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TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/19/18 6:51:43 AM
#80
Just gotta string 4 wins together, easy! Aside from the fact that I haven't managed to do that since the start of season 7 and that 9 wins still doesn't guarantee me in
TopicHave you ever had CULTURE SHOCK in another city/country before????
ShatteredElysium
01/19/18 6:46:04 AM
#9
When I first emigrated to the US I was shocked by the complete lack of public transport and by how awful the drivers were. I literally saw more car accidents in my first week here than I had in my entire life in England. In England I could go years without seeing a car accident, in the US I regularly see 2-3 or sometimes more in my 20 minute commute to or from work. It's ridiculous.

And yet somehow car insurance is vastly cheaper here than England despite more accidents and cars being more expensive
TopicNBA Topic 5.5: Ya'll let it purge while I was away.
ShatteredElysium
01/18/18 9:30:54 PM
#70
Score 104-103 with 0.2 seconds left in Magic/Cavs. Inadvertent whistle results in jump off (so essentially ends the game). That's pretty stupid that is allowed to happen.

Aaron Gordon actually caught the tip off and scored from the halfway line with it but of course it's a tip off so you're not allowed to do that.

EDIT: Not to mention that Cavs winning free throws came off a 'foul' that should have been a jump ball
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/18/18 7:35:19 PM
#53
Minimal visible damage (scratches) but I'll have it inspected for frame damage because I've had it happen in the past, assumed no damage and then found out later there was frame damage.

My neck hurts too though which sucks
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/18/18 6:20:21 PM
#51
Hopefully Steelers win because I have had a shitty drive home. I drive a pretty nice car (Mercedes SLK) and some asshole in a Porsche rear ended me when we had already been stationary at the light for a solid minute. Like what the fuck, how does that even happen, the light hadn't even changed
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/18/18 9:48:03 AM
#46
His actual rating is 78. Now sure I could have been a dick and not disclosed his rating drop when trading but I'm not like that.

It's up to users discretion whether they ask about ratings. I asked because I knew there was a very high chance of a rating drop in my CB group because they have 3 INTs combined for the season and have zero 'notable' appearances in the post game log. I haven't asked about ratings changes when trading previously because usually the people I traded either weren't playing or were performing ok

If he was an 80 then I would have asked for a 3rd round pick not a 4th.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 9:52:06 PM
#42
The bigger issue now is that the Chiefs do not have the cap room for the trade to happen since they signed a FS.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 9:44:03 PM
#41
So...

27yo CB73 for a 4th rounder and a 4th string CB.
24yo CB35 to move up half a round and a 4th string CB.

Lets simplify things and say that the draft parts are of roughly equal value. The CB's involved have a significant difference in value in my opinion

Unless I acquire a highly rated CB from somewhere, it is unlikely any CB develops in my team. No CB has ever developed to above an 81 in my system. My starting 3 CB's average like 1.33 INT's and 20 tackles a season.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 7:01:27 PM
#34
KCF would know better than me but I believe Tarell Brown is a year 5 or 6 player. He's in year 2 of a 3 year contract and he was already at the Steelers when I took over (this is year 4 for me) so it's likely he was drafted by the Steelers.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 2:48:51 PM
#28
Can we get a repost of the Jukkie trade that was vetoed? I can't remember what it was (I also don't think I vetoed as I'd only veto something heavily one sided)
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 2:43:28 PM
#26
When I went through the league and counted CBs prior to looking for trade partners an 80 was a mid-late CB2. A 78 on average is a CB3.

I'd have to check again but I think I only saw 2 or 3 teams that would potentially trade for an 80 CB and see a decent improvement out of it. Then when I discovered he was a 78, that made things a lot worse

When I say no bites, I mean I sent out PMs and nobody was interested. Wasn't a case of just posting in the topic
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 2:20:59 PM
#24
Man, you guys have inflated values for guys rated in the 70s.

I was the one that pitched the trade and asked for a 4th. This was after I asked KCF if he thought a 3rd or 4th for a 78 CB was about right.

Also, trade value is dictated by what you can actually get on the market. Last season I shopped an 80 rated CB looking for a 2nd and got no bites. I lowered the price and even asking for a 3rd, I got no takers. So are CBs just untradeable then? Since I couldn't get a 3rd for an 80 and a 4th for a 78 is apparently too little. For the record my current best rated CB (81) is a 4th round pick.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 1:30:09 PM
#18
Basically Ranlom gives up a 4th for a slight upgrade in his playoff push.

