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And on most people it is not attractive.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.

I don't think I've ever see a guy who was more attractive without facial hair than with it, imo.

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you are becoming america's ayuyu

I assume that Menji meant that The Avengers midnight showings were not on par with its eventual numbers, which they weren't. They weren't even on par with The Hunger Games. Unless you mean that he's stating the obvious, which I'm not sure it would be, especially to someone that doesn't follow film news.

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Not a fair comparison. Not only was tickets much cheaper back then (even with inflation in mind) but you didn't have home video at all so you had to see it in a theatre if you wanted to see it period... Meaning they could have theatrical runs lasting years aswell as multiple re-releases.

This, but also don't forget that even if you adjust for the average ticket price at the time, epic films such as Gone with the Wind and Ben-Hur would have cost three to four times as much as other movies of that era, since different films were priced differently (to an extent) back then. Adjusting for inflation, some of the major Cinemascope films would have cost ~$30 to see in their initial New York runs. Also, there was a smaller population, so an equivalent number of tickets sold in 1955 and 2012 would indicate that the 1955 movie was much more popular

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As long as 3-D tickets were around half of the ones sold, I think The Avengers is still ahead of The Dark Knight in ticket sales for this weekend (assuming the estimate holds.) TDK should probably still outgross it over all (It will almost certainly end up being more popular adjusted for inflation/3-D/population size) as movies today are very front loaded, even in comparison to four years ago.

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I don't think that is true. The thing about any medium is that living in the present usually seems a bit worse than it actually is because it often takes time to appreciate hidden gems and to scour for them.

I wouldn't say that necessarily. I would consider this the Golden Age of Television for example (although not much from the 50's has been saved so it would be hard to compare even if I could), and video games are also at the top of their game as far as I know. I admittedly, have gotten out of gaming recently, so I'm just going by the impression that I get.

Avengers isn't the problem by the way, it is Transformers.

Avengers has been built up for nearly a decade with some good to great movies.

Tansformers is just trash with explosions shoved down our throat.

This topic should have been that movie series, not this one.


But why does a movie have to be bad to have a bad effect on the industry? Jaws, which is one of my favorite movies of all time, had a largely negative effect (in my opinion) in that it helped popularize the blockbuster mode of wide releasing films. Prior to this, films were released in various markets across the country little by little, and they largely relied on word of mouth (and thus quality) to spread. Now with wide releases, studios are more reliant on getting people in theater seats right away on opening weekend, and to do that before a movie has even been seen by the general public you can't rely on quality. This does nothing to effect my view of the film as a film, just my view of the film as an industrial object, two views which I separate when discussing the film in this way.

Being a good movie does not remove a film from its role in a certain system, nor does being a bad movie mean a film is more at fault for the system it's a part of

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I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't go see any movie (assuming it's good that is.) I said myself that I plan on seeing it. I just wish that The Avengers wouldn't have the industrial effect that it probably will. It's not like I said I wanted it to bomb or anything (which people on this board wish for routinely without being psychoanalyzed), just disappoint the industry, none of which has any effect on whether people here will see it, or whether or not its good. I'm not against the movie, I'm against its effects. It's not like the financial success of the movie has any bearing on its quality, nor would I let it affect my enjoyment of the film.

go to a film festival, watch several engaging movies from a number of countries, then come back and tell us how Hollywood is ruining the film industry

I see contemporary movies from a wide variety of countries almost every weekend. I'm talking about American film (my favorite national cinema) which is in the worst straits its seen for a while. There have *always* been engaging movies from a number of countries. Now there's less from one of the major film producers (Hollywood.) That's going to bring down the average as a whole.

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Maybe you should be whining about Empire Strikes Back instead of The Avengers.

Jaws and Star Wars had a largely negative impact on the film industry, and that's really where our current problem started. Doesn't change the fact that both are fantastic films (more so Jaws, IMO.)

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So you judge the movie on the basis for why it may have been made, rather than for the actual quality of the movie?

I judge the movie's quality based on its quality and I judge its economic effects based on its economic effects. The two are separable.

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Once again, I'm not passing any judgment on the quality of the movie, just on its larger industrial effects. There's been plenty of bad works of art/cultural products that have had positive effects for their industries, and plenty of good ones that have had negative effects.

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rather than marvel, who is just making movie adaptions of their own material.

Are most comic book films actual adaptations of their source material? I was under the impression that most of the time they weren't.

No there wasn't.

http://www.filmsite.org/boxoffice2.html

Most of the movies listed here aren't intended to be quality films for adults?

No, it's doing well because it's one of the best movies to come out this year.

I'm not denying that, at least amongst mainstream releases.

So you've only seen one of the Marvel movies leading up to The Avengers and you're still gonna complain about it being a cash-in? Totally makes sense.

