Lurker > ImagineUsngAlts

DnDer posted...

Bad journalism.

"Far-right commentator" is used to give so much cover to white supremacists, Christian nationalists, and outright nazis.

I'm so goddamn sick of people soft-peddling these people and their hate.

Yeah, even that is giving him too much credit.

darkknight109 posted...

Things I've never said for $400 please, Alex.

"good logic".

darkknight109 posted...

Yet when I asked you if Barack Obama was fair game to be mocked and scorned after his death for his drone campaign in Iraq - something that caused more death and destruction to innocent civilians than the most prolific serial killers in history - you balked because "he's a politician".

Your stance on this is wildly inconsistent.

So you can't tell the difference between leaders continuing a war that the entire government is involved in but not openly advocating for hate and discrimination and fucking nazis. Now this is something actual MAGAs do. "Hey, nothing wrong with being a white supremacist that advocates genocide. Dem presidents killed people during war!"

darkknight109 posted...

You've proved that Charlie Kirk supported partisan violence, which is not in dispute.

I asked you for proof that he ordered it. I chose that word for a reason.

Again, talk about being obtuse. If you really making fun of the death of someone that supported partisan violence targeted at marginalized groups and then died from it is beyond the pale, then there is no helping you.

darkknight109 posted...

So the people who currently follow Kirk - and there are a lot of them - are going to hear your insults and realize they've been duped and they're following an extremist? That's the angle you're going with?

I'm torn between questioning whether you've actually thought two minutes into this plan or thinking you're just lying to yourself because you want to be able to insult people you don't like without consequence, presumably because you want to make MAGA as angry as they've made you.

They're obviously not going to change their minds just because some Dems go "he sucks but his death is horrible" either. The idea is simply getting the notion that people like Kirk doesn't deserve respect into the ether.

Although it's funny you talk about making people angry since that's clearly your primary goal.

darkknight109 posted...

This is objectively not true.

Biden won 2020 on the back of disaffected soft-Republican voters who were sick of Trump's bulls***. Kamala infamously made a point of highlighting all the former career Republicans who were backing her because they recognized Trump for the menace he is.

I've yet to hear a single person say, "I used to be a Republican, but then I heard someone online post a funny photoshop of Steve Scalise getting shot and I changed my voter registration the same day."

You are clueless. Biden won because everything about the disastrous 2020 was able to be blamed on Trump. And even then he barely won. Obama was similar after dubya was hated and blamed for the recession. You don't get that "harshness" and the blame game IS how elections are decided in America. Dems need to direct and redirect every blame onto Republicans just as Republicans do the same to Democrats. Even if Democrats are actually at fault there's no "sorry, my bad", it should be continued redirected blame at the GOP. US society has shown that this is how their elections are decided. After a relatively successful stint of calling Republicans weird Harris tried reaching across the aisle and see how that turned out.

darkknight109 posted...

Let's go with things I've never said for $600, Alex.

Unlike you, I've not mischaracterized those who disagree with me in this topic. I've never called you, nor anyone else who doesn't agree with me, a right-winger, never mind straight up labelling you a Nazi. I've not suggested that you're arguing in bad faith, because I don't believe that you are. I *have* pointed out that you're advocating for doing the exact same childish sociopathic bullshit that Trumpers do, but that's not the same thing.

But apparently I can't expect that same level of discernment or respect from you. Probably shouldn't be surprised, given what you're arguing in favour of. Anyways, since you've been reduced to flailing and posting other people's pithy zingers from a website owned by an actual Sieg Heiling Nazi, I see no reason to continue this any further. Feel free to make a response if you really want to get the last word in, but I'm not going to be responding to any more of your posts absent a good reason.

This is some bullshit weasel wording. Your entire argument is mischaracterizing and claiming making fun of dead awful people that harmed society makes them the same as the other party. I don't think you're a right winger either but your concern trolling for them is much more right wing than simply "doing something that the right wing does".

darkknight109 posted...

So if Charlie Kirk was a politician he'd be off limits? Is that the standard you're going with now? You seem to be moving all over the place on this point.

Talk about being obtuse. The key factor here is obviously being a nazi advocate that pushed hate.

darkknight109 posted...

If you ignore the substantive list of dictators who were imprisoned and/or executed by your own country, sure.

