Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: You're Shivering, Are You Afraid?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's now Sunday, meaning it's time for the weekly reminder that Hearthstone is in no way a skill based game.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Blizzard is such a joke company. They can't even balance their friends list correctly. I played Magic the Gathering for 75 years and it always had balanced friends lists.

It actually is relevant that Blizzard constantly has glitches on simple things like friend lists and chat options. They can't get that right, but you expect them to get important things like game design and balance correct.

Steam and League have no chat issues, and what do you know, their games are good.

UltiXX posted...

It's now Sunday, meaning it's time for the weekly reminder that Hearthstone is in no way a skill based game.

Who are you arguing with?
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Ulti just likes being super repetitious
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Turns out Plague Scientist is really good in arena. Who woulda guessed?
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Pally continuing to do work, down to rank 12. Beat pirate warrior and jade druid after, feels good
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bng_mmmk posted...

Dead Man's Hand is so cool that it almost makes me want to play warrior.

do you mean for constructed? I think Savjz came up with a pretty decent C'thun list recently that makes use of Dead Man's Hand for a control warrior. I can't vouch that it's actually good but it seemed fun to play and he was using it at Legend ranks.
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UltiXX posted...

It's now Sunday, meaning it's time for the weekly reminder that Hearthstone is in no way a skill based game.

I feel like it's been less than a week...
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MariaTaylor posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Dead Man's Hand is so cool that it almost makes me want to play warrior.

do you mean for constructed? I think Savjz came up with a pretty decent C'thun list recently that makes use of Dead Man's Hand for a control warrior. I can't vouch that it's actually good but it seemed fun to play and he was using it at Legend ranks.

I think he's thinking of the Blood Warriors list with infinite Giants
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Arena #8
I Was Offered: Shaman/Hunter/Warrior
I Picked: Hunter


Not picking a bottom tier class. I guess it's Hunter again. Luckily it's my favorite class so I doubt I'll really get tired of picking it. That being said, if I'd been offered almost anything else aside from Shaman or Warrior I likely would have picked it. Really want to try Paladin but haven't gotten a great chance yet.

The Draft: Got stuck with a lot of heavy but high value cards early on. This made the back end of the draft a little weird where I just had to go with what was offered in order to fill out the curve. I ended up passing on a second Bonemare in favor of a solid three drop. Not sure if that was the right call. Wasn't offered any legendaries and I got less Beasts and less early drops than is normal for my Hunter drafts. The tier score is about equal with some of the ones I've drafted in the past but I don't picture this doing as well. I suppose we'll see. Also worth noting that I passed over on Nerubian Prophet and picked a lower quality card. This is something I usually do if the difference is not that huge, I'm just not a fan of Nerubian Prophet.

Game 1: Vs Shaman. I went First. Shaky opener but I managed to make something out of it. I got insane Kooky Chemist value on curve on turn four. This is actually the card I picked over Nerubian Prophet so it felt pretty good. My opponent had a weak deck, a weak opener, and made overall weak plays. Lucky first opponent. Win.

Game 2: Vs Warlock. I went Second. Drew some of my control tools early on but not many minions. Might be possible to defend the board but will be difficult to seize it if he has a strong opener. He did not. He tried playing emperor cobra but it was a weak play and I denied it value. Kooky Chemist was a lot more awkward for me to play this turn, but I held onto him instead of playing on curve and made a bigger play later on. Bonemare value to drive the lategame advantage. Win.

Game 3: Vs Rogue. I went First. Another shaky opener. This deck might have a weaker curve than I realized, or I've just been getting unlucky. If he has nothing then I'll be okay. If he has something I'll be in trouble. Rogue does tend to dagger up on turn 2, so the fact that I had only a secret to play instead of a minion was not as big of a deal. I did have 1, 3, and 4 drops. He played out some stuff on curve but really just set me up for very favorable trades. These bad plays eventually led to me setting up a hero power clock and I grinded his HP down by turn 8. Win.

