Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.

(+) Yeah! (+)

CelesMyUserName posted...

lol

Look at all these pictures of me with black people.
---

https://twitter.com/jaredrizzi/status/897792335198789633

I know Corrik predicts Trump won't run in 2020, but his re-election campaign is already working hard!

(This better not be a rally for pardoning Arpaio)
---

Hillary is going to run in 2020 and most likely win.

You heard it here first.
---

SmartMuffin posted...

lol MAYBE it's time to consider taking down the photo I took with him on FB when I met him in person and bought him a beer?

why? it's not like he wasn't saying idiotic things when you put it up.
---

If Trump weren't planning on running again in 2020, he wouldn't be worried about upsetting his base by... calling out Nazis without pointing at the left too. It's all about making the left out to be the bad guys.
---

Dunno what's worse, the media painting all Trump supporters as nazis or the people dumb enough to buy into it (thankfully most people AREN'T buying into that nonsense). A buddy of mine put this perfectly:

All racism is hate. All hate is bad.

This country has become irrational. Free speech in no longer tolerated, violence is excused and legitimized when it comes from the left, mobs can make executive decisions now on behalf of the rest of the country, and anti-white racism is acceptable but anti black racism isn't. All racism is hate. All hate is bad.

No one hates antisemitism, racism and hatred more than I do. But if the left excuses it only in one direction, there will be racists from the other direction who come out of the woodwork.

Be colorblind. ALL racism is hate. All hate is bad. You know why? Because ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL. God doesn't favor Black racism over white racism. All racism is hate. All hate is bad.

There is no excuse for what I am seeing. The media is obfuscating the issue and so is the left. Not one original thought among them. All racism is hate. All hate is bad.

If you don't agree, get in your knees and pray until you do.

The media and leftists pretending 18 months of Antifa/leftist violence never happened is legitimately dangerous.

NAFTA negotiations will begin today if anyone is interested.
---

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/article167302957.html
---

People outside the media (or right-wing media) pretending there were eighteen months of antifa/leftist violence (and equal amounts of anti-white racism compared to anti-minority racism, apparently) is even more dangerous.
---

https://twitter.com/a_shekh0vts0v/status/897820293032497152

I believe @LordoftheMorons called it
---

Saw what Trump said about "waiting for the facts." At least he's arguing with the logic of a message board poster, instead of a twitter shitposter. Like, what he said made sense, even if his tact was wrong.

I also laughed at him saying that he always waits for the facts before jumping to conclusions.
---

EndOfDiscOne posted...

I also laughed at him saying that he always waits for the facts before jumping to conclusions.

A very credible unnamed source told him that Obama was born outside the US and personally wrote the ISIS charter.
---

Wow, Wang really went out of his way to make people hate him last night, huh?

Different levels of genocide, Jesus Christ.

Sorry DYL.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/346740-texas-bathroom-bill-dies-as-state-house-adjourns-special-session-report

Some good news (since "things not getting worse" counts as good these days).
---

Ulti's friend claimed...

No one hates antisemitism, racism and hatred more than I do.

Fact Check: FALSE
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Ulti's friend claimed...

No one hates antisemitism, racism and hatred more than I do.

Fact Check: FALSE

Oh boy
---

Peace___Frog posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Ulti's friend claimed...

No one hates antisemitism, racism and hatred more than I do.

Fact Check: FALSE

Oh boy

Doesn't it read just like a trump statement too?
---

I am the LEAST RACIST person you will ever know

believe me folks


believe me
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Wanglicious posted...

the underlying premise of rehabilitation is that everyone is compatible.

Not sure I agree

I agree that the underlying premise values all life and forces us to be willing to give everyone the chance and opportunity to reform

I don't think it undermines the concept of rehabilitation to admit that a select small percentage will turn out to be incapable of reform.

