Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - Send a raven North... (SPOILER)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm literally gripping the sofa during almost every scene at the moment. Let off a bit only during the awkward Bran/Sansa scene but I actually liked how detached and strange Bran has become. It's interesting to see it through the eyes of someone like Sansa.
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Will we have any rage of Jaime being raped? Probably not. Lol
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Euron. Fucking. Greyjoy.
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StifledSilence posted...

Euron. Fucking. Greyjoy.

96/10 character

Dude is the best. The trolling of Jaime. The mocking of Theon. Being a goddamn rock star.
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I'm super surprised that Jon walking into the throne room wasn't the final scene of the episode. Thought for sure we would cut to black on Dany on the throne.

Amazing episode. Dany getting owned is actually pretty amazing, especially with the red herring that Tyrion's time in the sewers was gonna pay off the way it would in any other series. I'm also glad that the Lannister army wasn't decimated as I'm still hoping for them to be numbers against the Walkers with Jamie at the head.

Lady Olenna went out like a fucking baller. I'll miss her.
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Terrific episode.

#CalledIt that Grey Worm wouldn't die. The writers try to subvert death expectancy now that life expectancy isn't always so longer as shocking an ordeal.
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Pretty good episode.

Still think the Euron stuff is the weakest of it though. Both his parade/WWE stuff at KL and his official inheriting of Ramsay's BS plot hax at Casterly Rock.

Everything else was great though.

Jon being a baller at Dragonstone and calling out Daenerys. My hype for Daenerys going villain/crazy actually being reignited (i'll be disappointed here in the end i think but oh man.) Creepy!Bran actually pretty good. Cersei being portrayed as competent is still hilarious but whatever, her scene with the Sand Snakes still pretty intense. Daenerys's army getting trolled and outplayed always great to see. And Olenna was the absolute most baller of all.
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Oh and I forgot my dark horse "highlight scene"

Melisandre was incredible. lmao varys making all those threats and she reminded him why Team Stannis is still the best collection of characters.
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JetJaguar posted...

I'm super surprised that Jon walking into the throne room wasn't the final scene of the episode. Thought for sure we would cut to black on Dany on the throne.

Amazing episode. Dany getting owned is actually pretty amazing, especially with the red herring that Tyrion's time in the sewers was gonna pay off the way it would in any other series. I'm also glad that the Lannister army wasn't decimated as I'm still hoping for them to be numbers against the Walkers with Jamie at the head.

Lady Olenna went out like a fucking baller. I'll miss her.

I knew Olenna was going to die because they needed Dany to lose all her allies to make this interesting/them the scrappy underdogs (and damn did they succeed on that front), but it still broke my heart. Top ten favorite character easy. Maybe top five. Her death scene was top tier.

ALSO I loved the misdirect of them having Tyrion do his sewer monologue only for them to be vastly outplayed.

Dany is out of allies. Next episode should be FUN. This one might be one of my favorites though outside the "BIG" ones everyone loves.
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not the most thrilling episode to me. jon and dany were awkward. thank god for davos though.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

thank god for davos though.

never doubt team stannis

they bring their a game every time
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no, but i actually can't stand that the tyrells got punked like that.

cersei: gold wins wars
tycho: yes but the tyrells are the ones with money

meanwhile, highgarden somehow gets stormed and taken without even inflicting lannister or tarly losses
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I loved loved loved Jon and Daenerys.
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XIII_rocks posted...

StifledSilence posted...

Euron. Fucking. Greyjoy.

96/10 character

Dude is the best. The trolling of Jaime. The mocking of Theon. Being a goddamn rock star.

And the crazy thing is he gets better every episode! Even though it would kill the aesthetics of the show, I'd love to see a titantron with blaring metal music and pyro when he enters a room. He's at that level.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

meanwhile, highgarden somehow gets stormed and taken without even inflicting lannister or tarly losses

Jaime respec'd all his points into Siege Combat after he lost his hand. It's actually now a disadvantage to face him from a castle or fort.

Euron is a dual class Pirate/Wizard but he only took Wizard for Mass Teleport.
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kirbypikachuhat posted...

Will we have any rage of Jaime being raped? Probably not. Lol

Are you?
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Jeff Zero posted...

