Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things

(+) Yeah! (+)

Man they ruined Corridor Creeper. Banished him to the fucking shadow realm. Thats funny because I literally just crafted two last night.

I wonder if Patches will still be good. He's obviously much worse for very aggressive face hunting decks like Pirate Warrior, but he's still a body for things like Token Aggro Druid

I feel like Raza isn't destroyed here. He's still an interesting piece for some day making my Shadowform deck competitive. But they've definitely crippled the Shadowreaper OTK combo.
---

Raza was my day one craft for MSoG, now I got a perfect opportunity to trade him up for a golden version. 1 mana is fine by me, I always preferred playing an attrition game with him anyways

So I just remembered that I opened multiple Patches during the beginning of MSoG.

Never dust your cards folks
---

Thoughts on the nerfs

1. Patches
-Completely useless now. Should probably have a battlecry for charge. I say useless but maybe it's still not awful with ships cannon.

2. Corridor Creeper
-Good. This card should have never been printed with its current text. The problem wasn't even how good it was versus control, it was how important it was to have them before your opponent in aggro and tempo matchups.

3. Raza
-Probably doesn't make the deck unplayable but kills it in standard. The problem is that unlike quest rogue, which is essentially a combo deck with a harder to activate combo, Raza/Anduin will just about lose its otk potential meaning its not even going to be a counter pick to control set ups.

4. Bonemare
-With Raza also being nerfed this is probably a good idea. Really seems like it's more applicable to arena right now.
---

Is Patches useless?

I mean its awful if you draw it but Alleycat sees play and most Pirates have an effect of some sort that will make it ok
---

Alleycat sees play because of crackling razormaw.
---

Patches: is too big a liability if drawn now. A stonetusk boar is bad, but a 1-mana wisp does exactly nothing. Considering Patches gets drawn in maybe 10-15% of games, and no longer comes with enough upside to offset that, I'm pretty sure the card is simply dead in the water. Outside of Ship's Cannon abuse, the card is just dust now.
Corridor Creeper: holy shitballs, that's a nerf! I think it's a riot that creeper is now a carrion grub, since it looks like one, but I'm pretty sure 2/5 would not have been the statline I'd have picked. If anything, I'd prefer 5/2 to 2/5. Actually, just go ahead and rename it Corridor Rager and make it a 5/1. At 2/5, it may not be impactful, but it's still incredibly hard to remove. Unless, of course, the goal is that you want to have an anti-aggro tool for trading into all those small minions. Kill a paladin's first 4 minions, drop your carrion gru---corridor creeper, and mop up all those knife jugglers and annoying 1/1 tokens. Beyond that, I'm not certain this card will still be used. I mean, it's still playable, but I bet it won't be played.
Bonemare: fair. next.
Raza: Well, this certainly kills basic Anduin decks moving forward, judging from the number of times a priest loses Raza and immediately concedes. It also makes Spawn of Shadows combos a little harder to pull off, but those, unfortunately, are not dead. Therefore, I would have preferred the "0 to your current hero power" version. Anduin before Raza isn't a huge change, but it's enough of one that you don't get 8 extra healing on curve, along with a 5/5 on 5.

MariaTaylor posted...

I'm almost hesitant to say "too late" in this specific case. with it coming at the end of the standard cycle it seems almost fitting. like, standard meta is supposed to be its own unique, distinct thing. so the standard cycle that just ended was the one where patches dictated a lot of the meta, and raza had a huge impact in the later half of the cycle. but now that this standard cycle is ending the experiment is kinda over and we need to fix these cards so they don't ruin wild forever.

You may not hear much agreement on this sentiment, but I'm with you here.
---

Patches: probably still playable.

Corridor Creeper: I'm fine with it; card just needed to die.

Raza: Really wish they would have nerfed Anduin instead. Raza was a cool but niche card before Anduin came out.

Bonemare: I....really disagree with this change (for constructed; in Arena...sure, but they could also just lower the offering rate in Arena). Most decks don't run bonemare. Jade Druid doesn't run bonemare. Cubelock doesn't run bonemare. Raza priest doesn't run bonemare. You need a deck with a really sticky board to even support bonemare (so like...Tempo Rogue and Zoolock run it, and not much else). And like...it's a good 7 drop, but there are classes with their own better 7 drops (looking at you Firelands Portal).

