Board 8 > SeabassDebeste ranks the Game of Thrones arcs [spoiler]

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SeabassDebeste
01/01/17 10:14:20 PM
#293:


thanks for the bumps

this will happen relatively soon
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SeabassDebeste
01/05/17 8:29:02 PM
#294:


argh
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#295
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SeabassDebeste
01/07/17 8:57:04 PM
#296:


okay last contentless bump for now
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SirBinro
01/09/17 4:40:46 PM
#297:


Don't you forget about me.
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SeabassDebeste
01/11/17 12:59:00 PM
#298:


12. House Stark Retakes Winterfell (Season 6)

Key points: Jon Snow is revived by Melisandre and backed by the Wildlings he let through the Wall. He executes the conspirators in his assassination and abandons his post as Lord Commander. When Sansa Stark arrives at Castle Black - along with a letter from Ramsay Bolton - Jon and Sansa regroup and march on Winterfell. With a badly outnumbered Northerner/Wildling coalition, Jon almost loses to the Boltons - but is saved by Sansa, Littlefinger, and the Knights of the Vale. Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover, and Lyanna Mormont assemble at Winterfell and proclaim Jon King in the North.

There are a lot of holes in the connective tissue here. In this arc, many shortcuts are taken - Melisandre's revival of Jon, Davos for some reason even asking for this blood magic, Sansa inexcusably hiding Littlefinger from Jon, supernatural shooting by Ramsay on Rickon, useless foreshadowing on Ramsay's men abandoning him, a pointless 'karmic' death for Ramsay (Yeah!!! Give us what we want!!!'), ridiculous nearsightedness by Davos regarding Shireen's fate... it's a stunning long list of fairly major miscues in just one arc over the course of one season.

But you know what? Lazy writing doesn't mean bad scenes. Taken individually, much of this arc is spectacular. Wun Wun smashing a dude in Castle Black? Feels good man. Ser Alliser Thorne and 'f***' Olly on a sick gallow rig? Feels good man. Sansa and Jon hugging it out despite never interacting on screen before that? Feels good man. A letter from Ramsay that spurns Jon to action? Feels good man. Lyanna Mormont bringing the motherf***ing boom? Feels good man. Pretty much the greatest battle sequence I've ever seen in a television series, complete with horses colliding, extended tracking shots and people dying all around, a f***ing giant, a shield wall, and a 'single combat' fought with shield and arrows? Feels good man.

But what puts this arc over the top is the coronation. Jon Snow has little to do character-wise this season after executing the mutineers of the Night's Watch - he's really passive, saying hello to Sansa and going through the motions until he reaches a battle. Even there, it's all instinct and very little soul until he rises from that epic smush... and then savagely, dehumanizingly, beats the s*** out of Ramsay.

So the Jon Snow that sits down at the head of Winterfell's Great Hall is one who has finally been spiritually reborn. It's a scene that's been done, but before, and perhaps that imbues it with even greater strength - the child Lyanna Mormont standing and pledging for the King in the North whose name is STARK. A wide-bodied man who is ashamed of having protected House Manderly over the well-being of the North. A Lord who refused the call, but who has been won over by valor and an underdog story. Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding! (Is it technically untrue? Who's keeping score?!) The King in the North. THE KING IN THE NORTH. THE KING IN THE NORTH!
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SeabassDebeste
01/11/17 12:59:03 PM
#299:


Book notes: I like Dolorous Edd acting Dolorous-Edd-y here, and especially Tormund cracking a dick joke - that's the stuff.

We don't know how Jon will be revived in TWOW, and some speculate that he'll be different - possibly different enough that we might not get a POV of him. Suffice it to say that Winterfell will be a lot more complex in the books - with Mance, a full-boil Manderly, and political intrigues brewing. Roose is far more wary of Ramsay in the books, so any circumstances surrounding such a murder would be different.

