatever game I'm talking about so be careful if you haven't played these games and you actually care about being spoiled on 20+ year old games

Final Fantasy IV: Ahead of Its Time

sounds like an appropriate subtitle to go along with The After Years

this article begins with a long dissertation about Tellah, perhaps the worst playable character in the series, so we're not off to a good start here

although to be fair, Tellah dying casting Meteo(r) (which fools you into thinking that all the subsequent fake deaths are real since he actually does die for real) and Golbez surviving anyway is a pretty big moment at this point in the series

The whole thing about you can die if you lose more HP than you have carrying over to MP as well is a pretty neat thing I hadn't considered though. I feel like Fate does this with the Servants, too, since they can die from running out of mana (points) there.

Cecil, a dark knight and airship captain from the jingoistic Kingdom of Baron, begins to outwardly question his kings order to slaughter a village full of wizards. He does this after slaughtering a village full of wizards.

Fun fact: Jingoism/Jingoistic are great words

Cecil renounces the way of dark knightdom and becomes a holy paladin (starting fresh from level 1, in another great example of that story-gameplay symbiosis that Final Fantasy has mastered over the years)

Yeah, FF has been really good at this sort of gameplay/story integration. They experiment with it all over the place in FFIV.

Cecil discovers that behind King Barons strange behavior is a dude named Golbez, who has a grand plan to collect all the worlds crystals and kill everyone (or somethingits really never quite clear)

did Golbez really have a goal since he's being controlled by Zemus/Zeromus the whole time? now that I think about it, Zeromus is kind of like a Reaper and Golbez is basically Saren

if only Cecil were as cool as Shepard

Final Fantasy IV is the first game to introduce Active Time Battles, one of the most iconic combat systems in JRPG history.

It didn't really become fully ATB until 5 since there was no visible meter and you couldn't skip a player's turn. This is really the prototype more than anything else.

The best character: FuSoYa, an alien wizard whose character sprite is 20% person and 80% beard.

Huh, I feel like if FuSoYa is your favorite FFIV character, you don't like the cast very much! The best characters are [redacted for SMFFFC Special Edition]

The worst character: Edward, who is so useless that one of his abilities, Hide, just straight-up removes him from battle while the rest of your team fights. Let me reiterate: his special power is to leave combat so everyone else can handle things without him.

I actually kind of enjoy the humor factor of Hide. I don't think you need Edward for any actual difficult parts of the game, so it's not a big deal, although it's been a long time since I played FFIV, so maybe I'm wrong. I don't mind Edward that much, actually. The aforementioned worst FFIV character is Tellah.

You may expect, after 20 or 25 hours of chasing Golbez around the planet, that your hunt will end with an epic boss battle against him, but no. As it turns out, he was brainwashed by some nasty alien who pops up at the end of the game and reveals himself as The Real Final Boss.

Yeah, this is kind of weird, but not as weird as lefty hating Kain because he spends a lot of the game brainwashed but still loving Golbez for some reason.
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Number of vehicles: Foura new Final Fantasy record. Theres a hovercraft, two airships (the Enterprise and the Falcon), and a giant mechanical whale that lets you travel to the moon.

The Lunar Whale is still one of the cooler vehicles in the series.

Number of giant robots: One! You get to go inside of his various body parts (Neck, Stomach, etc.) and
defeat his CPU. Dont let anyone ever tell you that Final Fantasy turned sci-fi in the later years. It was always sci-fi.

Heck yeah, Tower of Babil might have been my favorite part of the game.

Fun fact: There are four hidden summon monsters that most people never actually known about, mostly because you can only get them as rare drops: Imp, Mage, Cockatrice, and Bomb. None of them are worth the MP, especially once youve gotten Leviathan and Bahamut, but its incredible to think that some people (like me!) grew up playing Final Fantasy IV dozens of times yet had no idea these hidden summons existed.

Huh, go figure. I've only played FFIV once though, so I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of the game anyway. I should play the DS version one of these days.

The best piece of music: This one is tricky. Final Fantasy IV is where Nobuo Uematsu really started hitting his stride, taking advantage of the Super Nintendos S-SMP audio processor to pump out incredible tracks like Red Wings, Theme of Love, Hey Cid, Troian Beauty, Dancing Calcobrena, the boss battle music, and so many more. Ultimately my favorite might be Rydias Theme, but if you ask me again in a few months I bet thatll change.

oh hey Troian Beauty is a really nice track

FFIV Main Theme is probably my favorite though

The best boss: Rubicant, the fiend of fire.

