Current Events > 6th grade student allegedly assaulted by teacher for not standing during pledge.

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ConfessPlease
09/15/17 10:32:22 AM
#102:


--kresnik-- posted...
ConfessPlease posted...
Santorin posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Sounds like another case of attention seekers. Clock Boy Mk II.


Exactly.

I see no reason to not say the pledge. If a student wants to be dismissed from activities at school it should be authorized from a parent form to avoid these issues.


You really think he did it for attention? He has probably been doing it since kindergarten and it's never been an issue.

No, he's been doing it since his parents showed him the "modern American hero" Colin "racist" karppernick.


I never did it because I grew up as a Jehovah Witness and the main reason was to not worship idols. If they want to believe that great that's their right. No one is trying to be a modern hero. You are just an ass because someone doesn't worship a piece of cloth.
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Santorin
09/15/17 10:32:34 AM
#103:


Balrog0 posted...
I lost my recess that day


Good you could have just not said anything in your edgy angst instead you chose to be disruptive for your own amusement.
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Antifar
09/15/17 10:32:36 AM
#104:


Kyurem-BW posted...
2-i dont see where that says they cant be sent to the principal for insubordination and get a light punishment. not every punishment is expulsion then going for delinquency,

The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag


If there's a punishment for not doing it, you are compelling students to do it.
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Phantom_Nook
09/15/17 10:33:20 AM
#105:


--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is an acceptable form of "class discipline"?
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--kresnik--
09/15/17 10:33:49 AM
#106:


Rules are laws are separate. look at what happened to dawkinsnumber. Free speech doesn't exist here and it sure as hell doesn't exist in school. You follow the RULES or you get disciplined.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how this one kid's parents' words would have disrupted the close class. You stand for the anthem or you go home.
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MikeArmstrong
09/15/17 10:34:04 AM
#107:


Phantom_Nook posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is just "class discipline"?

"You have the freedom to choose either to stand or get an ass whooping!!"
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That_Happened
09/15/17 10:34:06 AM
#108:


Kyurem-BW posted...
That_Happened posted...
The Admiral posted...
With that said, the superintendent does say kids have a choice in whether to participate or not, so the teacher is out of line here.

Regardless of what the superintendent says, The Supreme Court says students can't be forced to say the pledge. It's weird that any schools still haven't gotten that memo.

Kyurem-BW posted...
and teachers have the right and freedom to send a kid to the principal for breaking a rule and insubordination is against the rules

No, teachers absolutely don't have the right and freedom to punish a kid for not saying the pledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

1-lmao at wikipedia. i could go there and edit that page to say whatever i like(they would change it back eventually)

2-i dont see where that says they cant be sent to the principal for insubordination and get a light punishment. not every punishment is expulsion then going for delinquency,

just that they cant be expelled til they do it, then fined and jailed for being delinquent do to the insubordination

It says in the opening paragraph, it's "a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States holding that the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution protected students from being forced to salute the American flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance in school."

Punishing a student for not saying the pledge is forcing them to say it. You cannot do that in a public school. Point blank, done.

kinda like how bill did not get in trouble for the affair but for lying about it

What grade are you in?
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MikeArmstrong
09/15/17 10:34:33 AM
#109:


--kresnik-- posted...
Rules are laws are separate. look at what happened to dawkinsnumber. Free speech doesn't exist here and it sure as hell doesn't exist in school. You follow the RULES or you get disciplined.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how this one kid's parents' words would have disrupted the close class. You stand for the anthem or you go home.

Except that the Supreme Court disagrees with you lol
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ThePieReborn
09/15/17 10:35:17 AM
#110:


Lol@ the "lolwikipedia" remark for Barnette. It's easy enough to hunt down a brief from a law school's website. Shit, here's Cornell's for shits and giggles:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/319/624

Seriously, any public school opting to go against Barnette opens their ass up to liability, and law suits are NOT something public schools want. EVER.
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Antifar
09/15/17 10:35:46 AM
#112:


smh why don't conservatives believe in the constitution
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Kyurem-BW
09/15/17 10:35:53 AM
#113:


Antifar posted...
The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag

standing =/= saluting

it says both tried to get him to stand not to recite or salute
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--kresnik--
09/15/17 10:36:27 AM
#114:


Phantom_Nook posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is just "class discipline"?