All minds are not created equal

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers. the same way everyone deserves due process, or everyone needs to be proven guilty and is inherently innocent, these are principles starting from absolutes because if you break it, you open pandora's box of "well, what about this?"and start getting systems that are only slightly wrong until full scale ones where the core values are gone and only the systems for punishment exist. yeah, guilty people will take advantage of their declared innocence, businesses will abuse due process, and there's evil people who likely cannot be reformed who will take a lighter sentence, but if you start making exceptions those will always start to get worse (e.g., tribunals where guilt is presumed, the government's ignoring of due process, and the concept of the death penalty).

so far the only place that has a system that's full on about rehabilitation has ended up being the happiest place on earth with the best prison system out there. if they're willing to stick to that principle and apply it to yes, even a serial killer, it's worth consideration that maybe starting from the beginning is the better choice. obviously this is a huge change of mindsets from what i'd expect anyone to have and not something that'd change in one argument, but it's something to stick with you over time.

<_< did we finally find an issue i'm more to the left than you here?
---

Look at my African-American over there!
---

Wanglicious posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Wanglicious posted...

the underlying premise of rehabilitation is that everyone is compatible.

Not sure I agree

I agree that the underlying premise values all life and forces us to be willing to give everyone the chance and opportunity to reform

I don't think it undermines the concept of rehabilitation to admit that a select small percentage will turn out to be incapable of reform.

All minds are not created equal

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers. the same way everyone deserves due process, or everyone needs to be proven guilty and is inherently innocent, these are principles starting from absolutes because if you break it, you open pandora's box of "well, what about this?"and start getting systems that are only slightly wrong until full scale ones where the core values are gone and only the systems for punishment exist. yeah, guilty people will take advantage of their declared innocence, businesses will abuse due process, and there's evil people who likely cannot be reformed who will take a lighter sentence, but if you start making exceptions those will always start to get worse (e.g., tribunals where guilt is presumed, the government's ignoring of due process, and the concept of the death penalty).

so far the only place that has a system that's full on about rehabilitation has ended up being the happiest place on earth with the best prison system out there. if they're willing to stick to that principle and apply it to yes, even a serial killer, it's worth consideration that maybe starting from the beginning is the better choice. obviously this is a huge change of mindsets from what i'd expect anyone to have and not something that'd change in one argument, but it's something to stick with you over time.

<_< did we finally find an issue i'm more to the left than you here?

I don't think we're really that far in disagreement? I'm not saying at all that we shouldn't give literally everyone a chance to reform. We absolutely should. I'm just saying that after awhile, a small percentage of people will demonstrate that they are mentally incapable of it.
---

So I guess I would say that even though everyone isn't compatible with rehabilitation, you won't know until you try
---

LtMplusCATS posted...

Wow, Wang really went out of his way to make people hate him last night, huh?

Different levels of genocide, Jesus Christ.

Sorry DYL.

Hitler was the SSJGSSJ of genocide.
---

Wanglicious posted...

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers.

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi
---

redrocket_pub posted...

LtMplusCATS posted...

Wow, Wang really went out of his way to make people hate him last night, huh?

Different levels of genocide, Jesus Christ.

Sorry DYL.

Hitler was the SSJGSSJ of genocide.

And this.......is......to mass murder....even FURTHER BEYOND!

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi

And this is why you'll never have the chance. You've already announced your intention to take no prisoners and to give no quarter. Therefore, surrender is not an option.
---

Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers.

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi

Lol what how can you even think that?
---

When did he say he would take no prisoners?
---

The Mana Sword posted...

https://twitter.com/a_shekh0vts0v/status/897820293032497152

I believe @LordoftheMorons called it

I hope I didn't give them the idea!

We don't have any nazis lurking around here, do we?
---

Corrik posted...

Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers.

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi

Lol what how can you even think that?

I actually agree with you

Science might prove me wrong, but it seems like many serial killers are mentally damaged beyond repair. They don't get why people have a right to life.

Nazis understand the concept of human rights, they just only apply it to Aryans (and Asians I guess). You could probably over time teach some of them that other races are just as human.
---

Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers.

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi

Source: Watched all of Dexter!
---

Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers.

tbh I have a MUCH easier time believing in the possibility of rehabilitating a serial killer than a Nazi

What? Nazis in general would in theory be a lot easier to rehabilitate than a serial killer.
---

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897478270442143744
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897869174323728385
---

Actual news: after exit of a handful of ceos from his council, trump is disbanding it and another.

https://twitter.com/jonlovett/status/897870362741833728

You can't dump me because I am actually the one who dumped you in my mind, I break up with you, not the other way around, ok? I'm not crying https://t.co/HdsR4uHT5v

Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!