Yeah, Rubicante is pretty cool. One of the rare nuanced characters in FFIV.

wow I actually did two posts on this game
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You did! Impressive.

I've got to do replays of this series someday before I'm dead...
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Final Fantasy V: Wildly Underrated

I feel like this may have been true before this Four Job Fiesta thing really caught on (which I've still never done but hey). Now I'd say that FFV is Appropriately Rated.

Final Fantasy V, a video game about four warriors who get together and beat up a giant tree

I mean X-Death isn't that big compared to your average tree but man I didn't realize how environmentally unfriendly FFV was until just now

I wish I had played Final Fantasy V in the 90s, so Id remember it as fondly as the Final Fantasys that came before and after it. I think that, if the Squaresoft of old had been a little less parochial, we might remember FFV among the all-time greats.

whoa there slow your roll man

A guy named Bartzor, by some translations, Butz, which well just take a second to think about and then leave alone

when something smells it's usually the Bartz

The evil sorcerers never have names like Frank

to be fair the name Frank wouldn't even exist in any FF game except XV

The main villain: Exdeath, an imposing warlock who is best known for actually being a giant tree. As a being of pure, boring evil, he lacks the panache of Kefka and the tragic history of Sephiroth, but at least he looks cool.

this guy sounds terrible but X-Death was a pretty solid villain!

unpopular opinion time! X-Death > Kefka

He spends a while talking about how great the Job System is, so here's another unpopular opinion! I don't really like the Job System that much. Customization isn't really something I look for in games, so the appeal is lost on me.

At least Galufs sacrifice actually means something, helping the rest of the party escape from a nasty Exdeath trap. And his granddaughters still alive, so Galuf - 2; Tellah - 0.

Heck yeah Galuf

Fortunately, you can turn Bartz into a killing machine with the job system, so hes not THAT terrible.
Hes just no Cecil. Or Terra. Or Cloud. Or even Squall.

I don't like the way you phrased that don't think I didn't notice

imagine thinking Cecil or Terra is better than Squall

Fun fact: Although most people remember Gogo as a hidden party member in Final Fantasy VI, his first appearance was actually as a boss in Final Fantasy V, which suggests that FFVIs Gogo isnt Daryl after all. Gogo might just be Gogo.

Gogo is Adlai Stevenson dude get it right

The best piece of music: Its gotta be Battle on the Big Bridge, although the main theme ranks up there with the best of Nobuo Uematsus work.

Yeah, it's hard to argue with that. FFV has some great world map, battle, and dungeon themes though.
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Can this be the new format for all of these topics?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Can this be the new format for all of these topics?

you want me to rank my top 10 OPs and EDs at the start of every topic? I mean, sure, no problem, but...

I feel like this may have been true before this Four Job Fiesta thing really caught on (which I've still never done but hey). Now I'd say that FFV is Appropriately Rated.

Same. And frankly, I'll never do that thing; it's just not my cup. But more power to the literally thousands of fans who do!

this guy sounds terrible but X-Death was a pretty solid villain!

unpopular opinion time! X-Death > Kefka

He spends a while talking about how great the Job System is, so here's another unpopular opinion! I don't really like the Job System that much. Customization isn't really something I look for in games, so the appeal is lost on me.

Who is X-Death? As for the Job System, I like it, but I don't quite love it. I prefer more individually-defined characters.

imagine thinking Cecil or Terra is better than Squall

I am literally going to ask him about this
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Final Fantasy VI: Simply the Best

hmm I wonder if he likes this game let me keep reading and find out

(which you know is evil because its called the Empire)

one of these days a JRPG will have an empire that isn't evil

Manifest Destiny can't always be wrong, can it?

white cat-birds called Moogles

wait is that what Moogles are supposed to be?

(according to the Game Boy Advance translation, which trumps the garbled SNES version)

Get out

Nearly every character in your 14-person ensemble is more complicated than they seemexcept perhaps Umaro, who seems like a dumb snowman and is, in fact, a dumb snowman.

yes poor Umaro.....

