Board 8 > SeabassDebeste ranks the Game of Thrones arcs [spoiler]

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Johnbobb
02/08/17 8:50:45 AM
#343:


Realistically it's probably one of the few that I couldn't guess when I laid out my 10
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SeabassDebeste
02/09/17 6:32:24 PM
#344:


astute (bump for the weekend)
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JonThePenguin
02/13/17 7:32:53 AM
#345:


bump
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yazzy14
02/14/17 9:48:32 AM
#346:


If two bastards got married would they keep their bastard name and give their kids bastard names? So you end up with a lot of bastard named people who are not, in fact, bastards?

Do you imagine a lot of the people in the towns in Westeros consist of people with the bastard names?
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SeabassDebeste
02/15/17 12:43:43 PM
#347:


8. Beggar Queen, Horse Queen, Dragon Queen (Season 1)

Key points: After a childhood of poverty, Daenerys Targaryen is married to Khal Drogo by her brother Viserys, in a deal to leverage the Dothraki to retake Westeros. Viserys quickly loses favor among the Dothraki and is eventually executed by Drogo. Daenerys becomes pregnant and suffers an assassination attempt from King Robert, which sets off Drogo's rage. Before he can muster his khalasar onto boats, however, Drogo is crippled by infection and rendered comatose by Mirri Maz Duur. His khalasar dissolves and Daenerys's son is slain in the womb. Daenerys creates a funeral pyre and enters it with her favorite wedding gift - and exits with newly hatched dragons.

There is so much going on in Dany's Season 1 storyline. For one thing, it's visually so unique. The North and the Vale are characterized by beautiful greenery, the castles by their stony coldness, King's Landing by its urban hustle and bustle. We're surrounded by varying British accents and grime and generally a sense of 'this is where the story is centered.'

And then we've got Dany's storyline, which takes place almost entirely upon an exotic desert land with strange brown people speaking a foreign language. Dany and Viserys are already visually distinctive with their silver-blond hair. Their link to the action is tenuous until you start really learning the last names, and they're notable for Dany's ethereal sexuality and Viserys's unmatched creeptitude. The Dothraki are an impenetrable lot with impenetrable customs - a Dothraki wedding with fewer than three deaths, of course, is considered a disappointment. Khal Drogo himself is the most magnificently impassive, a feral force that rapes and pillages and scowls and generally intimidates those around him into submission. It's a land of tongues being ripped out, warriors fighting shirtless, and horse hearts being eaten. It's crazy, and it's different, .

This story develops at its own pace, mostly separate from Season 1 in the Seven Kingdoms, yet it strikes beautiful parallels. Things begin to stir as Robert Baratheon's Hand of the King is killed - and shortly thereafter, Dany is wed to Khal Drogo. Lord Eddard moves to the South, and Dany becomes stronger as the bride of the Horse-Lord. The 'Usurper' Robert is assassinated, just as the 'rightful' prince Viserys is executed. As the Starks and Lannisters move into all-out war, Khal Drogo vows to slay sweep Westeros with his Dothraki horde.

The most enduring plot development of the arc, seasons later, of course, comes at the end. Ned Stark and Khal Drogo lie dead. In Westeros, Robb is crowned King in the North - and meanwhile, Dany becomes the Dragon Queen. It's a bittersweet ending marked by rebirth. And it's absolutely thrilling.
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SeabassDebeste
02/15/17 12:43:46 PM
#348:


Season 1 is not Daenerys's personal best arc - that's the sweept of Slaver's Bay - but it's the best arc centered around her. Part of that is that she rises so slowly through it - she begins the series as a sexual object, who slowly accepts Dothraki customs and has to take lessons to survive being drilled by Drogo. The strongest personalities in the first half of the season are Khal Drogo and Viserys, with only Jorah to lend a steady hand to the Khaleesi. They're full of bombast and ridiculous villainy and incompetence ('Viserys couldn't sweep a stable with ten thousand brooms'), and among them, Dany slowly adjusts to incorporate Dothraki identity into her own.