I get a slight downgrade (-3) at a position I have a 3rd round draft pick waiting in line for starts and pick up a 4th knowing I need to rebuild in the offseason and am very unlikely to see the playoffs this year
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 1:23:38 PM
#17
I knew my CBs were underperforming so had likely dropped in rating so I asked KCF to verify their rating prior to trading as I didn't want to screw anyone over.

As for reasons I am trading him. Preseason depth chart had my lowest rated CB at the top. I overrode it. My CBs then underperformed so I planned on elevating the lower rated CB on the depth chart (3rd rd pick last year). At that point I would be better trading the 4th CB rather than having him rot (I don't think I've ever suffered a CB injury and 4th CB doesn't play). Especially as I am facing a slew of retirements in the off-season so need draft picks and had made no secret of that fact. CB was one of the places I could make an easy swap out for not much loss.

I am also getting a 21 year old 71 CB in return too who I could have as an inactive cheap 4th CB next year. Alternatively his contract is expiring so I can not resign him and draft a new CB (Or pick one up)

Ranlom is in playoff contention so gets an immediate boost to a weak secondary in his playoff push. Whereas I am very unlikely to make the playoffs so it makes sense to shift people now
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Week 13 and Beyond!
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 12:36:49 PM
#12
Trade to announce

Kansas City Chiefs Receive
CB Tarrell Brown (80 in spreadsheet, 78 in reality)

Pittsburgh Steelers Receive
CB Travis Johnson (71)
Chiefs 4th Rounder
TopicNBA Topic 5.5: Ya'll let it purge while I was away.
ShatteredElysium
01/17/18 11:47:23 AM
#36
Magic were guaranteed to win that match. We had just worked out way to best draft odds, had to mess that up
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/14/18 11:19:43 AM
#482
It's the curse of being predicted preseason #1! KCF predicted Ravens #1 last year and they tanked. Predicted Steelers #1 this year and we are awful.

I think I'd have to win out to realistically have a chance at the playoffs now and I most assuredly will be a lesser team next year when the bulk of my o-line retires.

Anyway, since my season is likely in tatters I'm looking to do some trades for draft picks (or alternatively replacements for my impending retirements). Zach Piller looks like he has fallen off the cliff with most sacks allowed in the league this season as a 90 Guard (I assume he's dropped in rating by now though). Granted his Blocks/Sacks ratio has never been as good as his rating suggests (4.54 over last 3 years)
TopicI want some recommendations for fun, cooperative board games
ShatteredElysium
01/13/18 8:54:47 AM
#58
Ended up buying Kingsburg and Twilight Imperium Rex since they were on sale and seemed super cheap ($25 and $30 respectively) but didn't get chance to play them due to being swamped at work and not getting a chance to go through the rules prior to people arriving. They look interesting though, anyone have experience with them?

What we actually played were Tokaido and Carcassone as both worked with the limited table space we had and number of players (Had 7 people but we just made the 2 couples team up to give us 5) and one of the guys brought them as a back-up after I mentioned being snowed under at work.

I'll very likely pick up some of your suggestions over the next few weeks though as it seems like we are going to start getting together every 1-2 weeks instead of like every 4.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/12/18 6:35:19 AM
#449
My team has become so frustrating over the last 2 years. Improvement in ratings but large downswing in results on the field
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/11/18 1:38:27 PM
#424
Jay Cutler interception day!
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/10/18 8:38:12 AM
#147
The eye test for Bama was atrocious in the late season.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/09/18 6:50:21 PM
#141
And that is why your results have to back up the talent. Ohio State were very likely one of the top 4 teams in the country (the same as when they last missed out) but we didn't prove it with results therefore we miss out and that's fine.

Which is exactly why despite Alabama winning it all, they should not have been in. Their results on the field didn't justify their selection regardless of if they were one of the best 4 in the country (they clearly were post playoffs, not so much on pre playoff form)

We have to take the subjectivity out of selection. And if that means sometimes the best team doesn't make it, I am perfectly fine with it. At least they will have been given the chance to but missed out via their own results. The same can't be said of the system right now.