Game 4: VS Druid. I went Second. Yet another pretty shaky opener. Yikes. I've kinda pushed my luck getting to 3-0 despite having nothing but bad openers, and I have a bad feeling about this match. GOD DAMN. The guy has literally every single answer on curve from turns 3 to 7. Just a ton of really clunky cards that need to be paired together to be good and not only was this guy lucky enough to draft them but he also happens to have them in hand at the same time. Very frustrating stuff to see in Arena. Also has Ultimate Infestation to drop right on turn 10. AND AGAIN ON TURN 11. How in the hell do people draft these kinds of decks? I somehow managed to outplay him and take the victory. Man there's almost nothing more satisfying than absolutely stomping a worse player who has a clearly superior deck in arena. Win.
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something worth noting, I was just watching over the replay. on turn 3 he played gadgetzan socialiate to heal himself for 1 damage (from 29 to 30), and then attacked my minion and took 2 damage (from 30 back down to 28). if he had played them in the correct order he would have attacked first and then healed himself, bringing himself up to 29 life.

I had exact lethal on turn 11. meaning that if he did not make this misplay early on he would have had the 1 extra HP to stay alive for another turn and perhaps play out some more of his answers. he did have a hand full of cards so it's very likely he might have been holding something good.

on turn 6 he also killed one of my beasts BEFORE killing my scavenging hyena. this caused his minion to take 4 damage instead of 2, and I was able to kill it with Arcane Shot on the following turn because it had only 2 HP instead of 4 HP. huge game-swinging moment which directly resulted from another misplay on his end.
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MariaTaylor posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Dead Man's Hand is so cool that it almost makes me want to play warrior.

do you mean for constructed? I think Savjz came up with a pretty decent C'thun list recently that makes use of Dead Man's Hand for a control warrior. I can't vouch that it's actually good but it seemed fun to play and he was using it at Legend ranks.

The problem with Dead Man's Hand is that the mirror is literally a 30-minute guaranteed tie.

it is, however, one of the few decks that actually really, really wants to run Skulking Geist >_>
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Anyone had any experience with Valeera the Hollow? Seems like a really underrated card.
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Was just reading over on the hearthstone board that Dog just won a game against Quest Mage through fatigue as Dead Man's Hand Warrior. Got to 150 armor and the Quest Mage couldn't burn through him in one turn, roped out with Dog still having 30 health left.
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Man, just drafted a Druid deck and in my first game I had the 2/2 that gives a 5+ attack minion give me Inkmaster Solia.

On turn ten I played her, another 3 drop, and then a free Ultimate Infestation. That felt dirty.
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azuarc posted...

Anyone had any experience with Valeera the Hollow? Seems like a really underrated card.

Her effect is very strong. The main issue is that rogue still lacks the control type tools it needs to really make her useful imo. Like rogue is either a tempo or rev up big dudes quickly type and win before turn 9. Combo rogue has been dead since emp rotated out.
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Game 5: Vs Shaman. I went First. I had a solid opening curve. His opening was unfortunately just way, way better. He gets ahead on the board early on and I only manage to gain a bit of a break due to him misplaying. First messing up by getting tilted because of me having a secret, then him seemingly playing right into it despite the fact that he must have known what it was??? Honestly not sure what happened there. Guess the better player just naturally comes out ahead sometimes in Hearthstone, even with worse luck. Win.

Game 6: Vs Warlock. I went First. absolutely bottom of the barrel opener. Had no turn on play 1 or 2, easily worst opening hand of the draft so far. To compound this issue he had Doomguard ON CURVE and had silverware golem in his hand and discarded it. That is just brutal bad luck on my end (or really good luck on his end, depending on your POV)! Followed by Kabal Trafficker while I have absolutely no way to interact with the board. As you might imagine, things did not get better from here. Disgusting Loss.