By today's standards, he went too far. Never argued against that. Still, this is an open-and-shut case of a simple lawsuit, massive settlement, and a different school for the kid. We don't need to hear all over the nation that a bad little kid was punished for being defiant to his teacher.

"No, fuck this country, but let me enjoy all the FREE shit..."
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Balrog0
09/15/17 10:36:33 AM
#115:


Santorin posted...
Good you could have just not said anything in your edgy angst instead you chose to be disruptive for your own amusement.


okay, I was literally 4 bro

my point was actually that you can force kids to do something to be respectful without actually making them say the pledge
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#116
Post #116 was unavailable or deleted.
Lonestar2000
09/15/17 10:37:07 AM
#117:


Jesus fucking christ people, stop responding to southcoast/kresnik.
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MikeArmstrong
09/15/17 10:37:23 AM
#118:


--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is just "class discipline"?

By today's standards, he went too far. Never argued against that. Still, this is an open-and-shut case of a simple lawsuit, massive settlement, and a different school for the kid. We don't need to hear all over the nation that a bad little kid was punished for being defiant to his teacher.

"No, fuck this country, but let me enjoy all the FREE shit..."

By any standards, he went too far.
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mortimerjames
09/15/17 10:37:35 AM
#119:


i wonder where you people went to school, teachers have to be the most powerless authority figures in the us
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xBloodBrotherx
09/15/17 10:38:04 AM
#120:


BLAKUboy posted...
xBloodBrotherx posted...
It doesn't

Then why are you bitching about nothing?

Because I'm depressed, pessimistic, haven't slept, and am on meds making me loopy enough to the point where I'm willing to directly argue with myself within a single post.

Overall I'm not saying it matters, he doesn't have to do it (it shouldn't be in schools at all honesty), he definitely didn't deserve to have hands put on him or any form or punishment for it, the teacher should be fired, but at the same time the kids clearly just being edgy and in a way it's better for yourself to just go with the grain on certain things like that. Just regurgitate the meaningless words for 30 seconds and go on with your day. It's easier for everyone. That's the way life is really.
Again not saying it was okay or that he did anything wrong, just what's even the fucking point at the end if the day. The way we mindlessly regurgitate it is just as meaningless as sitting there doing nothing anyways.
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That_Happened
09/15/17 10:38:06 AM
#121:


Kyurem-BW posted...
Antifar posted...
The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag

standing =/= saluting

it says both tried to get him to stand not to recite or salute


Standing *is* saluting. A salute isn't a hand to the head, it's any gesture of respect. I hate how every discussion on the internet with people like this guy eventually becomes pulling out a dictionary and slowly defining words that should have been learned in grade school.
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A_Good_Boy
09/15/17 10:38:07 AM
#122:


--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

You just believe in modifying the rights of others until their choices superficially resemble your own.
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MikeArmstrong
09/15/17 10:38:29 AM
#123:


Lonestar2000 posted...
Jesus fucking christ people, stop responding to southcoast/kresnik.

It's just funny to see what bullshit he'll spout out next. Almost like a magic 8 ball, but you get insane fucked up responses.
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BLAKUboy
09/15/17 10:39:57 AM
#124:


xBloodBrotherx posted...
but at the same time the kids clearly just being edgy

I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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Darker Cheshire
09/15/17 10:41:19 AM
#125:


Remember when Topanga refused to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance?

Anyhow, why and how is this still a thing?
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That_Happened
09/15/17 10:41:36 AM
#126:


xBloodBrotherx posted...
in a way it's better for yourself to just go with the grain on certain things like that. Just regurgitate the meaningless words for 30 seconds and go on with your day. It's easier for everyone. That's the way life is really.

