Lurker > adjl

MartianManchild posted...

Looks like it isnt just some vocal minority.

What reason do you have to believe they're a majority?

MartianManchild posted...

According to adjl you have to have the same political beliefs as him to be a good protester and not a terrorist.

adjl posted...

burning down cities to convince police to stop murdering black people is also terrorism.

Not much for reading, are you?

The_Viscount posted...

jfc, you heard it here, folks -- the guy who calls people burning down buildings (some with cops right in them, who were blocked from getting out) "protestors" calls people parking their trucks in protest "terrorists." I mean, jfc.

Why do you insist on claiming that I've said things I have never said? Is your desperate addiction to whataboutism so uncontrollable that you feel the need to make up outright lies to feed it? Because you do this a lot and you have never once been able to rise to my challenge of citing the things you claim I have said.

And as much as you want to dismiss it as "just parking a truck," the context you cherrypicked that quote from involved parking trucks across multiple major roads for the sake of engineering a supply crisis to force political change. Put that context back in, and yes, that is absolutely terrorism. Hell, that's an act of war. It's called a siege, and it's been a pretty common strategy for attacking armies to use for about as long as defensive structures have been a thing.

JimBeamMeUp posted...

You misspelled "protest" by several words.

No, I did not. This is not an attempt to call attention to an issue and make their voices known. This is an attempt to coerce political change by hurting as many people as they can, including disrupting commerce and logistics (the fundamental basis of the convoy was "we're not going to deliver your food anymore if you don't give us what you want," which didn't come to fruition because this is such a tiny minority of truckers), torturing everyone within earshot, and physically assaulting people that disagree with them. By definition, that is terrorism.

And before you say it, yes, burning down cities to convince police to stop murdering black people is also terrorism. That was not, however, something that the vast majority of BLM protesters participated in, nor was it in any way the core goal of the protests. I won't go so far as to say that none of the people being violent were actually protesting, but those that weren't just troublemakers taking advantage of the chaos of large crowds to cause trouble (or false flags, of which there were several documented instances) were a tiny fringe minority that do not represent the movement as a whole. By contrast, while I'm happy to accept the claim that most of the protesters here are not Nazis (though the organizers are, which calls that into question) and aren't pooping on people's lawns, the fact that the protest is designed to coerce change by engineering a logistical crisis means it is fundamentally terrorism. That means everyone participating in it is a terrorist. That's the key difference between this and BLM.

Unbridled9 posted...

Hell, you've got people here accusing ME of being a nazi sympathizer because I value freedom of speech extremely highly. I fully get that people will say disgusting things with it, but I think they should have the right to say it.

The thing is, there's a ton of middle ground between "it's legal for you to say these things" and "I'm not going to do anything to challenge you if you say these things." There are countless ways to shut down people that are saying disgusting things that don't involve throwing them in jail. Ignoring white supremacists in action and saying things like "everything counts as white supremacy these days" is the opposite of that.

Unbridled9 posted...

Especially since the banning of this sort of thing can easily be a slippery slope. Who gets to define what speech is and isn't allowed?

Most countries that aren't the US (including Canada) have some sort of laws establishing hate speech as an exception to freedom of expression, but as much as Americans love to whine about "slippery slopes," it's pretty rarely a problem. The laws are usually very clearly defined (in Canada's case, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms outlines 14 classes upon which it's illegal to discriminate against people, and something only counts as hate speech if it falls into one of those) and are generally only applied in particularly egregious cases.

Unbridled9 posted...

What happens when they define something YOU advocate for as 'hate speech'?

Then I reconsider why I'm advocating for it, and if I decide that it's something that does need to be said, I advocate for that definition to be reconsidered. If there's an argument to be made, make it. Defend the speech whose freedom is under attack at a personal level, not by falling back on a lazy "you shouldn't attack this because no speech should be attacked."

Unbridled9 posted...

What even qualifies as it anymore? It feels like I could say 'I like tacos' and get accused of appropriating Mexican culture and white supremacy.

Not outside of the most absurd tumblr circles. This kind of hyperbolic persecution complex really isn't doing your point any favours, I'm afraid.

KodyKeir posted...

There are a couple of people on twitter that are looking up the ownership of the trucks involved and publicly naming and shaming their corporate owners and affiliates. I could see the corporate owners declaring the trucks "stolen" and in need of recovery.