Game 7: Vs Warlock. I went Second. Better opening hand this time, at least. One of the better ones I've drawn. I curvestoned out better than before, started pushing face at probably the best time. Played a key Necrotic Geist, and overall never let him get on the board. Much better performance when I draw well. He got RNG Blessed with Greater Healing Potion off of Kabal Chemist but it wasn't nearly enough to keep him alive. Feels good. Win.

Game 8: Vs Priest. I went First. I know there's no way a Priest gets this high unless his deck is insane so I'm on my guard already. Another bad opener on my part, but neither of us draw a 2 drop so things just start off late rather than me starting off behind. I push face damage as hard as possible, not wanting to see what late game threats he has in store for me. He.... he .... he uses Shadow Madness... steals my Boom O' Clock.... and hits himself in the face for five damage. What the fuck is going on in Arena lately. How are there SO MANY bad players right now, getting to ridiculously high scores like 7-1? Win.
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This is the rogue list im running

### Jade
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 1x (0) Shadowstep
# 2x (1) Hallucination
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Swashburglar
# 2x (2) Doomsayer
# 2x (2) Jade Shuriken
# 2x (2) Jade Swarmer
# 2x (2) Sap
# 1x (2) Undercity Huckster
# 2x (3) Earthen Ring Farseer
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 2x (3) Fan of Knives
# 1x (3) Shaku, the Collector
# 2x (4) Jade Spirit
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 1x (6) Aya Blackpaw
# 1x (6) Skulking Geist
# 2x (6) Vanish
# 1x (9) Valeera the Hollow

Not sure what to do to make it better. Almost think it's nearly optimized but jade rogue is just not good.
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Wow holy crap. Just had the most ridiculous game.

Playing DK Warlock vs a Raza DK Priest. He plays DK Anduin and after a few turns he plays DK Gul'dan cause he stole it from my deck. Then a few turns later he plays DK Jaina cause he discovered one from a Cabal Courier (I think this was mine that he took too). Then he uses Benedictus to steal my Gul'dan DK again cause it happened to be one of my bottom five cards and then ends the game as Gul'dan.

He ended up winning in fatigue after playing four DK cards.
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yeah, I've had a couple really fun games where classes end up with other DKs.

I've been trying out a hunter deck with devilsaur egg, play dead, terrorscale stalker, cobalt scalebane, bone drake, netherspite historian, etc.

Anyway, I got Drakonid Operative from Bone Drake, which got me Frost Lich Jaina. Had another game against a rogue where he got Deathstalker Rexxar. That one was better, because the game actually went several turns with us both summoning zombeasts.

Not that surprisingly, the deck that already synergized with the DK won that match. But it was still great when he played Rexxar before me and did /greetings, then I played Rexxar the very next turn, and was all like "OH IT IS ON ASSHOLE"
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bng_mmmk posted...

I've been trying out a hunter deck with devilsaur egg, play dead, terrorscale stalker, cobalt scalebane, bone drake, netherspite historian, etc.

just had a silly game with this deck against a dragon priest

I drew both Bone Drakes early. The first one gave me a third Bone Drake. The priest was also running Bone Drake and also got one of my Bone Drakes from Thoughtsteal.

It went down to the wire. He played Onyxia from one Bone Drake, and I answered with Umbra + Bloatbat to clear the whelps. A couple turns later, I played Deathwing from a Bone Drake to set up lethal, and he answered with his own Deathwing from a Bone Drake.

Deathwing has just been so cruel to me lately.
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I'll probably try to make a rogue list at some point since valeera was the DK I got, and I do need to branch out from mage at some point.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

azuarc posted...

Anyone had any experience with Valeera the Hollow? Seems like a really underrated card.

Her effect is very strong. The main issue is that rogue still lacks the control type tools it needs to really make her useful imo. Like rogue is either a tempo or rev up big dudes quickly type and win before turn 9. Combo rogue has been dead since emp rotated out.

