Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - You fucking idiot. (SPOILER)

(+) Yeah! (+)

captured, sure. dead, I dunno.

Jaime's fate is pretty clearly tied to Cersei.
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xp1337 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

I am passionate about this because Jaime is my favorite character by miles. His chapters are my favorite in the books. His actor is my favorite on the show. He's just phenomenal all around.

That's a weird position because his book character arc was thrown away seasons ago!

Has it? It got very badly sidetracked in S5, but it's certainly going in the same direction and it founds its way again in S6. And I'd argue that if it goes to completion, it could very well be better. Slower-playing, more tortured, and less falling out of love with Cersei due to jealousy, more realizing she's a monster despite still loving her.
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I mean, yes. Narratively you expect Jaime to be invincible because his arc "has" to end with Cersei somehow. I get that.

but just because all signs point that way doesn't mean it has to happen. things don't always go neatly because they're "supposed" to

sometimes **** happens

man i was so much happier a few hours ago before i learned everything i thought i watched was a lie and it all came crumbling down around me
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The tension between Jaime's conflicting vows in the book is way more interesting/better, IMO. Also makes Brienne a much better character for her part in it.

But I didn't mean to start a book debate here, just found it weird.
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The real prince that was promised is Hot Pie. He's gonna plunge a knife into his Nyssa Nyssa of pies, and make a glorious wedding cake for The Night King's and Euron's gay marriage.
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Arya vs Brienne was the highlight of the episode for me.
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I dunno, Jaime was still defending Cersei as recently as last episode, and to a woman he was about to kill and had no reason to lie to. Is it crazy to think he might not even change sides anymore?
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Did you all forget who is writing the story? If he doesn't die then it's BS.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Menji posted...

Arya vs Brienne was the highlight of the episode for me.

Same.

Arya could literally beat The Mountain in a fight. Think of the insanity of this.

Well Brienne isn't necessarily stronger than the Hound! She fought the Hound as he was almost dying from some infection and still didn't dominate him.

Also it is unclear if the Hound was straight up stronger than the Mountain.

I mean it is possible because the Mountain got straight up demolished by Oberyn so he wasn't necessarily the best fighter in Westeros.
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Also now that he's a zombie he's probably harder to defeat, especially given Arya's fighting style. Presumably he can tank most conventionally fatal wounds and is immune to pain now. Arya uses lighter weapons, so it'd be trickier for her to really deal a finishing blow in all likelihood. OTOH Arya can probably just dodge all day.

but there's no reason for arya and zombie gregor to be within a hundred miles of each other now so eh who cares
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calling Arya stronger than the mountain is so ridiculous that it could only happen on a board where we had the MPFC Contests lmao
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Logicblade posted...

The real prince that was promised is Hot Pie. He's gonna plunge a knife into his Nyssa Nyssa of pies, and make a glorious wedding cake for The Night King's and Euron's gay marriage.

I'd pay good money to see this
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Arya might be a better technical fighter, but if the mountain kicks her in the ribs like Brienne did, she's dead.
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tag
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I wish I hadn't known there was some Field of Fire battle coming up. Part of why Hardhome was so amazing is I had no clue it was happening AND THEN SUDDENLY THERE'S WHITEWALKERS OH FUCK.

Though in that case I also could've done without the "she's not here" line, since that made it super obvious what was about to happen.
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Also I don't remember what the context was for "chaos is a ladder", so someone please remind me.
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Chaos Is a Ladder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4

one of the best scenes in the show!
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Hollllyyy shiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt


My heart was pounding from start to finish.
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Arya versus Brienne and Davos' "I noticed you staring at her good heart" were both great. Davos is so good. I'm sure he see what uniting the two sides can achieve.

The inevitability of Jon x Daenerys is three steps closer. I'm hyped for the sex that'll break the internet.
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You heard Jon. He's got no time for that.

Dany has to win his heart by flaming some white walkers. That'll get his direwolf's attention. And I don't mean Ghost.
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Don't really understand why Arya came back to Winterfell but okay.

Poor Meera. You'd think Bran at least would consider giving her a true reward or something. That girl has been through so much just for you you piece of shit.

Seeing every teeny tiny piece of shit leave Littlefinger's bowels when Bran said "Chaos is a ladder" was amazing.

