Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - The enemy always wins. (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

beric deserves some ups for his line in a week rife with bad writing
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Beric is a straight up boss. Probably the best part of the episode overall.
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I also enjoyed Gendry essentially shitting his pants when he realized what he was up against. Dude essentially got a taste of the Quentyn Martell existence.
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I thought for sure Beric was gonna be the one to die in this one.
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I did enjoy the Hound commandeering the warhammer.

There were a lot of good individual moments, but it seems like anything overarching struggled.
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Oh I guess it was Tormund who did the actual commandeering, but the Hound used it during the actual battle.

It's like Gendry's entire purpose was for them to have a reason to have a warhammer, since they seemed insistent on everyone having a unique weapon (seriously Jorah, when did you start dual-wielding daggers?)
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They were dragonglass daggers. He didn't have a Valyrian steel or flaming sword, so they were his best option.
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Were they? I must have missed them mentioning that. The warhammer and Tormund's axe were conventional weaponry though, I thought his were too.
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do we have any evidence that dragonglass/valyrian steel has any outsized impact on wights
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Wights are just regular zombies that are also weak to fire
Doesn't look like Dragonglass affect them differently
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Enjoyable episode. Questionable writing in the behind the wall stuff. Arya/Sansa was jarring but overall fine. Arya and Sansa have never liked each other and parted while on awful terms.

That's all I'm gonna say because these topics are ridiculous, people are so damn hyperbolic here, and I say that as a book reader who would change some things the show did.
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Tag
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You can defend Arya/Sansa as being in character all you want. It's more of it being totally unsatisfying for a lot of people to see these two characters regress into squabbling straight out of S1 after they've both gone through arcs showing how much they value their family and had a nice reunion. That's why people are reacting to it so harshly.
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Tag
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Nah people aren't be hyperbolic so much as fans who have invested so much time into the show don't want to admit there is really bad writing.
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I think there's some bad writing - it's very clear almost all the time that there are X dots that the writers want to connect, and that . But there are also some unmatchable expectations and there's an understandable impatience that's often pretty unfair.

The example that comes to mind: Jon is in possession of the ancestral Mormont sword, Longclaw. It was a gift to him by the Old Bear, who foresook all his titles. The sword no longer belong to House Mormont when he left the Watch, and was bestowed upon Jon for a reason. A lot of fans were really salty in earlier episodes that no Mormont - Lyanna or Jorah - ever commented on Jon's possessing this blade. Keep in mind I never had an issue with this.

In 7x06, when we finally get a chance to breathe, Jon takes two minutes of precious screen time to return the sword to Jorah. This scene almost explicitly kowtowing to fans' desires - and I've yet to hear a word of acknowledgement that this 'loose end' was tied up. It's kind of a no-win situation there when it comes to expectations.
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I don't know if that's fair. There's been a ton of fanservice this season and positive chatter about that. People loved the Stark reunion, Gendry coming back, the scene with Gilly reading about Rhaegar, and generally just seeing new and old combinations of character interactions. But they have hits and misses like normal. This episode has it pretty bad because the bulk of it is dedicated to two plotlines, and so if you're frustrated with one or the other it'll be a bigger factor.

I did really like the dialogue between the members of Team Beyond the Wall, it's just clearly not the meat of the episode.
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Also thinking about the bad writing thing, I remembered how in S1 the major turn in Ned's story that caused him to confront Cersei and then ultimately get murdered and ruin the Starks and cause all these wars for 7 seasons was.... that he realized Joffrey was blond.

Sure they sold that "twist" way better and the show in general was just better structured back then, but totally dumb writing like that has always been in the show, when it was tied to the books and now as well.
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But sansa/arya battle Royale is all because of Petyr meddling to get what he needs. With out little finger they don't fight.

Hiw are people getting pissy over the family kerfuffle?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Also thinking about the bad writing thing, I remembered how in S1 the major turn in Ned's story that caused him to confront Cersei and then ultimately get murdered and ruin the Starks and cause all these wars for 7 seasons was.... that he realized Joffrey was blond.

Sure they sold that "twist" way better and the show in general was just better structured back then, but totally dumb writing like that has always been in the show, when it was tied to the books and now as well.

Well there was no Maester Gregor Mendell around to explain basic genetic concepts to people. That's why Ned and Arryn had to go see Robert's bastards for themselves.