There's a whole site dedicated to doing so. Most companies have responded with either "The employee responsible has been fired and ordered to return their truck" or "They're an independent owner-operator that's put our logo on their truck, so even though we disagree with them, there's not much we can do." At least one got mad at the site, presumably because it's owned by somebody that agrees with the protests, but that's to be expected.

FatalAccident posted...

Seems silly to have Nintendo direct when theres Pokmon day 2 weeks later might as well just bundle it all in one

This one was ~40 minutes long, and I'd expect another 20-30 minutes of Pokemon-related content. Bundling them together would have pushed the limits of people's attention, especially those that aren't really interested in Pokemon.

JimBeamMeUp posted...

If a big rig locks it's airbrakes, it's not going anywhere.

There are ways to remove vehicles that don't involve towing them. Cutting torches and dump trucks come to mind, in a pinch. Of course, you can't really use them afterwards, but that's why you generally shouldn't build barricades out of objects that your livelihood depends on.

JimBeamMeUp posted...

And just like in Canada, the wreckers know that those trucks are their business.

You're grossly overestimating how much of the industry has sided with these idiots. Most companies have actively distanced themselves from it, including firing any of their employees that are involved. Removing trucks that are involved in literal terrorist attacks generally isn't going to hurt their ability to be hired by anyone except whichever operator owns the truck in question, who should really be in jail for being a terrorist and therefore isn't exactly commercially significant.

Even on the off chance they do end up ever working again, a trucker would have to be exceptionally stupid to refuse a tow that they need just because they're butthurt that the company in question towed their truck before. That would cost them an enormous amount of potential work time, and probably whatever contract they had because of how much company time they're wasting.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Maybe Nintendo is switching to a news drop ~8 month out style, since that's what they did with Metroid Dread as well. Nothing, and then BAM, announcement, and "oh yeah, it's coming this year."

Honestly, I kind of like that approach better than "here's a concept, it's probably coming some time next year but maybe not because we've really just started and we don't know how production will go." It makes delays less likely, gives people less time to hype themselves up to the point of inevitable disappointment (they will anyway, but at least 6-8 months of that is easier to recover from than 2-3 years), and discourages crunch because deadlines can be based on project progress instead of pressure from the public (and shareholders) to meet the date they were promised.

It still fundamentally misrepresents the issue and continues to reflect TC's tenuous grasp on reality, but at least it's an entertaining meme.

Revelation34 posted...

I guess the most annoying games were where unlockables are tied behind achievements.

That really depends on the nature of the game. Unless something that's necessary to progress is tied behind a difficult achievement, that's generally not going to be a problem. Cosmetic-type stuff is fine to gate behind special tasks, and rogueli(k/t)es like Risk of Rain that gate certain item drops behind achievements (often achievements that would be easier if that item were available) increase replayability by doing so because they give the player an incentive to try different things each run.

The_Viscount posted...

I mean, who the fuck is going to get outraged over this? The bigger thing is a 18 y/o marrying a 16 y/o, which is a little fucking crazy.

This.

The_Viscount posted...

Among other things, normalizing the usage can make it even more widespread.

But that doesn't normalize the usage. It just makes it less dangerous.

This isn't something you need to speak in hypothetical terms about. There are plenty of large-scale harm reduction initiatives that you can draw data from to inform your beliefs. Harm reduction works. Whether you feel that's an intuitive result or not, that is the reality of the situation. Overwhelmingly, safe injection sites have been found to improve interest in addictions treatment and reduce overall drug use and addiction rates, on top of making the ongoing drug use that still happens safer.

Now, are needle exchanges and the like (which would encompass this) effective harm reduction measures? That's more debatable. Safe injection/overdose prevention sites (which tend to include needle exchanges) are the gold standard, but large swaths of America would have an aneurysm if efforts were made to establish those en masse because they get off on druggies dying.

The_Viscount posted...

Or, you know, you could try doing something productive like putting people through rehab. Just a thought there, buddy.

Why not both? Rehab's hardly perfect, after all, and there's generally a significant period of time between an addiction becoming harmful and the experience of addiction progressing to the point where rehab is going to work. Might as well reduce the risk associated with those periods instead of clinging to the fantasy that forcing people into rehab will fix all of their addiction-related problems.

How exactly does "now you can do heroin without worrying about AIDS" "pay and encourage people to get addicted to drugs"? From where I stand, that's generally just going to mean you've got a similar number of heroin addicts, but fewer with HIV.

