Lurker > LinkMarioSamus

Mario and Halo the big favorites, just as I would have imagined.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

ctesjbuvf posted...

6.5

It's pretty good for a Zelda game, as has been said, but those never had story as the main drive.

Compared to other Nintendo games though!

I still feel like the vast majority of video game stories amount to little beyond explaining why you go from Point A to Point B and I grade them mostly on that basis, hence why I gave Ocarina a 9. It's not entirely fair to judge them like films. Some of the only exceptions would be stuff like Metal Gear Solid 3, Shadow of the Colossus, and maybe some stuff I haven't played like Silent Hill 2 and Planescape: Torment. By that logic Zelda is more like Metal Gear or FF than Mario.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

8?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

FFX is not beating either Zelda game.

Though on the topic of how CT/Melee was "supposed" to go, maybe Arkham City dropped a good bit between 2015 and 2020? It did one percentage point worse against TLOU than the lol x-stats suggest, and those stats are already probably favorable to Melee. Maybe KH2 benefited from Melee's rallies in R2 against TLOU?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

It went from "criticize this person and you must be racist/sexist" to "criticize this person and you must be liberal/conservative".

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Based on early polling this is just as tight as I would have hoped, with Borderlands 2 the big loser so far.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I don't take the CT/Melee match seriously as far as contest strength is concerned one iota. It's just that we generally agreed CT would get somewhere in the low 60%s against an unrallied Melee and the TLOU/Arkham City match in GOTD bears that out.

I seriously want to ask how it was being a KH fan during the timeframe that 358/2 Days, Birth by Sleep, and 3D came out, aka between KH2 and the compilation re-releases. I said earlier I get the feeling all the KH characters have been punished for it in contests while in a games contest setting KH1/2 are still fine (I can't even say "first two games" because technically II is the third game, what on earth?).

Melee declining over time would at least fit what the polls of the day tell us. Does anyone think BOTW would have a particular adverse effect on TP's strength?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

The only reason I can think of for Smash to be such a decisive favorite here is entirely due to Nintendo's stock being much higher than the other three games' developers. Otherwise you'd think based on GOTD at least Smash/Witcher would be debatable.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

True, but even then KH2 directly outperformed its 2010 loss to TP against a presumably stronger opponent - and direct extrapolation had Melee getting 52% on TP in 2010 since, y'know, they both shared a common opponent (you could maybe argue SFF getting in the way, but eh). Plus taking CT's and Melee's other matches from that division plus Arkham City/TLOU from GOTD at face value, Melee is projected to get 38% on CT which is frankly really good.

Not entirely on topic, but has Melee suffered a popularity hit on this board due to its rallies in 2015? Or heck, maybe its rallies and the general "devotedness" of the Smash fandom cause the entire series to be anti-voted in contest matches? We probably should never hold another series contest ever again but if we did I bet Smash would do well to avoid a doubling from Mario.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Dancedreamer posted...

Media harping on Kamala Harris for not using blutooth headphones.

...Anyone who ever calls the media "Liberal" again can shut the fuck up.

They do this with anyone and everyone. It's just that Trump had the amazing combination of being so bombastic and having a VERY devoted following who followed his every word so it seemed especially pronounced back then.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I'm of the thought that TLJ created whiplash among fans of TFA due to being so different from it and that caused people who hate both movies to say "see! We told you so!", and that's without taking into account actual bigots who felt more emboldened than ever to pick on the ST (maybe because of it being the first SW movie to come out during Trump's presidency?).

The problem is that The Force Awakens is a string of action sequences with clear reverence for the original trilogy while The Last Jedi evokes scenes from the original trilogy with the specific purpose of turning them inside out. In other words, the latter film intentionally sets out to corrupt The Empire Strikes Back in a similar fashion to, say, Metroid Fusion for Super Metroid or Wind Waker for Ocarina of Time. So maybe TLJ would have worked better if it wasn't the EIGTH film in a franchise.

