Lurker > ZenOfThunder

i watched most of this before, it's very good. put into words how i feel about this game. it was honestly hard to place, I knew something was always "off" but I'm not that huge into MGS so I never really thought critically about it.
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@LeonhartFour if you are listening please go to my fb and vote, I know you'll make the right decision

happy new year
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I think the mod sets the amount of time you get the purge, I remember it was 2 weeks for me last time it happened in like 2011 or something
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I CANT BELIEVE IT

I JUST PUT THIS AS A POLL ON FACEBOOK AND SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT AT THE PARTY VOTED "BIB FORTUNA" IMMEDIATELY

am i living in freaking CRAZY TOWN?
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idk where else to ask this, I trust you guys

I got into an argument with my friend at a New Year's party while playing charades, he didn't know who Dr. McCoy was and then went on to say that "more people know who Bib Fortuna is" and I think that's absolutely ridiculous, but a lot of my Star Wars nerd friends were like "yeah there's a lot more Star Wars fans than Star Trek fans so he's right"

what the hell

am I crazy

are they crazy

YOU decide
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my first ever gamefaqs board experience and the reason I signed up was Yu Yu Hakusho: Dark Tournament for PS2

I still pop in but it's dead

I also check out Elite Beat Agents sometimes to see if anyone has made a "what songs do you want in EBA2" thread but you never even get those anymore
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I need 5 good video game themed questions for some pub trivia I'm doing for my friends. They'll vary in difficulty. It's about 40 people with a wide range of video game knowledge, and I'm going to ramp up the difficulty from "easy" to "super hard" of the course of 5 questions, I would like it if the "super hard" question wasn't completely impossible tho

Just throw out some questions, it needs to be 2017 themed and I guess that's all the requirements. as it's pub trivia you don't need to provide multiple choice answers or anything like that.

thank you!!
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FFDragon posted...

i mean

why make that 1 in a million shot into the death star exhaust pipe super design flaw when you could just warp jump an x-wing into the middle of it?

i don't care enough, but it's a valid argument imo

This isn't a bad argument but idk if one X-Wing would have done that much to the death star

but i guess maybe the rebels in the first movie didn't have enough resources to gamble large freighters/dreadnoughts on one-shot attempts to destroy a planet-sized gun
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why would the New Order or Rebels use "crash our ship into the bad ship" as their first method of combat? shit's not cheap

can't believe people think that's a valid argument
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Anyone have a current movie ranking?

Best to Worst:

V
IV
VII
VIII
VI
RO
III
I
II

not sure if I still have VII and VIII, thinking about the moral ambiguity/"grey" theming of VIII has made me really warm up to it
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also if anyone wants some advice, stay away from any RedLetterMedia thread, forum or community right now. even the Plinkett comment sections

The entire RLM fanbase is divided right now because half of them loved it and the other half think it's worse than the prequels. There's no middle ground. It's a lot of really petty infighting and childing insults

the source of the discontent is that Fandango screwed up Mike and Jay's tickets so they weren't able to see the movie and make their review, and the RLM fanbase is 100% influenced by what Mike and Jay think, and without their opinion they're all lost and trying to choose "the right side" before Mike and Jay reveal what "the right side" is, and it's sad and ridiculous
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yeah dude my roomie went out to see it and I actually couldn't wait for him to come home so we could discuss it. I can't think of any other movie where I've been stoked just to have a conversation about it.

He was way more down on it than me so me defending it made me appreciate it a whole lot more. I still don't think it's a flawless masterpiece and there's a ton that gets me mad but I think it made me appreciate Star Wars more than I originally did
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Also speaking of Poe's other failure let's talk about the REAL most unbelievable thing in the movie that I haven't seen anyone else bring up:

Those bombers at the start are the most inefficient shit I've ever seen. They move at like ten miles per hour, no shields and bare minimum defenses, carry explosive ordinance that can detonate not only the entire ship but OTHER ships next to it if they go off (and they will because the ships are sitting ducks), and despite being in space are designed to "drop" bombs onto the target. I suppose in Star Wars every ship has its own localized gravity so I can let the last point slide a bit. But still, fuck those things.