Yet as the season grows, so too does Dany's role. After absorbing and being assimilated into the Dothraki, she begins to impose her own will, applying Doreah's sex-moves on Drogo to become an equal partner. When Viserys dies in a fit of impotent power-lust, Dany instead becomes the one to push for the invasion of Westeros. And at her strongest moment, she puts an end to the wanton rape of the Lhazareen people by Drogo's khalasar. It's a powerful, moral move that truly represents Dany putting herself out there - and arguably, it causes her a lot of issues. This tanks her respect among the high-ranking Dothraki, and Mirri Maz Duur (who is spared at Dany's behest) has a hand in both Drogo and Rhaego's demise. And yeah, the consequences are disastrous, but Dany never strays from that moral path.

Since then, we've seen very little growth from Dany. Season 1 realizes a complete character arc for her. All that's been left for her have been external changes, where Dany's circumstances change rather than she herself changing. For one season though, everything comes together beautifully.

Book notes: Picture-perfect adaptation, with the additional bonus of foreshadowing her fireproofness. The fights are really well visualized here. Jorah is a much more layered character than his book version, to the point where I believed that he was the real POV character in Essos. ADWD gives Dany a lot more self-doubt and development than do Emilia Clarke and Seasons 4-6 of the show, but during the first season, this story - and adaptation - is incredible.
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SirBinro
02/15/17 3:19:36 PM
#349:


SeabassDebeste posted...
'Viserys couldn't sweep a stable with ten thousand brooms'

so good
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Johnbobb
02/15/17 5:01:59 PM
#350:


Dany and the Dothraki easily a top 3 story arc for me. Might actually be my #1
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SeabassDebeste
02/15/17 8:06:20 PM
#351:


It's so good. To me, one minor downside to it - and minor downsided matter in the top tier - is that it's so self-contained. Now that self-containment makes it unique and awesome, but it's so different that I don't have it at the top. After all... it doesn't feature any of my favorite characters
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SeabassDebeste
02/17/17 9:26:42 PM
#352:


one more
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SeabassDebeste
02/23/17 5:40:40 PM
#353:


continues either friday or this weekend!
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SeabassDebeste
02/25/17 9:13:28 PM
#354:


the weekend it is
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Steiner
02/27/17 4:31:43 AM
#355:


which one
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SeabassDebeste
02/27/17 5:18:36 AM
#356:


(checks)

oh man it's a good one
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SeabassDebeste
02/27/17 9:01:37 AM
#357:


7. The Prince of Winterfell (Season 2)

Key points: King Robb Stark dispatches his best friend Theon Greyjoy from the Riverlands to the Iron Islands, so Theon can negotiate with his father Balon. Instead of helping the North, Balon opts to invade it - and Theon, seeking his approval, sides with his father over his 'brother.' Theon drastically overcompensates by taking lightly guarded Winterfell from Bran and Ser Rodrick Cassell. Theon executes some Northmen, takes Bran hostage, and pretends to execute Bran when he escapes. Eventually his men surrender the castle for him - and it winds up aflame.

What a revelation.

Theon Greyjoy has an ignominious beginning to the series. He's visually nearly indistinguishable from Jon and Robb, and he spends most of his time being a plot-insignificant douchebag - making jerk comments, shooting off arrows and getting yelled at by Robb, getting outdone in bed (and very insecurely) by Tyrion. Once you get to know him, he's kind of funny-looking.

Enter Season 2, where he becomes a point-of-view character, and suddenly you realize that... this is all very much intentional and basically an accurate assessment of where Theon is at. And his funny-looking face is perfect for suffering just an absolutely unfair amount of punishment. Like, sure, he's a little handsy and arrogant. Does that mean he deserves to be catfished by his own sister? Hilarious scene, and Theon sells it perfectly. He's puffed up with what the old men of the series refer to as a child's rebellion in Robb's war. But then Balon absolutely s***s on his own son for many circumstances beyond his control. Even when Theon ostensibly rules Winterfell, he can't respect form Yara or Ser Rodrick... or even Bran, who doesn't seem to believe Theon when he tells him that Winterfell is his now.

