Board 8 > Survivor Off-Season Discussion Topic: Survivor is Big Brother Now

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm putting up a new topic shortly. Had a busy couple days that are hopefully going to pay off with big news.
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i think i'm crushing on Wentworth

Underleveled posted...

I'm putting up a new topic shortly. Had a busy couple days that are hopefully going to pay off with big news.

By the way, said good news happened. I'll fill you all in soon. I'm kinda not supposed to talk about it yet and I'm going to stick to that even among people that don't know my identity. :-P But it's something I've wanted to do for a very long time.

And no, I did not get cast for Survivor. Or Big Brother. Or Amazing Race.
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kateee posted...

i think i'm crushing on Wentworth

As you should! Unfortunately, not that it matters, she got married.
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Starting my Vanuatu rewatch. This opening ceremony is fucking looooooong. But it's really cool.
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I'm sad not gonna watch Vanuatu in this around.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

kateee posted...

i think i'm crushing on Wentworth

As you should! Unfortunately, not that it matters, she got married.

I'm fine just being friends with her. She is awesome.
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congrats on being cast on The Voice
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fuck Jon and Jaclyn

fuck the rest of this season

kateee posted...

fuck Jon and Jaclyn

fuck the rest of this season

I legitimately cannot think of where you are in the season, because they're top tier characters throughout.
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that silly fight stuff?
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Jon and Jaclyn are both easily top 5 for that season.
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Wentworth vote out?
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Wentworth vote out?

Wentworth was one of the single most swapfucked castaways ever. There was literally nothing she could do. Jon was so far up Missy's ass that it didn't matter anymore that Jaclyn and Baylor weren't overly fond of each other. And then farmguy69 was throwing a fit over Missy overfeeding her little princess, ostracizing both himself AND our Kelley. Despite their attempts to offer the Misches a deal, Jon wasn't buying it. He was too busy likening Missy to his own mother.

Then Miss Survivor happened and CBS knew they had to bring Wentworth back because she'd recently gotten a raw deal and, well, they knew how awesome she could be. And, to avert spoiling anything in her second go, I'll just say she delivered.

Sidenote: I feel so bad for Baylor. Baylor went on Survivor to prove to her mother that she was a grown woman and didn't need to be pampered anymore. But then... her mother continued to treat Baylor like a little girl. Baylor was viewed as a spoiled brat, which was the very thing she didn't want to be.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Wentworth was one of the single most swapfucked castaways ever.

She's MAYBE top 5?

Excluding all-star seasons...

1. Aaron
2. Marcus
3. Anna S32
4. Okay maybe top 4
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excuse me how could you forget my boy silas
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Wentworth vote out?

yeah it was a joke following my previous post

i was actually caught off guard because i knew the cast list for Cambodia and just assumed she made it farther than that.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

farmguy69

so i can finally get this reference since i know who the guy is but is it just that that's what he called himself on twitter or something or is there more to the story

Wentworth was more swapfucked than #3. All Anna needed to do was sell a lie that she and Julia "weren't that close" and agree to vote her out if it came to that. Wentworth didn't have such an out. I would say Anna is #4 solely because of that whole Exile Island thing.

It's also arguable that she was more screwed than Marcus. Having just rewatched Gabon, I can attest to that Marcus screwed himself in that situation. Yes, a surprise second swap at the Fake-Out Feast was the biggest contributing factor to his undoing, but he did not make the most of it. He did not promise Susie any higher than sixth place. Kenny meanwhile made an F4 guarantee, which was two spots better and only one outside of Susie's ultimate goal to make Day 39. Susie didn't fully trust Kenny and Crystal and had Marcus sold a fake F3 deal with her and Bob, arguing "As much as I love Charlie and Corinne, they're my biggest competition since we're playing similar games. You, Bob, and I all have an equal shot since we have different approaches." Of course, this would be a lie, but it would be better than him not making any effort at all to rein in Susie.

If I had to rank them, it'd be:
Aaron (also thanks to Leslie, who he'd had no opportunity to get rid of until after her kidnapping)
Sandra (two-time winner label plus being in a 5-2 hole against Tavua? She was screwed because she's too amazing at the game)
Michelle Yi (went right to Tribal Council with her team and had no chance to plead her case)
Wentworth (had no options because of the Blood vs. Water format & Jon/Muffin being too close. You can't be EVERYBODY's best friend out there.)
[Australian Survivor 2017]
Anna S32 (see above)
Marcus (see above)

Silas could be up there but his demise was inevitable due to his horrendous social play. The swap got him out six days sooner than he would've been without it.
Matt in Caramoan, perhaps, since that swap was unnecessary?