Yeah they were totes there for drama but I didn't get why Leia tried calling them back when they were basically there already. They move slow as molasses so calling them back would have probably taken like an hour and the TIE Fighters and super destroyer would have blown them up anyway so you might as well go forward with the plan.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

I've really enjoyed reading these threads, even if I've only posted in them a couple of times. Honestly the more debate I read and the more I analyze the movie, the more I find myself liking it. I'm definitely going to see it a second time very soon and see where all of my thoughts land.

For how good the discussion has been here, I've heard rumblings that other parts of the internet are just spewing hate pretty much nonstop. Is it really as bad as all that? I don't tend to poke my head in places that get that toxic. >_>

I actually really enjoy debating here, originally I walked out of the theater thinking it was a 7/10, recently I bumped it down to a 6, but I think speaking with Fool and Para and everyone has had me raise it back up to a 7, maybe an 8, because it's been too long since I enjoyed talking about a movie this much.

And yes, there are people going nuts over this movie. The Star Wars subreddit is a cesspool right now, if you go there and sort by "controversial" you'll see some really crazy things. People are calling it the worst Star Wars ever, worst than Phantom or Clones. I know the movie has flaws but those people are nuts. There's also a petition going around to have Disney remove it from the canon and it's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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The Finn and Rose stuff really came off as the writers scrambling to find something for those characters to do that was relevant to the plot. I didn't like the magical "light speed tracking room" that just started existing all of a sudden and turned out to be an actual thing that drove the plot.

Para is right in saying that subplot needed more time. I think this movie should have been longer but I think that's a controversial opinion and I know most people won't feel the same way, and from a money-making standpoint Disney would never add another 20-30 minutes to a movie and miss out on having more showings each day.
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foolm0r0n posted...

They couldn't have informed us because then during that whole 40 minute adventure the audience would know it's all a huge waste and wouldn't be able to care. It's still hard to care about that bit, but still.

The more I think about it the more I like Holdo's comeuppance one of the best out of all the arcs. I initially thought that it was weird/lame that Poe had TWO failure arcs in the same movie. But the second failure was really more of Holdo's failure. I think it's interesting to show how failure can be indirect through badly managing other people. Basically Poe's failure is being too emotional/impulsive while Holdo's is not being emotional enough.

This is a good post, I like this post a lot.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I can definitely see the complaint that the movie is TOO concerned with setting up your preconceptions and then knocking them down, but that's what I like about it.

I really didn't like the Holdo thing but I do really like the Rey's parents twist, the Luke-not-training Rey twist, and the Yoda-blowing-up-the-scriptures twist. The upsetting of expectations is definitely good when used right but I think it being the crutch of the movie is pretty weak. They had enough twists, I think they should have cut back.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I'm just going to file the Holdo/Poe stuff under "they didn't have enough time in the movie to flesh this out" I think and leave it at that. The movie's already stretched thin as it is with the Finn/Rose subplot not having nearly enough time to breathe.

Yeah pretty much this, it's a shame because the movie could have been way more with some stronger B-Plots, I actually really liked all the A-Plot stuff.

Thank you for the continued support Para, one day when I'm writing the Vice Admiral Holdo mini-series for Marvel I'll make sure to thank you and Fool in the credits.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I like the idea of people being paranoid of the possibility of there being a spy by the way.

That is the implication. Especially because there WAS a spy (or rather a guy with no morals) and it DID cause the exact problem that she was trying to avoid.

I think that whole situation does reflect badly on Holdo though. It was largely her fault and that is intentional, because it is to show her failure. The main flaw with her story is that she is too new and undeveloped for us to care about her emotionally.