I would far rather have the best team not qualify because of their own results. Rather than the best team potentially not qualify because another team has a more prestigious name than them or because they were never given the chance to qualify.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/09/18 9:05:34 AM
#419
Almost game day!

Also if anyone is interested, Eric Winston (89 Tackle) is available for trade.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/09/18 6:46:34 AM
#138
ChampionCloud posted...
FFDragon posted...
I've been to Beaver Stadium quite a few times, yes.


I'm stunned they are 100,000....

But fine, fair enoygh.

Do you think UCF could remotely survive playing in 5 of those this year?


Have you been to UCFs stadium? It's actually quite intimidating in its own right. It's called the bouncehouse because the stadium is prone to very considerable shaking when fans jump in unison.

Honestly though, stadium size isn't always an intimidation factor. I've been to the shoe multiple times. I've been to other big stadiums in American sports. Zero American games I have been to have the same noise factor as an English soccer stadium despite the the soccer stadiums usually being way smaller.

I'd imagine being in a more confined stadium with fans closer to the field and being noisier is more intimidating than just 100k+ stadiums

It's hard to say how UCF would do but they have won their big bowl games which is all we can use since the big schools won't schedule them and the Big 12 didn't let them in. UCF have 5 conference titles in the last 10 years and 2 NY6 bowl wins in the last 4 (Fiesta and Peach) and are the second largest college for number of students in the country. They clearly belong in a power 5 conference, its just getting one to take them that is the problem. They likely hit resistance in both ACC and SEC from the close by teams as it impedes their recruiting so Big 12 is the most realistic option except they turned them down only last year.

How they would do once in is unknown, history suggests a few years to acclimitise but who knows. I would think they would become a big team fairly quickly if they were let in because not being in is basically what is holding them back right now recruiting wise
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 11:36:53 PM
#41
I wish they started these games earlier or did them on weekends. I know it's the same every year but this game is going way too late for a weekday night and isn't interesting enough for me to stay up for the rest of the game. Granted it has picked up considerably in this second half.

Hopefully Georgia win purely because they deserved to make the playoffs unlike Bama
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 10:26:36 PM
#188
Lol and that's a make up mistake (although I'd have won anyway). Had a Priest heal himself with Auchnai on board to push himself into Fireball lethal range. Wouldn't have mattered as I had Pyroblast in hand on T9 and had deliberately frozen his Auchnai turn before to prevent him healing.
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 10:15:20 PM
#187
Welp, that might be one of the most idiotic ways I've lost an Arena match

Drafted a Kazakus deck. Played Deck of Wonders off a Shifting Scroll. Several turns later forgot that it would block Kazakus activation
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 8:48:53 PM
#16
Yeah, anywhere in that 4-9 range would have been fair with a far higher chance of being on the bottom end of that range. The following teams had no business being above them which puts them at least 9

Washington - Zero ranked wins until the title game coupled with 2 losses
USC - Only ranked wins came against the same team (Stanford who had other bad losses), crippling loss to Notre Dame
Miami - Woeful season end with crushing losses

Then it's debatable whether you have them above any of the following: Penn State (2 losses but weird/close ones), Wisconsin (1 loss and no signature wins), Auburn (Signature wins but 3 losses), Ohio State (Signature wins but an atrocious loss) and Alabama (1 loss and no signature wins)

I don't think you can make a case for them above any of the other 3 at selection time unless you value unbeaten above everything else.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 8:25:15 PM
#13
FinalistCloud posted...
ShatteredElysium posted...
Also, can't put my finger quite on why but I'm really disinterested in tonight's game unlike previous years. Not sure if it's because I disagreed with the teams present or because it's an all-SEC game but I'm just struggling to care about it.

I know the winner will be national champions but this year just feels so weird, neither team will feel like national champs to me even though they will be (and it's not because of the UCF thing). They just feel really underwhelming.


They are unquestionably the 2 best teams in America. They will feel like the Champions because they are just better. With the exception of Auburn (and OU) they just mauled everyone they played when healthy. And being that Auburn is a top 10 team and they were on the road... that doesn't really hurt.

These are the ONLY (besides UCF I guess) teams in the country besides debatably Penn St., that have literally 0 holes in their resume.

And as much as I love Penn this year and what they did, they never once looked as bullet proof as either of these teams from an eye test standpoint.


I honestly do not feel like it's unquestionable. Especially in Alabama's case where they literally did not have an impressive win on their schedule until the playoff started.