I loved loved loved Jon and Daenerys.

i think it was alright. there were good points, but it didn't feel like it caught fire. it felt like two awkward actors with an awkward script.

i dunno, i'm usually not so whiny about the show, but the way the tyrells rolled over like that made zero sense to me, and it really undermined the idea that they could ever have done anything. the treatment of house tyrell by the show, throughout its entire run, has been a massive disappointment to me.

i think the planning that went into it was brilliant! abandon casterly rock, send euron in, and get the powerful reachmen to turn on house tyrell. but the storming of highgarden should have been an event as bloody as the blackwater.

also, olenna was obviously marked for death. she says she outlived all these clever men by ignoring them, but now that they're gone, she has no one to protect her. and she thinks she was outplayed by cersei. it's a ridiculous way to shill for cersei.

i don't think cersei's revenge was as exciting for thrilling as the amount of time + INTENSE CLOSEUP shots indicated it was.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Jeff Zero posted...

I loved loved loved Jon and Daenerys.

i think it was alright. there were good points, but it didn't feel like it caught fire. it felt like two awkward actors with an awkward script.

i dunno, i'm usually not so whiny about the show, but the way the tyrells rolled over like that made zero sense to me, and it really undermined the idea that they could ever have done anything. the treatment of house tyrell by the show, throughout its entire run, has been a massive disappointment to me.

Ooo, i absolutely agree with this. There was something about the jon/Dany interaction that was just really...meh and cringey. It wasn't really what I expected.

And the comment about tyrells just rolling over...yeah, that was weird and out of place to me for sure. I would have expected them to put up more of a fight.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

i think it was alright. there were good points, but it didn't feel like it caught fire. it felt like two awkward actors with an awkward script.

I mean, it kind of was. But I was so surprised and pleased to finally see someone call Daenerys out that I was willing to overlook that. Plus Davos and Tyrion were putting in work too.

i dunno, i'm usually not so whiny about the show, but the way the tyrells rolled over like that made zero sense to me, and it really undermined the idea that they could ever have done anything. the treatment of house tyrell by the show, throughout its entire run, has been a massive disappointment to me.

I mean, the show has done this forever. you just gotta roll with it. This wasn't as bad as Stannis, the best commander in Westeros, being shredded by "20 good men." It might not even be the worst thing in the past two weeks given that Yara, supposedly a skilled captain, got surprise attacked by an entire fleet and wiped out while apparently causing no damage in return.

i don't think cersei's revenge was as exciting for thrilling as the amount of time + INTENSE CLOSEUP shots indicated it was.

It wasn't, but I expected something more straightforward from her, so it was nice for that not to happen. She even kind of lampshaded it by mentioning she considered being "poetic" by having Zombie Gregor re-enact Oberyn's death.
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this is the first episode where i can agree with people about issues with the speed of travel, btw. cersei's line about a 'fortnight' was probably overly ambitious, with jaime still in bed with her at the time, and both euron and dany sailing from king's landing to casterly rock in that time.

i love the way the plot moved this episode. i hate the shortcuts it took. is there just no dornish army left because a few bastards died? shouldn't this bring up more anger among the dornish?

i defended the way the show took dorne in S6. S5 was a disaster, but ellaria killing doran - while stupid for her character - makes perfect sense. it's easily explained if the dornish people felt the same way about the lannisters as ellaria did - they actually are hawkish. and while ellaria doesn't do anything in S6 until she allies with dany, you have to assume she has the support of the people.

the result of ned's death in S1: king in the north is crowned and civil war gets red hot. the northern army is galvanized.

the result of ellaria's death in S7: the sun gets knocked over on the chamber of the painted table.
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I thought it was all good, especially the tension and buildup for Jon and Dany. maybe book readers care more about the Tyrells? they felt out of the picture the second Margaery went down.
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I think the complaints here are more that siege of a major castle shouldn't be able to be done so quickly or cleanly.

Even if they off-screened it for budget or time it's weird that the Lannisters could siege and capture Highgarden and be totally fine afterwards. It's pretty obviously done because otherwise things would be too easy for Daenerys with the Lannister army either being tied up at Highgarden or rather depleted but yeah. Like I said, just gotta roll with it. This isn't new for the show.
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Westeros operates on the USS Enterprise's teleporter system now. The amount of remaining runtime just demands it, unfortunately. Jon and Davos went to White Harbor and then sailed down to Dragonstone all since the last time we saw them in 7x02. I think in years to come people will digest the fact that the first time we ever saw Jon anywhere but in the North, he just casually climbed out of a canoe more than halfway south. Granted, I'm of the opinion that everything which follows is super, but yeah. Still kind of unfortunate.