One of the most spectacular open mysteries of the books that gets lost on the show is the Pink Letter. More on that in a later writeup, but Jon becoming King in the North will be linked to Stannis's fate at Winterfell. Will Stannis win his battle? If so, does Jon march on Winterfell like he planned? Does Jon even become King in the North in the books?


'Winter is here.'
'Well, Father always promised, didn't he?'
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#300
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SirBinro
01/14/17 7:32:04 PM
#301:


Not a big fan of that arc. Agree that there are some nice feel-good moments, but the list of miscues is a long one for a show as good as GoT. Give me a slower, more internally consistent S1 or S3 arc over this one any day.
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SeabassDebeste
01/15/17 8:34:34 PM
#302:


This is actually supposed to be below the Red Wedding arc. I accidentally did the S3 one first. They should realistically swap places.

But yeah, there were enough great scenes here for me to rank it relatively high. This is the highest S6 arc by a good margin I believe.

Hint for #11: Literally exactly what you'd expect.
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SirBinro
01/15/17 8:52:10 PM
#303:


Is it a Wun-Wun pun?
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Johnbobb
01/15/17 11:25:23 PM
#304:


not sure what to make of the hint
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SeabassDebeste
01/16/17 5:34:59 AM
#305:


I'll clarify the hint...

Literally exactly what you'd expect... based on #12 and #13.
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Johnbobb
01/16/17 6:57:40 AM
#306:


Is is the part between the North crumbling and the North taking back their s***?
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SirBinro
01/16/17 8:16:02 AM
#307:


I'm guessing it's the part before. Post-Ned, Pre-Crumble Robb.
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SeabassDebeste
01/17/17 8:47:16 PM
#308:


we'll see soon
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SeabassDebeste
01/18/17 4:00:03 PM
#309:


11. Robb Rides South (Seasons 1-2)

Key points: Eddard Stark is captured by the Lannisters, and his son Robb calls his bannermen to Winterfell. After winning the respect of Greatjon Umber handily, he rides south, meets his mother, passes the Twins... and smashes the forces of Jaime Lannister. He continues to win military victories and eventually falls in love and weds a girl from Volantis.

Basically, Robb Stark is the greatest. His charisma, his composure, his ability to win. That's really at the heart of the ranking of this arc.

I love the way this arc works and the way it represents early Game of Thrones: We see almost none of the actual fighting, but lots of war councils, lots of creeping up, the sounds of violence, and the results. We're not presented with obvious, gaping holes like Sansa's lack of communication or Ramsay managing to hit Rickon from half a mile away. And why? Because Robb wins every fight handily. Dude's just a master of battle tactics.

His cunning in battle is also surprising. Coming into Game of Thrones, the stereotype is that Robb is an idiot. He does fall into a trap with that Essos p****, but he's not some idiot. Tywin is pretty certain that he's about to lead Robb into a trap based on the boy's brashness and inability to 'do what's necessary' - instead, Robb sends a tenth of his force to die as a distraction to get to the bigger target.

The scene around which this entire arc pivots is the original, triumphant cry of KING IN THE NORTH. In terms of any spectacle related to the Stark-Lannister war... that's probably the greatest scene.

Book notes: Much enjoyed the decision to make Robb a POV character, as it keeps him on screen during Season 2. And even so, Robb remains somewhat unknowable - his tactics are laid and battles are won beyond the reach of the camera. Betraying his vows is his own fault, but it's a mistake to call Robb an idiot for it. Tywin and Jaime breaks their vows to King Aerys, and no one calls them out for stupidity.

#stillmyking
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SeabassDebeste
01/18/17 4:05:13 PM
#310:


OKAY.

This tier isn't finished, but we're moving into the Top 10. I'll give the seasons remaining (in chronological order) if anyone's interested in guessing at them. No confirmations though!

Season 1
Season 1
Season 2
Season 2
Season 2
Seasons 3-4
Seasons 3-4
Season 4
Season 4
Season 5

Two of these kind of overlap - pretty sure the less clear 'arc' won't be guessed.