Bonemare is...good, but it's maybe 1 stat above where it should be. Like...if Bonemare was a 4/5 or a 5/4 instead of a 5/5, that might be enough of a nerf for it to be considered useable but balanced. At 8 mana it will be hot garbage for constructed; a few people will try it out at 8 mana, but people will quickly figure out it's bad. Obvious comparison here is Call of the Wild. Call is 12/10 worth of stats, some of which have charge and taunt for 8 mana--it was too good, it got nerfed to 9 mana, where it is never played. Bonemare is 9/9 worth of stats for 7, some of which has charge/taunt -- 4 less than the original Call for one less mana (not as efficient). So...we have a card that's not as efficient as the original Call of the Wild, and getting the same nerf that killed Call of the Wild? Yeah, it's done, dust it and don't expect to craft it ever again.
---

metroid composite posted...

Raza: Really wish they would have nerfed Anduin instead. Raza was a cool but niche card before Anduin came out.

How would you propose they did that? Considering how digital the cards are (as opposed to analog), finding a variation might prove challenging. I mean, you could say "the first time you play a card, refresh the hero power," but the whole point of the card is to reward you if you can get a bunch of cards off. It's just designed with the assumption those will cost 2, so there would probably be at most maybe 3 in a turn.

I'm not fond of Raza becoming Maiden of the Lake, but it was evident that was the link that had to be targeted.

metroid composite posted...

(for constructed; in Arena...sure, but they could also just lower the offering rate in Arena)

Offer rates sometimes make the problem worse rather than better. If bonemare is very common, it's annoying, but at least everyone has it. If it's rare, then the guy with the bonemare wins consistently. Especially since you're no longer playing around it.

As for your CotW example, 8 to 9 is a bigger difference than it seems. It locks you out from spending 2 mana that turn. One very obvious use of 2 mana is the hero power, for extra burst. There are other things you could do for 2 that are now not an option. Far less on 1...Arcane Shot and Hunter's Mark, basically. Yeah, you can make the same argument for Bonemare, saying now you can't play stuff for 3, but what were you playing for 3 and then hitting with BM? Acolyte? Burnbristle?

The main thing here is that as soon as Razakus decks take a step back, it opens up the meta to all the stuff that was prevalent in Lich King. Maybe no patches, but otherwise, it's the same stuff. Quite a few of those decks did run bonemare, and there's a solid chance they go back to it. I think Blizzard would prefer that people not have more reasons to tech in silence. Even so, Bonemare is essentially a 4 damage charge in addition to adding a pile of stats to the board.

At the very least, nobody's going to dust it, though, because it's common. You really want that 20 dust so bad?
---

azuarc posted...

Considering how digital the cards are (as opposed to analog), finding a variation might prove challenging. I mean, you could say "the first time you play a card, refresh the hero power," but the whole point of the card is to reward you if you can get a bunch of cards off.

I mean, for a functionally very similar nerf you could do

"refresh your hero power, and it costs at least 1 after refreshing".

azuarc posted...

As for your CotW example, 8 to 9 is a bigger difference than it seems. It locks you out from spending 2 mana that turn. One very obvious use of 2 mana is the hero power,

I mean, CotW you played it on 8 and you basically won the game, usually. What killed CotW wasn't "oh, you can't hero power with it if you use it on turn 15"--it was the card hitting one turn later. Bonemare you play it on 7 and it's a big swing.

On 8? Well for starters, what's your turn 7 play? Remember, you need to maintain board control and keep minions stuck on the board or else Bonemare gets zero value. Part of what killed CotW decks was that turn 8 was often a dead turn for them after the nerf, which let their opponents get ahead on the board, and getting a pile of value on turn 9 wasn't enough. If you don't have a solid play on turn 7, you might not have minions on board to pump on turn 8.

azuarc posted...

At the very least, nobody's going to dust it, though, because it's common. You really want that 20 dust so bad?