I guess I can kinda see how someone might find his material with Daenerys awkward. I thought both actors did a fine job, though, and they have strong chemistry. Which they really needed to have, since I have long expected Poke's nightmare is totally coming true, and I'll be fine with it, lol.
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I think Ramsay's 20 good men is overstated. He's fighting on his home turf, in the fucking winter. And I loved it because he shredded Stannis's army without having to fight it. We're not talking Shirtless Ramsay against Elite Ironborn Soldiers here, which was far more terrible.

Stannis's claims to fame are holding Storm's End (impressive - but much more about will than skill), taking Dragonstone (in a war already won, with the Targaryen children smuggled out), and smashing Victarion's fleet with superior numbers in a naval battle. His strengths don't seem to be in logistics or in leading land armies during the winter.

Yara got sneak-attacked at night in a storm with lots of fog. It was also a fantastic visual spectacle with a physical force in Euron (and his GIANT FUCKING SHIP!) that made the results more believable. If we'd seen Highgarden fall in a Blackwater-like rout, or the Tyrell soldiers losing faith and just surrendering, or Olenna telling her troops to lay down their arms so she could take the L for the team, that would have been different.

transience posted...

I thought it was all good, especially the tension and buildup for Jon and Dany. maybe book readers care more about the Tyrells? they felt out of the picture the second Margaery went down.

You don't have to care about the Tyrells as characters - most of them are on the margins in the books; we get no Reach POVs - but this is from the very episode as the fall of Highgarden:

SeabassDebeste posted...

cersei: gold wins wars
tycho: yes but the tyrells are the ones with money

literally, gold wins wars, and the tyrells have gold. AND they're the ones defending the castle.
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Jeff Zero posted...

and they have strong chemistry.

Strong disagree here. Though I got the feeling they were trying to have it come across that way.

Jeff Zero posted...

I think in years to come people will digest the fact that the first time we ever saw Jon anywhere but in the North, he just casually climbed out of a canoe more than halfway south. Granted, I'm of the opinion that everything which follows is super, but yeah. Still kind of unfortunate.

That never bothered me. ...Why would it be a problem? He clearly took it from Gendry the bigger ship you see at one point.
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Jeff Zero posted...

and they have strong chemistry.

u wot m8

Easily the bottom part of the ep entirely because of how little chemistry they have.
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I read all the books and the Tyrells were never major players. Olenna was shewd and just as great as she was in the show, but she had no military prowess. Their best bannerman and the strength of their military power (in both the book and the show - Mace was a buffoon in both) switched sides and their commander was an elderly woman with no battle experience. She's powerful politically. They've never shown her to have military savvy.

Margaery was the only other major power player in the family. She isn't as calculating in the books, and she's dead in the show already (and again, her strength was political).
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SeabassDebeste posted...

I think Ramsay's 20 good men is overstated.

it's understated because every statement about the show doesn't include how stupid it was as a way to remind us all of what we're dealing with here
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Jeff Zero posted...

Westeros operates on the USS Enterprise's teleporter system now. The amount of remaining runtime just demands it, unfortunately. Jon and Davos went to White Harbor and then sailed down to Dragonstone all since the last time we saw them in 7x02.

I'm all for accelerating the plot. I just want the characters to say the right amount of time. If Cersei had said 'one month' or 'two months' instead of 'a fortnight,' I would have zero issues. I had relatively few issues with 6x10's teleportation, because I could tell myself that months were passing in Westeros time and we were watching time jumps. I defend non-sequential storytelling earlier in this very topic.

But I have limits.
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And Yara being taken by surprise wasn't completely out of character either. She has much more battle experience, sure, but she was shown to be good at raiding and that sort of thing. I don't remember them ever showing her in open combat in the water in the books or the show.

You think she would have the whole "have someone keep a watch" thing down at least, but it was crazy foggy so maybe I can overlook that a bit. >_>
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FFDragon posted...

Jeff Zero posted...

and they have strong chemistry.

u wot m8

Easily the bottom part of the ep entirely because of how little chemistry they have.

It was my favorite sequence thus far this season in large part because of their chemistry.

I'll see you on the fields of SMGOTC, ser.
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FFDragon posted...