A modern JRPG might beat you over the head with that fact, maybe throwing in some thought bubbles or lengthy monologues about how Locke just wants to save people

man I wish JRPGs still did this

Kidnappers dont usually warn their victims, but hey, Setzer isnt very good at kidnapping.

it's part of being a gentleman thief, something else Setzer actually isn't

one of the best scenes in video game history, an interactive opera:

if you had been in a coma since 1993 and you read that line shortly after waking up on December 31, 2017, how would you react?

(I mean other than be disoriented by the fact that someone shoved a Kotaku article in your face after you'd been in a coma for 24 years)

teach Terra how to love

what is love I am boring

Character with the best tragic backstory: Setzer

Eh, I like Setzer's sidequest, but honestly, if I were to go off the board for one that got me way more emotional than I thought it would, that'd be Gau's.

thank goodness he didn't try to make the argument that Kefka achieved his goal (because, you know, he didn't)

But it was Final Fantasy VI that pioneered cinematic storytelling. Director Yoshinori Kitase, a huge Star Wars fan with a background in screenwriting, maneuvered the games camera as if he was making a movie, using clever sweeps and pans to make the world feel bigger than it actually was. One early scene as you escape Figaro Castle is straight out of a heist movie, with clever camera tricks and cinematic flourishes. A later sequence, when Sabin teams up with Shadow and Cyan to escape Doma Castle, could be spun out into a buddy comedy film.

Scroll up and look at that Setzer flashback, or Celess suicide attempt, or the Opera House. Pay attention to the way things are presented. How the camera pans up and down during important moments, or how Setzers memories pop up in an old-timey box as youre descending down the stairs of the tomb. In 1994, other games just didnt do this.

I don't have a lot to add other than to say that stuff like this is why FF is my favorite series. It's always been amazing at presentation, and presentation is worth a ton in my book. It can make something that in a vacuum sounds bad (like the orphanage scene I mentioned earlier) become something I actually really like.

Best character: There is no way to answer this question.

There totally is. It's [redacted for SMFFFC Special Edition]

Where did Banon go? Seriously, where does he go in the World of Ruin? Does anybody know?

this thought literally never occurred to me until just now

I guess he died of old age or Kefka personally blasted him or something

The best dungeon: Kefkas Tower

I feel like this can't be the answer but maybe FFVI doesn't have good dungeons or he doesn't consider the Floating Continent a dungeon because it's the Floating Continent
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The best piece of music: Other Final Fantasy games had excellent soundtracks, but in Final Fantasy VI, composer Nobuo Uematsu took things to the next level. FFVIs soundtrack is transcendent. There are too many stellar tracks to pick just one, but whats particularly impressive is the way Uematsu played with motifs and callbacks throughout the game.

Yeah, the amount of different leitmotifs in FFVI is pretty cool. FFVI has the best set of character themes in the series, too. Celes's Theme in particular is a personal favorite of mine. As for an overall favorite song? I'm not sure. It's definitely a treasure trove of good music. Special shoutout to the Atma Weapon battle theme though since I feel like that one is often overlooked.

Best boss: Ultros, whose charm

F- article get out of my life

Best Woolseyism: My life is a chip in your pile. Ante up!

apparently Square agrees because Setzer uses this line in Kingdom Hearts II as well!

I expected to do two posts on this one

I'll probably have to rein myself in on FFVII, FFIX, and FFX like I did with FFVIII though or I'd never stop talking
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one of these days a JRPG will have an empire that isn't evil

Manifest Destiny can't always be wrong, can it?

So far it seems Japan is really beating itself up over the end of the 19th through the middle of the 20th

Get out

Overall the GBA version is definitely better. Unfortunately, it sacrifices half its charm to improve system stability.

https://media.playstation.com/is/image/SCEA/ps3-productthumbnailr-v2-us-14aug14?$Icon$

if you had been in a coma since 1993 and you read that line shortly after waking up on December 31, 2017, how would you react?

Ask any 40-year-old on the internet and they'll respond by saying that they would emphatically agree

40-year-olds taking over the internet = why FF6 has risen so strongly in every online ranking portal

thank goodness he didn't try to make the argument that Kefka achieved his goal (because, you know, he didn't)

Xenogears is the better version of that story concept anyway (and they both fail)

But it was Final Fantasy VI that pioneered cinematic storytelling. Director Yoshinori Kitase, a huge Star Wars fan with a background in screenwriting, maneuvered the games camera as if he was making a movie, using clever sweeps and pans to make the world feel bigger than it actually was. One early scene as you escape Figaro Castle is straight out of a heist movie, with clever camera tricks and cinematic flourishes. A later sequence, when Sabin teams up with Shadow and Cyan to escape Doma Castle, could be spun out into a buddy comedy film.

