Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks the Dark Souls II Bosses and Areas - THE LIST

(+) Yeah! (+)

I know a lot of people are against using summons for whatever reason, but summoning Manscorpion Tark against Scorpioness Najka makes the fight so much cooler
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Johnbobb posted...

I'll be damned if that was just 5 minutes the first time through

yeah that was probably generous. it's probably like a 30 minute level that you can reduce to 45 seconds once you master the game. just fucking phenomenal design.
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in case anyone is curious and in case it wasn't incredibly obvious, Huntsman's Copse was the level I referred to in the submission topic when I said my most hated level was something I was looking forward to blasting and that it wouldn't be obvious which level it was.
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your critique of huntsman's copse is pretty arbitrary and I don't feel there is anything to back up any of your points.

my critique is that it's a level without any shortcuts that requires you to run through the entire level without any quick route every time you play the game. you don't feel there is anything to back this up?

like, maybe the fact that it's objectively true?
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i just think it looks boring and plays boring
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I can think of three shortcuts in Huntsman's Copse just off the top of my head.

One of them is that useless tree between two bonfires but still!
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to clarify when I say shortcuts I'm talking about stuff like

in the gutter you can run and jump across to platforms in order to skip huge sections of the level

in hunstman's copse you cannot do this. it's one of the few levels in all of dark souls 2 that is a speedrunning bottleneck. it's only exacerbated by the fact that you can't really skip this area since it's a gateway to a ton of later content and furthermore you have to bring a specific NPC and/or key item back to the location to even open the way in.

compare this to

1. sinner's rise: has two separate routes you can take that lead here, each with their own methods of cutting down the amount of time you spend running that route
2. the gutter: interesting in that it can be accessed by jumping into the well or bringing gilligan back later. the gutter is one of the top levels in terms of cutting time out of your route by learning shortcuts
3. old iron keep: locked behind the hunstman's copse gateway. there is only one way in. there is only one route through. there is very little way to cut down the amount of time you spend in HC.
4. tseldora: can be accessed with a fragrant branch, which is interesting similarly to the gutter in that you can actually get these from different places. this means your route can be designed around the idea of where and when you obtain your branch. shaded woods is big enough to reward exploration but has a direct route that can be run straight to the boss in almost every level on this path.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Speedrunning is irrelevant to how good a game's design is.

not to a speedrunner
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UltimaterializerX posted...

They are never considered when designing and never should be.

you are welcome to that opinion.
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that may be true. I wouldn't proclaim to know for certain what game developers should or shouldn't do. if I knew that I would probably be a game developer and I would be making a lot of money.

what I do know is actually objectively true and not an opinion:

1. hunstman's copse is a speedrunning bottleneck

this fact affected my opinion of the area, since I was rating it based on my opinion of the game. my opinion is that I did not enjoy this level very much sine it was a speedrunning bottleneck.
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if your goal was to rank the levels based on what you perceive to be the objective truth of how all games should be made, that is your right to do so
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The rule was to rank based on how much you enjoy them. Whether that be by design, aesthetic, lore, etc. doesn't really matter. Everyone plays and enjoys these games for different reasons.
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DArk souls was never designed to be a speed run game so it's pretty ludicrous to expect there to be speed run designed levels, especially since speed running is a very niche market.

Also you definitely do not have to do anywhere near everything in the copse every time. There's multiple shortcuts and optional areas.

The only bottleneck thing you have to do is hit the lever to lower the bridge. Everything else you can literally just run past

you make a very compelling argument, Altma15

I now suddenly enjoy something that I did not enjoy doing the 20 previous times

thank you for the wonderful discussion
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tazzy I know this might be difficult but feel free to update my list and move Huntsman's Copse to the top where it objectively belongs
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MariaTaylor posted...

you make a very compelling argument, Altma15

I now suddenly enjoy something that I did not enjoy doing the 20 previous times

thank you for the wonderful discussion

I mean, you went out of your way to invite discussion about this. You were begging for attention in this topic, don't get all pissy now that I decided to talk about it.

oh, you're telepathic. well that explains how you know so many unknowable things. neat.
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You realize you're throwing a hissy fit because someone didn't agree with you about a dark souls level? Do you realize how stupid that sounds

Altma15 posted...

