Current Events > how would you rank the Snakes in ability *MGS spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

the Snakes being: Liquid, Naked, Solid, Solidus, and Venom.

Raiden is being omitted for good reason
---

Solid > Naked = Venom, but idk about the rest.

Liquid is the most durable, but he has a weak mindset, in relation to the rest, and Solid whooped him on multiple occasions.

we haven't seen what Solidus can do without the suit.
---

bump
---

Naked > Solid > Venom > Liquid

I'm going to assume Solidus is bottom tier
---

Naked is simultaneously the most fragile and the most durable. Dude gets crippling injuries from stubbing his toe, but on the other hand he shrugs them off like they're nothing.

Solidus is pretty clearly the shittiest given that he needs some fancy Iron Man suit set up to do anything and even still couldn't beat Raiden
---

2SweetforTurtle posted...

Naked > Solid > Venom > Liquid

I'm going to assume Solidus is bottom tier

---

after some more thought -

a stealth fight in the wilderness :

Naked > Venom > Solid > Liquid > Solidus

a straight up fight in an urban setting:

Solid > Naked = Venom > Liquid > Solidus
---

boxington posted...

bump

---

Solid. The rest are trash and don't matter

Solid > Venom >>> Big Boss > Solidus > Liquid

Pretty easy tbh
---

Solid > Liquid > Solidus > Venom => Big Boss
---

one more
---

Venom literally had a rocket fist.
---

Big Boss can literally lift up a Metal Gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZY4--lnHp4
---

Swagnificent119 posted...

Big Boss can literally lift up a Metal Gear.

This is misleading. All soldiers in Peace Walker can overpower The Peace Walker's crush attack
---

Doe posted...

This is misleading. All soldiers in Peace Walker can overpower The Peace Walker's crush attack

So Big Boss and his trained men > Solid Snake and the rest.

Also that's not Peace Walker.
---

Venom is supposed to be BB's best dude, so he should be included
---

But Snake killed Big Boss with nothing but a can of hairspray and a lighter.

Metal Gear lore is really fucked up. They need to remake the first two games
---

Swagnificent119 posted...

Doe posted...

This is misleading. All soldiers in Peace Walker can overpower The Peace Walker's crush attack

So Big Boss and his trained men > Solid Snake and the rest.

Also that's not Peace Walker.

Fuck, was it Metal Gear ZEKE? whatever

You have to remember that Venom Snake is one of Big Boss' trained men tho

And Solid beats them
---

Venom Snake wanted to die though.

Big Boss too, if we want to be honest.
---

I don't think Venom wanted to die; he likely became bitter that he became BB's pawn, over time, and when Solid ripped through his forces, he accepted his fate.
---

I dunno anymore

After the end of V I think MG1 and 2 are just broke and inherently unreliable
---

What was Venom's biggest accomplishment again?

Can't remember most of MGS5
---

Solid pretty much kills every name you listed there, including Big Boss with some hairspray.

Solid is clearly the strongest character in MGS universe.
---

Doe posted...

After the end of V I think MG1 and 2 are just broke and inherently unreliable

I've been saying this for years. MG1 and MG2 as games should not be considered canon, just the basic lore of it.

But on the other hand regardless nothing will ever make sense after how fucking off the wall things got with Peace Walker and Phantom Pain.

Kojima fanboys get super pissed when I say it though. I really hate how shitty the fanbase has become.

It's kind of like how they say that there *needed* to be an explanation for how Big Boss survived Metal Gear 1 even though there was an (admittedly weak) explanation in Metal Gear 2 already.
---

Etherealfare posted...

Solid pretty much kills every name you listed there, including Big Boss with some hairspray.

Solid is clearly the strongest character in MGS universe.

Solid failed to beat Fortune, though.
---

alphagamble posted...

What was Venom's biggest accomplishment again?

Can't remember most of MGS5

Destroying MG Sahelanthropus (most advanced Metal Gear by far)
Solo-invading OKB Zero
Highest amount of on-screen successful missions
Total nuclear disarmament of the world
---

I actually had a dream today where MGS6 was released and it was about BB being captured and Venom working to save him

it was pretty cool
---

Etherealfare posted...

Solid pretty much kills every name you listed there, including Big Boss with some hairspray.

Solid is clearly the strongest character in MGS universe.

maybe I'm misremembering, but I think that at the end of MGS2, Kojima said Raiden was equal to Solid.
---

Doe posted...

I actually had a dream today where MGS6 was released and it was about BB being captured and Venom working to save him

it was pretty cool

probably the plot to Death Stranding.

the whole Kojima/Konami thing is an elaborate ploy.
---

I think that's kind of iffy

Plus apparently in MGR:R Raiden implies that Solid could still beat him
---

he did?

I haven't played MGR in a while.
---

People were saying it on /v/ so take it with a grain of salt but AFAIK if true it's not in cutscenes, it's from a codec.

MGR has some okay codecs but the pace of the game makes it super awkward to talk to them a lot unlike MGS3
---

I'm gonna include Raiden cause why the fuck not.

MGR:R Raiden > All Snakes > MGS2 Raiden

raiden literally beat solidus while solidus also had like doc ock armor
---

AlecSkorpio posted...

Etherealfare posted...

Solid pretty much kills every name you listed there, including Big Boss with some hairspray.

Solid is clearly the strongest character in MGS universe.

Solid failed to beat Fortune, though.

Fortune > the Snakes
---

Solid > Naked > Liquid > Solidus > Venom.

