Board 8 > Mercenaries Draft Week 14 Wartime: The Dark Side of the Moon

(+) Yeah! (+)

The question was already answered. What I didn't answer was a notion of mistaken play a player had. I'm not in the business of playing the game for my players, they're supposed to be the ones who make smart plays.
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Kirby, KOS-MOS Jr., Rikku and Yu Narukami vs. Cloud, Booker and Ryu3.

Terrains: Sanubia Desert (3 GP) vs. Tower of Zot (NO BID). Match takes place in Sanubia Desert.
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Well, you really need to say something more than "yes" there I feel for clarity I think.

But I think Boko was kinda not doing his job in clarifying what you were saying "yes" to either, as he was clearly trying to spoonfeed you an interpretation so he sorta just interpreted the yes in the most favorable way.

Basically I feel like he was probably grating on you trying to ask for "rulings" and you were being intentionally obtuse-- not a good look for either side but yeah, can't feel too bad about Boko's predicament either.
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Lopen posted...

Well, you really need to say something more than "yes" there I feel for clarity I think.

But I think Boko was kinda not doing his job in clarifying what you were saying "yes" to either, as he was clearly trying to spoonfeed you an interpretation so he sorta just interpreted the yes in the most favorable way.

Basically I feel like he was probably grating on you trying to ask for "rulings" and you were being intentionally obtuse-- not a good look for either side but yeah, can't feel too bad about Boko's predicament either.

As I pointed out to him...

Kanzaris - Today at 5:04 PM
Boko
When you ask rules questions
it's your job, as a player, to be specific about what it is you want to know
Do not use vague wording, do not get general. You know this too.
Look at the difference between the first question re: morrigan, and the terra thing

Kanzaris - Today at 5:05 PM
The former is something I am cleared to answer because it's not playing the game for you.
The latter I'm not, because I am not supposed to pilot your team.
As far as the admins are concerned, it's OK if you get destroyed by not noticing an ability
Our job isn't to point that shit out.
It's similarly OK to us if a player overthinks and fucks up.

This is fundamentally why I don't feel a lot of sympathy for Boko here. You don't ask a question for shiggles in this kind of situation with the clock running out. You ask it because it has a purpose.
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By the way, the admins in M4 made the decision that byes are classified as a win when ed beat JC in the elimination week.

So yeah

I literally would have won this week.
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Hell in fucking fact:

In the event of a team being disbanded, their spot will be rolled as normal but it will be considered a bye for whoever declares on it. They will receive +1 infra instead of the normal +3.

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greengravy294 posted...

By the way, the admins in M4 made the decision that byes are classified as a win when ed beat JC in the elimination week.

So yeah

I literally would have won this week.

No we didn't. That's you making a leap in logic. That was us not honoring a spite disband in an elimination match, and using the loophole of JC bolding quit first to do so.
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Well whatever. You gain an infra. I don't see this being particularly negative. Neutral, maybe, but there was obviously not enough foresight to classify whether or not a bye is a win or not in a random caveat in a random page on the wiki.

But you know my entire strategy hinged on fishing out a merc with Terra who needs a win, so yeah, the only time a classification for a 'bye' is needed there. Just how it goes.

Because surprise I literally faceroll Boko this week if I have Wrex or Squall this week and remove Nilin because he can't do shit without custom combos and everything would essentially random out (Party randomizes the removals post-rosters and Dizzy would be flat out randomized).
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Yeah I get it you want to make Terra more powerful for no reason given on the merc
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But yeah like there's been plenty of fairly questionable decisions where Kanz has had to come up with a genuine ruling because they never actually occurred in the original game in regards to core mechanics. Being told I couldn't abstain from spending exp is by far the most baffling thing I've ever been told. A bye not being coded as a win is also very stupid, because in the rules it is a positive event.

Like if I had the foresight to think "oh, getting +1 infra isn't a win, better sand bag week 2 vs. Johnbobb" then I guess I would have and end up just beating him week 3 or something and not spend abilities to shut him down there. Result basically would be the same as coding the bye week as a win: I'd change the tier on Boko, and faceroll.
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A bye has never been coded as a win and if you were paying any attention to M4 or the ruleset you'd have known that. Like, "but it will be considered a bye" should be a hint, with the but, that a bye is not actually counted as a win.

I agree the EXP ruling was dumb though
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Lopen posted...

Well, you really need to say something more than "yes" there I feel for clarity I think.

But I think Boko was kinda not doing his job in clarifying what you were saying "yes" to either, as he was clearly trying to spoonfeed you an interpretation so he sorta just interpreted the yes in the most favorable way.

Basically I feel like he was probably grating on you trying to ask for "rulings" and you were being intentionally obtuse-- not a good look for either side but yeah, can't feel too bad about Boko's predicament either.

I can't understand how he is saying he did not answer the question? If he is asking a question about if a play is viable, that is a valid question? He didn't ask what do you think I should do.

That said, you didn't even clarify what you were saying yes to and in effect were being devious when you out it in conjunction with the I purposely only answered the last part. Because no you didn't ever say "yes specifically to the last part".

That is tsk tsk...
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considering you win the last time you fought i dont think its too much to say 'oh yeah a bye week is coded as a win'

but yes i know you're going to be a pedant and say WELL I NEVER ACTUALLY WROTE IT IN THE RULES SO ITS ????????? SORRY so kinda whatever i dont care enough to die on this hill
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i dunno ive done bowling leagues against vacants and they were considered a bye and you won

i really dont see this logic being too much a leap to think that i would be able to use terra's ability much like how i would have been able to if i sandbagged vs. johnbobb week 2 of our set.
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What the rules say is a bye and a win do different things

So on what basis would you consider them the same, exactly. Because you gained infra? Is a match where the T-800 Tyrant wins the match and gives both players an infra a win too?
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tell me exactly how many abilities hinge on simply a 'win' and not against a team in specific during results.

the answer is literally only terra's.
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In pool a bye awards you points but it does not give you a win in your record. Byes in the NFL, NHL, and etc major sports do not also.