Scroll up and look at that Setzer flashback, or Celess suicide attempt, or the Opera House. Pay attention to the way things are presented. How the camera pans up and down during important moments, or how Setzers memories pop up in an old-timey box as youre descending down the stairs of the tomb. In 1994, other games just didnt do this.

PREACH, SCHREIER.

this thought literally never occurred to me until just now

I guess he died of old age or Kefka personally blasted him or something

I've mentioned this before! I like to think he was killed offscreen. Enhances the flavor of utter apathy faced by the scattered heroes until they reunite.
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https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii-retrospective-the-weirdest-rpg-ever-1797547869

I'm pretty sure this is actually the farthest it goes for now. (Or rather, 8 is the farthest, but yeah.) He seems to do one every several months, which is kind of a momentous concept considering these aren't exactly huge articles.
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more words spent on FFIV than FFVI

I consider this a success
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Janus5k posted...

more words spent on FFIV than FFVI

I consider this a success

trust me no one is more surprised by this development than I am
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Final Fantasy VII: Great Because It's Weird

yeah I think I agree

also I'm looking at this map and of all the locations to include they picked the Chocobo Farm?

Before I played Final Fantasy VII, I didnt think it was going to be very good. I dont remember how I was introduced to the gamemaybe it was a store ad, or a magazine, or that wild 1997 TV commercialbut I do remember hating it.

Man, I was exactly the opposite. FFVII was probably the first game that ever convinced me to buy it based on advertising alone (FFVII was my first FF game and my second RPG ever after Super Mario RPG, in case you didn't know). That ad campaign was amazing. No game looked like that in 1997.

even download it on your Vita (which you almost certainly own)

whoa how did he do that?

That the most successful Japanese role-playing games succeed because they embrace strangeness. The least successful Japanese role-playing games fail because they take themselves too seriously.

I like this as a measuring stick but I'm trying to figure out which JRPGs fail because they take themselves too seriously.

eventually discovering that he plans to destroy the planet by summoning a massive meteor called Meteor.

Makes sense

Everything falls apart in the worlds northernmost continent, the so-called Promised Land, where Sephiroth murders Clouds buddy/possible love interest Aeris and then convinces Cloud that hes a clone.

I don't think the northern continent is considered the Promised Land. It's the place where most of the ancient Cetra (or ancient Ancients if you prefer) lived, so by definition, it can't be the Promised Land because their lives were a pilgrimage to find it. It's a Promised Land in a sense to Shinra because of the abundant Mako stores, but yeah, my impression has always been that the Promised Land was the afterlife (or "returning to the Planet" as the game phrases it).

Although theyre able to stop Meteor, it appears to wipe out the planet anyway, and at the end of the game the only survivor we see is Red XIII, a dog who gains strength from his hairpins. (Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, a film released in 2005, retcons this ending, but we wont get into that.)

I mean it actually doesn't

I do miss the old debates about whether Holy actually wiped out all of humanity (since this was discussed as one of the possibilities) that Advent Children ended, but I was always under the impression that humanity survived. I feel like it wouldn't really jive with the game's themes if humanity went extinct (the same reason why the R=U Theory in FFVIII falls flat beyond its other logistical problems).

But the games real villain is Jenova

oh he's one of those guys

Square has confirmed that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova the whole time, not the other way around

For example, via GameFAQs:

oh hey that's where I am

Also fun: watching the summon animations and thinking about how, just 20 years ago, they blew all of our minds.

Bahamut ZERO, man

The saddest death: Cait Sith, who sacrifices himself to save the party from blowing up. He is greatly missed, until his replacement arrives.

he forgot the very important detail that Cait Sith #2 arrives literally less than five minutes later
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Underrated aspect of FFV: all of it. Also: the fact that the map is shaped like a dragon
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Underrated aspect of FFV: all of it. Also: the fact that the map is shaped like a dragon

Achievement Unlocked: Very Crafty
Use the spoiler tags creatively.
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also I'm looking at this map and of all the locations to include they picked the Chocobo Farm?