I shouldn't have to see a movie to have some understanding of the industrial factors that allowed it to get made. A cash-in isn't necessarily bad.

I understand what you're trying to say, but hoping The Avengers does bad regardless of quality is kind of silly.

I never said I hoped it did bad, just that it dissapointed and wasn't a massive hit. I don't care about its creation so much as what it will encourage other studios to do. I'm going to go see it anyway for someone's birthday.

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how many of the avenger movies have you seen?

I've seen Iron Man which is by all accounts the best of the bunch, and while it was good, I would consider it underwhelming if that's supposed to be the quality that studio films are aspiring to. None of the main creative personnel appear to be the same for The Avengers except for one editor (Director/Writer/Cinematographer all did not work on any other Avenger films) anyway. I've see plenty of other studio productions made under the same system though (Harry Potter/Transformers 2/Pirates 4, etc.) Except for The Dark Knight and the Toy Story sequels, they've almost all been "good" at best.

True, but where did you get the idea that The Avengers is just a cash-in? Marvel's been dedicated to the idea of a united cinematic universe leading up to the Avengers since the first Iron Man. Yeah, they want to make money off of it, so what? They're also doing it for the fans.

Even if the people involved are just doing this for the fans (which is not something that bodes well for future films' qualities), I doubt Disney sees this as anything more than a franchise machine. It's not like it disappointing at the box office would mean that fans wouldn't get to see it. It would just ensure that franchises take a hit in the future.

I mean, it's not like The Avengers is the only movie out there like this and I'm complaining about some isolated incident. Wouldn't everyone agree that this is clearly part of a trend? Who knows, maybe this is the one big franchise movie that would have been made irrespective of contemporary trends, but I don't think I can be blamed for finding that hypothesis somewhat doubtful.

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If the movies are good why do you care?

Because overall, the movies (of the current studio system) are not good, or at least not better than passable.

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A movie can be a sequel AND good. There's no law that says otherwise.

It can be, but if you're making a sequel just to make a cash-in, quality is not going to be a particularly high concern.

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I was hoping it would disappoint so that people would stop making these endless sequels/cash-ins that are ruining the film industry. I mean I have nothing to say about the quality of the The Avengers, but it just perpetuates a system where film studios just rely on franchises to make money, instead of trying to make good movies*


*Before someone comes in with a smart comment, I'm not implying that film studios were ever not primarily concerned with money, just that there was once a time when quality films for adults were considered the way to get that.

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Rope is not actually shot in one take, but it is edited to appear that way.

I would say Hitchcock's principal films (according to general consensus) are, in chronological order,:

The Lodger
Blackmail
The 39 Steps
The Lady Vanishes
Rebecca
Shadow of a Doubt
Lifeboat
Notorious
Rear Window
Vertigo
North by Northwest
Psycho
The Birds

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Polk getting a lot done doesn't make him a good president, especially if one of those things was getting us involved in an unjust war with Mexico.

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15 with 4:01 left.

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The song tells a harrowing tale from the perspective of a heartbroken lover, portrayed in the first-person by Eddie Murphy. He begins by questioning, perhaps rhetorically, why the female with whom he is currently participating in a relationship would want to cause him emotional pain. The narrator goes on to list extravagant items he's purchased for her, including, but not limited to: Champagne, Roses, and Diamond rings. Despite the items that the narrator has given, the female still insists on staying out all night (presumably in the company of other men). The narrator then poses perhaps another rhetorical question as to what he should do to remedy this depressing situation. The listener is then repeatedly informed that the narrator's "girl" wishes to attend nightclubs and house parties at all hours of the day and night. Later on, the narrator points out that he's acted as a voyeur and observed said female whilst she was present at an unknown nightclub. She was seen providing her telephone number to virtually every male patron of the club with whom she came in verbal contact. We are then informed that the narrator's female companion never arrives at their place of residence in the evening. Her absence is believed to be caused by infidelity, presumably with one or many of the men with whom she became acquainted earlier that evening. The narrator then goes on to wish that his female companion would have sexual intercourse with him, instead of the many other men with whom she has been copulating.

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Oh, nvm, it's changed. Was saying stuff "double chin," f*****" instead of Safe, Eliminated, etc.

This is still the most f-ed up reality tv wiki page though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Bulgaria_4

"Oh someone quit, couple close votes."

Gets to week 6: "What the ****?"

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idol_%28season_11%29

Those are certainly some description for this week.

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People say that Manos is the worst movie on MST3K, but I might have to actually give the honor to Red Zone Cuba. At least Manos has a somewhat coherent plot, and Torgo, who is if nothing else interesting. Red Zone Cuba is just confusing and incoherent, and no one seems to even be trying, like in the scene where Anthony Cardoza's character pretends to get water in order to escape and he says, "Guard. Water. We need water." in the most monotone voice imaginable. It's one thing to be a bad actor, but it's another to not even try. Red Zone Cuba does have Cherokee Jack though.