I'm definitely not saying this kid was a hero or anything, but just because you don't have the spine to stand up for your beliefs doesn't mean we should all act that way.
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Kyurem-BW
09/15/17 10:43:47 AM
#127:


That_Happened posted...
Kyurem-BW posted...
Antifar posted...
The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag

standing =/= saluting

it says both tried to get him to stand not to recite or salute



Standing *is* saluting. A salute isn't a hand to the head, it's any gesture of respect. I hate how every discussion on the internet with people like this guy eventually becomes pulling out a dictionary and slowly defining words that should have been learned in grade school.



source...

nvmd posting a pic of your a** would be moddable

here is the definition of salute
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/salute

nowhere does it say standing is saluting
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--kresnik--
09/15/17 10:44:30 AM
#128:


MikeArmstrong posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is just "class discipline"?

By today's standards, he went too far. Never argued against that. Still, this is an open-and-shut case of a simple lawsuit, massive settlement, and a different school for the kid. We don't need to hear all over the nation that a bad little kid was punished for being defiant to his teacher.

"No, fuck this country, but let me enjoy all the FREE shit..."

By any standards, he went too far.

How old are you?? When I was going to school, parents could give the school permission to hit their kids. It happened all the time, though my parents didn't give them permission to hit my brother and me.
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Volkswagen_Bros
09/15/17 10:45:20 AM
#129:


While I'm not patriotic, and probably never will be, people who don't stand up for the pledge are self-righteous pieces of garbage.

With that said, I don't condone what the teacher did, but at the same time, I feel no pity.
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Balrog0
09/15/17 10:45:27 AM
#130:


--kresnik-- posted...
How old are you?? When I was going to school, parents could give the school permission to hit their kids. It happened all the time, though my parents didn't give them permission to hit my brother and me.


that's still how it is in many places in the US
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sktgamer_13dude
09/15/17 10:49:45 AM
#132:


--kresnik-- posted...
MikeArmstrong posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
--kresnik-- posted...
Phantom_Nook posted...
Conservatives love to pretend they're pro-free speech, except in cases like this.


We just don't believe in turning class discliplne into a nationwide witch hunt.

So you think assaulting a child because he didn't say the pledge is just "class discipline"?

By today's standards, he went too far. Never argued against that. Still, this is an open-and-shut case of a simple lawsuit, massive settlement, and a different school for the kid. We don't need to hear all over the nation that a bad little kid was punished for being defiant to his teacher.

"No, fuck this country, but let me enjoy all the FREE shit..."

By any standards, he went too far.

How old are you?? When I was going to school, parents could give the school permission to hit their kids. It happened all the time, though my parents didn't give them permission to hit my brother and me.

So that makes it ok to hit children?

Southcoast looking like more and more of a joke every time he posts lol
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BLAKUboy
09/15/17 10:49:57 AM
#133:


Kyurem-BW posted...
here is the definition of salute
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/salute

to address with expressions of goodwill, respect

That_Happened posted...
A salute isn't a hand to the head, it's any gesture of respect.


You literally proved his point, dude.
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Zodd3224
09/15/17 10:50:49 AM
#134:


Free speech entails being able to sit for the pledge of allegiance.

Many people who are for racist rally free speech are not against this teacher denying a child his free speech, lmao. Pick and choose.
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That_Happened
09/15/17 10:55:21 AM
#135:


Kyurem-BW posted...
source...

nvmd posting a pic of your a** would be moddable

here is the definition of salute
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/salute

nowhere does it say standing is saluting


2. to address with expressions of goodwill, respect, etc.
3. to make a bow or other gesture to, as in greeting, farewell, or respect.
4. to express respect or praise for; honor; commend.

All 3 of these are why you are asked to stand during the pledge: it is a gesture of respect to show praise for the nation. It doesn't have to say "stand" specifically. The Supreme Court ruled that students do not have to say, salute, stand, or even acknowledge the pledge of allegiance. Now shut the fuck up and take the L.
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Twinmold
09/15/17 10:56:40 AM
#136:


27_Sandman_40 posted...
Twinmold posted...
At this point, whenever I see a situation like this, I think of the most morally repugnant position I could take on the issue, and what a coincidence, that's generally the conservative position on the matter.