That's all that came to mind quickly.
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Wait, how is it swapfucked if Jon was closer to Missy than she was? Both Jon AND Keith were on the outs on Hunahpu. If anything, Dale/Kelley and Baylor/Missy shouldve been the pair that teamed up.
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Id argue that only the following players were legitimately swapfucked:

Bubba. Regardless of his boneheaded move at the challenge, Bubba was in a solid position on Lopevi, and then was chosen by Scout to inevitably end up in the minority of NuYasur. A 3-2 split in favor of the women would inevitably lead to Sarge further widening the gap by putting himself on NuLopevi (plus Lisa joining the large female majority on NuYasur). Bubba and Rory were fucked, and its only because Lisa fucked up that Rory made the merge.

Brooke/Margaret. Again, solid position on Nakum, get swapped into even numbers on a physically weaker tribe that features the only two outsiders on Nakum. Plus Judd having the Jersey connection with Steph.

Aaron. Goes without saying, although Id argue he couldve at LEAST kept himself around over James.

Jacquie. Solid position on Kota, swapped onto complete train wreck NuFang with no time to make proper inroads with people specifically picking Kelly because of her outsider status.

Marcus. Swap came out of nowhere when he was sitting completely pretty.

Monica. Swapped to weak as fuck NuManono dominated by evil overlord Colton, who deemed her too threatening.

Anna. Probably one of the most swapfucked ever, because there was ZERO incentive to NOT vote out one of her or Tai, given Julias return.

Roark. Swapped into a singular minority while her original tribe had never lost a member, making it suicidal to leave her in the game. Plus, Ryan gave Chrissy the idol on day one and thus would never vote her out.
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I am flipping on my original opinion on Marcus, but a lot of those people's chances got hurt because of a swap but their game wasn't fucked by the swap but because of what they did before the swap.

Silas, Brooke/Margaret, Jacquie, Marcus and unfortunately, even Kelley.

All got voted out because of not having good enough relationships with the members of their tribes that they were swapped with. As opposed to the others who were just straight outnumbered.
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kateee posted...

BlueCrystalTear posted...

farmguy69

so i can finally get this reference since i know who the guy is but is it just that that's what he called himself on twitter or something or is there more to the story

That's his Twitter name, yes. It's been an in-joke among the superfans ever since SJDS first aired. I think he said the "69" had something to do with... cycling? I forget. I could ask. I mean he does follow me >_>

As for swapfucked, Wentworth was inarguably screwed by such. The edit didn't show the whole story. If she'd had one different person, she could've changed her fate. It was simply how the pairs fell - she didn't have the relationship with Jon or Muffin that they did with each other. And that wasn't something she could fully control. Her father fought with a potential ally for her, ostracizing her as well. Part of what screwed her was the Blood vs. Water format. In a non-Blood vs. Water season, I would blame her for not having the social relationships the same way I do Silas. But her father's actions mixed with Jon/Missy having a tight bond left her with no options - since you can have good relationships with everyone, but you can't be everyone's best friend. All it would've taken was one different person instead of Jon, Jaclyn, Baylor, Missy, or Dale and she might've gotten out alive.

Some of the ones you listed were just because they didn't have the best of relationships. Some of them admitted it. Brooke in particular was quite screwed, since based on social play, it should've been Margaret first.
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The Mana Sword posted...

excuse me how could you forget my boy silas

I'm in the middle of an Africa watch and I can say that Silas gets put on that list ONLY because he was the first tribeswap victim ever. But even if the tribeswap hadn't happened, he set himself up so he wasn't getting any better than 10th place barring an immunity run and still being pre-jury. Even if Boran lost the next two challenges and voted out Kim and Clarence, Frank and Teresa hated the Mallrats alliance so much that they would have flipped at the merge and no doubt they target Silas first.
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Yeah, Silas was a horrendous social player, as I stated above. He did not get "swapfucked." He simply did not anticipate such a curveball, but even so he should've tried to rope Frank and T-Bird in as loyal votes for the merge. Instead, he alienated them, and they would've voted him, Brandon, and Lindsey out systematically. It was in no way unfair because Silas was done in by his own actions - actions that would've cost him even without the twist.