Protip: The government's already paying for addicts, whether you like it or not. Might as well allocate that money in a way that will generally improve their health and social outcomes and therefore probably actually be cheaper, rather than getting hung up on some psychopathic desire to watch them suffer for their mistakes.

Amuseum posted...

all you have to give up is altering your DNA

Literally impossible to do from RNA without reverse transcriptase, which the vaccines do not contain. mRNA acts at the translation level, without causing any permanent changes to the cell's genome.

Incidentally, viruses do exactly the same thing (aside from retroviruses like HIV, which do possess reverse transcriptase and can write their genetic information into the host's DNA).

My favourite is "the MSM won't show you the real convoy protests!" They've been covering the convoys for like a month straight. Like, that's not even up for debate. You can find that coverage on literally any MSM news site. What the MSM doesn't do is laud the protesters as heroes at every possible turn, mostly because that would be pretty awful, biased journalism even without considering given how many Nazi flags that involves cropping out.

RoboXgp89 posted...

but the story is about clean needles as well

"We should provide kits that include clean needles and other drug paraphernalia that will be safer for users than whatever they're getting their hands on."
"Biden's giving free crack pipes to children!"

Yeah, I might have to pick up MK8. I've held off on it because I've still got the WiiU version, but another 48 tracks is a pretty big deal, especially if I can arrange an optimized family plan for NSO+ (I think I might actually know 7 other people with Switches now) and get it basically for free (if we neglect the initial NSO cost). As I expected, NSO+ is going to become a better deal as they add more DLC's into it, as much as the initial offer was pretty stupid.

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

Like look, I'm circumcised, but if I ever have a son I am not sure if I will have him have the procedure himself unless it is something he chooses. It is literally a third-world country procedure that the majority of men only have in America, Israel, and most of Africa. People in America bitch about female circumcision and call it "female genital mutilation" when the countries that do the most female circumcisions are the same ones that do male circumcision other than Canada, America, and Israel.

Thanks, Kellogg's.

If a seatbelt causes you significant injury, that generally means the seatbelt was the only thing keeping you from being thrown through the windshield. That's like pointing out that head injury rates increased among miners when helmets became mandatory (an actual criticism from mining companies that didn't want to have to provide their miners with PPE): you only get counted as "injured" if you survive.

Harm reduction is generally a much better idea than criminalization. People are going to use drugs regardless of what you do. Might as well keep them from ending up dead for it.

I wouldn't eat the dough at the expense of your cookie yield, since cookies are generally better than the dough, but eating what you scrape out of the bowl before washing it is perfectly reasonable. That usually isn't enough to make a cookie.

SunWuKung420 posted...

If there's one thing I've learned from the history of oppression, is that in almost every instance the person telling you who your enemy is, is actually the enemy.

What if person 1 tells you person 2 is your enemy, but person 2 tells you person 1 is your enemy? You know, as happens in literally every conflict because that's how conflict works?

Heck, you're trying to tell us who our enemy is. Does that make you the enemy? Am I the enemy because I've pointed that out? Am I a super-enemy because I've pointed out that I'm the enemy? Or does that double negative cancel out and turn me into the hero this world needs?

BEERandWEED posted...

This is what violently assaulted looks like.

https://www.google.com/search?q=beat+up+face

So protesters assaulting random people is only a problem if those people end up severely injured?

Dude, just stop. These are bad people. I'm perfectly willing to believe that not all of them are, but a significant number are, and trying to dismiss examples of that makes you a bad person too. Changing your opinion should not be seen as the greater evil than defending people who assault innocent passers-by.

Was not expecting XC3. Am very happy about XC3. I'm a little disappointed they're moving on without revisiting X, since there was very obviously an X-2 planned, but I'm also very interested in where they're going to take 1 and 2 together. A September release is super surprising, given this is the first announcement of the game, but I fully expect that to be delayed.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

maybe their parents didn't want to mutilate their child

I think you read TC's post as though he said the opposite of what he really said.

There was a point when I sympathized with people that were afraid of the vaccines, but at this point, it's just people that are refusing to learn, rather than people who have genuine difficulty understanding. That's not worth sympathizing with. That's worth crushing.

That'll be more like diving into coarse gravel: Slightly more give, but still very much not fluid enough to move out of your way.

Indeed they are, and that does warrant mention.

Dikitain posted...