The revelation? That whether or not he deserves all he gets, it's a joy to watch Theon react to it all. The acting, the dark slapstick, it's perfect.

And he's thoroughly believable. This is one of the absolute great character pieces. Here's a backstabbing, murderous bastard who's never been done wrong by Robb or Rodrick or Bran. His father gives him every reason to hate him, and Theon decides that his best course of action is to betray his best friend - who's made him a lieutenant in his army - in favor of following his father, who told him to raid fishing villages. Theon's identity is constantly in inner conflict, and his journey for validation is immensely destructive - both to the North, making an outsized distant impact on the storyline, and to himself. GRRM abides by William Faulkner's mantra that the only thing worth writing a book about is the 'human heart in conflict with itself.' No other arc in the Game of Thrones TV series so exemplifies this philosophy.
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SeabassDebeste
02/27/17 9:01:41 AM
#358:


It's everything here - writing, acting, and directing. Theon's every scene and dialogue emphasizes how desperately he yearns for approval, how much he wants others to see him the way he sees himself - a prince, or a conquerer, or a noble, or a stud, or a great leader of men. Yet the way others respond to Theon always cuts him down. One specifically notable instance: after a magnificent coup in taking a castle in which 'five hundred men could hold Winterfell against fifty thousand,' Theon calls for reinforcements from his father. His sister is dispatched - and she tells him his accomplishment is worthless. And she's not wrong - holding Winterfell is costly and strategically useless. It's a pure ego move meant to slap his dick on the table and ask his father to admire it - that's Theon for you.

Alfie Allen is incredible as Theon. I've already talked about Theon's uniquely unsettling face that just invites pain. It's a slightly bug-eyed face that winds up exaggerating all of its expressions - it smiles a little too widely and innocently, it twists a little too strongly in anger, it contorts beautifully in frustration. He's not a big man; when he tries to loom tall he actually seems a bit impotent. You can see every doubt and insecurity - and by god there are so many - etched on Theon's face. The curled lip when he tries to get high-and-mighty, the jittery demeanor that comes out so much stronger later as Reek... so good.

I really want to comment on some of the filmmaker's choices here. Everything in S2 Theon's arc is shot through a greyish lens. The Iron Islands look grim and dank. Theon's highest moment there is being reborn and drowned by Aeron Damphair, a positively miserable-seeming experience that Theon himself soaks up, attempting to imbue himself with Ironborn-ness. Winterfell gets darker and darker as it goes on, until it looks like it's dusk when Theon hoists those charred bodies of the miller's boys - an unforgivable act by any standard - above its gates. It's positively miserable when Theon behads Ser Rodrick; it's ridiculously messy, and he requires three swings to get the axe through, a visual signal of Theon's weakness.

The perfect scene to encapsulate all three of these elements: the end to Theon's arc of misery. Rather than surrender himself, Theon rouses his men with a speech. Facing imminent death, Theon's happy to grab his Ironborn identity, to talk big, to die with a bloody sword. The music swells magnificently; Winterfell is as brighter than it's been all season; Theon pumps his fist, spittle flying everywhere; his eyes bulge as he realizes that this is his swan song and that he and his men are going to become legends.

And then he gets smashed on the back of the head by his own subordinate. 'Let's go home.'

Book notes: Reek (the disguised Ramsay Bolton) is excised completely from Season 2 Theon. It's an interesting decision and one that plays out perfectly on screen. The added mystery of 'who the hell burned Winterfell' is awesome as well. Also, Book Theon is a lot more confident in his suaveness. I think that the show is reasonably true to this - the only problem is, we can't literally see things from Theon's POV, so we're much more viscerally aware of how dorky he is.

We lose some of the political maneuvering that Bran is supposed to do, but I think it's a fair trade for the visualization and just how goddamn great this arc is on screen.