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If I e-mail someone and cc it to be sent to someone else and then the original address can not be delivered to, will the cc'd person still get it? Thanks.

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Considering that 20% or so of GameFAQS probably doesn't have an HDTV, I would imagine that amongst the overall population rates of people who don't have one are at least 30-33%, albeit I'm not sure how easy it is to buy a standard TV in a store anymore.

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Aren't most HDTV over $150? That's what I would consider affordable, considering I bought a standard TV for $80 in 2006.

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My mom's also the only middle-aged person I know who has an HDTV, and she only got one because she moved.

Edit: That's weird. My second post copied itself into this one.

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Admittedly, it does seems like TV companies are forcing people to pay more by not making as many non HDTVs anymore. I barely see anything in K-Mart besides HD ones, and they're still not as cheap as my standard one was when I bought it, even if you adjust for inflation.

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I know one person my age that actually owns one. Doesn't most of GameFAQS have like no job? How are they affording this? Do people not know what an HDTV is?

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I don't mean to imply that anything in the movie was directly inspired by Occupy, just that it's a possibly fortuitous connection that helped the movie's popularity.

I did add in a comment in the last paragraph about the books though. I thought I mentioned them, but I guess I edited that line out.

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http://rfurse.blogspot.com/2012/04/of-teenage-slaughter-as-cultural.html

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Don't think that either. Commies write the textbooks.

And liberals are the ones being indoctrinated?

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Forcing kids to buy lunch from the school should be unconstitutional too.

What does this have to do with anything? Who's proposing this?

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So apparently the Department of Education is planning to force kids to buy fruits and vegetables for lunch at school. And people think Justice Scalia's broccoli argument is irrelevant? There are so many unconstitutional laws, strike 'em down!

Does this cost extra? If not how is it different than saying schools are making kids buy a tray for lunch. It's not like they're making anyone eat them (even though they should obviously be encouraging kids to do so.)

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Well that's like saying games should be scaled as well. AAA titles should be $60, and B-level games should be less. Lots of games ARE less than $60, but there is still tons of crap at $60.

Video games are scaled. Portable games, downloadable, and budget titles all cost less. AAA titles make up a much bigger proportion of video game discussion than AAA films do for film discussion, so the scaling of video games is not that obvious. And much of the crap that gets originally budgeted at $60 goes down in price after a while, or if it's not selling well, like the most recent Rayman game (not that it's crap except in terms of sales). This would obviously happen on a faster pace with films, as video game sales have a much longer tail than box office numbers do.

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So I just saw a movie in Los Angeles, and it was $13.50. This is more expensive than it was in Manhattan a year ago. Since everything is usually more expensive in Manhattan than anywhere else in the USA, I'm going to assume that this was the result of inflation. Hurray! Inflate that dollar away.

Movie tickets are unfortunately $13.50 in Manhattan as well. Movie studios/theaters should really have scaled pricing. It's silly that all movies cost the same to go see, 3-D aside. $13.50 is Ok for something like The Hunger Games or a major prestige picture, but for B-level movies, and movies that have been out for several weeks, I think prices should be down to $10 or lower (with proportional changes for prices in different parts of the country.) This is the way films used to be priced back in the 50's. A major roadshow film release like Oklahoma! or Around the World in 80 Days would cost $30* in a prime New York theater, while you could see a B-movie double feature for less than what you would pay* to see a single one of them now.

*Adjusted for inflation

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Huh. It did. I could've sworn there was some big controversial upset regarding that. Assuming I was wrong, then yeah, Casablanca, easily.

Casablanca winning Best Picture was actually a noticeable upset at the time. It was actually only the third pick behind The Song of Bernadette and Watch on the Rhine which were the major prestige pictures that year.

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In theory, yes. In the real world that actually exists, however, the media supports the politicized choices of the government and makes the civil public focus on some other insignificant story, letting the government do whatever they want unopposed.

And then, because the government has no incentive to make their public record easy to understand, they will force the average person to go through a complicated process just to obtain the records in the first place, and then the records are way too complicated to understand. There goes your transparency.

Further, even if the public started complaining directly to the politicians, the government could put a "private" system in place, like the Fed. Create a private institution that has all the benefits of a government organization, and is just as mandatory as a government institution, but now the government can say that the institution is private, so they can't open it up to the public. And then the election comes around so the media hypes up that insignificant story I was talking about and everyone forgets about civil liberties and personal choice.

Why would the media be more subservient to the government than to any other large establishment figure? Do I think the government would deal with things in a necessarily clear way. No, but I believe that they would deal with things in a clearer way than the private sector does in this case.