I think it ended up reflecting badly on Holdo because Rian Johnson was so focused on upsetting everyone's expectations. He really wanted to have that big "LOOK! SHE WAS RIGHT! HER PLAN WAS GREAT AND POE DAMERON IS A HOTHEADED FOOL NOT TO TRUST HER! STAR WARS FANS WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPREHEND THIS HOT NEW RIAN JOHNSON PLOT TWIST"

But it comes off as really forced and it's almost like he's rubbing it in your face, all because, like Para said, he had Holdo not only withhold information from Poe, but from the audience as well. If we got to see both POVs it would have worked much better, but there had to be a twist. There were too many twists in this movie just for the sake of having twists.
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alright here's a fun headline that is actually real:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017

An eerily perfect installment for the post-Trump era.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

So I get what they were going for and I get why it landed with people and I'm not saying it's a bad message, and I think Holdo could have been a great addition (as I've said multiple times)

But the presentation of the subplot was fundamentally flawed and tbqh Holdo did not come off as a likable character. The audience is familiar with Poe and is already on his side, Holdo needed some better dialogue to get the audience thinking her way. The way it is now it's a little sloppy and the message is kind of lost.

Everyone here does bring up some really valid points though and I'm not close-minded enough to never admit I'm wrong but I still don't think that subplot is fine-as-is. It needed a few tweaks and would have been much better presented and would have probably been more well received overall.
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uhhh I don't think anyone thinks you were being not-sarcastic
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I get what they were going for but Holdo needed a throw-away line or two about either thinking there was a spy or straight up saying she doesn't trust Poe. She lets him run in and throw tantrums and stuff but she kind of just doesn't do anything about it.

I don't think she told anybody her plan as Poe has that one friend on the bridge who joined him in the mutiny. If she had been discussing the plan that girl would have overheard and told Poe "no don't she actually has a plan and it's good"

My big problem is she never once said to Poe "hey I have a plan," she just told him to shut up and go away. If she had thrown him in the brig I would have respected her more but she did literally nothing which is incredibly frustrating to watch.
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I agree with Para

Holdo was definitely a great addition to the cast and a missed opportunity to flesh out both her own character and Poe's. With just a few simple tweaks it could have been one of the strongest subplots in the movie. I think moviegoers would have felt way more emotion watching her die in that really cool way if she was portrayed more positively.
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I don't think Holdo was saying she liked Poe in a romantic way and I would hate it if that was the actual implication. If there's one thing good about her character it is that she's fiercely independent. It just needed to be played in a way where it was more of a positive than a negative.

Also I went on Tumblr and searched "Holdo" and you get a lot of gems like: "we can all collectively agree leia and holdo dated right?" and a lot of posts saying she is "the real hero" so I think she's definitely a hit with that audience
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Holdo is not a big deal at all. All you have to do is add a throwaway line about the Resistance thinking there must be a spy on board (which seemed pretty implicit to me with them being skeptical about hyperspace tracking). I hate the "drama because simple misunderstanding" trope but this is a military situation and Holdo has no obligation to disclose the plan to Poe just because he's a main character.

As you can see in my great re-write all she needs to do is say "I have a plan" and that fixes a lot of the issues. In the movie she just kind of stands there while Poe is having temper tantrums. I'm not asking for her to make a detailed Powerpoint presentation, I'm asking for some basic leadership skills.

Imagine going into work and there's a big project that will affect the profitability of an entire quarter, and your boss holds a meeting and is like "this project is gonna be tough" and when someone asks what the plan is she just yells "NONE OF YOU CAN KNOW THE PLAN" and nothing else, then gives everyone seemingly random assignments and won't answer any follow-up questions. You'd get really frustrated, and rightfully so.

It's not a "minor problem" either because having poor communication between Holdo and Poe has a huge impact on the plot. There would be no Finn/Rose subplot if the communication was better, and if there was it would probably be a lot different.
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Honestly just a throwaway line with Holdo saying "I don't trust you Poe" would have been enough for me, but you really don't get anything like that, she kind of just ignores him the whole time and comes off as a bit of an unrelatable bitch

You don't even need my rewrite to make it work I just think my way would make it super obvious to Poe that he was the one that messed up and if he had just followed orders Finn and Rose wouldn't have been in a dangerous situation and Benecio Del Toro wouldn't have been there to leak Holdo's plan to the First Order. It could set him up really well in the next film for even more development where he tries to atone.
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Thank you, for my next trick I will fix Rian Johnson's name

"Ryan Johnson"
-ZenOfThunder, 2017

please hold your applause
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WhiteLens posted...

