Board 8 > Star Wars: The Last Jedi spoiler thread 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

It also probably doesn't help that they let the fans build their own continuity for decades before unceremoniously throwing it all in the trash. It needed to happen for new movies to be made (the Expanded Universe would be nuts to try and follow) but they handled the PR really poorly.
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Murphiroth posted...

Yeah Snoke and Ren aren't Sith per Lucasfilm IIRC.

The current books have Palpatine sensing a strong dark side presence in the Unknown Regions back during the OT which people think is Snoke. Apparently Snoke was also manipulating Ben to the dark side even while he was in the womb or some other dumb shit.

Haven't actually read any of the new stuff though so this is just what I've read.

I think Leia just had nightmares and dreams of the dark side and Vader while he was in the womb but not positive.
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SmartMuffin posted...

It's been what? 15-20 years since the end of ROTJ?

30 years.

I will admit about the Star Wars fanbase, it's ridiculous. I stuck to this board's discussion of it only, because most of the people here are pretty reasonable with their opinions. Like even when we disagree, we're all still pretty civil about it.

I tried venturing over to the Movies board the other day and immediately regretted my decision. I can't even fathom what the Star Wars board looks like right now and I don't even want to attempt looking for myself.
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LeonhartFour posted...

trying to remake FFVII might be more difficult than trying to do something brand new so yeah good luck

Which is why they aren't remaking it, they're rebooting it.
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I mean call it whatever you want it's still different from what Star Wars is doing
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oh. I thought all bad guy Force people were Sith somehow

Regardless of the technical definitions Lucas throws out, I think this is how most people actually use the term.
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massive meltdowns in all the movie boards

honestly the people that take these things too seriously just ruin it for themselves

you can find flaws in pretty much any movie if you looked hard enough

best to just enjoy these movies as holiday blockbusters
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AquaArcane posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

It's been what? 15-20 years since the end of ROTJ?

30 years.

I will admit about the Star Wars fanbase, it's ridiculous. I stuck to this board's discussion of it only, because most of the people here are pretty reasonable with their opinions. Like even when we disagree, we're all still pretty civil about it.

I tried venturing over to the Movies board the other day and immediately regretted my decision. I can't even fathom what the Star Wars board looks like right now and I don't even want to attempt looking for myself.

Movies board is a good board.
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I thought the deal was that there is a species that's Sith but also people who adopted the Sith religion who call themselves Sith.

How canon any of this is anymore is probably anyone's guess.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I thought the deal was that there is a species that's Sith but also people who adopted the Sith religion who call themselves Sith.

How canon any of this is anymore is probably anyone's guess.

So it's like being a Jew.

You can be a Jew because your parents were Jews.

Or you can be a Jew because you choose to practice Judaism.

Or you can be a Jew because you're kinda cheap and one of your friends says "Hey look at this Jew over there."
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I don't think I knew the word Sith until the prequels? I'm sure it's in the OT

same with Palpatine - that's why I always just call him emperor
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transience posted...

I don't think I knew the word Sith until the prequels? I'm sure it's in the OT

same with Palpatine - that's why I always just call him emperor

It was in the novelization of the original movie and in the script, it seems.
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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_(species)

Sith were a red skinned tentacle faced species before it became the word for Dark Jedi basically

Of course this probably isn't canon anymore but I think it's irrelevant anyway, they don't seem to be using the label at all in the new movies.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I thought the deal was that there is a species that's Sith but also people who adopted the Sith religion who call themselves Sith.

How canon any of this is anymore is probably anyone's guess.

This is untrue to my knowledge.
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transience posted...

I don't think I knew the word Sith until the prequels? I'm sure it's in the OT

same with Palpatine - that's why I always just call him emperor

In the books when referring to them. No one alive really knew of the sith besides obi wan and Yoda.
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transience posted...