Don't know what to think of prehistoric carving cave. On one hand, it seems really dumb, on the other hand, I'd love to hear a Rhaegar-related story to it in Winds or Dream.

Somewhat frustrated that Arya can easily match Brienne, someone who could go toe to toe with whole Jaime Lannister and the Hound. True, they weren't at their best then but lesser (wo)men would still have died there.

ruh roh Theon and Jon

That final battle was amazing. Kind of expected that Drogon would burn the gold, thus putting Cersei back in a bad position, but oh well.

I want Jon to casually mention to Dany that he met a Targaryen before her.

Could Arya kill Littlefinger (once she finds out his involvement in Jon Arryn's death etc) faced up as Catelyn? It would be a Lady Stoneheart call-out and a cruel way for Baelish to die.

SeabassDebeste posted...

xp1337 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

I am passionate about this because Jaime is my favorite character by miles. His chapters are my favorite in the books. His actor is my favorite on the show. He's just phenomenal all around.

That's a weird position because his book character arc was thrown away seasons ago!

Has it? It got very badly sidetracked in S5, but it's certainly going in the same direction and it founds its way again in S6. And I'd argue that if it goes to completion, it could very well be better. Slower-playing, more tortured, and less falling out of love with Cersei due to jealousy, more realizing she's a monster despite still loving her.

I think Jaime's book arc is completely different from his show arc. Jaime has already abandoned Cersei in the books; she burns her letter begging for help against the High Septon, showcasing that he has already fallen out of love or is no longer interested in her. Show Jaime would have instantly ridden off to King's Landing if he had received a letter like that.
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Yeah, I felt bad for Meera. Like "lol girl, you don't matter anymore. Go die offscreen".


And the cave carvings were dumb. Very inorganic way to convince Dany about the White Walkers.
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I guess I don't know when Bronn became a hero willing to take risks like shooting an unproven new weapon at a fucking dragon, or nearly getting torched by the aforementioned dragon to save someone else. Someone who, in this very episode, he complained wasn't paying him enough.

When he ran off to get the ballista, I expected him to bail or try to switch sides somehow. Or even just this was the time his luck finally ran out.

I expect he'll be the first to switch sides when they're captured next episode.
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^agree. I can maybe see Bronn thinking that if he manages to kill Drogon, it'll be safer than fleeing, but I don't think it makes sense for his character to save Jaime at the end.

I also feel like Bran shouldn't be so distant; it made sense for Brynden, who was stuck in a cave all that time. Bran is in his ancestral home, surrounded by his two sisters (and maybe his half-brother/nephew?). There are things that are tying him to being Bran.

The Stark children are so ungrateful. Arya is kept alive by the Hound all that time and she leaves him to die, Jon and Sansa are saved by Littlefinger and they treat him like shit, and the only reason Bran has his powers and is still alive is because the Reed siblings helped him and he's just like "thnx now gtfo".
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RyoCaliente posted...

Kind of expected that Drogon would burn the gold, thus putting Cersei back in a bad position, but oh well.

The gold all made it to King's Landing.

Dany burned all the food that she was complaining about not having.
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Well yes, I mean, the only thing I knew about the leak was that there was going to be a battle with Drogon. So I expected he would burn the gold, before Randyll Tarly said that.
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Honestly, I prefer Meera leaving and never being seen in the show again opposed to her remaining in Winterfell and getting killed when the white walkers reach it.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion let's Jamie escape as repayment for letting him escape.
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Pokalicious posted...

So is Tyrion like a double agent or something? Does he want Jaime to live? Is there something I'm missing?

Remember that, in the show, Jaime never told Tyrion that he lied to Tyrion about the only woman who had ever loved him, so Tyrion still likes Jaime.

Arya's battle against Brienne really bothered me, if only because she shouldn't have been able to fight things to a draw once Brienne got serious. She was using force against force, and paid for it by having her sword knocked out of her hand, but she still got the draw... Either this training is an opportunity for Arya to grow, or it's an opportunity to prove that Arya's badass. She needs the former, I think, but it felt like the latter.

Bronn's recommendation for Jaime to flee is dumb. If their commander leaves the battlefield, there's no way the rank-and-file hold the line. Also: Why wasn't someone on the ballista at the start of the battle? Shouldn't that basically be someone's job? They clearly expected to have to fight dragons, if they brought the damn thing with them.