Their pre-playoff resume is:

3x 4 loss teams
5x 6 loss teams
1x 7 loss team
2x 8 loss teams

The only time they played a team better than 4 losses, they lost comfortably.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 8:20:20 PM
#11
The last thing I'll say unprompted on the UCF thing is that the biggest joke isn't that they were excluded, that is understandable given the circumstances. Sure I think they should have made it but I can understand why they didn't.

The biggest joke is that they had them all the way down at 12 and had continually underranked them all year. There was never a time that the committee had them even level with the AP or Coaches, nevermind above the AP/Coaches. There were times where multiple teams above UCF lost, UCF won and UCF stayed the same rank whilst teams below UCF leapfrogged them.

Week 11 stands out a lot. UCF won and stayed stationary at 18. Michigan State won that week and jumped 24 > 12. USC won that week and went 17 > 11. Auburn won that week to go 14 > 10.

In week 14 they leapfrogged Miss State (8-3) over UCF 16 > 14 for beating 4-7 Arkansas by 7 whilst leaving UCF (10-0) stationary at 15 for beating 5-6 Temple by 26.

The committee is a fucking joke and they need to seriously look at the people on it and replacing them.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 7:52:16 PM
#8
Also, can't put my finger quite on why but I'm really disinterested in tonight's game unlike previous years. Not sure if it's because I disagreed with the teams present or because it's an all-SEC game but I'm just struggling to care about it.

I know the winner will be national champions but this year just feels so weird, neither team will feel like national champs to me even though they will be (and it's not because of the UCF thing). They just feel really underwhelming.
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 7:38:38 PM
#7
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 7:29:10 PM
#4
I was going to wander down to the victory parade but saw how crowded it was and thought fuck that, I have beers in my own house

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTDwpYUWAAACegu.jpg
TopicNCAA Division 1 College football National Championship Topic:Do you believe that
ShatteredElysium
01/08/18 7:23:59 PM
#3
This is the topic for the UCF national championship victory parade that is going on right now, right?

The governor of Florida even signed something today stating that UCF will be recognized as the 2017 College Football National Champions in Florida!

(Edit: He seriously did btw, that's not me trolling)
TopicI want some recommendations for fun, cooperative board games
ShatteredElysium
01/07/18 12:57:18 PM
#46
So I'm trying to find a decent game, not necessarily co-op but can be, that doesn't require a large table (Or possibly no table) as I have a group of 5 to 6 coming over on Friday but don't have a table as I basically live in a bachelor pad and either eat on the sofa or at the kitchen bar area

Could even be on a console but not hidden agenda as we played that last gaming night

At recent game nights we have played Pandemic, T.I.M.E. Stories, Scythe, Hidden Agenda and Munchkin for reference
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/07/18 8:25:44 AM
#414
Washington already has 100+ tackles? That guy is a machine. How does it do it year after year when his rating is so low
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/06/18 12:03:34 PM
#154
Well that wasn't as planned

Just ending up losing an Arena game through milling myself with Aluneth and dying to fatigue damage. Malcheazar gave me Cho and the Priest pulled it from me so my hand got greedy as fuck with overpriced Malcheazar legendaries and spells I couldn't play. Entire game was just a cluster of my hand being full and me trying to work out if it was better to clear space (which would be immediately filled) or play a high mana card and end up milling 3 cards. In hindsight I should have played more high mana cards and just milled cards

Kicker being I had Pyroblast in hand with Priest under 10 health on my last turn but I knew he had stole and played Counterspell from me last turn
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/06/18 10:43:48 AM
#151
Thought I drafted a busted Mage deck that would be lucky to get me any wins but this is my first new meta mage arena and I see that explosive rune is as ridiculous as it sounds so I'm 3-0 basically entirely from controlling the board with that.

Like how is this remotely balanced at 3 mana. It needs to do like 4 damage not 6.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/05/18 12:39:55 PM
#388
Didn't know that but either way 408/50 is not remotely close to the split I had set in my strategy. Doesn't bother me, was just posting it to show Madden doesn't always follow the strat you set.
TopicBoard 8 National Football League League (B8NFLL) Season 9: Regular Season
ShatteredElysium
01/05/18 10:10:25 AM
#382
Ranlom posted...
Interesting Note: The Hawks are garbage.