On the reverse, we have Andrew Savage, who was screwed by the Outcast twist because Lill was out for his blood since he'd lied that he'd protect her. As far as he was concerned, he was never going to see Lill in a Survivor context again (outside the reunion). If that twist doesn't happen, Savage doesn't go there. If Savage knew about that twist in advance, he would have been mindful of what he was telling everyone he was voting out. He's a prime example of someone screwed by a twist.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

As for swapfucked, Wentworth was inarguably screwed by such. The edit didn't show the whole story. If she'd had one different person, she could've changed her fate. It was simply how the pairs fell - she didn't have the relationship with Jon or Muffin that they did with each other. And that wasn't something she could fully control. Her father fought with a potential ally for her, ostracizing her as well. Part of what screwed her was the Blood vs. Water format. In a non-Blood vs. Water season, I would blame her for not having the social relationships the same way I do Silas. But her father's actions mixed with Jon/Missy having a tight bond left her with no options - since you can have good relationships with everyone, but you can't be everyone's best friend. All it would've taken was one different person instead of Jon, Jaclyn, Baylor, Missy, or Dale and she might've gotten out alive.

The bolded is 100% why Kelley wasn't swapfucked. She was in the majority pre-swap on Hunahpu. And post-swap, the numbers were 4-3. Hell, if you include pairs and people she was aligned with pre-swap, she should've STILL had a solid 4-3 advantage. Jon voted in the minority and just got blindsided by his buddy getting voted out. Yet Jon was apparently close enough with Missy to pry her away from Kelley, who she'd just voted with. You can blame Dale, but Kelley should've been able to tell him "Hey, we need to work with Missy/Baylor...cool your shit, dad." The only thing that Kelley got fucked over by was Dale surviving a round longer than she did.
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So you think you it's possible to be everyone's best friend, gotcha. Hint: It's not. Kelley was with two people that had a natural bond that she couldn't get between, who each had a partner they'd never ever vote out. And that's exactly why she WAS swapfucked. Keith just had to go with majority. There was no hope for her in that situation.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

So you think you it's possible to be everyone's best friend, gotcha. Hint: It's not. Kelley was with two people that had a natural bond that she couldn't get between, who each had a partner they'd never ever vote out. And that's exactly why she WAS swapfucked. Keith just had to go with majority. There was no hope for her in that situation.

Why was KEITH not targeted? He wasn't part of a pair and had been an outsider on Hunahpu. I feel like you're using the term "swapfucked" too broadly. Kelley wasn't swapped into an unwinnable position (at least, not one that wasn't of her own doing.) The fact that Jon was closer with Missy is a flaw in Kelley's game, and again, makes it so that it's less the swap's fault and more her own fault.
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The reason Keith wasn't targeted was Dale. Kelley could've pinned the target on Keith if her father wasn't stirring up some drama.

Inviso posted...

The fact that Jon was closer with Missy is a flaw in Kelley's game

Your ignorance of social politics amazes me. How many times do I have to say that it's impossible to be everyone's best friend? Jon and Missy had a natural connection that nobody could get between except for Jaclyn and Baylor.

It's not a flaw in someone's game to not be one person's best friend. It's a natural occurrence.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

The reason Keith wasn't targeted was Dale. Kelley could've pinned the target on Keith if her father wasn't stirring up some drama.

Inviso posted...

The fact that Jon was closer with Missy is a flaw in Kelley's game

Your ignorance of social politics amazes me. How many times do I have to say that it's impossible to be everyone's best friend? Jon and Missy had a natural connection that nobody could get between except for Jaclyn and Baylor.

It's not a flaw in someone's game to not be one person's best friend. It's a natural occurrence.

That's still not getting "swapfucked". Kelley had a majority on her swapped tribe and was still voted out. That is on her. You can say "Oh, Jon and Missy had a natural connection." FFS, Kelley was a young girl playing with a mother whose world revolved around her young daughter. If Kelley couldn't parlay that into a stronger alliance than Jon could, that is on HER. Kelley was NOT swapfucked, and I have NEVER heard that term associated with her until this argument today.
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I do think Kelley got screwed by the swap but I buy Vis's explanation of how she could have played her hand differently.

On the other hand Andy's boner for Wentworth has officially become the worst that any user here has had for a Survivor ever. At least the Amanda thing was ironically comical.
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Boner? I'm just defending someone who'd defend me.

Kelley WAS swapfucked and I've heard many people use that with her; you're only the second to say otherwise. Muffin saw Jon as the son she never had. There's no way Kelley could've convinced her otherwise.