You realize you're throwing a hissy fit

no, I didn't realize that. it's interesting that you believe that is what i happening here though.
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MariaTaylor posted...

if your goal was to rank the levels based on what you perceive to be the objective truth of how all games should be made, that is your right to do so

Hey everyone has their own method. I'm not hating.
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MariaTaylor posted...

tazzy I know this might be difficult but feel free to update my list and move Huntsman's Copse to the top where it objectively belongs

I don't even know what we're fighting about anymore but I support this as it'll give the whole argument a happy ending
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btw ulti I wrote a pretty lengthy post about making arcane builds in bloodborne for a friend in another playthrough topic. I remember you asking about arcane stuff before so I figured I'd offer to port the text over to your topic if you want. it's about 3 posts long, though, since I talk about every weapon in the game.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The topic purged so just put it here.

ah, shoot. I don't really want to post a huge bloodborne text post in a DS2 topic, especially since people remarked last time about spoilers. which, yeah, I probably should not have been discussing BB so extensively in that topic either.

if you do end up replaying BB at some point just make a topic to summon me and I'll share the info at that time. any bloodborne topic would have the side effect of summoning me anyway.
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Need more rankings.
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Sorry, blame Persona 5.

Will get a few up before bed.
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BOSS
16. Elana, the Squalid Queen
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/3/3b/SotFS_Elena.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150501011549
SCORE: 206
1 First Place Vote

Metal - 1
Maria - 5
Sorozone - 6
TV - 11
John - 20
Ulti - 21
Axl - 22
Angel - 23
Altma - 27
Robazoid - 33
Tazzy - 37

Metal
Alright. This is what I'm here for. This fight is great, it's a non-stop mix of everything. Crowd control, lock-on, camera rotating, healing, dodging. I think you can also get a status effect. It's a test of everything basically and the best fight in Dark Souls II.

Maria
a probably hated (? let's see where this one lands ?) fight that I think is pretty awesome. I love the frantic feeling of trying to stay one step ahead of this boss and find ways to chop into her massive HP bar while her minions chase you down. "IT'S JUST VELSTADT AGAIN I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY RECYCLED WAHH WAHH" Velstadt is awesome, you babies. fighting Velsdadt a second time while a mage fires spells at you is even more awesome. that's just basic science.

Tazzy
The fight is pretty damn easy if she summons the skeletons, but pretty damn hard if she summons Velstadt. I don’t like that much RNG in my battles.
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AREA
16. No-man's Wharf
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/e/e4/No-Man%27s_Wharf.png/revision/latest?cb=20140513082136
SCORE: 172

Angel - 2
Metal - 5
TV - 10
Ulti - 14
Sorozone - 15
Altma - 18
Robazoid - 20
Axl - 26
Maria - 27
Tazzy - 35

Ulti
I hated this place at first, but came to appreciate it. The fact that you can cheat and fire an arrow at the lamp is hilarious, too.

Maria
Of all the well designed levels in the game, this is just my least favorite to replay through.

Tazzy
Fuck this place. Constant swarms, ambushes, and ranged shenanigans. Add in the annoying Darkdwellers and the final gank on the ship to top things off and this is among the most miserable offerings the franchise has seen.
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haha yeah the arrow strat is pretty amusing.
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BOSS
15. Mytha, the Baneful Queen
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/8/81/SotFS_Mytha.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150501111730
SCORE: 202

Altma - 2
Metal - 8
TV - 14
Angel - 16
Ulti - 18
Maria - 20
Sorozone - 21
Axl - 23
Tazzy - 25
Robazoid - 27
John - 28

Metal
This is like a DPS run if you don't burn the windmill. I didn't, it was pretty fun. Top 10 for me. Really tense and cool design

Ulti
I actually killed her without figuring out the gimmick for the floor

Maria
mytha is one of those bosses that everyone humblebrags about being so easy if you drain the poison pool. if any other blurbs get posted besides mine we will probably see some of this. I dunno, I always found her a little bit challenging. she has a cool design and backstory too.

Tazzy
Honestly, I don’t find her that hard or interesting. I might like her better with the pool if poisoning weren’t so brutal in this game. I always thought Bloodborne had the best poisoning mechanics, so something similar would’ve been neat in that game.
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props to metal and ulti
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it's actually covenant of champions which is even more badass sounding
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AREA
15. Dragon Shrine
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/c/ce/15884662447_de1c1b65a1_o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141225102834
SCORE: 159

Ulti - 2
TV - 5
Sorozone - 6
Maria - 12
Axl - 15
Angel - 21
Robazoid - 21
Tazzy - 21
Altma - 26
Metal - 30

Ulti
Drangleic Castle is good, but it probably should have looked more like this place.

Maria
A fairly epic endgame area which is improved upon even more in the Scholar release. If you wish to claim the Throne you must first prove your mettle here. Without a doubt contains the hardest generic enemies in the base game, in terms of a straight up duel.

Axl
This would rank much higher were it not for its ridiculously bad enemy placement in the SotFS version. The trek to Ancient Dragon is hell.

Angel
If you best the champions they leave in your path the other dragon warriors won't fight you. That's pretty cool honestly.