Hey KCF, are you leaning more towards the run this season? Or is it just kind of working out that way


I think sometimes the AI just ignores your input anyway. When I had Courtney Lewis I had him and Jamario Thomas as a 40/60 split or something similar (maybe 35/65) with a run heavy offense. What actually happened was Thomas got 408 carries and Lewis got 50. I had wanted them to share so I could keep both happy but Madden said nope! So I had to release Lewis which was of course followed by Thomas getting injured for the full year basically
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/04/18 9:27:18 PM
#115
Man I hate that gift nonsense. I predominantly play on mobile. I rarely ever use the desktop client as play is so much quicker/easier on touchscreen

Can't they like just hand it to you on login
TopicHearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 3:34:39 PM
#73
I actually thought that adventures were semi scripted with AI draws? Least it felt that way
TopicOfficial College Football Playoff (and New Year's Day bowls) topic.
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 3:13:21 PM
#215
Trying to think what an 8 team playoff would have even looked like this year

1 Clemson
12 UCF

4 Alabama
5 Ohio State

3 Georgia
6 Wisconsin

2 Oklahoma
7 Auburn

They likely flip 8 USC and 7 Auburn right? And this is also assuming they let in UCF at 12.
Topicso how frustrating is Drakengard 3, exactly
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 2:51:04 PM
#17
Actual scratch that, I do know. It's one 1 hour of gameplay per DLC and each one costs $6. I think there's maybe 6 in total but you can buy it all together for $30. If they ever did like it all for $15 I'd grab it but I'm not paying $30 for 5-6 hours of gameplay
Topicso how frustrating is Drakengard 3, exactly
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 2:48:26 PM
#15
I don't know as I never bought the DLC due to the price being ridiculous
TopicOfficial College Football Playoff (and New Year's Day bowls) topic.
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 2:47:02 PM
#212
SmartMuffin posted...
these maniacs won't stop until we have "January Madness" with 64 teams, thus destroying college football completely

I literally told you people five years ago that this playoff system would solve nothing and satisfy no one, and here we are!


It's still better than what we had. I wouldn't ever want it to be more than 8 teams but would even take 6. Some years 4 is enough, some years it isn't.
Topicso how frustrating is Drakengard 3, exactly
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 2:42:49 PM
#13
iiicon posted...
c8ohfL1

it's done

should i replay nier first, hmm


Is the DLC on sale too?
Topicso how frustrating is Drakengard 3, exactly
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 2:42:01 PM
#12
Xiahou Shake posted...
digiiiiiiiii posted...
somebody spoiler tag me what the deal is with that boss

It's a lengthy rhythm game segment where missing one note means you instantly die. Also the only visible indicator of when to press the button is the boss's attack animations. Also the camera spins all over the fucking place to throw you off. Also you get no indicators at all for some notes, and the very last one is out of rhythm, invisible and almost inaudible... and comes after the final dialogue of the game starts.


My ex wife plays Hatsune Miku on the highest difficulty without issue. Yet she had trouble with Drakengard 3 and I had to do it for her. It took me like 3-4 hours to do it legit and then the last inaudible note screwed me over so I used a YouTube video to do it after that.

I swear the timing for some of the notes changes. Sometimes it accepts early or late input then other times it's like NOPE

I still hear those damn chimes and the pacing now just thinking about it.
TopicOfficial College Football Playoff (and New Year's Day bowls) topic.
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 1:47:12 PM
#203
Clemson's loss was a weird one though. On the road on a Friday night with a back up QB

Penn State were arguably the best team that just did it to themselves. Kinda like a few years back when we lost to Michigan State by a last possession field game in a shitty rain game where we inexplicably refused to give Zeke the ball. Was our only loss of the season but enough to dump us out of playoffs. Kinda silly that our best team in recent years didn't get in but then we have gotten in other years when we shouldn't
TopicOfficial College Football Playoff (and New Year's Day bowls) topic.
ShatteredElysium
01/02/18 1:08:39 PM
#200
It should have been Clemson, Georgia, Oklahoma, UCF. This was the ideal year to put in a non power 5 too where there was no clear 4th team.

The real problem is the format sucks. 4 is not enough teams. How many seeding upsets have we had? Quite a few. So it's clear that anyone in the top 4 can usually beat each other. And virtually every year there has been a debate around that 4th spot so the 5th and 6th teams probably had a shot too
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