Children of the forest scene was hype. Bran scenes were hype. 9.5/10 overall, I'd say. STOP BEING GOOD GoT I WANT TO HATE YOU.

Maria posted...

also a hard LMAO at dany complaining that she was running out of food and then immediately going out and burning wagons full of food

...Lol. Did not think of that. That's... pretty stupid.

Re: Jaime surviving: It is entirely possible to swim while wearing plate armor; the idea that you can't is just a myth. Now, it's entirely possible Jaime doesn't know how to swim, but he also wasn't wearing super heavy armor so he really should be fine.

Ryo posted...

Jon and Sansa are saved by Littlefinger and they treat him like shit

to be fair.

he's kind of a shit.
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I wanted Arya to offhand tell Sansa she killed Meryn Trant. He was the one who beat her on Joffrey's orders, right?
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Absolutely, but he saved them and has more men than they do. I think if Littlefinger wanted to he could (have) take(n) control over Winterfell when he beat the Boltons.
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dowolf posted...

Bronn's recommendation for Jaime to flee is dumb. If their commander leaves the battlefield, there's no way the rank-and-file hold the line. Also: Why wasn't someone on the ballista at the start of the battle? Shouldn't that basically be someone's job? They clearly expected to have to fight dragons, if they brought the damn thing with them

I'm surprised they didn't have a scout or anything. Especially since they took a break in a terrible location where they could be attacked from any side.
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Silly Menji. Characters are only allowed to be good at war when it's their turn to win the battle. Otherwise, you have to fall for your enemy's plots.

It's called being polite.
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Great episode!

Also, Dany will probably still get enough food out of this raid, as there were a lot of straggling carts & riders who needed a good flogging!
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Menji posted...

I'm surprised they didn't have a scout or anything. Especially since they took a break in a terrible location where they could be attacked from any side.

I'm surprised that you're surprised! Nearly every battle since Battle of the Bastards has had an outsized element of surprise to it. In fact literally last episode, the entire 30,000-man Lannister-Tarly coalition mobilized from the Westerlands into the Reach into its very capital, spanning hundreds and hundreds of miles, catching the best supplied family of Westeros entirely off guard!

Maria

so did anyone else feel like the director wanted us to root for bronn and jaime there? they were clearly in the underdog position. on top of that tyrion and jaime both have that moment where they are surveying all of the destruction like 'why in the hell does this need to happen.' really made dany seem like she needed to be shot down.

maybe my own personal preferences are clouding my judgement here since I'm a huge lannister mark and targaryen hater, though.

I think we're supposed to be horrified by Dany's actions, including using the dragon on both the Westerland-Reach forces *and* the food train strike. Dany has decided to fight a war of fire and blood (and good lord did we see what that really meant - graphically). Laying waste to her enemies to defeat the army is more urgent to her than bolstering her own.

Both this battle and Battle of the Bastards showcased just how ugly and destructive war was, even if you're on the 'right' side like Jon was - it's not like that was any less dehumanizing - but the dragon made this one entirely unfair, adding that much more to it.
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I'm pretty good about suspending disbelief so I let myself be surprised!
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So some thoughts on the episode other than THAT BATTLE.

* Maisie Williams used to be arguably the show's best actor. It's almost embarrassing to watch her now. Part of it might be that Arya is no longer a ten- or twelve-year-old girl and is thus that much less adorable, but she doesn't seem to have the same 'pluck' (is that a sexist term? whatever) that she did as a kid. I really hope the material for her improves - the sparring with Brienne was... augh.

* Awkward dialogue in Winterfell all around. The Stark kids' reunion is... it hasn't been exactly a hotbed of great interactions, though I appreciated Arya mentioning that most of her list was dead already.

* Bronn's epic cackle when Dickon says his name is one of the best moments of the episode.

* Bronn talking about dead people shitting themselves feels very much like a callback to Robert talking about first kills with Jaime and Barristan in S1. Anyone feel the same? And Robert says his first kill was a Tarly!

* Jon and Dany's scene this episode is amazing. Maybe the awkwardness at the beginning of 7x03 was intentional, but I think that that scene also just had some issues with direction. (The ultra-closeups on Dany's face are augh.) But here the sparks (literally) are flying good. Bold move to lead a dragon queen into a cave on only the third date, and to take her by the hand. And I love the carvings, too.