But maybe you're right. Maybe this is all a ruse by Martin. He's using the criticism of the show to make drastic changes to his books, and that's why they haven't been released yet!
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Also I like the parallel of Jon forsaking everything to get to the NK and Jaime charging Dany.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But maybe you're right. Maybe this is all a ruse by Martin. He's using the criticism of the show to make drastic changes to his books, and that's why they haven't been released yet!

I was making this argument to some friends a couple weeks ago, specifically regarding the Hold The Door reveal, which is still by far the stupidest nonsense the show has ever done.

Let's say you're GRRM and you have been writing this epic book series for 20 years that you put your entire life into. It is your entire identity and your most precious creation in your entire life. 20 years ago, you wrote an amazing backstory for Hodor. You have been waiting 20 years to finally reveal it to everyone. All the tiny hints and breadcrumbs you left behind will finally mean something. It's a culmination of your entire life.

And then these dumbass TV show people come around and they want to reveal what Hodor means, before you can, and take all the credit for themselves. Hodor isn't yours anymore, he is theirs. 20 years down the drain.

So then, do you tell them what Hodor really means? Or do you tell them some stupid garbage you shat out in 30 seconds that will satisfy TV watchers, and keep the good stuff for yourself?

This concept can extend to much of the show's writing.
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I don't know why, but the death of a dragon will always be way more sad to me than any human character dying.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

do we have any evidence that dragonglass/valyrian steel has any outsized impact on wights

In the books we specifically see that they do not. Jon uses Longclaw to minimal effect when saving the Old Bear, and Sam uses dragonglass with no luck when he and Gilly encounter an undead Night's Watch guy north of the Wall. Fire is the only effective weapon against wights. On the show regular weapons are more effective, probably due to the difficulty of choreographing a bunch of fight scenes with everyone needing fire.

Meanwhile we don't know that fire is particularly effective vs White Walkers, only Valyrian steel and dragonglass. My gut feeling is that dragon fire and wildfire are powerful enough that they work on everything, but we don't know for sure and I doubt regular fire is any issue for them.
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AquaArcane posted...

I don't know why, but the death of a dragon will always be way more sad to me than any human character dying.

Probably because there's only three dragons in the world and there likely will never be any more, whereas there's tons of people.
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Also

Because dragons are awesome
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- Happy about the Longclaw scene. It's little character moments like this that this season has been desperately lacking.

- Wouldn't even be any kind of mad if Arya died right now. What a ****.

- Tormund + Sandor = OTP

- I don't want to whinge about "inconsistencies" but in a way it frustrates me that they're just walking beyond the Wall, not half-dying of the cold. I know Gendry had his complaint scene but I feel like the cold was something that was constantly mentioned in S1 - 4 and now nobody really seems to care while it should be way colder.

- I really like Beric's actor.

- Wow, a good Tyrion scene, I'd forgotten what these looked like.

- I'm super frustrated with the Game of Thrones social media presence. They're now doing #ThronesThrowback, which referred to Arya's "It's not you" from S1 and with Nymeria and now with Jon and Tormund and Mance reference. How dumb must you think your audience is (or how clever you are) to be like "HEY GUYS THIS THING FROM THE SCRIPT REFERENCES THIS OTHER THING WE MENTIONED BEFORE!". Now we know why they didn't do the fAegon storyline; they probably thought nobody would have a single clue who Aegon or Rhaegar was....

- Wow, really, Sansa? Dany and Cersei would both be present at the KL meeting but you're just gonna send a knight? I mean, I guess the North doesn't need to be convinced that the undead walk but one could argue Dany also needs not be there, although I guess there needs to be a person of import for the parlay.

- Man this season sure loves its drowning scenes...

- Shame about Benjen. Would've loved to see Rhaegal save Jon but this was nice too I guess.

- No one's any kind of worried that they were able to bring a wight beyond the Wall? I guess no magic properties to the thing huh.

- I think Dany should be way more upset about the death of one of her sons (even if it was Viserion)

- Maybe Arya has already killed Littlefinger and is acting like him to see how trustworthy Sansa is?

- How dumb is Sansa for breaking into Arya's room who has shown clear ninja skills, thinking she won't find out?

- Sansa's life:
1. Tortured by the Joff
2. Tortured by the Robin and the Lysa
3. Tortured by the Ramsay
4. Tortured by her bitch little sister. Sorry Arya, if you think your suffering has anything on Sansa's you crazy.

- HOW ABOUT YOU TALK WITH BRAN SO YOU CAN FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT YOU DUMB PEOPLE!