I think you are somewhat confusing a no contest / forfeit with a bye.
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There are a few that can in situations not interact with the enemy team. Soma and Bass immediately come to mind. Not that it's terribly relevant.
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greengravy294 posted...

tell me exactly how many abilities hinge on simply a 'win' and not against a team in specific during results.

the answer is literally only terra's.

Little Mac's. Works on loss and not win but same exact principle. Should byes count as quantum winlosses if you have Mac AND Terra on deck because both states benefit you?
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yeah maybe but i put like zero thought into the game for 2 weeks thinking i'd just beat boko by default and then surprise it doesnt work with 2 hours left into results

this game sucks btw
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uh i mean you're gaining an infra from a bye, to call this a loss in any sense of anything, ever is just plain retarded but i mean you're the dude that decided you cant abstain from using exp lOLO
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greengravy294 posted...

uh i mean you're gaining an infra from a bye, to call this a loss in any sense of anything, ever is just plain retarded but i mean you're the dude that decided you cant abstain from using exp lOLO

...No? Byes don't give infra.

- If a team goes 2-0, they get a week of recharge/etc for free on the third week.
- No poaching, but wins still count and give infra.

That's all. Byes give INCOME, not INFRA. Did you get that confused?
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greengravy294 posted...

Hell in fucking fact:

In the event of a team being disbanded, their spot will be rolled as normal but it will be considered a bye for whoever declares on it. They will receive +1 infra instead of the normal +3.

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greengravy294 posted...

this game sucks btw

tagline
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You can't simultaneously say you weren't thinking about the game and turn around and say people are wrong

The only reason you didn't think you were wrong is because you didn't think about it. Byes in pro sports are a pretty excellent counterpoint to what you're claiming. As is the fact that they're explicitly defined as something distinct from a win or loss.

Sometimes you being wrong is not in fact a result of pedantry. It's just you being wrong.
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Yes, that's in the event of a disbandment. Victory through 2-0ing in a series doesn't give extra infra. Do I have to go dredge up standings from M4 to prove this?
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Also post game byes in the 2-0s didn't give infra btw. They gave you 10 EXP to put you on par with a 2-1, but that was it. So yeah that further buries your argument to begin with.
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I have this weird feeling that a team that went 2-0 probably didn't get extra infra because Lopen forgot, but I'm sure they got 10 exp...(for a win)
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Er they got 5 EXP

I'm just confused because yeah I've been on 10 EXP for a loss mode so long in this game
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really? i actually thought they got 10 exp

if thats true then my memory is incorrect and i am wrong (unlike lopen, who refuses to admit he can be wrong, i'm not that big of a nerd to say i can be wrong)
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Lopen posted...

A bye has never been coded as a win and if you were paying any attention to M4 or the ruleset you'd have known that. Like, "but it will be considered a bye" should be a hint, with the but, that a bye is not actually counted as a win.

I agree the EXP ruling was dumb though

seconded on both points
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greengravy294 posted...

really? i actually thought they got 10 exp

if thats true then my memory is incorrect and i am wrong (unlike lopen, who refuses to admit he can be wrong, i'm not that big of a nerd to say i can be wrong)

Nerds are usually beta as fuck and cave to aggressive or stern behavior, so saying you are wrong whether you feel you are wrong or not is like exactly what a nerd would do! =P
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greengravy294 posted...

really? i actually thought they got 10 exp

if thats true then my memory is incorrect and i am wrong (unlike lopen, who refuses to admit he can be wrong, i'm not that big of a nerd to say i can be wrong)

They got 5 EXP, same as you would've got on a 2-1 victory (10-10-5). Byes in the playoffs were meant to exactly replicate losses, minus having to spend abilities or money that week.
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I think I've admitted I'm wrong like... two or three whole times in this game! Considering how seldom I am wrong that's a pretty high number!
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Missed a little thing. Proper clarification of what occurs:

Morrigan possesses Ellie. Lightning doesn't execute her. She then tries to possess Grigori and this causes the match to be FROZEN one last time.

THIS is maximum mercs. PS seriously starting to think a daily question limit might be beneficial for players at this point, it might prevent some self-ownages
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George Washington's coming hooooooome
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I can't wait to explain why I disagree with this ruling too.
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Lopen posted...

I can't wait to explain why I disagree with this ruling too.

The AP limit on questions or the one I'm waiting on Trdl for
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

She then tries to possess Grigori

huh
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The one you're waiting for, because I have a feeling I know what the ruling is

But we'll see when the ruling actually occurs if you guys get it wrong
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Lolmercs to the max

This is why the game is much better as a spectator
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Eddv posted...

Lolmercs to the max

This is why the game is much better as a spectator

Game sucks completely lol
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WE HAVE COME TO TERMS.

Lightning tries to possess Grigori and use Slave Crown. Terra intercepts this, redirecting the entire ability, including the ability copyage. Dizzy then kidnaps a bunch of people successfully (except Ellie, who is possessed).

WE'RE DONE

Send those bids dudes.
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Okay I think I actually agree with that one.
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alright

as long as boko agrees to this, i am willing to end pool 2 in a formal tie
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It's a draw!

This is the most mercs thing we could do
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alright folks, pool 2 is over. it's been fun.
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Literally the most Mercs outcome and I love it.
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I want my fight topics so I will not be offering Tiro a draw. He will have to bow out if he wants this to end.
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i feel like the draw is fairly good for a conclusion because of a myriad of really dumb stuff that occurred that lead to this point
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