Solid and Naked could go either way. Big Boss had a long, hard career of war, and he cheated death multiple times. He was the OG super-soldier, and he was taken out by FOXDIE rather than natural causes - though the only reason he lived that long was due to an extended coma, and by using the organs of one of his clones. Even then, dude clearly had cred. But Solid Snake fought to his dying breath, and he made some hard fucking calls. He was created to be a tool, but he broke free and began a career of peace-keeping and trying to stop war. Solid tried to do the right thing, and as you can see in 4, he gave it everything he had - despite having less time on Earth, his skills and determination rival those of Big Boss himself. And that's worth something.

Liquid took a long-ass time to die. Despite his pompous nature, he had longevity and he was a cunning son of a bitch. Solidus had his own mind-bending plan, but in the end he was a pawn of the Patriots, no matter how much he tried to escape it. Liquid was a loose cannon - he was free.

Venom has cred for sure - I've played over 300 hours of TPP, so I've seen him have some mad skills - but the fact is that he was a delusional medic preyed upon by Big Boss into continuing his macho legacy and doing his dirty work for him. He had no skills for a majority of his life, and he became a pawn of Big Boss - unwillingly, via suggestion and hypnosis, and then willingly when he learned the truth. He's the Snake with the weakest mind, and his skills only offer a smokescreen for the real deal - as far as Snakes go, Venom is a pretty pale imitation. The skills are there, but the spirit isn't - he is a tool, plain and simple.
---

Also yeah, why wouldn't we include Raiden? He's earned his place

Solid>Venom>BB>Liquid>Raiden>Solidus

I think there comes a point later when Venom becomes better than BB but hairspray is his fuckin kryptonite apparently , but that's just speculation on my part

I want to move Solidus higher, since he should be the more perfect clone of BB, but he's Doc Ock the whole game so eh

Liquid's just fuckin unkillable so I wanted to also put him higher, but eh again
---

^ wasn't Venom complicit in the plan from the get go, and only went with the whole hypnosis thing for the sake of the ruse?

and it's been a while since I've played MGS, but wasn't Liquid as much of a pawn as anyone else?

Edit: at post 37

Edit #2: at post 38 - I omitted Raiden because he's one of the most OP characters in the series
---

MrMallard posted...

The skills are there, but the spirit isn't - he is a tool, plain and simple.

that's just blatantly untrue tbh

He shatters the mirror's reflection of a hateful BB/Skullface and walks away into his own unclear future at the end of the game. the Disarmament Ending shows that he has ideologically split from Big Boss and now looks up to The Boss' myth-like legacy to guide him rather than the darker person that BB became. Sure, he was designed by Zero and Ocelot to become a tool, but as we see throughout the game, in the Paz sidequest, and the ending, Venom's indivduality could not be destroyed.

The game even makes a point of Venom living up to at least be BB's equal when Kaz reverently calls him that for the first time in V (he never calls John Big Boss even in GZ, or PW for that matter iirc)

Even Big Boss admits in MGS4 when talking about Liquid Ocelot, who was a really similar case, that in the MG universe, you can never fully make one person into another.
---

Honestly, is the nuclear disarmament even canon? Did anyone even actual achieve it legit?
---

AlecSkorpio posted...

Honestly, is the nuclear disarmament even canon?

Yes, it leads directly into MG1. The plot was that the world reached a stage of world peace where all nukes were gone, which we now know is thanks to Venom and Kaz.

This was a problem for the real Big Boss because of his whole "world for soldiers" ideology
---

Doe posted...

Yes, it leads directly into MG1. The plot was that the world reached a stage of world peace where all nukes were gone, which we now know is thanks to Venom and Kaz.

This was a problem for the real Big Boss because of his whole "world for soldiers" ideology

The problem is that MGS1 directly contradicts this. Similar to how MGS2 and MGS4 contradict the creation of OILX.

Also, I thought the plot was that Big Boss stole all of the worlds nukes. Or was that the NES version?

This is what I mean when I say that the lore is way too fucked up now.
---

eh i dunno

Honestly you can make a convincing argument that V is a timeline split based on the path Venom goes down
---

MGSV doesn't make any fucking sense from any standpoint.

I mean, Kojima was so done with MGS that I'm convinced he just said fuck it at that point and didn't care if any of it made sense.
---

V might be the worst game for retcons. 4 was bad, but V is in its own league imo.
---

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

MGSV doesn't make any fucking sense from any standpoint.

I mean, Kojima was so done with MGS that I'm convinced he just said fuck it at that point and didn't care if any of it made sense.

how so?
---

AlecSkorpio posted...

Etherealfare posted...

Solid pretty much kills every name you listed there, including Big Boss with some hairspray.

Solid is clearly the strongest character in MGS universe.

Solid failed to beat Fortune, though.

Ocelot explains this is because Fortune has a BS forcefield around her.
---

Etherealfare posted...

Ocelot explains this is because Fortune has a BS forcefield around her.

Yeah, but it's kind of bullshitty when you look at all of Snakes accomplishments IMO.

It always seemed like a massive gap to me. He was in a situation where he should have either been able to take her down hand to hand, or been killed because he couldn't.
---

I just learned that they delayed Metal gear Survive to 2018

Hopefully that means they're really putting more work into it

Too bad they didn't delay V to 2018


Apparently it will have a "dense singleplayer mode," I had no idea about that

I want it to do well and them try a MGS6 or reboot
---