Maybe he ranked them by the places players spend the most time in

Man, I was exactly the opposite. FFVII was probably the first game that ever convinced me to buy it based on advertising alone (FFVII was my first FF game and my second RPG ever after Super Mario RPG, in case you didn't know). That ad campaign was amazing. No game looked like that in 1997.

I saw a commercial and I was floored but it wasn't until my good friend Edwin "Eddie Hawk Zable Kynbiir Gil <last name redacted, weirdos>" insisted I mow lawns for a PSX and not an N64 after I complimented him on his Cloud Strife t-shirt in early '98 that wow this sentence is a mess

I like this as a measuring stick but I'm trying to figure out which JRPGs fail because they take themselves too seriously.

Me too. I'm not sure this actually works. I guess Xenoblade Chronicles is a good example of a relatively recent could-have-tanked game going super-net-viral and its perceived strangeness being a bit of a crowd unifier. (Then again, Schreier doesn't even like that game, but yeah)

I do miss the old debates about whether Holy actually wiped out all of humanity (since this was discussed as one of the possibilities) that Advent Children ended, but I was always under the impression that humanity survived. I feel like it wouldn't really jive with the game's themes if humanity went extinct (the same reason why the R=U Theory in FFVIII falls flat beyond its other logistical problems).

I never really enjoyed that debate so I'm glad Advent Children settled it -- even if I don't really enjoy Advent Children

oh he's one of those guys

Square has confirmed that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova the whole time, not the other way around

trust me, he's been told

oh hey that's where I am

He got his start on LUE lol
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Its a shocking, well-executed moment that crushes the unsuspecting player not just because Aeris was a sweet girl, but because she was a party memberone who you would never be able to control in combat again.

yeah this was another reason this twist particularly stung because I used Aerith a ton on my initial FFVII playthrough

Best boss: Jenova LIFE, who pops up right after Aeriss death. Whereas previous fights against Jenova were scored by her eerie theme song, this battle just keeps playing Aeriss Theme, which is unsettling.

From an atmospheric standpoint, this is absolutely true, but the game also gives you the "literally can't die with it" accessory as soon as you enter the Forgotten City as long as you don't miss it somehow

although yeah I tend to favor atmosphere and presentation over difficulty so I think I agree with him here

Its too bad: The translation is so awful. If the English version of Final Fantasy VII had been written with as much care as, say, Final Fantasy IX a couple years later, it would hold up far better today.

I honestly don't know that a technically "better" translation would really do a ton for the game's "hold up" value. I guess it would make us all less confused, but yeah.

Best character: Cloud

excuse me I think you meant Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Character XIX Champion Cloud

Worst character: In retrospect, its gotta be Cid, who has a great theme song but is actually an abusive husband!! Cid sucks.

I kinda applaud him for picking Cid because he might be FFVII's most overrated party member (yes possibly even more than Yuffie) although I don't know if I totally agree with making him the worst simply because he's terrible to Shera (it IS one of the not great things about him, mind you, but there's more to it than that)

also I'm not sure Cid and Shera are actually married, at least during FFVII itself

The best dungeon: Shinra HQ

Honestly, it's kind of hard to argue against Shinra HQ's quality, but I don't know that I've even really considered it a dungeon before. Personally, I love the Northern Cave, although I feel like it's not very well liked as a final dungeon.

The best piece of music: This is a really tough one, because Final Fantasy VIIs soundtrack might be Nobuo Uematsus best work.. Highwind Takes To The Skies? Cids theme? Maybe the main theme? I DONT KNOW, MAN.

well I do

it's Weapon Raid, Aerith's Theme, J-E-N-O-V-A, and Highwind Takes to the Skies, preferably in that order

Another fun fact: In the Japanese version of Final Fantasy VII, theres a hidden boss fight in the bottom of a well in Corel called Test 0, as was described in the Unauthorized Versus strategy guide for Final Fantasy VII.