Already ranked:

RAMSAY CUTTING OFF YOUR DICK TIER
50. Brienne and Podrick's Not-So-Excellent Adventures (Seasons 4-5)
49. Daenerys in Qarth (Season 2)
48. Drowning in the Water Gardens (Seasons 5-6)
47. The Great Ranging (Seasons 2-3)
46. Theon Becomes Reek (Seasons 3-5)
45. Sam the Slayer (Seasons 3-5)
44. Steward Jon Snow (Season 1)

WAIF SMACKING YOU IN THE BLIND FACE TIER
43. Sam Reaches the Reach (Season 6)
42. Ramsay Rules Winterfell (Season 6)
41. Cersei Versus the Faith (Season 6)
40. The Lady of Winterfell Returns (Season 5)
39. The Chained Dragon Queen (Seasons 4-5)
38. Tyrion and Jorah Tour Essos (Season 5)
37. The House of Black and White (Seasons 5-6)
36. Tyrion Runs Meereen (Season 6)
35. Rise of the Kraken (Season 6)

OLD NAN MAKING YOU s*** YOUR PANTS TIER
34. All Those That Deny That Are My Foes (Season 2)
33. Renly's Ambitions (Seasons 1-2)
32. Bran's Flight North (Seasons 3-4)
31. The King and the The Kingsroad (Season 1)
30. Robb and Bran Manage Winterfell (Seasons 1-2)

BINGE-WATCHING GAME OF THRONES, BUT WHILE YOU'RE FREEZING AND UNCONSCIOUS TIER
29. The Great Lannister Conspiracy (Season 1)
28. Daenerys Joins the Dosh Khaleen (Seasons 5-6)
27. As High as Honor (Season 1)
26. Return to the Riverlands (Season 6)
25. Bran Becomes the Three-Eyed Raven (Season 6)
24. Arya Chills with the Brotherhood Without Banners (Season 3)

GETTING TOLD YOU KNOW NOTHING, BUT GETTING TO SEE SOME t*** TIER
23. Jon the Wildling (Season 3)
22. The Worst Executed Escort Sidequest Ever (Season 3)
21. Syrio's Training (Season 1)
20. Dragonstone: The Aftermath (Seasons 3-4)
19. Sansa in the Vale (Season 4)
18. A Prisoner in the Red Keep (Seasons 2-3)
17. Watchers on the Wall (Season 4)

THE KING IN THE NORTH TIER
16. Death March to Winterfell (Season 5)
15. Joffrey's Reign of Terror (Seasons 1-4)
14. Tyrion Counts Coppers (Season 3)
13. The North Crumbles (Season 3)
12. House Stark Retakes Winterfell (Season 6)
11. Robb Rides South (Seasons 1-2)
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Johnbobb
01/18/17 6:32:17 PM
#311:


SeabassDebeste posted...
Season 1 - Dany and the Dothraki
Season 1 - Not sure what other season 1 plot wasn't covered. Maybe Dany+Viserys and Dany+Drogo are different plots?
Season 2 - Arya + Jaqen + Tywin
Season 2 - Tyrion and Blackwater

Season 2 - Was Jon meeting Ygritte part of The Great Ranging or Jon the Wildling?
Seasons 3-4 - Dany + Selmy + Unsullied
Seasons 3-4 - can't think of anything that wasn't covered
Season 4 - Oberyn the champion
Season 4 - Arya and Hound's Excellent Adventure
Season 5 - I think this has to be Jon and Hardhome?


almost positive on the italicized ones, the others are a toss up
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SirBinro
01/18/17 10:06:18 PM
#312:


I'm guessing the other S1 one is Tyrion, the other S2 one is Theon (I think Ygritte's intro was covered in Jon the Wildling), and the other S3-4 one is The Tyrells.
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SirBinro
01/24/17 8:26:34 AM
#313:


up
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SeabassDebeste
01/24/17 9:12:57 AM
#314:


i have a writeup ready to go but i just realized that it's actually #9 and not #10

should i post it or save it for after #9 (which might not happen today)
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Johnbobb
01/24/17 10:32:22 AM
#315:


Probably save it till after 10, were not in any hurry
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SeabassDebeste
01/26/17 8:07:38 AM
#316:


10. A Ghost in Harrenhal (Season 2)

Recap: Arya, Gendry, and Hot Pie make their way to the Wall, but Yoren's party is beset by Lannisters. The recruits instead find themselves under the care of the Tickler, Ser Gregor Clegane, and Tywin Lannister. Arya's wits help her to win the favor of Lord Tywin, while her courage wins her the service of Jaqen H'ghar. Arya tasks Jaqen with killing two sadistic members of the Mountain's horde and finally with helping her to escape the castle before the Starks take it.

A.k.a., Arya is f***ing amazing: The Series. Arya and Tywin's scenes are some of the greatest in the show's run, revealing a paternal side to Tywin that ironically goes missing when he addresses his 'ill-formed, spiteful thing' of a son and his daughter still ripe for 'breeding.' Arya is sharp-eyed, cunning, and just a little too bold addressing a clear superior.

And of course, Arya's taste for blood develops further here. The atrocities that the Mountain's people put their prisoners through are horrific, and furthermore, they seem mainly to be doing it for fun. Given the power bestowed to her by this genie of death, of course you want Arya to leverage Jaqen's assassin skills. And it's a pretty damn dirty trick she pulls to ask for so many other people's deaths in order to escape the castle when the chance is provided. But she's not a master strategist - the big picture move is seemingly to kill Tywin, but this never winds up becoming the play.

It's an extraordinarily dreary storyline shot in monotonic grimness. The only things that shine here are the principal actors: Tywin, Arya, and Jaqen. But their quiet charisma somehow manages to be enough to elevate this arc to one of the greatest of the series. A man has no name, just the second most iconic words of the show's run: Valar morghulis.

Book notes: The books stretch out the first piece of this arc dramatically - the parts with Yoren's party questing northward. They're slow and meandering, and for some reason they take up multiple chapters, but they give a great insight into the already-war-torn Riverlands. The show does a really effective job of capturing the devastation while trimming the length, focusing more on Arya and her friends, and the like.

That's also the theme in Harrenhal, largely. Arya's sojourn in Harrenhal in the books is long. And detailed - there are tons of points about how the washer-women are treated, about the one poor girl that gets raped by a hundred Lannister soldiers, the women who bully Arya into doing her work. And then there's the final chapter, in which Arya has to escape from Roose Bolton - full of foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, and loaded to the gills with pure eeriness.

The show gives Arya to Tywin instead of Roose, and I think it's a huge win. The Leech Lord Bolton of the books is practically a vampire, which is awesome in its own right. The show's no-nonsense Roose is more like a Northern Tywin who gets the short end of the plot stick. Having the actual Tywin winds up working better.

What is missing that I miss - Arya's inner monologue. Some of GRRM's psychological insights come from repeated phrases in a character's mind, and none to me is as memorable as Arya's feeling that she's a mere mouse in Harrenhal. It's a beautifully vulnerable sentiment. Yet when she discovers the power of her twisted genie in her Faceless Man, she begins to feel powerful, like a ghost... and then she loses him and is once again a mouse. This sort of empowerment and disempowerment is lost in the show.

The books also see Arya commit her first cold-blooded murder at the end of ACOK. Her escape is formulated personally rather than by leveraging Jaqen, and she uses his coin to distract and kill a guard. I prefer the show's take here by a bit - it smooths out the journey from badass chick to shameless murderer when the executions don't start 'til late-Season 3, after the Red Wedding.

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Johnbobb
01/26/17 8:27:18 AM
#317:


Probably a top 5 storyline for me. It was the arc that made Arya my favorite character from then on
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dowolf
01/27/17 1:00:08 PM
#318:


Yeah, this is one of (possibly the only?) arc I do think is better in the show. Tywin and Arya just work so well together, even though there's a bit of fridge logic involved with "if Tywin knows Arya's highborn, why isn't he making sure not to lose track of her?" (Unless that was addressed, and I'm just forgetting.)
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kevwaffles
01/27/17 3:02:49 PM
#319:


I want to say there was another lie to cover up the lie he didn't believe? There and possibly also in the books with Roose?
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 2:52:42 PM
#320:


I don't think that there was any lie to help with that.