Sure, I understand that. But for me gameplay is fun, and rewards are the reason I play a game. If all I cared about was the story, I would rather read a summary or watch a Let's Play. Basically what I did with Resident Evil 6 because there was no way in hell I was subjecting myself to that game's frustrations after 5.

I could see people not liking trying the same section of a game 10-20 times, training yourself to be good enough to get through it. However, I think the feeling of actually getting through a tough section in a game far outweighs the frustrations you felt getting there. It is the reason retro games are so popular still, just aren't as many modern games that let you have that feeling anymore.

That's all well and good, but that just means you find it unsatisfying to progress through games that lack challenge, not that playing on easy is "cheating." As I said, some people find difficulty fun. Some people don't. Neither is any more or less legitimate than the other; people should just play their (single-player) games however they most enjoy them.

dioxxys posted...

Not really if you really think about it.

The developers are intimate with their games systems and understand what would make their own game harder or easier. Leaving a bunch of sliders to the player to determine their own difficulty is worse off because that assumes that the player is familiar enough with the game systems in the first place. And if the player is familiar with those game's systems, then they probably didn't need to make it easier in the first place.

On the flip side, different players have different playstyles and strengths, and having multiple adjustable variables lets them tailor the difficulty to produce the most enjoyable experience for them, rather than being stuck with pre-designed difficulty settings where certain aspects are more frustrating than enjoyable. That's not to say cohesive, well-designed difficulty settings are inherently worse than open-ended, customizable ones, but both approaches certainly have merits.

Collat posted...

90% vaccination rate is pretty high though. Higher than the nation's average. They might be smarter than you are giving them credit for.

I expect that's pretty comparable to other fields where vaccination was destined to become required. Nationally, we're at 83.7% of eligible people (5+) vaccinated, so that's not THAT much higher (though that's nearly a 40% reduction in the number of unvaccinated people, because augmenting returns), and the writing has been on the wall for a very long time as far as requiring vaccines to enter the country goes.

Early access chicken? Isn't that just an egg?

MartianManchild posted...

Canadian truckers want to be able to go back into their own country without restrictions. This is a basic right and freedom.

It's not, though. Even pre-pandemic, there are countless situations in which a Canadian citizen would not be able to return to the country without facing certain restrictions, including every other public health crisis where those returning from high-risk countries were required to quarantine (hence there were like two cases of Ebola on US soil during the 2014 epidemic instead of a number that would have put the public at risk). That's also not a privilege that any other Canadian has had for the entire duration of the pandemic: Prior to vaccines becoming widespread enough to create special exceptions for vaccinated people, everyone entering the country had to have a recent (<72 hours prior) PCR test result and quarantine for 14 days. Anyone without a test and/or without a suitable quarantine plan was required to stay in a designated hotel until they got a negative test result or for the full 14 days.

Truckers have had a special exemption from that requirement (an exemption which I know for a fact would have caused an outbreak here if border screening officers hadn't caught it) because it was felt to be too disruptive to enforce it for them, but now that the vast majority are vaccinated, that's no longer the case and that special privilege is being taken away. That's what these truckers are so butthurt about: No longer being treated like they're special and needing to follow the rules that apply to everyone else. I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for that.

Heck, for all the whining about "vaccine passports," citizens are already required to present actual passports to get into the country without extra screening or paperwork. Nothing about this concept is unusual; the country has the right to control its borders at any time, let along during the greatest public health crisis in a century.

In Canada.

Dikitain posted...

I always felt like plot and/or story was the reward for getting through difficult challenges, so easy mode feels like cheating.

This mentality has always seemed pretty silly to me. People play games to have fun. That fun - story included - isn't something that has to be "earned" or treated as a "reward." It's the fundamental point of the activity. For some, overcoming those challenges is part of that fun, but that's no more or less legitimate than people who have more fun mindlessly button mashing their way through the story. The only person you can "cheat" in a single-player game is yourself.

Yeah, maybe don't rely on articles from November to inform you about issues that arose in January. It's not the best look.

Yep. It's a thoroughly useless protest at every level, even without considering how fundamentally stupid the cause is.

HelIWithoutSin posted...

Canadian tow trucks look weird.

Canadian tow trucks look like pretty much any other tow truck. There's a very good chance somebody just took a picture of some tractors that participated in the protest and added that caption in the hopes that nobody would notice the difference and figure out that they were lying.

streamofthesky posted...

I'd honestly rather have the series stay dead than have Sony potentially release an awful new title under the name or "remaster" the old games and now all of a sudden characters like Jeane or Sheena are "problematic".