I actually had this strategy guide (it's an excellent strategy guide, by the way, and I'm really glad I had this one instead of BradyGames' because it's as spoiler-free as possible) and my 10-year-old no-internet-having self was confused as heck that I could never get this fight to trigger
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i didn't realize everyone here was such a big fan of prism
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also probably my favorite FFVII debate was whether Aerith actually had to die in order to summon Holy

I'm legitimately still not totally sure but I lean no
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yeah this was another reason this twist particularly stung because I used Aerith a ton on my initial FFVII playthrough

Spotify popped Main Theme of FF7 up just as I got back to the thread

btw I still use her a ton every time

I honestly don't know that a technically "better" translation would really do a ton for the game's "hold up" value. I guess it would make us all less confused, but yeah.

I love plenty of things about the terrible translation

#*@&

Honestly, it's kind of hard to argue against Shinra HQ's quality, but I don't know that I've even really considered it a dungeon before. Personally, I love the Northern Cave, although I feel like it's not very well liked as a final dungeon.

My favorite dungeon is Whirlwind Maze followed by Northern Cave. Return to Midgar is probably #3, with Shinra HQ at #4. I just love the feeling to all four places.
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Tifa almost never leaves my main party now, but I regularly (like almost every time I hit a new location) switch up the third person.
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LeonhartFour posted...

also probably my favorite FFVII debate was whether Aerith actually had to die in order to summon Holy

I didn't really consider this.

I thought Sephiroth was trying to kill her to prevent her from doing just that, but he was too late.
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I dunno. The circumstances are kind of vague, like why Aerith would run off on her own to begin with when she knows she'd be the most vulnerable on her own. There are multiple explanations, but one of them would be because she knew Sephiroth was going to kill her and she had to let that happen. It's just a fun thing to think about.

anyway I guess if you guys have any other things you'd like me to "react to" or opine on you can do that since it's kind of fun

I just feel weird doing it unprompted
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Today on current discussions over at ResetERA:

Is it repeated? I only remember it happening once and her seeing a prophecy of it before then. It's been several years since Iast played though.

Right, but I was thinking it was more of a hotwheels loop de loop, rather than a closed circle. Like, there's paradoxical loops like FFI where Garland can only go back in time because he already went back in time to send himself back in time. There's no beginning. Whereas with Ultimecia, her timeline starts in the future and ends in the past. She sees her future and causes it by trying to stop it. I was thinking Edea's line would continue past Ultimecia into the future, but since Rinoa got 2 Sorceresses' powers, unless she passes on to 2 people, the succession line is in a closed loop between Edea and Ultimecia.

Like, it goes, Adel-Rinoa-Ultimecia-Edea-Rinoa-Ultimecia-Edea-Rinoa-Ultimecea-Edea.....

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Yeah, I think FFVIII establishes pretty clearly that they're in a stable time loop, and Ultimecia's undoing was in not realizing it was a stable time loop. She gets killed by SeeD because she tries to achieve Time Compression, and she tries to achieve Time Compression because she knows she's supposed to get killed by SeeD.

Edea even tells the story of meeting Ultimecia on the brink of death at the orphanage on Disc 3 (although she doesn't call her Ultimecia, of course, so you don't realize the full meaning of that story at the time). The player might be led to believe this was when Edea received her sorceress powers originally, but she says elsewhere that she's been a sorceress since she was a child, so it has to be a separate incident (unless she was at that orphanage as a child, which seems unlikely, since I think she says that she and Cid started it).
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Someone with an AoT avatar had this to say about that FF8 piece:

Disappointed that he is reinforcing the Draw fallacy.

The best way to get spells in this game is to refine them from items, which takes two seconds and can be done from standard and copious drops. Draw is almost always a waste of a command slot and should only be used for a handful of bosses with a GF to steal.

You spend way more time stealing in series darling FF9 and there's no way around it in that game. The rewards are better and unlike drawing you aren't guaranteed something with every use of the command.

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SaveEstelle posted...

Disappointed that he is reinforcing the Draw fallacy.

My man (or woman)
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LeonhartFour posted...

like why Aerith would run off on her own to begin with when she knows she'd be the most vulnerable on her own.

Hmm it comes right after Cloud beating her up so I'm gonna say she might have felt Cloud would be used to interfere with her if he was present (which almost happens anyway).
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Think I might ring in the new year wrapping up Fate...
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Aw yeah Titans in the playoffs for the first time since 2008

now we'll probably get the crap beat out of us if we play like we have the last month of the season but hey we're in
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I will KILL ALL TITANS
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