It's not a big issue to me, partially because the scenes are so good, but also because it gets at a human angle for Tywin. A big reason he doesn't try to leverage Arya? She may be one of the only characters in the universe he likes. He despises Tyrion and seems fairly contemptuous of Cersei and Jaime (especially when the latter chooses against taking Casterly Rock).

Tywin in the show is a different character - one that I don't like as much in the books.
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 2:53:01 PM
#321:


9. The Sweep of Slaver's Bay (Seasons 3-4)

Recap: Daenerys reaches the city of Astapor and trades her favorite pet Drogon for an army of Unsullied, resulting in her abolition of slavery in Astapor. She then is beneficiary of Daario Naharis's sellswords company, The Second Sons, which helps Daenerys take the city of Yunkai by its back alleys. Finally, Daenerys incites a rebellion among the slaves in Meereen. Having conquered the three great cities of Slaver's Bay, Daenerys decides to sit the throne of Meereen.

As a physical presence, Daenerys Targaryen is never viscerally enjoyable than in this stretch. Gone are the abominable 'Where is my dragons?!' and bizarre Drogo and weird duck sauce subplots. We begin with one of the great random party-crashings, as Barristan Selmy joins Dany's party. For all the complaints later on about the teleportation of characters, you can see why - Ser Barristan is last seen in late Season 1, dismissed from the Kingsguard. He resurfaces after a full absence in Season 2 to help Daenerys, which makes perfect sense for the length of his journey.

From there, we move right into the negotiations in Astapor. If you had to pick just one Daenerys act, it pretty much has to be this, right? The slavery is absolutely abhorrent to Daenerys, yet as Ser Jorah points out (and I'm sure Ultimate Pragmatist Tywin Lannister would agree) - honor doesn't win wars. Ser Barristan is able to weigh in on the merits of honor, referencing Rhaegar, and then in one of the great quotes, Jorah reminds Dany about her brother: 'Rhaegar fought honorably. Rhaegar fought nobly. And Rhaegar died.' Every single scene here is fraught with the greatest of tension, as you don't know what Dany has up her sleeve, and you realize just how badly the master thinks he's playing her.
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 2:53:58 PM
#322:


And then Dany pulls one of the most cold-blooded good-guy betrayals in Game of Thrones history. The reversal is spectacular - I speak your f***ing language - and Emilia Clarke is a dozen time more impressive speaking High Valyrian than English. 'Dracarys.' It's exhilaratingly evil to betray and slaughter a whole peaceful city, and yet in doing so, Daenerys frees every slave in Astapor, results in zero pillaging and rape due to the Unsullied's nature, and generally loos like a f***ing boss. Hell yeah.

Season 3 represents the beginning of Dany's 'I'm gonna rule like a G' arc, and it's not tired at that point. While it's almost memetic how long her titles are at this point, it's pretty freaking great the first time she makes camp outside of Yunkai, brings in the masters for a parlay, and has Missandei recite a dozen titles. She really starts to look queenly there, and you can see why Daario betrays his company for her. The taking of Yunkai is by far the least impressing, with the whole Mhysa crowdsurfing, but it's pretty great spectacle.

As for the taking of Meereen - you gotta love Daario pissing at its gates and murdering the Meereenese champion like it's nothing. The spectacle of broken chains is awesome when you realize that this is Dany's true claim to the throne - not bloodlines, but justice.