Tazzy
Probably a bit biased since I had to replay this so many times before I figured Ancient Dragon out. I don’t really think the giants are that fun, and the mace dude has some ridiculous stamina. The other dudes are cool to fight, but it just felt like a gauntlet rather than an actual level.
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yeah this would definitely make the game seem super hard for a new player, probably the the point of feeling unfair. on the other hand at least you can take pride that you kicked a bunch of ass on what is basically the hard mode of an already hard game.
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BOSS
14. The Pursuer
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/9/9a/SotFS_Pursuer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150429032419
SCORE: 184

Angel - 6
TV - 7
Axl - 9
Robazoid - 11
Ulti - 15
Altma - 17
Metal - 18
Tazzy - 22
Maria - 24
John - 26
Sorozone - 29

Ulti
If you use the ballista, you are a coward.)

Tazzy
Essentially shows you how much better strike weapons are in this game. Overall, I think this boss pissed me off a lot my first playthrough because my damage output was so low, but anymore he’s super easy. Still never have beaten the version you see earlier in the level, though.

Maria
there must have been a time when I thought Pursuer was difficult but I honestly can't remember what that was like. I have beyond mastered him at this point. I usually fight him naked on the roof wielding a club that I just bought from melentia
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AREA
14. Shaded Woods
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/5/51/15875407858_5ca3346923_o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150102135230
SCORE: 157

Tazzy - 5
Axl - 10
Ulti - 10
Metal - 11
Angel - 16
Maria - 17
Robazoid - 18
TV - 20
Sorozone - 22
Altma - 28

Tazzy
God, that foggy area is awesome. The rest of the place is pretty solid, and fun to explore, but I think the fog is where this place truly shines. The enemies are just invisible NPCs and your field of vision is already awful, so it’s easy to get turned around. They’re pretty weak, but it’s still frightening when one’s attacking you. It’s like you’re being hunted and toyed with and it’s probably the most interesting section of the main game.

Ulti
I normally despise forest areas where you're meant to get lost, but this place is just done so well. The fog areas especially are just terrifying. Full marks for this place. Well done.

Maria
Similar to the Gutter you can get lost and frustrated and killed a lot if you want to grab every item or if you don't know where to go. Less impressive overall because once you know the trick you just hug the wall and clear it. You can even do this on accident. Whoops. I like the fact that once you get the item to see invisible enemies from Eleum Loyce, the invisible guys here become visible as well. Nice little touch. The second part of the level with the lion guys is also cool, especially because magic doesn't work very well on them. Another example of challenging the player to adapt and not rely on the same playstyle for the whole game (if they were relying on magic or even weapon buffs).
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BOSS
13. Throne Watcher & Throne Defender
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/8/84/SotFS_ThroneWatcherDefender.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150502084520
SCORE: 182

Maria - 2
Sorozone - 10
Angel - 11
TV - 12
Metal - 14
Altma - 15
John - 17
Ulti - 17
Axl - 19
Robazoid - 32
Tazzy - 33

Maria
probably an unpopular choice. complaints about this game usually focus around too many humanoid (and especially armored knight) bosses, as well as too many group battles. by the end of the game people are just tired of this shit. but really I think the watcher and defender both have pretty solid lore and I think the battle is actually fun. and yes, they do have different fighting styles. O&S purists will complain about how the Watcher and Defender are too similar except... they're not. so yeah. I have no idea. anyway, this was by far the hardest fight for my SL1 character. there was no really suitable shield for the battle and I didn't have enough iframes to dodge without near perfect timing. plus with two foes at such a high level in terms of damage, defense, and HP, it meant the fight took a long time. those factors combined mean that it ended up being an incredibly intense battle where I could not make ANY huge mistakes for a very extended period. Throne Watcher set is usually my default Fashion Souls set to put on after I finish this battle, so I end up wearing it through most of the DLC on any given playthrough.

Axl
Poor man's O&S but whatever. I don't think they were meant to be that challenging.

Tazzy
Honestly I just don’t like the way they compliment each other at all. They have a lot of weird, hard to read attacks, and balancing between them in the arena given just annoys me more than anything. I also remember finally getting Watcher finished off, only to be revived, which just pissed me off and made me use summons. Just an extremely negative experience for me.
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AREA
13. Aldia's Keep
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/a/a4/15448175554_d5a0bb67d3_o.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20150102135607
SCORE: 156

Ulti - 8
TV - 9
Sorozone - 10
Altma - 11
Robazoid - 13
Tazzy - 16
Maria - 18
Axl - 20
Angel - 23
Metal - 28

Tazzy
An extremely linear path guarded by strong enemies. I like the lore, but that’s really it.

Maria
A place heavy with lore and awesome visual design. I think in terms of actual level layout it's not among the best, but it's other attributes were good enough to place it up here among the true A+ levels.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

Ulti
If you use the ballista, you are a coward.)

I used the ballista and killed both the boss and my coop partner
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someone shot me and killed me with the ballista one time

since then I always run into the fight by first running toward the ballista and getting the pursuer to destroy them with his attacks
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