Isn't it 40 dust per? And some people have like 10+ of them, so that's 400 dust.
---

If you're playing Kingsbane Rogue, and you decide to run Mimic Pod, it will give you Leeching Poison 100% of the time. I've verified it.
---

I'm sure is already been mentioned but bonemare nerf puts it into the free from amber pool too

metroid composite posted...

On 8? Well for starters, what's your turn 7 play? Remember, you need to maintain board control and keep minions stuck on the board or else Bonemare gets zero value. Part of what killed CotW decks was that turn 8 was often a dead turn for them after the nerf, which let their opponents get ahead on the board, and getting a pile of value on turn 9 wasn't enough. If you don't have a solid play on turn 7, you might not have minions on board to pump on turn 8.

So basically, what you're saying is that decks that intend to kill you on turn 5 can't afford to stretch that far.

I'm not denying this analysis. It's completely correct. I just feel like something's wrong if you've got absolutely no game left by the time turn 7 rolls around.

azuarc posted...

And some people have like 10+ of them, so that's 400 dust.

The only person in the world who likely has more than 2 is Kripp, because everybody else pushes the button.
---

Isn't there a system in place that only allows you to get full dust value on the maximum amount you can have in a deck anyway? I know it was that way for the Hall of Fame rotations, I just kinda assume the same would hold for nerfs.
---

Nerfs have always just been a full dust refund if you dust it. Hall of Fame was a special case.
---

I'd change doomguard so the charge was part of the battlecry OR make it so it can only attack minions the first turn.
---

https://playhearthstone.com/en-gb/blog/21469306

From February 1st-14th anytime you complete a daily quest, you'll be entered into a draw to win up to 3000 packs.

You can also win a 30 pack bundle (10 from each expansion), which will also be available in the shop for a limited time at a reduced price (one time purchase).

The wording makes it seem like we'll be getting the patch tomorrow as well.
---

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/7ubv89/i_feel_the_need_to_highlight_the_fact_that_if_you/

So apparently if you win the 3000 packs you'll be legally required to pay taxes on it if you're a US citizen, which comes out to something like $1500.

Good thing I'm Canadian! And also never actually going to win it.
---

Time to stream pack opening for a month straight.
---

This seems so weird

Like one guy gets an absurd amount of packs he doesn't even really need

And then a wider group gets a pretty insignificantly small amount of packs

Why not give 100 packs to 100 people or some shit?
---

So Cubelock dominates the ladder until next expac hits. Since Lock loses next to nothing from Cubelock, one has to wonder what the plan is to deal with the deck. Yes, you can add charge to the battlecry (or maybe HoF it since charge minions are just too problematic), but that won't be enough to put the deck in line with others. Though I guess we need to wait and see what other classes get.

God what I wouldn't give for Paladin to pushed towards control rather than constant agro.
---

People think the meta will adjust and counter cube lock, as the counters that could exist are currently being countered by Shadow reaper and aggro decks. I'm not sure what counters people have in mind when they say this.

No way to know until we play it out I guess.
---

There are various Mage decks that counter Warlock which previously lost to Priest, so we should be seeing a lot of those with less Priests and more Warlocks on ladder.
---

I have a play a friend quest first one to message me in game gets it. Neptune#12190
---

davidponte posted...

There are various Mage decks that counter Warlock which previously lost to Priest, so we should be seeing a lot of those with less Priests and more Warlocks on ladder.

The main mage list that is used is Tempo Secret Mage which does pretty well versus warlock, but my record against raza priest with it is like close to 100%.