---

Dammit lotm
---

Corrik posted...

Lol what how can you even think that?

Serial killers don't necessarily have ideological backing to their actions.


SmartMuffin posted...

And this is why you'll never have the chance. You've already announced your intention to take no prisoners and to give no quarter. Therefore, surrender is not an option.

First of all, I'm not King of the Prison System so what I announce actually means nothing. Second, I didn't announce that. Third, Nazis unconditionally surrendered last time we had to deal with them.
---

Slightly before Trump's tweet:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-ceos-idUSKCN1AW23B

9 of 12 companies apparently voted to disband
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897478270442143744
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897869174323728385

LOLOLOL
---

Kenri posted...

Serial killers don't necessarily have ideological backing to their actions.

That's what makes them HARDER to reform. There's no throughline of warped logic to understand how to subvert it.
---

Tbf assuming TV and movies are correct, nazis probably fall in with other white supremacists in prison, so I can see an argument that they'd be hard to reform.
---

https://twitter.com/VICELAND/status/897203772149166080
---

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Tbf assuming TV and movies are correct, nazis probably fall in with other white supremacists in prison, so I can see an argument that they'd be hard to reform.

Yeah I don't think anyone's saying it's easy

It just that on the scale of hope, I have more for someone who believes at least SOME people are humans who deserve agency versus someone who doesn't.
---

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Tbf assuming TV and movies are correct, nazis probably fall in with other white supremacists in prison, so I can see an argument that they'd be hard to reform.

It won't be easy, just easier than a serial killer.
---

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Tbf assuming TV and movies are correct, nazis probably fall in with other white supremacists in prison, so I can see an argument that they'd be hard to reform.

good luck being an anti-nazi white guy in prison xfd
---

SgtSphynx posted...

https://twitter.com/VICELAND/status/897203772149166080

From a reply


"Sounds like it comes down to a fear that if whites become a minority they'll be treated like they've treated minorities."
---

Peace___Frog posted...

SgtSphynx posted...

https://twitter.com/VICELAND/status/897203772149166080

From a reply


"Sounds like it comes down to a fear that if whites become a minority they'll be treated like they've treated minorities."

I was gonna say something to this effect

It's hilarious to me that they clearly understand how awful it would be to be a minority race in America
---

redrocket_pub posted...

Hitler was the SSJGSSJ of genocide.

you may be joking around here but it's because the holocaust wasn't just genocide or just slave labor that Hitler's able to be in the same sentence of genocidal maniacs with far, far higher death counts in any extended period of time or overall (Stalin, Mao). the idea of killing your own slave labor and finding new ways to do it while fighting a massive war isn't something that makes sense if you're looking for victory. the only way you can stay logically consistent is if you go more evil than that: killing each and every one of them (all 11 million, people always forget about the other 5) was a higher priority than winning world war 2.

yes, that is a worse genocide than those seen in various tribal warfare. at least that evil is internally consistent with growing a nation. this was just evil for the sake of being fucking evil, in spite of yourself.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

That's what makes them HARDER to reform. There's no throughline of warped logic to understand how to subvert it.

Right, but it also means that they haven't mentally committed themselves to rejecting facts and logic. Take Richard Spencer -- dude has, like, an MA. You really think he hasn't heard every single argument against Nazism already? What are you gonna tell the guy to convince him he's been wrong about everything?

I mean, it happens, there are stories of it, but I don't have a lot of faith in it working at an institutional level that isn't really concerned with rehabilitation at all anyway.

I guess if the serial killer has their own ideological backing of "no humans deserve life" or whatever then it'll be the same or harder. But if it's "I killed three people for reasons A, B, and C" then I think it's a lot easier to address that situation and find potential for rehabilitation there.

...But unless either of us has actual stats it's just intuition. I'm not claiming I have a bunch of evidence to support my feelings here.
---

https://twitter.com/HeyNickMurphy/status/897630431679582208
---

If anyone doesn't believe in white privilege, watch that video. White Supremacist dude basically lays it out on a platter without necessarily realizing it.
---