ZenOfThunder posted...

wonder if they're gonna add in any new story/features and expand the multiplayer (making it available from the start would be a good first step)

I wouldn't mind replaying it so this is great news

see you at evo

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201712/19148452.html

They've already shown a new girl.

I got really excited til I actually saw the new girl, she has a weak design IMO

I hope her name is Qatherine or something
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Alright I took a shower and thought about Holdo the whole time (not in that way)(also I work weird hours so I do occasionally shower at 2am)

Here's how to fix the Holdo/Poe arc:

1) In the beginning when Poe is doing his bombing run, have Holdo be the one in charge of the bombing fleet, and have her be the one to order Poe to turn back before Leia does. Have him ignore her and then show her contempt for his disobedience.

2) When it's announced that Holdo is taking over for Leia, show a look of terror on Poe's face. After the speech (which was a good speech, keep it) have Poe go over and make a half-assed, hammy apology, after which he launches into all his ideas. The rest of the scene can play out the same way as the real movie.

3) When Poe asks Holdo what the plan is, she tells him that she won't be disclosing it to him, because even though they believe the First Order has a way to track through Warp, it may be a bluff and there could be a traitor among them. When Poe argues, she could say that if he is loyal to the rebellion and Leia, then he should follow her orders. He continues to argue, and she brings up the bombing run, and how it could be argued that he is a traitor.

4) Add a scene where Poe talks to that girl on the bridge, trying to get her to switch sides. Have her say that she has heard Holdo's plan and that it is a good plan. She also won't tell Poe as she is under orders not to. Poe storms off.

5) When Poe comes to the bridge again, he tries to mutiny right there, but he has less support because the plan has been disclosed to key people and trust has been built. Poe immediately learns he is not as charismatic as he thinks and that his hotheaded methods don't always yield results. His friend on the bridge is the one to knock him out.

6) Poe is in the brig (like he should be; he committed a mutiny). Holdo visits him and Poe tells her about the mission he sent Finn on. She then reveals the plan to him and he concedes it is a good plan. She reiterates why she didn't tell him the plan and Poe realizes sometimes he needs to trust in the chain of command. He is let out of the brig and the movie continues on as normal.

7) When the ship is evacuating Poe follows all of Holdo's commands and catches himself when he's about to argue. He helps load up the ships and shows he is a more level-headed leader with a respect for command. Holdo smiles at him and then has her scene with Leia where she says that she likes him. Makes more sense in this context.

By doing this Holdo is shown to be a stronger leader and the lesson Poe learns comes across as less hamfisted.

I did some reading on Holdo and apparently she is a secretive weirdo but I don't think that was conveyed well in the film at all. I think my additions fix that a bit.

You're welcome Rian Johnson
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Luke shut himself off from the Force (which I guess means maybe he has a valve on the back of his head like the Valve logo guy) so he couldn't sense Chewy or anyone was there

I actually don't have any complaints about that
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wonder if they're gonna add in any new story/features and expand the multiplayer (making it available from the start would be a good first step)

I wouldn't mind replaying it so this is great news

see you at evo
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Yoda was great, happy they made him a puppet. It looked good.
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really didn't like the Hux joke at the beginning

didn't like the Chewbacca Porg Eating joke, mainly because Chewbacca was relegated to Porg duty the whole movie.