The problem is that I dont think secret mage is a strong enough deck even in a meta that suits it due to its consistency issues. I honestly think they need a 3 and 4 drop they can play outside of like kirin tor (who sucks without the effect) and a potential big boobed blue girl.
---

Theres always Quest mage (at least for the rest of this rotation), since it doesnt care about Voidlords much, and can burn warlocks down from whatever armor. A couple people used it at the tournament I went to last weekend as an anti-warlock class. It risks Gnomeferatu, but thats about it.
---

Control Warlocks can run Dirty Rat and honestly, a Mountain Giant on 4 can completely screw Quest Mage if they can't answer it
---

Crossing my fingers for a golden Corridor Creeper from my ranked rewards.
---

Me: Coldlight on curve
...
Raza Priest: Raza on 5
Me: Sap, 10 cards after they draw
RP: Raza and a junk spell on 6
Me: Sap, 10 cards after they draw
RP: Raza and Pyromancer on 7
Me: Vanish, opponent mills Anduin, concede

Not sure that will ever not feel good. After the Coldlight you think he would have been a little more careful with his hand size.
---

Spiteful summoner on turn 6: Mind control pulls Ultrasaur
Another one on turn 7: Free from Amber pulls Tirion

Why does this card exist again?
---

Camden posted...

Not sure that will ever not feel good. After the Coldlight you think he would have been a little more careful with his hand size.

There's honestly not much counterplay you can do against mill decks as control since your cards are so expensive. Raza priest has it a bit better because of zero cost spells but also worse since most of their cards cycle in some way.
---

Instead of crafting Spiteful and Archivist, Caverns again, or Kingsbane I crafted Kathrena and played Big Beast Secret Hunter

Its fun but I never got the King Krush dream
---

I have lived the King Krush dream a few times and it's not really as satisfying as it would appear.
---

play a friend quest up for grabs to first responder
---

It's 2018 and I'm still crafting cards from the classic set. Not even a legendary.

Also, champion pack is in. Or packs if you're not me.
---

Camden posted...

It's 2018 and I'm still crafting cards from the classic set. Not even a legendary.

I mean, I'm still hoping I open up Greenskin
---

I got tired of waiting for a second Cabal Shadow Priest, so finally crafted one today. Spending 400 dust on epics feels so much worse than spending 1600 on a legendary to me.
---

Camden posted...

It's 2018 and I'm still crafting cards from the classic set. Not even a legendary.

I finally decided to buy the welcome bundle. First money I've ever spent on Hearthstone. I figured I at least owed them five bucks at this point.

I got Cenarius and ten rares. WTF.
---

Been playing a lot of tempo mage recently (standard list with mediv) like now that less decks are going aggro like on day one its been pretty good. Got me from like 14 to 10 with relative ease.
---

Oh and if warlock is the new meta post patch secret mage imo because a tier one deck. They absolutely destroy control lock and have a favorable against cube (although cube has some more tricks they can use). Honestly in the matchup taunts dont matter much as long as you get a few early chip shots in because your Just going to toss spells at his face. I do think pyroblast will start seeing more play to get extra reach beyond warlocks heals.
---

I mulligan away a Free From Amber and Mind Control then get a Free From Amber and Mind Control back. First draw? Free From Amber. I hate this deck sometimes.
---

davidponte posted...

I mulligan away a Free From Amber and Mind Control then get a Free From Amber and Mind Control back. First draw? Free From Amber. I hate this deck sometimes.

This is why I don't play that deck. I always draw the four spells before the four cards that would use them. I even added a fifth spell, I think it was a Holy Fire, and it still kept happening.
---

Play 50 Hunter Cards
Win 2 games with Hunter/Something
Play 40 spells

I only want to finish the top quest, the other two are at 1/2 and 36/40 and I want to reroll them. So every time I get close to winning, which was every game because my casual ranking is garbage from using it solely for quests, I concede. So my casual ranking is getting even worse than before, but on the bright side two people sent friend requests because of it, most likely confused as to why someone with a full board and lethal available conceded to them.

The moral of the story is, the greedier you are the more friends you'll have. Or something like that.
---

What's everyone using to climb up from 20? I've tried Secret Mage, Tempo Rogue, Combo Priest, and Zoolock and just can't get past 17.
---

Dragon Priest has worked well from 17-13, but I switched to Zoolock because it's faster.
---

Hilariously, I'm playing C'Thun Druid atm.
---

Been going up and down 8 and 9 with mage. Should get better after the patch. But now that I have over 200 games with it the big issue with the deck is going to be consistency.
---

Got to 15 with the Combo Dragon Priest. Some of the wins where you smack 'em with a 32/32 Twilight Drake on Turn 6 just feel dirty.
---