Like to give an example. She's really good with like vanish. Lets say you are playing versus a jade deck and play her. The next turn you play vanish+doomsayer. Maybe even better you can play vanish, and if you have arcane giants you can play 2 8/8s and maybe even something else. Imagine having like Vanish into triple giant into Van Cleef.

The problem is that you want to do this on like turn 6 or 7. Not on turn 10 when your opponent has more answers to big stuff or you're almost dead due to lack of neutral healing.
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Well, you actually have the same idea I do, which is to try her with jade. I love jade rogue, but it was unplayable during Un'goro without Unearthed Raptor. Simply not enough jade sources. Rogues got screwed on that end.

I used to run a deck with a pirate theme to buoy my early game, and then after my opponent dealt with that pressure, then I'd play the jades. Under the current implementation, I'm not interested in doing patches, even though swashburglar is great.

I also wasn't planning on using Van Cleef or Shaku (since I don't have them) and I prefer Mistress to ERF. Especially with N'Zoth later, which I see you're not running. So basically, my version -- crudely -- would look like

-1 Hallucination
-1 Patches
-2 Doomsayer
-1 Sap (keep 1)
-2 Earthen Ring Farseer
-1 Edwin VanCleef
-1 Shaku the Collector
-1 Vanish? (definitely keep 1)

+2 Backstab
+2 Eviscerate
+2 Mistress of Mixtures
+1 N'Zoth, the Corruptor
+1 Shadowcaster
+1 Bloodmage Thalnos
+ some combo of SI agent, Loot Hoarder, Stonehill Defender, Journey Below, Mimic Pod, and the poison combo guy

Actually, maybe something like this: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/898183-legend-jade-nzoth-rogue-kft-s41

KokoroAkechi posted...

This is the rogue list im running

...

Not sure what to do to make it better. Almost think it's nearly optimized but jade rogue is just not good.

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So, uh, Prince Malchezaar seems ok in Arena.
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He's a "spin the wheel" kind of thing. When he's great, he's great. When he's bad, he's really bad.
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I was somewhat excited the one time I was offered Malchezaar in arena. I knew he wasn't great, but he was the best choice I had.

Most games I ended up drawing expensive legendaries in my first few turns and died because I had nothing to play.

It was kind of a drag.
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I've had Prince twice in arena, and both times his legendaries won me two or three games by themselves. I only recall one game in either run where I got trash cards from him.
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IIRC, I got decent legendaries from him. I just couldn't play them in time.
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The nice thing about him is you can draft a lot smaller and solidify your curve because he will generally provide most of your lategame on his own.
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azuarc posted...

+ some combo of SI agent, Loot Hoarder, Stonehill Defender, Journey Below, Mimic Pod, and the poison combo guy

If you're gonna run poison combo guy throw a wild pyromancer in there

CybrMonkey posted...

The nice thing about him is you can draft a lot smaller and solidify your curve because he will generally provide most of your lategame on his own.

Assuming you get him early on.
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Another rogue deck ive been working on

### Thief
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Counterfeit Coin
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (1) Hallucination
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Swashburglar
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 1x (2) Sap
# 2x (2) Undercity Huckster
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 1x (3) Fan of Knives
# 1x (3) Mimic Pod
# 1x (3) Shaku, the Collector
# 1x (4) Lilian Voss
# 2x (4) Obsidian Shard
# 1x (5) Ethereal Peddler
# 2x (6) Gadgetzan Auctioneer
# 1x (6) Skulking Geist
# 1x (9) Valeera the Hollow
# 2x (12) Arcane Giant

Probably will drop a sap for a vanish.
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bng_mmmk posted...

Assuming you get him early on.

Sure. If it's late in the draft and you already have your big cards picking him will make you too heavy.
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CybrMonkey posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Assuming you get him early on.

Sure. If it's late in the draft and you already have your big cards picking him will make you too heavy.

Yeah...it all sounds great in theory! It's been so long ago that I don't recall what my deck was like. But of course you can always still end up screwed regardless.
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trdl23 posted...