Easily the bottom part of the ep entirely because of how little chemistry they have.

the throne room was awkward, but i think there was a tiny spark in the scene at the cliffs of dragonstone.

i think to some extent the stiffness is intentional, as there's a ton of formality here. it's why davos and tyrion are so great, since they're not bound by having to be king

but it made for less compelling TV to me
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Like...Randyll was the strength in the Tyrell army. He was the famous battle commander that was Mace's power. Mace didn't know what he was doing. If Tarly switched sides, that alone is a huge blow. Who knows what other houses followed (Cersei had a bunch of families she gave the pitch to).
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this show is so bad

love jaime "kingsslayer" lannister saying "nobody holds your actions against you later even if you made the world better/at peace"

jon snow and dany are such bad actors

but i mean like they had no siege weaponry or anything did they

(...does westeros even have siege weaponry? i feel they must but it's now occurring to me i only remember this from the books)

I have no issue with the Lannisters winning that battle, it's just it should have taken time and losses to accomplish. And really I don't care about it much at all because this is so low on the number of issues I could have with the show. And right now this season has been a pleasant surprise with the exception of Euron who seems to be the anthropomorphic personification of much of what I dislike about it.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

You think she would have the whole "have someone keep a watch" thing down at least, but it was crazy foggy so maybe I can overlook that a bit. >_>

in the books it's hinted that euron can literally bring the storm. even in the show, he tells balon 'i am the storm.'

there was literally a book theory, before the forsaken TWOW chapter was released, that euron was sailing behind victarion to meereen. and many people, including me, found it believable.

i still think that being unable to see a head-on collision is a bit of a stretch, but the visual spectacle made up for it

Suprak the Stud posted...

Their best bannerman and the strength of their military power (in both the book and the show - Mace was a buffoon in both) switched sides and their commander was an elderly woman with no battle experience. She's powerful politically. They've never shown her to have military savvy.

literally holding one of the greatest castles in the land, literally the richest house in the land, literally mobilizing for war. there's no way they were outnumbered by more than 2:1. i don't think you need a great military mind for your men to put up a fucking fight there.

literally loses to cersei (jaime really), politically, by losing the fairly loyal randyll, despite having dragons with dany. so she's evidently lost a few steps in that game, too. in fairness, that part could be written off as her general decline since the deaths of her progeny.
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Yeah I have to admit, Cersei directly stating a timeline is kind of the limit on my suspension of disbelief when it comes to the whole teleportation deal. Before you could just say there was an indeterminate time between each scene, or that we're now just skipping to the "good bit" of every plot, that stuff is out of order, etc.

But like, it may have taken Jaime two weeks or more to even get to Highgarden. That's a problem. But not a big one - just something they should be avoiding if they want to move the characters so fast.

Give the viewers a chance, at least, to seek plausibility? I suppose that's what I'm saying. I could defend teleporting Varys because it was all vague re what happened when. I can't defend this when it's directly stated.

Plotholes generally are overstated on message boards because it often gets to a point where the person pointing it out is actively choosing to dislike what they are watching, because they're arguing against any explanation for said plothole, however plausible. But this is one you can't really get around.
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xp1337 posted...

but i mean like they had no siege weaponry or anything did they

(...does westeros even have siege weaponry? i feel they must but it's now occurring to me i only remember this from the books)

Essos does for sure - see the Battle of Fire. Jaime also threatens Edmure with putting his baby 'in a catapult.'

I have no issue with the Lannisters winning that battle, it's just it should have taken time and losses to accomplish.

yes! thank you!

And really I don't care about it much at all because this is so low on the number of issues I could have with the show. And right now this season has been a pleasant surprise with the exception of Euron who seems to be the anthropomorphic personification of much of what I dislike about it.

it's funny how literally the opposite things bother us here. i won't argue with you on this point, since we agree on all the points, just we find different ones more offensive!
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alright as for stuff i did like this episode

the move that jaime pulls is phenomenal

euron is a fucking rock star, my god

the queen of thorns getting a less painful death than joffrey and gloating about it hell yeah

'widow's wail'
'... what a c***' good lord yes

ser davos!!! i know he's a lord in the books. i think he was lorded by stannis in the show, too, IIRC? but 'ser davos' rolls off the tongue so much better.

best tyrion episode in quite some time, but i wanted him at casterly rock. having him shill for dany... it's rough. davos shilling for jon is way more effective.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

You think she would have the whole "have someone keep a watch" thing down at least, but it was crazy foggy so maybe I can overlook that a bit. >_>

in the books it's hinted that euron can literally bring the storm. even in the show, he tells balon 'i am the storm.'

there was literally a book theory, before the forsaken TWOW chapter was released, that euron was sailing behind victarion to meereen. and many people, including me, found it believable.

i still think that being unable to see a head-on collision is a bit of a stretch, but the visual spectacle made up for it

Suprak the Stud posted...