The arc as a whole is a massive payoff to our hopes of Dany being a champion and a suitable protagonist. In Seasons 1 and especially 2, she's something of a designated hero - we're invested in her storyline because it's being told to us. Here, Dany is finally writing her own storyline. No one forces her to take on slavery, but due to her own experiences, the issue is of paramount importance to her. No one teaches her how to handle Astapor and the Unsullied - but like Tywin, she orchestrates and gambles and experiences horrifically bloody success. It's her ability to project power alongside her beauty that wins over Daario, and it's her ingenuity and inspirational leadership that wins Meereen. This is the woman you want to see winning.

Plus t*** and dragons.

Book notes: You can't hide the identity of Barristan, and you can't have a goofball like Strong Belwas. I love what they did here, and honestly I have a tough time seeing it any other way. The show actually improves the spectacle of Astapor because of the dramatic irony - we don't actually know that Dany can understand the masters, making her turn to High Valyrian all the sweeter. I think that the show very capably captures the moral dilemma Dany faces during the purchase of the Unsullied. And Daario doesn't look like a bizarre cartoon, which I also appreciate.
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Johnbobb
01/28/17 3:30:07 PM
#323:


Man after a lackluster S2, S3 built Dany up in just the right way

only for them to have no idea what to do with her for the next 3 seasons.

I'll never forgive the show for building up the Unsullied as one of the greatest armies in the world only for them to be wrecked non-stop in the following seasons.
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kevwaffles
01/28/17 4:16:32 PM
#324:


I can sort of understand it to a certain extent because the Unsullied are trained in offensive tactics and personal protection. They weren't trained for policing/peacekeeping for entire cities because slavers explicitly don't want slaves doing that. But the extent to which the Harpies can just slap on a mask and practically get superpowers was definitely ridiculous.

Note that I still haven't watched S6, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got even worse.

SeabassDebeste posted...
The show actually improves the spectacle of Astapor because of the dramatic irony - we don't actually know that Dany can understand the masters, making her turn to High Valyrian all the sweeter.

Uhh, she still absolutely has that conversation in High Valyrian with Missandei before s*** goes down in the show.

I'm not even sure if the book makes it absolutely clear she's understanding those lines before that point, though being the PoV character it'd be weird if she didn't especially after how they handled Dothraki. Knowing GRRM, though, he probably outright brought up that she knew High Valyrian in the first book whether he thought that Astapor scene through ahead of time or not.

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Anagram
01/28/17 4:18:15 PM
#325:


The Unsullied are second only to the Stormtroopers in being the ultimate invincible army that loses every time that matters.
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 4:25:18 PM
#326:


Johnbobb posted...
Man after a lackluster S2, S3 built Dany up in just the right way

only for them to have no idea what to do with her for the next 3 seasons.

I'll never forgive the show for building up the Unsullied as one of the greatest armies in the world only for them to be wrecked non-stop in the following seasons.

The Unsullied mainly have words backing them up and not feats, though. You know who had feats backing him up? Robb Stark. Game of Thrones can be frustrating because it follows its characters both where they are kicking ass - out on the battlefield, Robb Stark or the Unsullied are amazing - but also in positions to fail (the Unsullied being used as cops, for example).

kevwaffles posted...

Uhh, she still absolutely has that conversation in High Valyrian with Missandei before s*** goes down in the show.

I'm not even sure if the book makes it absolutely clear she's understanding those lines before that point, though being the PoV character it'd be weird if she didn't especially after how they handled Dothraki. Knowing GRRM, though, he probably outright brought up that she knew High Valyrian in the first book whether he thought that Astapor scene through ahead of time or not.

I think I might have missed that! It doesn't come up right away, though, and the slavers definitely don't seem to know it. But yeah, the books make it very clear that Dany understands what's going on.

kevwaffles posted...
I can sort of understand it to a certain extent because the Unsullied are trained in offensive tactics and personal protection. They weren't trained for policing/peacekeeping for entire cities because slavers explicitly don't want slaves doing that. But the extent to which the Harpies can just slap on a mask and practically get superpowers was definitely ridiculous.

Note that I still haven't watched S6, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got even worse.