Preferring that a series never sees a new game than sees a new game released that you don't like is just petty and selfish.

MartianManchild posted...

Morals over money, adjl. I guess thats just something some liberals dont understand.

There are few things more immoral than letting your family starve because you felt the need to throw a temper tantrum.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

I could live with Sony acquiring Capcom and/or Konami and correcting their course.

Capcom's generally been pretty good lately. For a while, they were one of the worst offenders for DLC and the like, but they've put out some excellent games in the last few years while avoiding the worst of the corporate greed the industry has been displaying lately. I wouldn't say they need too much course-correcting.

Konami, on the other hand, is indeed a steaming pile of garbage. I'd love to see them devoured by somebody that's interested in using their IP's to actually make games.

Gaawa_chan posted...

I don't care about other people's difficulty choices, true, and which level I prefer depends on each game. I think difficulty SLIDERS where you can change individual aspects of the game are better than preset modes, though; Xenoblade Chronicles 2's sliders were something I appreciated a lot in that game, and I think that slider systems to customize challenge to suit you just makes sense.

Refresh my memory, how did XC2's sliders work? I think those might have been a NG+ thing or something that got patched in after I finished the game, since I vaguely recall knowing about them, but I don't remember actually using them.

I do like sliders in general, though. Kid Icarus: Uprising was great in that regard, though it got a little frustrating having the Intensity drop by so much with every death. I also appreciate Sakurai taking the same approach to Smash, though it's not as meaningful there (mostly because Smash's single-player isn't interesting enough to keep me engaged through a difficulty progression). One of the best examples of the concept is Hades. Tweaking the difficulty so specifically was great.

ReturnOfFa posted...

Yes I don't recall BLM protestors blocking medical facilities. Or going into schools.

There were more than a few complaints about traffic-blocking BLM protests interfering with ambulances, but those were more incidental issues than the fundamental goal of the protests.

MartianManchild posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/2/AAb2N0AAC5tq.jpg

That sounds like an excellent way to lose a job as a tow truck driver, given how lucrative police tow contracts are.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

burning and looting

Maybe I'm weird, but I tend to rank vandalism and theft quite a bit lower on the "heinous crimes" list than deliberately disrupting the medical system or attempting mass murder. Those were also isolated violent incidents that weren't part of the core protest, rather than a fundamental goal of the protest (as blockading hospitals is in this case).

Generally, I find that higher difficulties than easy are more fun. That's enough of a reason for me to not play on easy mode. Others' mileage may vary, though, and those that get butthurt over the mere existence of an easy mode as though it somehow insults them are stupid.

As much as I understand why the promised electoral reform didn't happen, I'm still annoyed at him for totally punking out.

Bonus points where the Canadian Liberal Party (along with Trudeau) is actually a left-leaning centrist party.

Important periodic reminder that the "mandate" they're protesting against isn't even mandatory. Those that don't want to be vaccinated still retain the option of being tested upon arrival and isolating for 1-3 days while they wait for results. This is also not a new requirement: Everyone else entering Canada has had to follow the same guidelines for as long as the border has been open, commercial drivers were just granted the special privilege of ignoring that. They aren't having rights taken away, they're having special privileges taken away (mostly because unvaccinated truckers are now such a small minority that it's no longer especially disruptive for them to have to follow those guidelines).

Nothing says "left-leaning centrist who never engages in whataboutism" like categorically refusing to accept that right-wing terrorist riots are riotous terrorism while insisting left-wing protests with fringe violent elements must be collectively considered terrorists before even entertaining discussion of right-wing terrorism.

MartianManchild posted...

Remember the BLM protests and you guys saying how the people doing the rioting and looting were just a fringe minority or alt righters trying to undermine the meaning behind the protests? Now youre saying everyone at these protests is a nazi or someone trying to burn down a building? The hypocrisy from you people is hilarious lmao

adjl posted...

I will say, I am trying to keep an open mind and believe that the psychotic Nazis are probably a non-representative minority of an otherwise peaceful protest. That is, after all, what happened with the BLM protests, with a whole bunch of people generalizing the violent minority to discredit the movement as a whole and avoid confronting the central message. The central message of this protest is still wrong, of course, and I will continue to disagree with it and argue against it wherever possible, but I want to try to avoid dismissing it all as just being the insane ramblings of racist vandals.