* Missandei probably can't go in because she's too tall. (Sorry, I'm just gonna comment on Jon's height a LOT. It's kind of weird that Sansa towers over him, though she's freakishly tall.)

* Davos is such a bro of a wingman. 'I noticed you staring at her good heart.' But also, his opinion on a land with no marriage: 'That sounds... liberating.' And of course, he learned the most important Stannis lessons of all: 'Ten thousand? Less?' / 'Fewer.'
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Oh, and also - the music that plays when Sansa watches Arya water-dance with Brienne - is that the same music that Ned hears when Arya starts with Syrio?
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Maisie Williams used to be arguably the show's best actor. It's almost embarrassing to watch her now. Part of it might be that Arya is no longer a ten- or twelve-year-old girl and is thus that much less adorable, but she doesn't seem to have the same 'pluck' (is that a sexist term? whatever) that she did as a kid. I really hope the material for her improves - the sparring with Brienne was... augh.

Really? I've been happy with her this season. I think she's got a real presence. I loved her line delivery, especially in the scene with Hot Pie. I think I noted in the last topic how much I liked her in the sparring scene. She had a crazy kind of savage enjoyment on her face as she fought, which I thought was supposed to be interpreted as either "holy shit she's a fucking scary psycho" or "damn she's cool", or both.
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I don't think this is Daenerys going full fire and blood. She could have easily just brought all three dragons and torched Jaime's entire army, but she didn't, and I think it's been well-established she's not going to burn King's Landing down anymore.This is just what war looks like when one side has a dragon, and war already looks pretty bad. It seemed to me they were trying to show both sides here. It's not like Battle of the Bastards where you clearly aren't supposed to root for one side. This was showing "war is hell, but also dragon fights are super fucking rad."

Also had a though about the supplies. Burning them all kind of makes sense if you expect them to retreat at some point. If she's starting her siege of King's Landing, it's important that they get as little supplies from The Reach as possible. She'd rather no one have it if they started to pack up and save whatever they can while running away. It's already kind of insane that they didn't flee immediately; they already thought they were going to get smashed by the overwhelming numbers of the Dothraki, and then the dragon showed up. But Jaime's a fucking idiot and tried to actually win that battle.

Who knows on how Dany plans on feeding her army during a siege but I expect a throwaway line about it next episode.
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XIII_rocks posted...

She had a crazy kind of savage enjoyment on her face as she fought, which I thought was supposed to be interpreted as either "holy shit she's a fucking scary psycho" or "damn she's cool", or both.

Shouldn't she need to be able to become "no one" in order to pull off the whole face thing?

I feel like she should be bringing that dispassion to battle, not enjoyment.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

It's already kind of insane that they didn't flee immediately; they already thought they were going to get smashed by the overwhelming numbers of the Dothraki, and then the dragon showed up. But Jaime's a fucking idiot and tried to actually win that battle.

They're on foot. The Dothraki are on horseback. If they try to flee, they get slaughtered.
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I feel like she should be bringing that dispassion to battle, not enjoyment.

I thought the way she left the house of black and white showed she wouldn't be doing that. She rejected their ideology but took their training. When she left she said her name was Arya, not no-one.
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I thought the Jon/Dany first scene was intentionally awkward, because it should have been. the Stark reunion was also meant to be awkward. you've got a three eyed raven, a cold-blooded murderer and a withdrawn rape victim together after years. makes perfect sense. there's no real happy reunions in Westeros.
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dowolf posted...

They're on foot. The Dothraki are on horseback. If they try to flee, they get slaughtered.

I mean....they get slaughtered anyways. It's a losing battle no matter what, it's just a matter of how many people die.
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Sansa is soooo scared of Arya... rightfully I guess

Manyyyyy things ;)

Good thing there were a bunch of politically convincing carvings in that cave

Arya fight scene too good

Alright now that's a battle scene. "durrr why didn't they spend more time on the highgarden battle!!!!"

That underwater fire shot oh my god

Talk about plot armor though, especially for Bronn
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That fight worked because it was totally ambiguous about who to root for (other than Bronn, but he's kinda 3rd party)

That being said it nearly confirms the show's endgame, which is to have Dany + Jon + Jaime teaming up for the final fight
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Bronn has more than earned his fucking plot armor by now okay

like if he can't get his castle as least give him his plot armor
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