It's clear I'm not welcome in these topics. K thx bye.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

It's clear I'm not welcome in these topics. K thx bye.

Oh don't be dramatic. -_-
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Speaking of not being welcome in this topic though what the hell ever happened to Siaparez?
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I'm not attacking you. I just...if you're gonna say Kelley was swapfucked, then you'd have to broaden the term of cover a LOT of players...because she had a lot of control over her fate and still went home over her dad (who was a large part of why the Kelley/Dale pair couldn't gel with Missy/Baylor), or Keith (who had no connection to anyone, and hadn't even been aligned with Missy pre-swap).
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lol
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Sorry... I'm not having a good night, and I kinda just snapped. My bad.
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But if the swap screwed Kelly why didn't they go straight after Dale?
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eaedwards6400 posted...

But if the swap screwed Kelly why didn't they go straight after Dale?

Idol paranoia, I think.
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Idol paranoia explains the split vote, but not the Kelley boot over Dale.
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I forgot how close Chase was to beating Fabio. Like if he doesn't completely blow FTC he probably would have one in my opinion.

So as we all know, Brenda is the only one to return to and I think that has more to do with her being gorgeous than her skills at the game but this game has some decent prospects.

Holly, Marty, Chase (will never play), NaOnka, and Jane. And my personal opinion, Benry. Benry was much better than I remember. And while Sash is a prototype they like and I don't think he would be horrible. There are better options.

So my question is how much of what Jimmy Johnson is saying is true? It sounds awesome if true but they always seemed so staged lol
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NaOnka is not a decent prospect. Quitters are blacklisted no matter what they do to redeem themselves. Holly, Marty, Jane, and Sash are all great choices. Chase is too busy with his record deal to come back. And Benry isn't overly memorable to the casuals. Most people won't even recognize him despite he unique name.

The only quitter that was ever excused was Jenna Morasca because her mother actually died. NaOnka and Colton are the two quitters that are by far the least likely to even be considered for a return. They're horrible people who would quit again. Yes, even Purple Kelly has better odds - at least she's been active in the Survivor community and is a decent person, but she's not coming back either.
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watching Cambodia

who the HECK is Monica

wait

she was in Samoa

i watched that season. and predictably the only ones i remember are Russell and Natalie (literally only for the obvious reason though)

i thought Cambodia was a fan voted season.

fans love Monica!
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I don't get me wrong. I hated Nay and she is an awful person but she was pretty good for the show because of how much of an antagonist she was.
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Cambodias fan vote females were awful.

Monica, nobody.
Natalie T., sheep nobody.
Mikayla, nobody pre-merge boot.
Kelley, nobody pre-merge boot.
Stephanie, pre-merge boot from a terrible season.
Kimmi, pre-merge boot from decades prior.

Of the sixteen women in the voting, 10 would inevitably make it through, meaning there was a WIDE margin of error for these six to MAYBE secure spots.
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kateee posted...

i thought Cambodia was a fan voted season.

It was. They picked 20 from a ballot of 32. The 12 that didn't make it were:
Stephanie V
Natalie T
Teresa
Sabrina
Mikayla W
Carolyn (from season 30)
Shane
Troyzan
Brad Culpepper
Jim Rice
Max (from season 30)
Winner of season 30 put on the ballot as a decoy, had enough votes to get on but removed from the running because he won
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well i still don't get how Monica made it in!

i saw some grumbling about Teresa Cooper not getting in and Monica is the obvious one that stands out. i don't even think she said anything until episode 3.

kateee posted...

well i still don't get how Monica made it in!

i saw some grumbling about Teresa Cooper not getting in and Monica is the obvious one that stands out. i don't even think she said anything until episode 3.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. At least Wentworth, as invisible and irrelevant as she was in SJDS, had a huge fan campaign going for her via RHAP. Monica was a minor character overshadowed by Russell Hantz from a season over five years prior to Cambodia. I DEFINITELY blame her for Teresa's boot.
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kateee posted...

i saw some grumbling about Teresa Cooper not getting in

Teresa and Shane were the two big ones that the hardcore internet fanbase was disappointed/surprised didn't get in. In Teresa's case, she has the misfortune of being from season 3 which is ancient but not held in the holy status that the world holds the first two seasons. In Shane's case, he himself admitted that while the hardcore fanbase loves him, the casuals, who made up the majority of the voters, hate him.
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