That said, they're making it really hard, especially where even the well-intentioned ones are still engaging in blatant terrorism (that is, "we're engineering a supply crisis unless we get the political change we want").

I don't know how many times I'm going to need to repeat this for you to understand, but copy+pasting is pretty easy, so I'm willing to keep it up.

The_Viscount posted...

*Cue laugh track*

Ford's generally a dink, but he's not wrong. This is an overt attempt to undermine the democratic process with terrorist threats, and they have occupied the space in question.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Nah mate, you just bought the gub'mint cover up for the Jewish Space Laser being tested around the world lmao

Darn, bamboozled again!

BlackScythe0 posted...

The people I work with use numbers from their preferred websites that claim numbers of people who "actually" died from covid and not preexisting conditions.

I almost forgot to put the quotes around actually.

"Covid isn't killing people, there's just been an inexplicable increase in the number of strokes and fatal cases of pneumonia!"

The supreme irony is that they criticize the rest of us for being scared of Covid, completely unaware that their own soul-consuming terror has driven them to pretend it doesn't exist or isn't a problem instead of confronting reality.

Decoy77 posted...

By the WHO's own stats the FLU GLOBALLY disappeared from around March 2020 until Nov of 2021...isn't it AMAZING how it just up and vanished and just started to come back in the last 3 months?

It's not tremendously surprising. For 2020's flu season, masks, distancing, and other measures were around in full force, and those that did develop flu symptoms tended overwhelmingly to isolate and only get tested for Covid. I fully expect that there were still plenty of flu cases, they just never got confirmed by labs because people didn't get tested for influenza. Anyone hospitalized would still have been confirmed, but most of those at risk of being hospitalized by influenza are also those at greatest risk of being hurt by Covid, so they and those around them tended to be even more careful than the general public. Flu shots were also exceptionally popular last year because public health was on everyone's mind.

This year, with Covid vaccines everywhere, other precautions have been dramatically reduced or abandoned entirely (which is a big part of why Omicron was able to explode like it did), so influenza's bound to pick up again.

It's also very important to note that it takes about 1.5-2 years after a given flu season to be able to compare its number to historical data. Historical flu data is a product of using various models to extrapolate from confirmed case counts to account for all of the cases that were not lab-confirmed (I don't know about you, but I generally don't bother going to the doctor whenever I have flu symptoms). That takes a considerable amount of time, which means directly comparing the 19/20 flu season to the 20/21 one is going to be a little wonky. We may never actually see meaningful modelling for the 20/21 season, because so many factors changed from every previous year.

Decoy77 posted...

And again by WHO's own stats since the Covid-19 "pandemic" there have been just 6,183 deaths in the UK...of 65,000,000 people. So 0.0001% of the population...yep good thing they shut down the country right? (This is from Feb 1st 2020 to Dec 31st 2021)

This is just you refusing to understand how "cause of death" works. There's no point in giving this "argument" any more attention than this.

Decoy77 posted...

Also by the WHO's stats there have been 2,457,386 adverse reactions to the Covid-19 vaccine shot.
The next closest in reported cases of adverse reactions is the Influenza vaccine of 272,202 and that is from 1968 to 2021.

How many of those adverse reactions were "my arm hurts"? This has been - by a margin that cannot be overstated - the most heavily-scrutinized vaccine rollout in history. Between the novel technology involved, the precedent this campaign will set for the response to future pandemics (and there will be future pandemics, not unlike this one), and widespread paranoia from the public around them, the medical community at large has been monitoring potential side effects incredibly closely and documenting just about anything that could possibly be associated with the vaccines. Directly comparing the Covid vaccines to more established ones like this is largely meaningless because of how different the circumstances are, especially when you've rolled up every adverse reaction into a single statistic (that's never a useful comparison) and quoted raw numbers instead of rates (which makes them useless for analyzing the risks involved).

And, despite all of these efforts to twist the data in Covid's favour, even if we pretend every single one of those adverse effects were lethal, that's still fewer than half of Covid's body count (2.4 million vs. 5.74 million) despite there being over 25 times more doses given than Covid cases (10.2 billion doses vs. 395 million cases). You are nearly 60 times more likely to be killed by Covid than to have an adverse reaction (of any severity) to the vaccine.

Really, it's telling that you people never quote vaccine-related fatality statistics for a proper comparison. Even the pro-Covid crowd have enough statistical common sense to know that that's not something they can spin in the disease's favour.