- fffffffffu Dany wants the D so bad

- Okay now I get my sad scene

- HOW DO THE WHITE WALKERS HAVE HUGE ASS CHAINS!

- I really don't understand why people acted baffled when I said Viserion was 100 % going to be the Blue Eyes Wight Dragon. Rhaegal is totally Jon's dragon and nothing can stop Drogo, so if he would've been turned it would've been bad end for Westeros. Viserys was always the bad guy so it makes sense that would be turned.
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actual line from the creator on after the episode:

We were thinking, "How can you possibly survive that situation?" and we came upon the idea that the one way they could survive was that they would be in the middle of an island. And we thought if you put five, ten thousand wights on the ice, that might believably break it.

so yeah. essentially, they're not hiding the fact that they are moving the characters according to the plot and not according to the rules.
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I have no idea how next week's episode goes or how this season somehow ends after just one more episode. last week just feels like a midseason finale more than a big battle leading up to any kind of climax.
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Without giving a single detail, I really liked the trailer for next week. Visually, at least, it looks wonderful, and the settings are really exciting to me.
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transience posted...

I have no idea how next week's episode goes

cleganebowl or we riot
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I guess something has to happen with KL since we completely dropped that plotline halfway through the season

remember Euron? yeah. (I don't miss him)
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did he just leave the Rock after torching the ships? I thought he was out there harassing the Unsullied.
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trailers show the unsullied and the dothraki at the gates of king's landing, and i'm pretty sure euron's fleet back in shipbreaker's bay at king's landing's shores. we don't see euron's face. it looks like that ocean siege was lifted by the greyjoys, or that the unsullied simply didn't bother trying to hold the rock and marched east instead.
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Any HQ leaks out yet?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Any HQ leaks out yet?

8x02 is amazing, best episode of the show.
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speaking of beric

he gave off MAJOR obi-wan kenobi vibes this episode, i think we can all agree

but i loved this particularly star wars-esque exchange:

Jon: Daenerys is our only hope.
Beric: No... there is another.
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You know I'm kinda okay we didn't get [spoiler] if it meant we got to keep the Lightning Lord.
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i think we need a lot more of the books for [spoiler] to be better than beric. so far [spoiler] in the books isn't that great even.
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RyoCaliente posted...

8x02 is amazing, best episode of the show.

The sex scene between the Night King and Arya was a bit much though
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foolm0r0n posted...

The sex scene between the Night King and Arya was a bit much though

I thought it was well written, but the part where she's wearing Jaime's face kind of took me out of it.
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Tag
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SeabassDebeste posted...

I thought it was well written, but the part where she's wearing Jaime's face kind of took me out of it.

I liked that because of D&D's confirmation that the Night King is a woman so fake-Jaime can actually impregnate her

Winter is coming
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SeabassDebeste posted...

i think we need a lot more of the books for [spoiler] to be better than beric. so far [spoiler] in the books isn't that great even.

One of the few deviations show made better. Beric >>>>>>>> zombie Cat
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- I'm super frustrated with the Game of Thrones social media presence. They're now doing #ThronesThrowback, which referred to Arya's "It's not you" from S1 and with Nymeria and now with Jon and Tormund and Mance reference. How dumb must you think your audience is (or how clever you are) to be like "HEY GUYS THIS THING FROM THE SCRIPT REFERENCES THIS OTHER THING WE MENTIONED BEFORE!"

I mean its a super popular show and there are a lot of far more casual viewers. I didn't get the Arya thing the first time, I thought she literally meant that it wasn't Nymeria >_>. I don't remember every line from S1. It's very specific.
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Fucktons of people still don't even realize Jon is a Targaryen.
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I really hope they don't keep dropping that "bomb" like it's some sort of actual revelation though.

But with Bran and Sam hanging around I feel like we're going to get it at least twice more.
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game of thrones season 7 version of the red wedding

robb has just been shot with crossbow bolts. then, suddenly, blackfish and the hound both run in and start killing freys.
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I'm on team bad episode.

Made me think Tormund was gonna die though. Good on them.

Very beautiful scenery.

The banter between the super team was good.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Fucktons of people still don't even realize Jon is a Targaryen.

FFDragon posted...

I really hope they don't keep dropping that "bomb" like it's some sort of actual revelation though.

But with Bran and Sam hanging around I feel like we're going to get it at least twice more.

I kind of hope Howland Reed shows up just because they did show him surviving the Tower of Joy scene in the show, but I know he won't.
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