Also I think a big reason people didn't like how TFA was a seeming retread was because it undid the original trilogy, and TLJ just went even further with that.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

The ST is only cool to hate because fans of pre-Disney SW had their own ideas etched in mind for the franchise and hated how Disney yanked it all away from them. The only reason this is even remotely understandable is due to the franchise's Long Runner status, and even then these people act like the franchise is a total stranger to disappointment which completely flies in the face of its mainstream perception.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

It's not like ~38% on Chrono Trigger without rallies is bad or anything, it's just we somehow expect Melee to be top tier in these contests when it's a step or two behind at best. Once upon a time we probably would have debated SSBM vs. LTTP, now it's more likely Melee would lose to Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Heck Melee already did worse against KH2 in 2015 than TP did in 2010, so it's either TP > Melee or KH2 somehow boosting between 2010 and 2015 (I think I've read that the game's reputation increased with the release of the HD Final Mix versions but otherwise why is there a good reason to believe this?).

Somehow KH1 and KH2 both look so much better in the 2015 x-stats than the 2010 ones despite the characters' continual decline. Maybe all those spinoff games hurt the brand's image but not so much KH1/2? And maybe KH3 stunk up the joint royally in GOTD because GFAQs refuses to play all those spinoff games which are really not because they're necessary to understand KH3?

Maybe this isn't the best place to say this, but has there ever been an instance where back-to-back KH games were released on the same system? The way I see it the order of release goes by system like this: PS2, GBA, PS2, DS, PSP, 3DS at first. I know the compilation re-releases exist now but before then how on earth was someone supposed to keep up?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

But as movies the ST is a good deal better. A bunch of Wookiepedia pages could have given us what the PT gave.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Thank god no one here is accusing the ST of being woke. Since it arguably fails even at that.

Too progressive for anti-progressives and not progressive enough for progressives. Have fun turning Finn into a racist caricature, having Poe be taught a lesson in recklessness by a white woman, turning Poe into a drug dealer, and then marginalizing every woman's role in RoS.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Yeah TFA was just a sequence of action setpieces without much in the way of story connecting them. Like, hey let's throw in a Death Star ersatz even though we're supposedly looking for Luke Skywalker! I mean, it's not like the Death Star was what the entire plot revolved around in A New Hope or anything.

TLJ was a small-scale indie drama burdened by having to follow TFA and RoS was pure contractual obligation project. It's amazing how poor both Abrams and Johnson fit for the franchise, almost like they were only hired off of previous successful sci-fi films they made without asking whether Star Trek '09 and Looper were adequate enough audition tapes.

Still better than the prequel trilogy though. This franchise is a wash as far as films are concerned.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

In all seriousness I think Melee would have been a force to be reckoned with if a games contest was held between 2005 and 2007. Then Brawl came out and might have set Melee's contest strength back a decent bit. Would Smash threaten 40% on Mario if another series contest was held?

Also uh when was the last time Melee won a debated match without LFF or offsite assistance? Against Final Fantasy X in '04? Ooh such an achievement. And yet FFX would have still gotten 52% on Melee in GOTD going by direct extrapolation, despite the site's shift towards Nintendo in the meantime.

I also want to point out how going by the 2010 and 2015 stats, assuming a constant Perfect Dark means 2015 Call of Duty 4 is worth ~35% on its 2010 self and assuming a constant Melee means 2015 Halo 3 is worth ~41% on its 2010 self.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Oh no I did not go THERE!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Oh great poor direction was one of my biggest gripes with Shang-Chi. And Black Widow. Possibly even Captain Marvel as well.

Oh well good for him anyways.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

squexa posted...

Exercise of the day: rank Melee, FFX, WW, TP from strongest to weakest.

Melee, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Final Fantasy X?