Generalizing and immediately judging people is probably one of the most morally repugnant things you can do tbqh

Is that why so many conservative good ole' boys are rushing in to prove me right?
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Funkydog
09/15/17 10:57:43 AM
#137:


Americans having such a hardon for the pledge is so fucking bizarre when they stand so strongly for free speech elsewhere - so much that they outclass the rest of the world in that manner (for good or ill, depending on how you view it) but then double down hard in the other direction when it comes to the flag.

It is so contradictory and is rather unsettling how willing many of them are to buy into the indoctrination of it all.
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xBloodBrotherx
09/15/17 10:58:37 AM
#138:


That_Happened posted...
xBloodBrotherx posted...
in a way it's better for yourself to just go with the grain on certain things like that. Just regurgitate the meaningless words for 30 seconds and go on with your day. It's easier for everyone. That's the way life is really.

I'm definitely not saying this kid was a hero or anything, but just because you don't have the spine to stand up for your beliefs doesn't mean we should all act that way.

The kid literally said he doesn't pledge to the flag and then unironically said that he pledges to the entire point of the pledge of allegiance/the representation of the flag.
He's just a dumb, edgy, contrarian kid that doesn't even realize he just contradicted himself to the point where he's actually going out of his way to not have a backbone and support his beliefs.
At least mindlessly parroting it for 30 seconds is just you going with the grain for normalcy sake even if the words don't really have much meaning to you. This kid is going out of his way and against the grain to not support his own self admitted beliefs.
That's not backbone, it's just stupidity.
It's like when you watch some videos online of someone do something real stupid and then you'll have someone say "wow he has balls" when in reality no, he's just stupid.

And also calling him stupid isn't even just a targeted insult, all 6th graders are dumb asses, you're supposed to be at that age.
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That_Happened
09/15/17 10:59:23 AM
#139:


Funkydog posted...
It is so contradictory and is rather unsettling how willing many of them are to buy into the indoctrination of it all.

I agree. Any time I see a person's house decorated with American flags, I worry the person is either incredibly simple minded or foolishly patriotic. The first is mostly harmless but the second...yikes.
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Santorin
09/15/17 11:00:19 AM
#140:


xBloodBrotherx posted...
The kid literally said he doesn't pledge to the flag and then unironically said that he pledges to the entire point of the pledge of allegiance/the representation of the flag.
He's just a dumb, edgy, contrarian kid that doesn't even realize he just contradicted himself to the point where he's actually going out of his way to not have a backbone and support his beliefs.
At least mindlessly parroting it for 30 seconds is just you going with the grain for normalcy sake even if the words don't really have much meaning to you. This kid is going out of his way and against the grain to not support his own self admitted beliefs.
That's not backbone, it's just stupidity.
It's like when you watch some videos online of someone do something real stupid and then you'll have someone say "wow he has balls" when in reality no, he's just stupid.

And also calling him stupid isn't even just a targeted insult, all 6th graders are dumb asses, you're supposed to be at that age.


Don't forget his parents being part of the problem.
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Funkydog
09/15/17 11:00:34 AM
#141:


That_Happened posted...
Funkydog posted...
It is so contradictory and is rather unsettling how willing many of them are to buy into the indoctrination of it all.

I agree. Any time I see a person's house decorated with American flags, I worry the person is either incredibly simple minded or foolishly patriotic. The first is mostly harmless but the second...yikes.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far myself. If people want to be patriotic to their country and wear its flags I really don't care. It is only a concern when they feel it is a requirement for others to do the same.
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That_Happened
09/15/17 11:00:42 AM
#142:


xBloodBrotherx posted...
The kid literally said he doesn't pledge to the flag and then unironically said that he pledges to the entire point of the pledge of allegiance/the representation of the flag.
He's just a dumb, edgy, contrarian kid that doesn't even realize he just contradicted himself to the point where he's actually going out of his way to not have a backbone and support his beliefs.
At least mindlessly parroting it for 30 seconds is just you going with the grain for normalcy sake even if the words don't really have much meaning to you. This kid is going out of his way and against the grain to not support his own self admitted beliefs.
That's not backbone, it's just stupidity.
It's like when you watch some videos online of someone do something real stupid and then you'll have someone say "wow he has balls" when in reality no, he's just stupid.