Very stupid/minor S6 spoilers - S6 reveals who's behind the Sons of the Harpy - the fallen Masters from Astapor and Yunkai. They're funding the resistance, which seems to imply that we're at least dealing with some training.
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kevwaffles
01/28/17 4:45:08 PM
#327:


Don't worry about spoiler tagging minor S6 stuff. I've been coming into this topic fully aware I'd be constantly walking into way more than that. I also knew plenty before of the more major points.

That might make a little bit of sense, except from a logistical standpoint. I mean they had that up and running almost immediately it seemed like.
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 4:54:41 PM
#328:


It feels like it's something a backtrack/shortcut that was invented between Seasons 5 and 6. I think the writers realized after the reaction to the death of Hizdahr + that entire attack in the Fighting Pits that there was never going to be a really strong and convincing explanation for the Sons of the Harpy, so they went with what they could.
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JonThePenguin
01/28/17 5:31:21 PM
#329:


SeabassDebeste posted...
Johnbobb posted...
Man after a lackluster S2, S3 built Dany up in just the right way

only for them to have no idea what to do with her for the next 3 seasons.

I'll never forgive the show for building up the Unsullied as one of the greatest armies in the world only for them to be wrecked non-stop in the following seasons.

The Unsullied mainly have words backing them up and not feats, though. You know who had feats backing him up? Robb Stark. Game of Thrones can be frustrating because it follows its characters both where they are kicking ass - out on the battlefield, Robb Stark or the Unsullied are amazing - but also in positions to fail (the Unsullied being used as cops, for example).

kevwaffles posted...

Uhh, she still absolutely has that conversation in High Valyrian with Missandei before s*** goes down in the show.

I'm not even sure if the book makes it absolutely clear she's understanding those lines before that point, though being the PoV character it'd be weird if she didn't especially after how they handled Dothraki. Knowing GRRM, though, he probably outright brought up that she knew High Valyrian in the first book whether he thought that Astapor scene through ahead of time or not.

I think I might have missed that! It doesn't come up right away, though, and the slavers definitely don't seem to know it. But yeah, the

I always found that part a fun read, just because of how hard the translator works to translate the guy's crass insults into something that won't be offensive.
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kevwaffles
01/28/17 6:25:01 PM
#330:


SeabassDebeste posted...
It feels like it's something a backtrack/shortcut that was invented between Seasons 5 and 6. I think the writers realized after the reaction to the death of Hizdahr + that entire attack in the Fighting Pits that there was never going to be a really strong and convincing explanation for the Sons of the Harpy, so they went with what they could.

Yeah, it definitely strikes me as yet another thing that "won't be that easy", so to speak, in the books. I mean we already know there's bad s*** going down in those cities, so that seems repetitive. And that's assuming it actually isn't Hizdahr there.
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SeabassDebeste
01/28/17 6:33:26 PM
#331:


From all the fan theorizing, the consensus about Meereen is that the Shavepate poisoned the locusts in an attempt to assassinate Dany, but that the Green Grace is the Harpy.

It's possible that the battle of fire and Dany's return will be enough to put Meereen's internal strife to rest from a narrative perspective in the books, though. GRRM introduced thousands of subplots into every location, but I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't have to see them all through to the bitter end - after all, the Tyrell-Lannister alliance winds up quashing a lot of the stuff that Tyrion has to deal with throughout ACOK that the show doesn't always get into.

(Of course... the Tyrells caused a lot of those issues, so that's logistically sounder. Whatever.)
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SeabassDebeste
01/30/17 12:42:04 AM
#332:


oh, and that concludes the penultimate tier

everything else goes in the FINAL TIER


RAMSAY CUTTING OFF YOUR DICK TIER
50. Brienne and Podrick's Not-So-Excellent Adventures (Seasons 4-5)
49. Daenerys in Qarth (Season 2)
48. Drowning in the Water Gardens (Seasons 5-6)
47. The Great Ranging (Seasons 2-3)
46. Theon Becomes Reek (Seasons 3-5)
45. Sam the Slayer (Seasons 3-5)
44. Steward Jon Snow (Season 1)