Speaking of which, maybe best not to open up this discussion again but while I have no faith in TLOU2 actually amounting to anything in a contest setting, it seems to be "divisive" more along the lines of Wind Waker or Twilight Princess than, say, The Last Jedi. Imagine if the Internet was more active when the two Zelda games came out.

I guess that just says words about the popularity of Zelda, that even "divisive" installments are still incredibly popular (and not just on this site, either). That might be why this site is more known for Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger stuff performing well - that distinguishes GameFAQs more, much to the chagrin of this poor board.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Okay, I kind of feel like the MGS decline is overstated when it's probably only really 1 and 4 that did so. Granted that admittedly is two significant games, but it's those particular games that are the problem and not the whole series. Though yeah the characters definitely went down so I'm mostly only referring to the games themselves. I feel like 3 at least increased and 2 might have also.

In other lol x-stats news, comparing the 2010 and 2015 stats makes it seem like Persona 3 declined in strength between contests! Though that's mostly after taking into account Chrono Trigger possibly being too high.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I saw the What Happened? of this game. Production-wise it sounds like the unholy lovechild of Metroid: Other M and the Ghostbusters reboot if something like that is even possible. Hard pass.

Obviously I can't judge the game, but I can judge the circumstances that led to its existence. Good riddance Inafune.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I should not have placed Ultimate here. I thought SSBU/Witcher would be debatable but yeah.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Mostly I was curious about Witcher/FFX/MGS3. Maybe I shouldn't have included SSBU, but I was having a hard time thinking of something that could effectively be enough on their level to challenge them. Feels like MGS3 > RE4 would probably be a consensus pick nowadays.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Yeah.

Speaking of MGS in contests, did MGS3 have to face three rallies helping BioShock? Part of me feels like BioShock may have overperformed by as much as 7 percentage points there.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Nominate Rayman 3

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Honestly the whole problem with MGS4 mostly seems to be hype backlash from people who didn't get into MGS until later and/or weren't swept up in the hype initially.

Most negative retrospectives of the game tend to criticize its reliance on fanservice. Something which a longtime follower of the series would not have a problem with at worst and outright relish at best. It's one of the most divisive games ever made for precisely that reason. Personally I remember really liking it but thinking back I can understand why someone might find the plot ridiculous and even otherwise the game definitely had its ups and downs.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I also don't think TLOU2 is going to be an anti-vote magnet per se. It would probably still fare poorly in a contest environment, but that's probably because this site barely cares about TLOU as is. Honestly part of me feels as if the reason stuff like Halo and GTA were perceived anti-vote magnets is not necessarily because the denizens of this site actually hate those games but more because they might be perceived as too popular so people like trying to get them to lose.

Speaking of TLOU in a contest setting, would it sound about right for Dark Souls to be worth ~45% on Metroid Prime?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Despite what I just said about Twilight Princess, the game is still popular enough within the general Zelda fanbase (though this perception may be due to some prominent YouTubers like KingK considering it the best 3D Zelda game if not the best Zelda game period) that it should be able to handle Bloodborne no problem, at least on a site that loves its Zelda. Bloodborne seemed to be worth ~46% on Mass Effect 2, which got only 39% on MGS3 in 2015 and I don't think anyone would take MGS3 over Twilight Princess.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I still like how there's this perception TLOU2 was not well-received by the online gaming community all because of those leaks and review-bombing on release. The game still won a lot of audience choice awards and became one of the best-selling titles of 2020.

Thing is, that could easily be because of 2020 being such a bare year for gaming that a critically-acclaimed sequel to an already-popular game would be such a big deal no matter how divisive it is. It's not like Twilight Princess is a whole lot different TBH. That said, even considering this TLOU2 seems to have largely endured past the pre-release controversy, though maybe for that very reason.