I don't talk too much about the Northmen in this writeup. They deserve better, but they are not the reason this arc is up here. It's all Theon. This arc is one of the reasons I wanted to do this project to begin with - Theon is unnotable in Season 1 and kind of a drag starting from Season 3 onward. But for one season, he's perhaps the best part of a show crawling with amazing subplots.
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SeabassDebeste
02/28/17 6:19:11 PM
#359:


well you know what they say

what is dead may never die
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Johnbobb
02/28/17 8:54:10 PM
#360:


Huh, didn't even really think much of that. I do think Theon is a pretty compelling character, and he's in the weird position where you don't know whether you should root for or against him.
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Calintares
03/01/17 2:56:25 AM
#361:


That feeling morphed into fatigue with Ramsay being a villain Sue after about season 4.
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kevwaffles
03/01/17 6:04:16 AM
#362:


Yeah, one thing the book does way better is actually have limits on what Ramsay can do.
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SeabassDebeste
03/01/17 6:11:47 AM
#363:


I'm not really interested in talking about Ramsay, but the issue starts well before Season 4. Season 3's Theon was just a really unfortunate byproduct of the showrunners having to pay Alfie Allen to retain him as a regular. The books' path of eliminating him from any POV is far superior. Ramsay is more indicative of the showrunners' obsession with spectacle and creating rooting interests rather than slow-burn, bubbling, scheming trainwrecks like the book is prepared to show in the North.

Johnbobb posted...
Huh, didn't even really think much of that. I do think Theon is a pretty compelling character, and he's in the weird position where you don't know whether you should root for or against him.

As far as rooting interest goes, I think we're very clearly supposed to root against Theon. He can be really f***ing sympathetic, but if in the end you are what your record says you are, then Theon is an evil motherf***er. His acts of redemption shouldn't wash out that he passed multiple points of no return and, when presented the option to surrender/take the black or die as a murderer, fully attempts to go the non-repentant route.
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DoubleTangicide
03/01/17 9:32:31 AM
#364:


SeabassDebeste posted...
The books' path of eliminating him from any POV is far superior.


100% agree
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profDEADPOOL
03/01/17 9:34:57 AM
#365:


Johnbobb posted...
Huh, didn't even really think much of that. I do think Theon is a pretty compelling character, and he's in the weird position where you don't know whether you should root for or against him.

What sort of person are you.

How can you not see how Theon should be rooted against.

Holy s***.

I mean it is one thing to be sympathetic and understand why he made his choices but rooting for him at all is ridiculously wrong.
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DoubleTangicide
03/01/17 9:35:47 AM
#366:


I'm not rooting for Theon so much as I'm not rooting against him anymore. I just largely feel bad for him now.
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profDEADPOOL
03/01/17 9:42:27 AM
#367:


DoubleTangicide posted...
I'm not rooting for Theon so much as I'm not rooting against him anymore. I just largely feel bad for him now.

Well yes but that is completely different from rooting for him
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Johnbobb
03/01/17 10:01:18 AM
#368:


profDEADPOOL posted...
Johnbobb posted...
Huh, didn't even really think much of that. I do think Theon is a pretty compelling character, and he's in the weird position where you don't know whether you should root for or against him.

What sort of person are you.

How can you not see how Theon should be rooted against.

Holy s***.

I mean it is one thing to be sympathetic and understand why he made his choices but rooting for him at all is ridiculously wrong.

OK maybe I worded that wrong

Not so much rooting for him as being like "OK Jesus Christ he has experienced his punishment and gotten what he deserves tenfold please just stop torturing him"

Like Theon was awful but not nearly as bad as most of the villains on the show so to see him getting what would make you feel bad for f***ing Joffrey made him hard to root against
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profDEADPOOL
03/01/17 10:03:50 AM
#369:


Johnbobb posted...
profDEADPOOL posted...
Johnbobb posted...
Huh, didn't even really think much of that. I do think Theon is a pretty compelling character, and he's in the weird position where you don't know whether you should root for or against him.

What sort of person are you.

How can you not see how Theon should be rooted against.

Holy s***.