I think this twitter thread is smart

https://twitter.com/andygreenwald/status/942910102234832896

Not so sure about this. I think there is insane hype behind "taking the toys off the shelf" but it's not necessarily negative. People didn't hate TFA for giving new stories to Leia and Han, basically blaming them for the creation of the new big baddie, and then killing off Han. The movie was fairly formulaic but that stuff was undeniably risky and significant.

So maybe Luke is just that much more important than Leia and Han? I was never a star wars fanatic so I dunno how valid that is, but I feel like Han's evil mass murdering sith son, who by the way is a pretty boy with long hair, stabbing him in the chest would be a bit more angering.

I really don't get the anger towards this movie (beyond the simple fact that rage is the internet's favorite pastime) but this doesn't seem like the answer.
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People were talking about Han potentially dying pretty much as soon as Harrison Ford was confirmed to be in Episode 7. I don't think it was a huge surprise to people.
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foolm0r0n posted...

I really don't get the anger towards this movie

To me, and I haven't really observed it as much as others have, it's basically that no one's conspiracy theory was proven right. Therefore they can't say "I FUCKING CALLED IT" and they get angry.
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Why the flying fuck do people use Twitter of all things to type these essays, it's physically painful how stupid it is. I'm not even going to read whatever that is.
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Corrik posted...

This is untrue to my knowledge.

AquaArcane posted...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_(species)

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Adam Driver is a pretty boy? That dude has a really weird face by Halloween standards.
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Trashing the EU is the worst. It would be fine if they brought some concepts (gray jedi come on) into the movie but it doesn't seem that way.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

Why the flying fuck do people use Twitter of all things to type these essays, it's physically painful how stupid it is. I'm not even going to read whatever that is.

I mean...just read it? It's all on one page.
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i thought it was widely publicized that harrison ford only agreed to come back if they killed han

he wanted them to kill han in rotj, but he just phoned it in instead
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In terms of the canon, Luke is definitely much more important than Han. Plus, they didn't make any radical changes to Han's characterization. He's essentially the same person, just old.
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KamikazePotato posted...

People were talking about Han potentially dying pretty much as soon as Harrison Ford was confirmed to be in Episode 7. I don't think it was a huge surprise to people.

The moment Han walked on the catwalk with no handrails it was pretty obvious what was about to happen
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KamikazePotato posted...

People were talking about Han potentially dying pretty much as soon as Harrison Ford was confirmed to be in Episode 7. I don't think it was a huge surprise to people.

Is it just surprise then? People didn't expect it so now they're mad? That still doesn't make sense.

Like is it really so surprising that Luke died? The super old dude who exiled himself to an island for the exact purpose of dying?
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Well, I think Luke has this aura of invincibility and/or immortality about him since he's supposed to be the ultimate Jedi.
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To be honest I coulda sworn people were thinking Luke would die in this movie, of course I stayed away from all theories and discussions of the movie prior to seeing it so I dunno. Just seemed like something people would expect.

I certainly wasn't shocked by it. Made sense to me that he exhausted his life force.
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Plus that just means he'll be a Force ghost in the next movie, probably. Seemed like a perfectly logical path to take for his character.
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Han is also the kind of character that dies more often. Rogueish, morally gray side characters are killedd off way more than iconic main characters. People were primed for it by other media.
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I was under the impression one of the big three would die every movie.

Which if it wasn't the case before is almost certainly the case now that they have to write Leia off.
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FFDragon posted...

I was under the impression one of the big three would die every movie.

Which if it wasn't the case before is almost certainly the case now that they have to write Leia off.

Leia dies off screen.
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no shit

but she survived 8 and will be talked about dead in 9 so i'm counting it
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LeonhartFour posted...

He's essentially the same person, just old.

I thought Luke mostly was too. He's a stubborn asshole in the originals from what I can tell. He aged reasonably in this one. And he STILL was the one to be the hero and save the day in the end.