Their best bannerman and the strength of their military power (in both the book and the show - Mace was a buffoon in both) switched sides and their commander was an elderly woman with no battle experience. She's powerful politically. They've never shown her to have military savvy.

literally holding one of the greatest castles in the land, literally the richest house in the land, literally mobilizing for war. there's no way they were outnumbered by more than 2:1. i don't think you need a great military mind for your men to put up a fucking fight there.

literally loses to cersei (jaime really), politically, by losing the fairly loyal randyll, despite having dragons with dany. so she's evidently lost a few steps in that game, too. in fairness, that part could be written off as her general decline since the deaths of her progeny.

First part is definitely possible, but they never talk about that in the show so I'm not giving them credit for that. He is certainly more mysterious in the book/seems to have magic powers or is at least great at BSing it/has an actual weapon that can counter dragons but none of that is covered in the show. He's basically a nonstop wrestling entrance (I'm not complaining - I actually think he's a lot of fun but that it just doesn't fully explain how Yara was caught so off guard).

Secondly, she was fairly consumed with revenge so she sort of lost her major strength politically. It was a mistake allying with foreign invaders and being in open rebellion, but she was desperate for any chance at revenge she could get. Tarly's defection makes sense given his distrust of foreigners. He's extremely vocal about how much he hates wildlings in season six, and I would assume that would extend to dothraki as well. That pitch was well suited to him, specifically.

He was their best military power. They make that point clear in the show and the books, multiple times. He was their strength, and it wouldn't surprise me if other houses joined him considering that Olenna had aligned herself with a foreign invader and Randyll Tarly was who they respected anyway.

I don't disagree they jobbed a bit...but this isn't on the level of Yara or Stannis imho.
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I agree with you the optics of Euron's entrance were amazing, so I didn't get caught up in Yara getting crushed because it made for great viewing.

Just thought she'd have more fight in her or that she wouldn't allow herself to be that badly caught off guard. Nothing that really bothered me, though!
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I'd be shocked if Euron had any magic to him. The show would not slow play that at this point, if it would have at all.

He's exactly what he seems to be.
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despite the massive amount of the books involving supernatural elements the show has removed a lot of it. the main dude showrunner is the guy who made troy without anything involving the gods. the fucking cover of winds of winter is a horn...in a book where a dragon horn might play a big role, and that plot has not even been introduced whatsoever. the only magic in this world is that people think this show is prestige tv and not an adolescent show because it has a lot of money spent on it.

Jeff Zero posted...

since I have long expected Poke's nightmare is totally coming true, and I'll be fine with it, lol.

If it leads to more naked Dany.......hey, I'll ship them! Lolz.
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speaking of naked

those cersei boobs were so clearly not cersei's boobs it was almost insulting
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velocycloraptor posted...

despite the massive amount of the books involving supernatural elements the show has removed a lot of it. the main dude showrunner is the guy who made troy without anything involving the gods. the fucking cover of winds of winter is a horn...in a book where a dragon horn might play a big role, and that plot has not even been introduced whatsoever. the only magic in this world is that people think this show is prestige tv and not an adolescent show because it has a lot of money spent on it.

Agreed, 100% they've taken out so much magic/supernatural elements. Catelyn's return being ignored is definitely grating along with the horn.
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The former is worse than the latter, if only because we don't even know where the books are going with that.

But I mean, whatever. Within the scope of the show it's fine. If anything my annoyance with those decisions comes mainly from either the showrunner comments/explanations for why they made the changes or from a more meta "So does this mean X is going nowhere in the books?"
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I'll wait a few days before posting my full thoughts as per usual, but I just want to say now I thought this episode was great. Best of the season so far for me.
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I guess this confirms Tyene's death now that Bronn is all the way at Highgarden.
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