I mean it is one thing to be sympathetic and understand why he made his choices but rooting for him at all is ridiculously wrong.

OK maybe I worded that wrong

Not so much rooting for him as being like "OK Jesus Christ he has experienced his punishment and gotten what he deserves tenfold please just stop torturing him"

Like Theon was awful but not nearly as bad as most of the villains on the show so to see him getting what would make you feel bad for f***ing Joffrey made him hard to root against

Yeah that is completely different for rooting for him though in my mind.
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SeabassDebeste
03/01/17 11:03:55 AM
#370:


Ah, it was an unclear statement since you're talking about Theon now as opposed to during the arc in question.

I think GRRM worked hard to give his villains opportunities at redemption. In another 'not as unconventional as you might think' trope for GRRM, that redemption starts by finding someone even less symapthetic than the redeemer character. Locke/Vargo Hoat in the books (the guy who takes Jaime's hand) is scum who has no positive qualities. Theon gets to deal with the monstrous Ramsay. Tyrion doesn't need to be redeemed, but he does operate on the Lannisters' side during the War of Five Kings... but he's placed against Tywin. Who is astronomically less sympathetic in the books, mind you.

As far as wanting Theon to stop being tortured, I didn't really care in Season 3. It's more a case of 'you don't want to witness it,' which is a pretty lame 'tactic' by the showrunners.
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#371
Post #371 was unavailable or deleted.
SeabassDebeste
03/04/17 6:27:45 PM
#372:


more soon
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yazzy14
03/06/17 5:14:06 AM
#373:


Sweet.
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SeabassDebeste
03/07/17 12:54:08 PM
#374:


6. Lord Commander Jon Snow (Season 5)

Recap: After Stannis saves the Watch from Mance Rayder's horde, Stannis offers Jon Snow a spot in his army as Lord of Winterfell. Jon declines and is instead elected Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. His mission: to fortify the Wall for the incoming winter and the White Walkers. One cornerstone angle: to evacuate the Free Folk from beyond the Wall into the Seven Kingdoms, which involves sailing to Hardhome and facing the White Walkers head-on. Jon is eventually assassinated in a mutiny by Alliser Thorne and other brothers of the Watch.

This is it.

Jon's reign as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is magnificent to watch. It takes four full seasons of moping, awkwardness, and pouts. It takes the traditionally most interesting characters being separated from one another or killed off. It takes time, pain, and the sweat and tears of a viewer. It's a certainty that this arc is not as good if Jon is not as miserable to watch in the early seasons - and it might also be the case that it's less prominent if it's ensconced amid a better season. But during what many agree was the worst season - a season of Sand Snakes, c*** merchants, floozy Loras, and Maggy the Frog - Jon Snow shines as the best character of the show and leads one of the best arcs of the series.

Has moping ever been a better default face? We all know that bearing the crown is a terrible weight for any good leader, and this is the logical climax for Jon. He has seen what's out there, and thus, despite the obvious appeal of shedding his bastardry - 'Kneel before me and you will rise as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell' - Jon continues with his brothers and no assurance that he'll be elected Lord Commander.

Part of what makes Season 5 Jon better than Season 6 Jon - aside from the obvious 'he's not basically a walking corpse for most of it' angle - is his interactions (that I've already alluded to) with Stannis. Jon has some decent chemistry with Ygritte and can occasionally crack a smile around Aemon and Sam. But for the most part, he's brooding and solitary and loves to make that pouty face where he stick his chin out. He's trying to be tough for the world and it looks dorky and you kinda hate the insecurity. Stannis, however, is the One True King, and it's genuinely fun to watch Jon earn the respect of the humorless one.

For Jon, being a leader is about putting up or shutting up. 'Kill the boy, Jon Snow,' intones Maester Aemon. 'Kill the boy, and let the man be born.' Early in Season 5 is possibly the season's best scene: faced with a disgusting show of insubordination from Janos Slynt, Jon seizes Slynt and demands Longclaw. The startled look on Ser Alliser's face - the fact that he rises but does not step in the way of his Lord Commander - says it all. This dude is serious. And with that, Jon kills his first defenseless enemy, unwittingly avenging Ned Stark... and earns a nod from King Stannis.