I think Han (and Leia) losing their son to the dark side is a pretty serious change though. They had to make Han realistically hateable so that we could empathize with Kylo hating him. That stuff is definitely on the level of Luke's stuff.
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hello this is zenofthunder doing my yearly post

I saw this movie and it was not awful, but it certainly was not good. I don't even know if it was bad. I have no idea what it is. The parts that were great were great but the parts that were bad were some of the worst things I have ever seen in the theaters

Leia thing was embarrasing

Vice Admiral Hodor is the worst character of 2017, holy shit way to make someone so unlikable.

Finn and Rose had a strong case of "they needed something for us to do." lots of shoehorned political crap on the casino planet, felt like it was shoved down my throat. I don't care if movies have secret agendas as long as it isn't really blatant.

The Luke/Rey stuff was good

I liked Benecio Del Toro although if Admiral Hurdur had just been up front with her plan he wouldn't even have had much of a roll so

Cinematography was stellar

Kylo Ren is great

There were 39 porgs, I counted. I didn't hate them like I thought I would

I watched a really good cam so that I could see it a second time and I feel about the same although this time I tried to figure out if Vice Admiral Hobo was competent in any way and I can confirm that she is a terrible joke of a character. Honestly ruined a good part of the film for me. Laura Dern is a good actress but I feel like her character's subplot must have gotten messed up after a few drafts of the script or something cuz it made absolutely no sense.

Overall like a 6/10, maybe even 6.5. I get why everyone hates it so much but tbqh it isn't THAT bad, people just tend to overreact I think. On the other hand the people saying it's better than Empire or saying that it had no/only a few flaws are objectively wrong.
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The weird thing is that Rian undid a lot of what Abrams was going for and now Abrams will probably undo a lot of his undoing. I expect to be alive somehow in IX and Ren to have parents of some note revealed in IX also as Abrams redoes what he intended.
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Also Luke didn't even die, he just dissolved into the Force. He's literally a god now.
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Han's death surprised me - I avoid all pre-release media for things I am interested in - but I think maybe Luke's death was less of a big deal for me because they already broke the aura of OT characters being invincible when they killed off Han.
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Eh, Luke being the guy who's almost ready to kill his own nephew because he might turn to the Dark Side is a pretty far cry from the guy who thought he could turn Darth Vader back to the Light Side.

foolm0r0n posted...

They had to make Han realistically hateable so that we could empathize with Kylo hating him.

no they didn't

we're not supposed to empathize with Kylo hating Luke, Han, or Leia
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Corrik posted...

I expect to be alive somehow in IX

I would certainly hope so
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I think that's the first time I've seen someone use the words "Kylo Ren" and "empathize" in the same sentence.
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I mean, am I wrong in my assessment? It really feels like the rage was around "OMG REY ISN'T A SKYWALKER" or "SNOKE WASN'T AN ANCIENT SITH OR PLAGUEIS" and that's got their knickers all in a bunch.
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No one in the world expected them to kill Han Solo the literal best thing in the Star Wars Universe. For all the Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker hype, Han Solo is probably considered the best character in all of Star Wars. Think how often he transcends his own even movie.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I mean, am I wrong in my assessment? It really feels like the rage was around "OMG REY ISN'T A SKYWALKER" or "SNOKE WASN'T AN ANCIENT SITH OR PLAGUEIS" and that's got their knickers all in a bunch.

I've seen a lot of legit criticisms about the movie as, you know, a movie. But they've all pretty much been overshadowed by...that stuff you said.
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Some people wanted Rey to be a Kenobi, too, but yeah, there was definitely some rage about that.
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Corrik posted...

No one in the world expected them to kill Han Solo the literal best thing in the Star Wars Universe.

maybe if you've never seen a harrison ford interview ever
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Holdo is a hero
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Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't Kylo explicitly say he didn't hate Han when Rey asked Kylo why he killed Han?
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't Kylo explicitly say he didn't hate Han when Rey asked Kylo why he killed Han?

He did. Of course, he also said that Han was a disappointing father in TFA, so he didn't seem to really love him either.
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