So much projection in one post.
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A_Good_Boy
09/15/17 11:01:09 AM
#143:


Zodd3224 posted...
Free speech entails being able to sit for the pledge of allegiance.

Many people who are for racist rally free speech are not against this teacher denying a child his free speech, lmao. Pick and choose.

Southcoast will bend over backwards to protect the right for nazis to openly advocate for ethnic cleansing the nation of brown people while at the same time fighting tooth and nail to deny a 6th grade black kid the right to sit during the pledge.
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Santorin
09/15/17 11:02:06 AM
#144:


That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.
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ThePieReborn
09/15/17 11:03:02 AM
#145:


That_Happened posted...
Kyurem-BW posted...
source...

nvmd posting a pic of your a** would be moddable

here is the definition of salute
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/salute

nowhere does it say standing is saluting


2. to address with expressions of goodwill, respect, etc.
3. to make a bow or other gesture to, as in greeting, farewell, or respect.
4. to express respect or praise for; honor; commend.

All 3 of these are why you are asked to stand during the pledge: it is a gesture of respect to show praise for the nation. It doesn't have to say "stand" specifically. The Supreme Court ruled that students do not have to say, salute, stand, or even acknowledge the pledge of allegiance. Now shut the fuck up and take the L.

And to just add on, here is the closing to the Barnette opinion:
"We think the action of the local authorities in compelling the flag salute and pledge transcends constitutional limitations on their power, and invades the sphere of intellect and spirit which it is the purpose of the First Amendment to our Constitution to reserve from all official control."
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That_Happened
09/15/17 11:05:01 AM
#146:


Santorin posted...
This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

His entire stance is speculation. Am I supposed to debate whether this kid that none of us know is a contrarian tryhard moron who is just trying to be edgy, or a freedom-fighting hero sjw, despite having zero facts on any of it? I'd rather stick to the facts.
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sktgamer_13dude
09/15/17 11:05:33 AM
#147:


Santorin posted...
That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

Pot calling kettle black.
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Santorin
09/15/17 11:08:00 AM
#148:


sktgamer_13dude posted...
Santorin posted...
That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

Pot calling kettle black.


I've made plenty of posts with actual content and thought. Just look at my activity.

Just because people have a different viewpoint than yourself doesn't automatically make their posts shit.

Or MAYBE you just don't know what a shit post is.
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EyeWontBeFooled
09/15/17 11:08:49 AM
#149:


I went to school with a Jehovah's Witness follower who wouldn't stand or sing for the recital of O Canada. I imagine it plays out much the same way for them with The Star-Spangled Banner and the pledge.
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A_Good_Boy
09/15/17 11:09:10 AM
#150:


Santorin posted...
That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

His stance is he can't understand why a 6th grader isn't rationalizing his views like an adult would. How much argumentation do you require before acknowledging the difference in reasoning skills between an adult and a child?
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sktgamer_13dude
09/15/17 11:09:19 AM
#151:


Santorin posted...
sktgamer_13dude posted...
Santorin posted...
That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

Pot calling kettle black.


I've made plenty of posts with actual content and thought. Just look at my activity.

Just because people have a different viewpoint than yourself doesn't automatically make their posts shit.

Or MAYBE you just don't know what a shit post is.

lel
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That_Happened
09/15/17 11:09:56 AM
#152:


Santorin posted...
I've made plenty of posts with actual content and thought. Just look at my activity.

Santorin posted...
(to Asherlee) You're hawt when you get feisty I like it. Makes me wish I was a girl or you liked guys. *blows kiss*

*cringe*

Why did you suggest we look at your activity???
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Santorin
09/15/17 11:11:08 AM
#153:


A_Good_Boy posted...
Santorin posted...
That_Happened posted...
So much projection in one post.


This isn't even an effort to debate his stance. It's just shit posting.

His stance is he can't understand why a 6th grader isn't rationalizing his views like an adult would. How much argumentation do you require before acknowledging the difference in reasoning skills between an adult and a child?


I already blamed the parent more than once if you cared to read through the thread.

And even blamed the school system for not taking steps to acknowledge the parents were allowing him to opt out of the participation.
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I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. Patrick Henry
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