EDIT: I'd still pick the lower seed in all those matches except for MGS4, and even then it could still easily win.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

A lot of the games from the 2015 contest released in 2012 or later will be hard-pressed to return to be fair. The Witcher 3 and Bloodborne are like the only two that have meaningfully gained in strength since then. Probably shouldn't expect high seeds for the likes of Metal Gear Solid 4, Twilight Princess, and Oblivion either in addition to Fallout 3.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Poor Ulti.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Well there are plenty of games that got into BGE3 that only did so due to being board favorites. No disrespect to fans of those games, but stuff like Persona 3, The World Ends with You, and Skies of Arcadia really shouldn't be making it in at the expense of stuff like, oh I don't know, Link's Awakening, Star Fox 64, and Yoshi's Island. I guess those games just don't have hardcore enough fanbases.

Honestly that darned top 100 list from 2014 did prepare me for a lot of the snubs. No Mario Kart, no Star Fox, no Mega Man Classic, no God of War, no Arkham games, Yoshi's Island and Link's Awakening failing to crack top 90. I remember when I used that list to rationalize incorrect picks in the 2015 contest like Persona 3 > Dragon Quest VIII, Mario 3 > Pokemon Red/Blue, Resident Evil 4 winning its division...

BTW if you take Arkham City/The Last of Us from 2020 and plug that result into 2015, Arkham City gets 31.99% on Melee. Chrono Trigger and Arkham City were in the same eightpack so I'll take every match there at face value (did Melee's rallies help drive up MMX's % on FFX?), meaning Arkham City is projected to get 24.15% on CT. This projects Chrono Trigger to get ~62% on Melee...which was apparently on track to happening before the Smash rallies arrived. Well I guess those adjustments had a point.

I'm not a fan of the idea of Chrono Trigger being worth 54% on Ocarina even in 2015 though. That whole division looks too high in the stats (yes, I know we've been over this whole rigmarole before regarding how I can't make stat adjustments. I'm not asking for them, just pointing out how it seems to me), making it look like a knee-jerk reaction to Ocarina supposedly looking bad the whole contest. Oh no Ocarina had two lackluster victories against two of the most acclaimed PS1 RPGs on a site that goes gaga over those kinds of games, help! Plus we had never gotten a good read on Suikoden II anyways, so we had no idea what its strength was "supposed" to be.

Speaking of Chrono Trigger, maybe it and its characters (or at least Crono anyway) never actually dropped or increased in strength and other characters and games fluctuated in strength around them? Actually scratch that since CT lost to Mario 64 twice in 2009, but it still feels like people were vastly overstating the degree to which Crono declined in 2007-2013. The 2018 contest suggests Crono still being about equal to Pikachu which explains his 2013 run well enough. I guess we all just had a hard time believing Pikachu could be a beast hiding in plain sight. Heck, maybe that 2010 match against Snake wasn't just Snake's sprite tanking his performance?

The only question I have is how Pikachu is just that darn strong considering its divisive nature within both the Pokemon and Smash fandoms. Maybe just recognizability.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

plasmabeam posted...

My thoughts exactly. The standout classics and recent hits are what will dominate the nominations for the next contest. I expect the Wii/PS3/X360 era to struggle mightily next time around.

Yeah there's no earthly way we get stuff like Fallout 3 as a 3 and Metal Gear Solid 4 as a 7 next time around. I get the feeling Super Mario Galaxy and BioShock won't suffer that much though, but they might still be hard-pressed to make the top half of the field in seeding. I was about to imagine the idea that something like Shadow of the Colossus could be a 3 but I suppose a bunch of newer games should be able to get 2 and 3 seeds to prevent that.

I've been going over lol x-stats for the 2010 and 2015 games contests and, well, FFX is projected to do WORSE against San Andreas in the latter than in the former. What in the world happened to FFX? Apparently a Japanese poll from last year flat-out named it the best game in the series, but I imagine on this site it'll always be a ways behind VI and VII at least.


