Board 8 > Mercenaries Draft Week 14 Wartime: The Dark Side of the Moon

(+) Yeah! (+)

As in the interception trigger never actually formally flips. Ellie switches sides, Terra immune. Which means the kidnap ability is what Terra interepts. Pretty sure this is right.

Anyway gotta work.
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gravy, how is terra immune to possessions? I do not see a possession immune part on her writeup.

Sorey sub lord passive.

Anyway according to the interception rules reference page, if someone who could intercept an ability is hit by it, they won't intercept. This supercedes that Terra would intercept all iterations of the ability I believe, which is a caveat only available to Terra's trigger.

- If an effect hits a narrowed range of targets, it will succeed on the intercepting mercenary as though they were the original target mercenary.
- If an effect hits multiple mercenaries at the same time, but not the intercepting mercenary, the mercenary may choose which mercenary to intercept the effect for.
- However, if both the intercepting mercenary and the original mercenary are hit by the same effect, the intercepting mercenary will not attempt to intercept the effect

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Tell me if I am going crazy Zeeks

Cuz I'm pretty sure that I am right.


Now if Terra WASN'T targeted initially she would intercept.
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What do you mean by "reverted"? If you mean something like Unacceptable, then that's most certainly a failure to resolve fully. Anything that has "X% chance to fail" and hits that X% is also liable to get Lightning'd.

In this case, though, the target was legal, and the ability resolved. It just did nothing. If the ability did something in addition to the possession (such as boosting/lowering parameters) those would still apply.
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Doesn't matter I can argue that later. I have a far more pressing smoking gun.
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I don't see anything wrong with what you said there, gravy, that looks like a valid reading of the rules to me, the only confusion in ruling would be the interaction between guilty conscience and power of purification if terra had left the field of play any time after being told she was a sub-lord.

Terra no sells the possession, so she's still an available target and so on. If I'm right, Ellie is possessed, Terra doesn't intercept as she was targeted as well and is immune to it.

The only conflicting wording is that Terra intercepts ALL iterations of the ability. In reference to Dizzy and her kidnap, a typical interception would only allow her to specify who she would be kidnapped for. However since she takes the hit for EVERYONE, that typical clause is superceded by Terra's ability.

However it stands that Terra's interception will still function under normal circumstances. If she were not to be targeted by Morrigan and say Dante/Shulk were, she would intercept as Boko intended. But since she was specified, she would let the ability go by.
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I think the reason Terra intercepts is because she says your team or something. Idk, I specifically asked about Lightning trigger and Terra trigger (at length) to ensure it worked as I expected and was told it did.

We can wait for Kanzaris tho
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Love ability clashes
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Terra says she will automatically intercept the first removal that she can intercept, but she can't intercept abilities that target herself and someone else. That's a stone cold rule in the interception reference page. There was no removal to tank.
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Not even an ability clash. The conditions for interception wasn't met. If Terra wasn't targeted she would have met interception criteria.
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Looks like Kanzaris didn't read the Interception Effect Rules Reference

Amateur move
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okay so based on my five-minute skim of this topic

The first time per week an enemy merc fails their ability in any way, qualified as the ability not resolving to its successful conclusion after declaration, Lightning will put them out of their misery and send them on their way with a hearty KO'ing.

it doesn't just say "conclusion," it says "successful conclusion"

the ability hit a legal target and it resolved to its conclusion, but it was not a "successful" conclusion (the target was immune, the ability did nothing). so Lightning should trigger. unless I'm missing something, which is possible.

BUT it sounds like Boko was relying on a contrary ruling when he did his abilities, so w/e
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Love admin tomfoolery then
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Agreed with Drak there btw. I was told that unacceptable reverting an ability to not occurring wasn't a successful conclusion despite it never occuring.
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Hell I was told if Ellie whiffed on all ad libs she'd be considered to be KO by lightning. So......
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Actually maybe that was lopen but iirc kanz said something like that the last time I lost my shit about lightning
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greengravy294 posted...