The more I play against Priest, the more I'm convinced that Potion of Madness was a fucking mistake.

Been feeling this a lot the past couple days. The potential value of that is ridiculous. Like, it's a 1 mana spell that can often trade for the opponent's 2 drop and 3 drop at the same time. And the amount it punishes for playing cheap deathrattle minions is nuts.
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bng_mmmk posted...

trdl23 posted...

The more I play against Priest, the more I'm convinced that Potion of Madness was a fucking mistake.

Been feeling this a lot the past couple days. The potential value of that is ridiculous. Like, it's a 1 mana spell that can often trade for the opponent's 2 drop and 3 drop at the same time. And the amount it punishes for playing cheap deathrattle minions is nuts.

Yeah I'm about ready to get rid of thalnos in my deck because he's just a dead draw against priest.
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Priest is in the dumpster, people complain

Priest gets good cards, people complain about that and not the giant frankenstein monster that is Druid

I don't know man
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priest just isn't fun to play against
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Priest is my favorite class to play against.
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What Koala said, but also, you're taking a remark about a specific card and stretching it to a much higher level commentary about the state of the meta.
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It also has much to do with the fact that I face priest more often than any other class, and it is the strongest counter to my preferred class and style of play. So obviously it grieves me more than druid.
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Priest is everywhere in ranks 20 to...at least 13. I see druids, but only about half as often as priests.

And by far the most common priest build is turn 4 statue, turn 5 statue, turn 6 statue, turn 7 statue...it's impossible to get a foothold against that. Especially when you're afraid to play more than 1 minion prior to turn 4 before you'll just get 2-for-1'ed.

So between PoM and all the ways they cheat out their big minions, playing against priest is just incredibly frustrating and pointless. At least against druid decks, I feel like I'm playing the game.
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VeryInsane posted...

Priest is in the dumpster, people complain

Priest gets good cards, people complain about that and not the giant frankenstein monster that is Druid

I don't know man

could be two different groups of people. the ones who were complaining before are the ones now playing priest!
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The trick is to just play an aggro deck against Priest

Highlander is one ofs and it's not super consistent which is why they all run a lot of cycle now to try and get to their key cards: Their removals, Raza, and Shadowreaper.

Big Priest relies a lot on big drops and if they Barnes on 4 you're in trouble but... it's not that much different from literally any other deck that runs Barnes/Y'Shaarj combo. They just try to highroll a ton, and if they do it looks fantastic and it will be etched in your memory... but at the same time, it isn't infallible. Pirate Warrior has around a 64% winrate against the damn deck, Exodia Mage crushes it and the deck that it tries to beat (Jade Druid) still has a positive winrate against it now that they all are teching in BGH! If you don't get your Barnes on 4, you probably aren't winning. And even if you do, you aren't guaranteed. What if you get Ysera against an Aggro deck? How much would resurrecting Lich King or Statue do in a meta where everyone is running Black Knight or Spellbreaker?
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It's not like I'm over here going "man, I just can't figure out how to beat priest!!"

I play the type of deck I want to play. If I was trying to hit legend I would just go get a list from the internet and roll my face on the keyboard for a while.
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What is the type of deck you want to play then

You were talking about Hunter, I assume? Priest is honestly one of the class's few good matchups.
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For aggro, probably?

Regardless, it doesn't change anything I said about potion of madness.
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I was talking about PoM from an arena perspective too.
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one way to play around potion of madness is simply cut kindly grandmother from your deck. I did this a while ago and never even bothered putting it back in since my win rate went up pretty substantially. the card is individually high quality but it just hasn't worked in the previous meta very well and I'd imagine it doesn't work very well in this meta either. especially at low ranks with so many priests running around.

a cool aspect of this is that players will often ASSUME you're running KG, so against priest especially you might have an advantage where they hold off on playing Potion of Madness, thinking they'll get better value later. and you literally never play the card that they are trying to target with it.
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