The second instance of 'put up or shut up' is, of course, the trip to Hardhome. Killing Mance Rayder loses Stannis the support of the Free Folk, effectively dooming his campaign for Winterfell. Jon manages to curry some wildling favor by sparing Mance from burning, but in order to regain all of it, he has to show he's willing to be one of them. It's an incredibly simple demand and one that soaks up the middle part of the season and HOLY s*** THAT BATTLE. Everyone knows how great the massacre of Hardhome is.
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SeabassDebeste
03/07/17 12:54:35 PM
#375:


Past the technical/level, I think, part of what makes that assault so good is that it's completely unexpected. We go there with twenty minutes left in the episode. Most of the conflict of the storyline seems to come from the Lord of Bones (who gets all his skulls unceremoniously beaten in by Tormund in a hilarious scene) and from the skepticism of the Free Folk. Karsi is introduced as someone who might be a STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER ally who might potentially raise some issues. Nothing seems to be going overwhelmingly wrong. And then Karsi says that she'll see her kids soon, and you know s***'s about to hit the fan, and then there comes the f***ing horde. Madness, slaughter, Longclaw, jubilation, necromancy... silence.

This might look like stretching for praise, but one of the scenes that kind of encapsulates what I love about this arc is the final scene right before Jon gets stabbed. He's just sitting in his office - dark, cold, and lonely - reading letter after letter of rejection. (See the book notes for more of my love of logistics.) Jon Snow has executed his biggest detractor and saved thousands of Free Folk - and here he is, friendless and unprotected, still unable to gain the notice of the people he's trying to protect. And it's crushing how excited he gets to see his Uncle Benjen. It's a cross, because of course it is - For the Watch. It's a brutal, unfair end to a short, radical reign. And there spreads his blood.

(Then we're left to the devilishly sexy Red Woman. 'You know nothing, Jon Snow.')

Book notes: Holy s***, this arc is f***ing amazing in the books. Loving S5 Jon as much as I did, I had no clue that his book counterpart would have so much more - and superior - content.

There are Karstark power plays and marriages to the Magnar of Thenn. There's constant worrying about food as Jon trades wood to Braavos and takes loans from Tycho Nestoris. There's a process of resettling the Free Folk in the land known as Brandon's Gift. There's recruiting and training of new brothers of the Watch. There's the secret aiding of Stannis with the clansmen as Jon advises him. There's Mance Rayder, alive, and performing major shenanigans in Winterfell. There's massive delegation of friends and coworkers to other castles as the Night's Watch again extends beyond Castle Black. There's a sexy-ass Wildling Princess who wants the D (along with Melisandre). And there's the thunderous, earth-shaking Pink Letter, complete with giant wrecking Baratheon men. And of course... there's a massive cliffhanger that has been left hanging for six years and will take probably eight to resolve, because f*** you, George R. R. Martin.

Stannis is massively enjoyable on screen at Castle Black, but in the books he makes tons of awesome cracks, such as refusing to suffer an abomination born to Craster and his daughter Gilly - 'This is not King's Landing.'

One detail that the books emphasize Jon is responsible for: sending his friends away. It's

Also, let's not pretend that the books' Alliser Thorne wouldn't have participated in the mutiny had he been there.

Here's Hardhome in the books, a chapter ending that deserves special attention: Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water... Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins.