Hell I was told if Ellie whiffed on all ad libs she'd be considered to be KO by lightning. So......

Kanz told me Ellie wouldn't be KOd in this case, actually.

Fwiw, I specifically asked regarding this trigger and the targeting and was told it works. Kanzaris told me he even referenced the interception rules, too.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me who I have to target, I just want her to trigger so who I target doesn't matter it's not like I need to have it target Terra pre-trigger for any of this to work after the fact. I just did as I was told would work.
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I honestly knew this would happen.

Boko's the type of guy who gets rulings not really because he's actually confused about how something works, but because he wants to trick the admins into letting him do something that the rules shouldn't allow by asking a bunch of dumb questions.

A contrast from a guy like say FFD who gets rulings (and myself at the current moment due to a few stupid rulings in this game) about every minute thing, and already knows the answer to 90% of them, but is just getting it officially stated to him so there's not some BS later.

Combine the former with a rookie admin and it's gonna go sour someday.
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Yeah I always felt bad for asking so many questions, but in that like 5% case I misread something or things didn't work they way I thought I wanted to be 100% sure (especially since a lot of things can be counterintuitive).

Plus yeah, it was always good to have a record of things to point back to.
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Yeah no I get it. I didn't get it before, but now having played in this game, I totally get it.
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Now that being said game precedent has been that if someone gets a poor ruling due to not reading the wiki right, like I got due to "Wrex." not disabling Session Skills, that the rules written on the wiki win out.

So I think the intercept should fail.

But really who knows what the result would've been if I hadn't said "oh you're right I guess that's my bad for not reading the merc" and raised a fuss about it.
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I have a feeling Boko actually didn't know the exact wording on how intercept actually works.


In fact I didnt even really know -- it only sounded somewhat familiar because I looked up how intercepts worked because I drafted one.
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I did know, because it's come up for me before with Lightning. That's why I made sure to ask!
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I mean it sucks Boko self owned but I am fairly confident Beast Lightning should trigger from Terra being immune so I don't feel too bad since I was banking on it partially >_>
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It sucks yeah but good thing I made sure beforehand so hopefully I didn't self own
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I mean Kanz is going to defend himself by citing Terra and her write up but it doesn't actually change how interception works.
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I'm not sure why Boko didn't just kidnap with Tira to set Terra off-- oh it's on cooldown because she hates him that's right.
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Well guess you should have read how interception works because it's actually pretty easy to not fuck up here.
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That being said I AM not sure why Boko didn't just possess Ellie. The forking seems completely superfluous here.
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Lopen posted...

I'm not sure why Boko didn't just kidnap with Tira to set Terra off-- oh it's on cooldown because she hates him that's right.

Lmfao
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It's only funny because I was actually pondering that unironically, then I flipped back to the first page and yeap it's on CD sure enough.
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Lopen posted...

I honestly knew this would happen.

Boko's the type of guy who gets rulings not really because he's actually confused about how something works, but because he wants to trick the admins into letting him do something that the rules shouldn't allow by asking a bunch of dumb questions.

A contrast from a guy like say FFD who gets rulings (and myself at the current moment due to a few stupid rulings in this game) about every minute thing, and already knows the answer to 90% of them, but is just getting it officially stated to him so there's not some BS later.

Combine the former with a rookie admin and it's gonna go sour someday.

IMO it went sour with the Serra ruling and now were just passengers on this train
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Well if I had my way Clone Lightning would be KOing Morrigan, which is a 50% chance that Mewtwo isn't made her assist

But I guess "successful conclusion" is vague enough that the panel of 2 like to change their mind on what is considered a successful conclusion. Cuz as far as I am concerned, Agnes making an ability never happen would totally be a successful conclusion since it was retconned to never happening.
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greengravy294 posted...

Well if I had my way Clone Lightning would be KOing Morrigan, which is a 50% chance that Mewtwo isn't made her assist

But I guess "successful conclusion" is vague enough that the panel of 2 like to change their mind on what is considered a successful conclusion. Cuz as far as I am concerned, Agnes making an ability never happen would totally be a successful conclusion since it was retconned to never happening.