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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

To add a take of my own, I feel as if I like the MCU actors so much I'm inspired to seek out their other stuff. Feels good having seen No Country for Old Men so I know Josh Brolin for more than just playing a big purple man.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Okay, I think I get it now. I feel like what I brought up regarding Black Panther is one of the most common criticisms of the movie but maybe not so much?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I guess half the problem is the amount of time I spend on YT makes me feel like some of those guys are bigger deals than they actually are. Figured Schaffrillas would at least be the kind of guy who'd be popular around here at least, but I guess not.

I had some more to say on the Black Widow movie but the only thing I remember is that I found Yelena's character arc too reminiscent of Captain Marvel's in her movie, mostly regarding the setup of her being un-brainwashed and turning against the one who controlled her. At least Yelena was a more interesting character though. I still feel like that movie was held back by being part of the MCU (it never did anything to convince me that it was worth revisiting the immediate aftermath of Civil War, for one thing)

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

As if I don't. I figured as long as I didn't bring up Captain Marvel (the movie in any case) I'd be fine, but apparently not.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

colliding posted...

I regret defending you in the past. Now I'm just convinced you're doing a bit

I figured as long as I bring up some different things, but eh.

Also yeah I clearly don't remember these Marvel movies that well. When watching What If I was asking myself if Stane was responsible for orchestrating the hit on Tony Stark in the movie. What a dumpster I am.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Not entirely on-topic but I figured this is as good a place as ever to get some things off my chest regarding some YouTube reviewer takes on the MCU I disagree with:

-In his review of What If?, Schaffrillas asked why Party Thor was enough of an emergency for Nick Fury to call Captain Marvel over when the events of The Avengers weren't. I'm pretty sure The Avengers aren't a thing in Party Thor's timeline so Nick probably genuinely has no better options.

-I know I shouldn't take The Critical Drinker seriously at all, but he slammed Black Panther for rolling back T'Challa's character development from Civil War as if what he did in that movie somehow justified him as king material. I get why this would be a problem but wow. Then again he seemed to have trouble wrapping his head around the film's very premise (or at least that of Wakanda being a technologically-advanced nation whose inhabitants still fight with melee weapons I think), so probably not a good example.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

8?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Doesn't exactly help.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Yeah like, Fire Emblem: Awakening got a 6 seed that contest. In GOTD it was already down to a 7, so it'll probably be hard-pressed just to make another all-inclusive games contest.

On that token, I feel like a lot of games from 2006-2009 that had high seeds in 2015 also will suffer in that regard whenever we hold another all-inclusive games contest. I'd be surprised if Fallout 3 made it to the top half of the field seeding-wise (in a 128-game contest) despite it having a 3 last time. It went from being THE game of its generation to little more than the blueprint for Bethesda-era Fallout. Who knows though?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I'm reflecting back on the 2015 contest and there were an astounding amount of games released in 2010-2015 in that bracket. That all but confirms that most of the 2020 contest's high seeds are coming back if we held an all-inclusive games contest now.

In such an event, I think the most-likely 1 seeds would be Mario 3, Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Breath of the Wild, Final Fantasy VII, and Super Mario World. Still trying to figure out the 2 seeds.

By comparison there were surprisingly few games released between 2001 and 2009 to make the 2015 bracket, and a LOT of games with NTSC releases between 1998 and 2000. And virtually nothing before that.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

With any luck this is going to be quashed relatively quickly. I'm honestly more worried about the potential for a different viral outbreak. The only reason this hasn't been contained faster is because tons of world leaders are idiots and people are willing to believe whatever lies suit them.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i agree with this, but at the same time, it's extremely ironic that the people who support these celebrities often also make a big deal about how "hollywood should stay out of politics" (see all the whining about meryl streep's golden globes acceptance speech).

I think it's mostly people hate the idea of Hollywood celebrities using award ceremonies as platforms to get their political viewpoints across. There certainly is some of that though.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

People don't play RPGs for the story, right?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

1

Something about taking your goddamn clothes off.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?