This is another one of the arcs that made me want to do this list. I hated Jon so much during Seasons 1 and 2, and Season 3 only warmed me up on him very slightly. Yet through persistence and attrition, he winds up claiming one of the show's GOAT runs in Season 5. Worth it.
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DoubleTangicide
03/07/17 1:09:20 PM
#376:


I absolutely love how they took a one sentence letter from the book and turned it into one of the best battles ever done in the show
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SeabassDebeste
03/07/17 2:19:58 PM
#377:


yeah, one of the GOAT show adaptations right there.
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yazzy14
03/08/17 4:25:26 AM
#378:


Agreed. And in case I haven't mentioned it, I love reading all your writeups, so thank you for them.
I finally finished watching all of Game of Thrones and now I'm going back and reading the books again. So good.
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SeabassDebeste
03/09/17 6:06:05 PM
#379:


thanks for the kind words!

i've only seen the show and read the books through once beginning to end, but i've gotten a lot of mileage out of discussing them and reading about them
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SeabassDebeste
03/11/17 1:15:13 PM
#380:


okay open season on guessing for #5
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SeabassDebeste
03/12/17 9:04:38 PM
#381:


or not. writeup hopefully tomorrow
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SirBinro
03/13/17 6:30:15 AM
#382:


Oberyn?
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SeabassDebeste
03/13/17 9:30:03 AM
#383:


5. Into the Lion's Den (Season 1)

Key points: Eddard Stark joins King Robert Baratheon as Hand of the King, headed to King's Landing. Intrigues abound, with Queen Cersei, Littlefinger, Varys, and Ser Jaime all providing obstacles. He investigates the murder of Jon Arryn, observes a tournament, attempts to be a father to his daughters, and eventually infers the truth about Robert's heirs. Ned warns Cersei to take her children and leave, but King Robert dies, and Ned is captured by Cersei - and executed by Joffrey.

Ned is the OG of the show. This is the infamous beginning to the series that punks so many. It's told like a classic tale where you think Ned is the hero - he captures much of the screen time; he drives much of the plot; he has a loving family; he uncovers mysteries; he's a huge badass. He also hasn't taken action in fifty-three episodes and counting.

And yet, there are so many hints before Ned actually goes down that he might not be as heroic as we hope. Aside from the fact that he has a bunch of heirs who are at an age where they can actually do stuff, Ned winds up killing a man and dismissing his thoughts. He kills his daughter's innocent direwolf. He duels the finest knight in the land to what appears to be a standstill and then loses by getting stabbed in the back by a bystanding soldier. He lies to his friend on his damn deathbed.

This arc is the legacy of the show. It's through Ned's eyes that we first meet the conniving Littlefinger and the inscrutable Varys. It's through their b****iness to Ned that we get to know the filthy, incestuous Lannisters. And of course, it's with Ned's compassion that we view this miserable king whose body is decaying as much as his court. Ned is one of the characters with the most charismatic gravitas of the show's run - Joffrey, stronger than Renly or Stannis, stronger than King Robert himself (barring one huge scene), stronger than Balon Greyjoy, and stronger than his son. He's a stronger character than all of the contenders in the damn War of the Five Kings.
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SeabassDebeste
03/13/17 9:32:19 AM
#384:


But you already know that, so let's just rattle off my favorite Season 1 King's Landing scenes.

* 'Stop this madness IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING!' That whole jousting tournament is awesome, but the best moment is probably when King Robert stops the first Cleganebowl dead in its tracks. Given what we learn about the Mountain (and the fact that he's a lackey of the Lannisters and not Robert), this is insane. One of the few remnants we see of how great Robert once was.

* Ned and Jaime's duel is one of the great early action scenes. It's short, the outcome is meaningless, and it's super-fun. The fact that it ends with a spear through the leg is so Game of Thrones.

* Here's one that doesn't get talked about nearly enough: Ned being a great dad to Arya. He does not want his little girl going to war, but she's clearly suffering being forced into the girly-girl roles. So Ned reaches out to the First Sword of Braavos and has her train in water dancing. The problem? When he watches her, the camera zooms in on his eyes... and you can hear the sounds of battle and mayhem. There's an argument to be made that Ned is a victim of PTSD, and this is one of the best visual clues for that.

* Ned sitting on the Iron Throne is probably my favorite Ned scene. It's the only time we see anything resembling the famous depiction on the posters. His declamation of Ser Gregor Clegane sends chills down my spine every time. The show also adds a f***ing throw-down-the-gauntlet jab: 'Send a raven to Casterly Rock. Inform Tywin Lannister he has been summoned to court to answer for the crimes of his bannermen. He will arrive within the fortnight or be labeled an enemy of the realm.'