WAIF SMACKING YOU IN THE BLIND FACE TIER
43. Sam Reaches the Reach (Season 6)
42. Ramsay Rules Winterfell (Season 6)
41. Cersei Versus the Faith (Season 6)
40. The Lady of Winterfell Returns (Season 5)
39. The Chained Dragon Queen (Seasons 4-5)
38. Tyrion and Jorah Tour Essos (Season 5)
37. The House of Black and White (Seasons 5-6)
36. Tyrion Runs Meereen (Season 6)
35. Rise of the Kraken (Season 6)

OLD NAN MAKING YOU s*** YOUR PANTS TIER
34. All Those That Deny That Are My Foes (Season 2)
33. Renly's Ambitions (Seasons 1-2)
32. Bran's Flight North (Seasons 3-4)
31. The King and the The Kingsroad (Season 1)
30. Robb and Bran Manage Winterfell (Seasons 1-2)

BINGE-WATCHING GAME OF THRONES, BUT WHILE YOU'RE FREEZING AND UNCONSCIOUS TIER
29. The Great Lannister Conspiracy (Season 1)
28. Daenerys Joins the Dosh Khaleen (Seasons 5-6)
27. As High as Honor (Season 1)
26. Return to the Riverlands (Season 6)
25. Bran Becomes the Three-Eyed Raven (Season 6)
24. Arya Chills with the Brotherhood Without Banners (Season 3)

GETTING TOLD YOU KNOW NOTHING, BUT GETTING TO SEE SOME t*** TIER
23. Jon the Wildling (Season 3)
22. The Worst Executed Escort Sidequest Ever (Season 3)
21. Syrio's Training (Season 1)
20. Dragonstone: The Aftermath (Seasons 3-4)
19. Sansa in the Vale (Season 4)
18. A Prisoner in the Red Keep (Seasons 2-3)
17. Watchers on the Wall (Season 4)

THE KING IN THE NORTH TIER
16. Death March to Winterfell (Season 5)
15. Joffrey's Reign of Terror (Seasons 1-4)
14. Tyrion Counts Coppers (Season 3)
13. The North Crumbles (Season 3)
12. House Stark Retakes Winterfell (Season 6)
11. Robb Rides South (Seasons 1-2)
10. A Ghost in Harrenhal (Season 2)
9. The Sweep of Slaver's Bay (Seasons 3-4)
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dowolf
01/30/17 10:22:48 AM
#333:


I think my only real "problem" with the arc is that I still think of Missandei as being 9 or whatever, so her being involved in romantic subplots in the show feels so wrong. Though that's more season 5 anyways. Definitely agree that Daario as-written would not work in anything outside of an imagination.

SeabassDebeste posted...

Very stupid/minor S6 spoilers - S6 reveals who's behind the Sons of the Harpy - the fallen Masters from Astapor and Yunkai. They're funding the resistance, which seems to imply that we're at least dealing with some training.

"Some training" shouldn't let you run roughshod over legendary-tier soldiers.
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SeabassDebeste
01/31/17 5:46:15 PM
#334:


daario as written might have worked in an anime! but not in game of thrones.

the unsullied are famous for their phalanx formation against dothraki screamers, not as policemen!
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SirBinro
02/02/17 6:50:52 PM
#335:


up
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SeabassDebeste
02/04/17 4:07:11 AM
#336:


aye

and his father, too.
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#337
Post #337 was unavailable or deleted.
Johnbobb
02/07/17 9:10:02 PM
#338:


M3sterybumper posted...
Still want this saved?

yes
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SeabassDebeste
02/08/17 5:13:00 AM
#339:


taking completely random guesses for #8!
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Johnbobb
02/08/17 8:17:09 AM
#340:


Dany acquires the Unsullied
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SeabassDebeste
02/08/17 8:38:32 AM
#341:


you're trolling me right
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yazzy14
02/08/17 8:40:32 AM
#342:


Something with Bran I'm guessing.

<_<

>_>
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