The only reason Chewbacca doesn't do anything is because his toys notoriously sell like shit, so they pull away any focus on him and also give him Porgs to play with in some funny scenes for babies. If you go to the toy section of your local Target you'll see all the Chewbacca toys now come with Porgs. Disney gotta make that $$$$$$
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6 y/o

Wait until 2010 when Bitcoin hits the scene, buy like 80,000 of them when they're worth $.0008 for like $65

Sell them when they hit $20k for a profit of $1,600,000,000

Also maybe go to Seattle and meet a young Jeff Bezos and help him get Amazon off the ground. Get that sweet stock.
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you know I think this might actually be a great Star Wars movie because we can debate about it so much

With the originals all you really had was Return which was like still good with some complaints people had

Then everyone hated the prequels except Revenge which was like still awful with some good points people brought up

Now you have this movie which is equal parts fantastic and embarrassing which is kind of a pleasant surprise

I think in like 20 years people will remember it as being pretty good but a little flawed tho, I don't think public perception for TLJ will ever be "that movie is terrible"
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a fun thing I wanna post here:

I watched a cam today, and it was filmed somewhere in Mexico. It was in English other than the title crawl. When Rose saved Finn and gave her speech about love or w/e and then immediately after the First Order punched through the giant door, a lady in the audience screamed "AAAAGH LA IDIOTA" really loudly

nice to know bad writing transcends culture and language
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can anyone actually clear up for me how Benecio Del Toro knew Holdo's plan to use the escape pods to fly under the radar

Like who told him that

Did Finn know? Did Rose know? When did Poe tell them? He didn't know until after he got knocked out and woke up and by then Finn and Rose were captured
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Yes therefore Holdo is my new fave character

The Vice Admiral is dead, long live the Vice Admiral
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Ackbar and Mothma didn't get some dramatic heart-to-heart scene with Leia followed by dramatic sacrifice scenes that I guess we were supposed to care about

The lightspeed kamikaze looked great, it's a shame that people now associate it with Holdo and think that it somehow redeems bad writing

If Holdo had been honest:

Holdo: "Hey, we're going to run towards this planet, then when we run out of fuel, we're going to eject some pods, and they'll be too small to be picked up by First Order radar. Then we will get to that planet which has an old base and we'll lay low for a bit and set up shop and use the enhanced communications to reach other rebels to rebuild."

This is a GOOD PLAN. Poe Dameron thinks this is a good plan. IT IS. It would have taken 2 seconds to tell the crew.

Instead she doesn't tell anyone at all, not even Poe's friend on the bridge who ended up mutinying with him. Actually, SEVERAL people mutinied because Holdo wouldn't have a two second conversation.

So Poe sends his friends out to go find a master codebreaker (?) to get into the ship to find the magic lightspeed tracker (??) and disable it. They end up finding Benecio Del Toro who is a turncoat and then gives away Holdo's plan to have the escape pods fly under the radar, thus costing hundreds of lives as well as the Rebel base and I guess also Luke's life if you think about it. If she had been honest then he wouldn't have been there.

She had no reason to be quiet about the plan. Maybe at first, I'll give you that, but when Poe comes storming onto the bridge yelling, why didn't she tell him there? When he said "you're filling up these pods so we can get in them and die" why wouldn't she just say "no we'll fly under the radar and get to this salt planet"

Again, it's just general incompetence. How did she make it to Vice Admiral? By wearing nice clothes and jewelry on the bridge? Transparency is key in leadership, especially in times of turmoil.

Somehow people thinking she had a cool death redeems this tho, and I guess the "girl power" thing that I see but I don't know if that's people shitposting or if people actually believe she is some kind of new feminist icon in star wars because she was paling around with Leia and put that flyboy Poe in his place
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foolm0r0n posted...

I love how much Holdo triggers nerds. So simple yet effective.

Yeah I'm pretty triggered I guess if that's the word you used, and I worked at a comic shop for 6 years so I guess I'm a nerd

I also see people adamantly defending her but nobody really gives any good reasoning. I also don't think Rian Johnson put her in there to "trigger nerds" I think that just kind of happened through bad storytelling. She could have been fine if she had just been open about her plans.

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Also, on the Snoke thing, Rian Johnson is right that focusing on her being some other character from the prequels or even OT wouldn't have mattered at all.