* The confrontation with Cersei in the courtyard might be the defining dialogue exchange of the series. Cersei's withering, pitying look, Ned's unshakable conflict between justice and mercy.

Cersei: You should have taken the realm for yourself. Jaime told me about the day King's Landing fell. He was sitting on the Iron Throne and you madeh im give it up. All you needed to do was climb the steps yourself. Such a sad mistake.
Ned: I've made many mistakes in my life, but that wasn't one of them.
Cersei: Oh, but it was. When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.


* That climactic massacre in the Throne Room. The image of Ned arriving with the Gold Cloaks, only to find Joffrey seated upon the Iron Throne is unforgettable. Incredible staging. And then the Gold Cloaks turn on him, putting an end to his adventures in King's Landing.

* The execution at Baelor is amazing, and the added touch of Ned imploring Yoren to save Arya is a beautiful touch.

Season 1 revolves entirely around this arc, and it's only because it's so damn good that the season works.
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SeabassDebeste
03/13/17 9:32:23 AM
#385:


Book notes: The biggest thing the show loses from Ned's internal monologue is of course Ned's memories of the Tower of Joy and the veiled hints that R+L=J. Many have commented on the beauty that characterizes his mythic showdown with Sers Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and Oswell Whent. You can see Ned's influence in all his children; Bran remembers so clearly that Arthur Dayne was the greatest knight that Ned ever knew, and that he would have killed Ned if not for Howland Reed... and that this always made Ned sad.

It's impossible for me not to picture Eddard Stark as Sean Bean, but the books' version of Ned is only in his mid-thirties. It's kind of an interesting thought experiment on who would have made a truer actor for the part, but even the books' Ned seems old, with the wisdom of a lifetime upon him. The addition of the show's Ned hearing the sounds battle while watching Arya is very true to the books' Ned, who has been theorized to have PTSD as well.

One very slight alteration to the show dialogue that I miss from the books: when describing the throne, Cersei misses the line, 'It was there for the taking.' The show often goes less poetic and more vernacular when adapting dialogue. It's sad when I've read the books first, but of course, the directly translated lines often seem cheesy as hell to me (Tyrion's line about making insults your armor or whatever). Hard to fault them for this very minor change.

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yazzy14
03/13/17 10:02:29 AM
#386:


Nice. I was trying to piece together what could be left and not having much success. :)

Season 2 - Tyrion and Blackwater (I guess #1)
Season 3-4 - Hound and Arya (I guess #2)
Season 4 - Tyrion Re-imprisoned. (I guess #3)
Season 4 - ???
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SeabassDebeste
03/13/17 10:09:44 AM
#387:


There's a reason no one can guess at least one of the arcs remaining - I highly doubt many people would classify it as one, and it has massive overlap with other arcs.
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SirBinro
03/13/17 6:43:55 PM
#388:


Huh, for some reason I thought you had lumped that arc in with one of the other S1 ones. Glad I was wrong, because Ned's arc is amazing.
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Johnbobb
03/13/17 6:46:23 PM
#389:


SirBinro posted...
Huh, for some reason I thought you had lumped that arc in with one of the other S1 ones. Glad I was wrong, because Ned's arc is amazing.

Yeah I thought the same thing
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SeabassDebeste
03/13/17 7:38:51 PM
#390:


I did notice that neither of you guessed Ned in King's Landing! I did cover Arya, Sansa (I think?), and the Lannisters for S1 so it's not hard to see why this got overlooked.
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ClyTheCool
03/14/17 12:21:18 AM
#391:


Not completely sure what's been covered as I only keep a cursory watch on this topic but


Tyrion rules as Hand of the King / Battle of the Blackwater


Tyrion as a prisoner / on trial / patricide

The Red Viper comes to town


I think Tyion is coming up for sure
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yazzy14
03/14/17 7:09:43 AM
#392:


Yeah, lots of Tyrion. Worth it!
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