Fwiw, I thought things like Terra would trigger Lightning, too. Kanz has consistently told me the opposite, though. Shrug
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Amusingly Boko's Lightning would KO Morrigan too
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Hey I haven't been following this topic did anyone rage quit yet
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As soon as Kanzaris defends his bone headed logic in not reading the interception rules reference page I will. Give it a few hours
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I'm just glad my matches are lot less complicated

You guys have too many abilities.
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Gravy is correct. Terra can't intercept an ability that already targets her. Sorry boko.
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(I was asked one rules question about Interception effects, BTW - it was whether Morrigan would pop with her own ability if she targeted villains or neutrals and got redirected to Terra. My answer was 'yes'.)
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And this is what Boko asked that I think he misconstrued.

boko - Today at 12:16 AM
okay
here's something i may have overlooked
will morrigan try to intercept discord parade on lightning? i'm asking to double check but i'm thinkin no since morrigan is already being targeted by the ability
like when ellie used ad lib

Kanzaris - Today at 12:19 AM
No
can't intercept if you're targeted

boko - Today at 12:19 AM
but Terra still can
because of weird woring, right
yeah cuz she intercpts anything to hit her team

Kanzaris - Today at 12:20 AM
yes

I was responding to the last line of his, and studiously avoided responding to the first. Boko has this habit of asking 'pilot the team for me' questions. That is not what my job as an admin is. My job is to answer rule questions, pure and simple, which I did right there. Literally the first thing said is 'you can't intercept if you're targeted'. The moral of this story is very simple: "Ask only what you need to ask, don't try to get greedy, make the fucking obvious plays because they fucking work, jesus christ". This was avoidable just by not targeting Terra.
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I still don't get why Terra was targeted to begin with Did he just not want Morrigan to get KOed or something? Why wouldn't just targeting two non-Terras work in that case?
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Lopen posted...

I still don't get why Terra was targeted to begin with Did he just not want Morrigan to get KOed or something? Why wouldn't just targeting two non-Terras work in that case?

I legitimately don't get it either. The question Boko asked that called for a freeze was, 'if Terra intercepts a possession (which she's immune to due to Sorey), can she still be affected?'. Me and Trdl conferred for a while and agreed that the answer was yes due to the shoddy wording of her upgrade. Had he not targeted her, she would've eaten Morrigan's possession and gone rogue as intended.
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If it makes you feel any better, Boko, if byes were counted as a win (dont know why they aren't) I would have won anyway.
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Also I don't feel bad at all after all the creative ways the admins tried to screw with my team by not allowing me to pass on using exp and something else that escapes my immediate memory.
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This whole situation is lol mercs to the max.


Now boko just needs to win anyway to really seal this one for the lolmercs hall of fame
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oh yeah that mei ling situation was A+ too
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

And this is what Boko asked that I think he misconstrued.

boko - Today at 12:16 AM
okay
here's something i may have overlooked
will morrigan try to intercept discord parade on lightning? i'm asking to double check but i'm thinkin no since morrigan is already being targeted by the ability
like when ellie used ad lib

Kanzaris - Today at 12:19 AM
No
can't intercept if you're targeted

boko - Today at 12:19 AM
but Terra still can
because of weird woring, right
yeah cuz she intercpts anything to hit her team

Kanzaris - Today at 12:20 AM
yes

I was responding to the last line of his, and studiously avoided responding to the first. Boko has this habit of asking 'pilot the team for me' questions. That is not what my job as an admin is. My job is to answer rule questions, pure and simple, which I did right there. Literally the first thing said is 'you can't intercept if you're targeted'. The moral of this story is very simple: "Ask only what you need to ask, don't try to get greedy, make the fucking obvious plays because they fucking work, jesus christ". This was avoidable just by not targeting Terra.

You purposely did not answer a question a player had about abilities? Is that what you just said?
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