Does anyone remember how in Star Trek Into Darkness Benedict Cumberbatch dramatically revealed I AM KHAN and there was like a dramatic sting and they showed Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto just making confused faces and everyone made fun of that terrible moment because it means nothing in the context of the new film universe

It would have been a lot like that and honestly general audiences would have cared just as little as Rey would have
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yooo my man KP, you and Leon are the only two people I still have highlighted

I'm happy you're still alive too, I also think you have good opinions on this star wars feature film

I'll be around next contest season if that ever happens

We'll catch up someday, hit me up on Facebook if you still got one

Also I can't post in this thread without an obligatory "Vice Admiral Holdo is a worse character than Dexter Jettster"
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wow I haven't seen a thread move this fast since contest season, brings back good memories

Give me that "Best. Star Wars. Game. Ever." contest, Bacon
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I really enjoyed Rey and Snoke being nothing but I feel like Rian Johnson took a "SUCK IT FANS" approach with the reveals. Snoke could still be something but the reveal will probs be in a comic or book or w/e

I don't like the delivery and I think the movie tried to hard to be full of twists that weren't necessary and didn't work or had bad delivery. One or two big twists would have been fine.

Again I am going to put a special shoutout here to Vice Admiral Hoodoo and harp on the fact that they "HEY I HAD A PLAN AND IT'S GREAT TAKE THAT THE PATRIARCHY" was really really poorly done and just made her look like an idiot. I actually got mad when they gave her a sendoff scene because she's such a worthless, terribly written character that hurt the quality of what could have been a great movie.
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hello this is zenofthunder doing my yearly post

I saw this movie and it was not awful, but it certainly was not good. I don't even know if it was bad. I have no idea what it is. The parts that were great were great but the parts that were bad were some of the worst things I have ever seen in the theaters

Leia thing was embarrasing

Vice Admiral Hodor is the worst character of 2017, holy shit way to make someone so unlikable.

Finn and Rose had a strong case of "they needed something for us to do." lots of shoehorned political crap on the casino planet, felt like it was shoved down my throat. I don't care if movies have secret agendas as long as it isn't really blatant.

The Luke/Rey stuff was good

I liked Benecio Del Toro although if Admiral Hurdur had just been up front with her plan he wouldn't even have had much of a roll so

Cinematography was stellar

Kylo Ren is great

There were 39 porgs, I counted. I didn't hate them like I thought I would

I watched a really good cam so that I could see it a second time and I feel about the same although this time I tried to figure out if Vice Admiral Hobo was competent in any way and I can confirm that she is a terrible joke of a character. Honestly ruined a good part of the film for me. Laura Dern is a good actress but I feel like her character's subplot must have gotten messed up after a few drafts of the script or something cuz it made absolutely no sense.

Overall like a 6/10, maybe even 6.5. I get why everyone hates it so much but tbqh it isn't THAT bad, people just tend to overreact I think. On the other hand the people saying it's better than Empire or saying that it had no/only a few flaws are objectively wrong.
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Cave scene looked cool

Was not pointless

But the point didn't add much to the movie overall, probably could have been cut for time
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L
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Kaiba
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my roommate was in the kitchen when i beat it and he came out to ask what the hell i was listening to

when he saw it was the credits for wolfenstein 2 he said "ok i don't wanna play it after you anymore" and then he walked back into the kitchen and he never touched it
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when you add the time gohan spends fighting movie villains he's roughly 47 by the cell games so we should be calling him Gohan (Middle-Aged)
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CelesMyUserName posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

Nothihg in DB bugs me more than Cell games Gohan being called teen in games....

HE'S FUCKING NINE!!!!!!!!

lies

05.18.757 - Gohan born
05.16.767 - Gohan enters time chamber (9 years old)
05.17.767 - Gohan exits time chamber (10 years old)
05.18.767 - Gohan's birthday (11 years old)
05.26.767 - Cell games (Gohan is 11 years old)

ahh yeah the memorable age of "eleventeen"
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i still pop in sometimes to see if this place is still here or if i recognize any names

i also miss golden age board 8
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