How do you feel about the FCC?

The FCC is a different case. I don't agree with its decisions, since they are usually based on unconstitutional views on obscenity, but I don't object to the body itself, since its jobs is to monitor the public airwaves, which certain companies have been given the privilege to use.

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The private entity is more accountable because people can refuse to use it.

In theory, yes. In the real world that actually exists however, it would be very hard for a film to get released in many theaters without a MPAA rating. I don't see how the studios would be "forced" to use the government's rating if it did exist anyway. Like I said earlier, I don't think the ratings should lead to enforcements on how movies are show. The ratings would just exist on a government web site somewhere. If someone wanted an alternative system they would be free to make one themselves.

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Don't just tell me that you know the names of the people making the ratings, tell me how the average citizen can influence the government ratings board more easily than the internal one.

If the board was making clearly politicized or otherwise illogical decisions the media/civil society at large would have someone to direct their complaints to. As a public entity, the board's decisions and discussions would almost certainly be open to public record, so the average citizen could actually understand why films are receiving the ratings that they are.

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The American president having to be born in America is to prevent a foreign power from interfering in America's affairs. Regardless of whether or not it's still necessary, it's not just there to ban foreigners because Americans don't like them.

Having a rule stating that the Miss Canada/Universe participant can't be a fully post-op transgender person does not appear to serve any purpose other than banning transgender people because the organization doesn't like them.

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So if you have a movie that is banned from theaters, then you can say that the theaters have censored the movie. The country, however, hasn't censored the movie. In the scope of the theaters, the movie is banned completely. In the scope of the country, the movie is still available.


The country banning a movie would definitely be far worse. But I don't support any sort of ratings/classfication system that has direct bannings and I said so earlier. I just believe that the government giving ratings is better than the current system, since under the current system there is no one to be held accountable for what ratings are given. Ideally of course, obscenity laws would be declared unconstitutional and we could eliminate any such system.

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Sure, it won't be as accessible as on the big screen, but no one is stopping your message from spreading.

The fact that it is not as accessible is stopping the message from spreading. I don't think most people would argue that a school district banning Huckleberry Finn because of "racism" counts as censorship and that does much less to stop the message of the book than say Blockbuster refusing to carry NC-17 movies does (or did back when Blockbuster was relevant.)

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Exercising your right to not to trade with someone does not "silence speech."

If it hampers speech than of course it's silencing speech. Whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant.

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It's not censorship if there's still a legal way to obtain the content.

Anything that silences speech is censorship, regardless of if there is some way to get it or not.

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Would you care to give an example?

I just gave one? Theater chains, and retailers like Wal-Mart/Blockbuster use their economic power to pressure film studios not to release NC-17 films since they won't carry them.

And this is a pretty minor example. Any company that pushes other companies out of the field to get a monopoly would clearly be an example of force. A lot of the stuff that Standard Oil and its ilk used to do would surely qualify.

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Censorship requires the use of force, and government claims a monopoly on the use of force.

Maybe in your mind that's how you think things should work, but in the real world, the private sector uses force all the time to get its way. Sorry that that doesn't fit your view of how the world should work, but unfortunately that's the way that it does work.

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Except the MPAA ratings are non-binding and fully voluntary. A government censorship panel would be literal censorship, whereas the MPAA is a voluntary association.

The MPAA ratings are censorship, just of a de facto kind. Sure they might be theoretically different, but in terms of real world effects it definitely results in censorship. It might be technically voluntary, but there's plenty of theaters/chains that won't screen anything that doesn't have an MPAA rating.

If there was a government system in its place, the members would at least be known and accountable to the public

No one even knows who any of the people on the MPAA ratings board are except for its head. If it was a government board, the people would all be known, and would be accountable to the public, if only to a minor degree. It's hard not to be more accountable than if you're invisible.

Yeah, you don't go to jail if you sneak into an R-rated movie when you're 15

Nor do I think you should if a movie was rated R by the government. The ratings would just be that: ratings. Not proscriptions. I'm not proposing that movies get banned like they are in other countries.

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Can we at least agree on this aspect: Self-regulation is ALWAYS better than government mandated regulation?

Nope. I would much prefer a government censorship board to the MPAA for example. As it is, the MPAA ratings board is anonymous and accountable to no one. If there was a government system in its place, the members would at least be known and accountable to the public, which would be a large improvement over the current system, where any sort of change is almost impossible to implement.

Of course, no censorship board would be the theoretical best alternative, but as obscenity laws are still not considered unconstitutional, the dissolution of a national system would simply lead to multiple state/local systems instead

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Yes, how dare people cover a movie on par to have one of the biggest opening weekends of all time.

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