Oh, and also the fact that just because someone wasn't prosecuted or convicted of a crime doesn't suddenly make them not a criminal.

That was after they were overthrown. Before that they "aren't criminals".

Right, so Kirk not being prosecuted or convicted doesn't mean he's not as bad as a criminal which he'd be in other developed countries.

darkknight109 posted...

I also think gay people aren't criminals despite the fact that being gay is illegal in some countries.

You seem to be pushing this weird idea that if someone does something that is legal in their country but illegal anywhere else, they're a criminal, which is a fascinating theory. Completely unhinged, but fascinating.

By your logic gay people in countries where it is illegal are criminals and thus it's fair they're treated like one and if they don't like it they should get their laws changed.
That's the logic of the idea you're pushing that the laws of the country they're in is the one that's relevant.

darkknight109 posted...

Which isn't her joking, it's her making a statement. Unless you're suggesting she didn't actually mean it, which we both know is not the case. People aren't supposed to laugh at that line; the intended reaction is a cheer from the people who agree with her.

So far you've characterized her statement as "light joking" then "harsh joking", and now a statement that the guy isn't worth mourning. You're finally getting somewhere in the vicinity of acknowledging the truth, so there's that.

It is a joke, she said "thoughts and prayers" before that. It's an amusing contrast between a somber statement and then an insult. The harshness is what makes it more of a jab than a joke but it's not actual cheering nor saying he deserved it.

darkknight109 posted...

I'll take things I've never said for $200, Alex.

It's basically what you're doing.

darkknight109 posted...

Yes, and you're trying to help spread it on the left, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You're taking all those bizarre caricatures that Trump-humpers pretend are actual left-wingers and trying to make them an real thing.

I meant that the balance is now entirely on the right. What harm would leftists spreading a bit of flames for a fucking Naiz when everything is so extremely to the right currently? It's like saying the left shouldn't gerrymander because everything will be corrupt now when it used to only be the right.

darkknight109 posted...

No, I've said exactly what I want several times - sane governance to return to the US. Nothing you've said makes me think you or anyone who thinks like you is up to the task of doing that.

So then the left shouldn't gerrymander because "that's not sane governance".

darkknight109 posted...

The irony that you're calling me a right-winger while posting links to a literal Nazi website is not lost on me.

Anyways, I'm not giving fucking Twitter traffic. Repost it here or don't bother posting it at all, because I'm not clicking on any of those links.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/55453d26.jpg

darkknight109 posted...

You have any evidence that Charlie Kirk ordered violence, rape, and murder the way a dictator does, Mr. "Dictators aren't actually criminals"?

https://jacobin.com/2025/09/kirk-posobiec-political-violence-far-right

Take a look, for instance, at a 2024 interview he did with Jack Posobiec, a far-right commentator known for spreading the #Pizzagate mythos and for his association with various out-and-out white supremacists, none of which stopped Kirk from employing him for years in his organization Turning Point USA and cohosting a podcast with him. It was one of my favorite conversations Ive ever had with him, Kirk told listeners after interviewing Posobiec for his book Unhumans:The Secret History of Communist Revolutions (and How to Crush Them), which argues that right-wing dictators were right to torture, kill, and otherwise repress the Left, and that todays conservatives might have to take a page out of their book.
That is not hyperbole; it is literally what the book argues and is about.

And there is no indication that any of it gave Kirk any pause as he allowed Posobiec and his coauthor to hold forth unchallenged about how the Spanish fascist leader Francisco Franco and the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders between them were great men who had a fathers heart for their country and were their countries equivalents to George Washington, whose great deeds are only remembered badly now because an omniscient, all-powerful left has infiltrated education and entertainment and rewritten history. Franco simply had to do what he did including concentration camps, mass rape, torture, and hundreds of thousands of killings because he was fighting a war, and doing it the same way that [William Tecumseh] Sherman fought a civil war, they explain.
Kirk didnt push back on any of this. As Posobiec explained that he endorsed killing his political opponents the unhumans of the books menacing title Kirk personally talked about how conservatives needed to stop being nice and said he wanted to emphasize the bit about how to crush them, meaning the modern liberal-left. He talked about how he wanted to see a right-wing revolution.
The only remotely challenging question Kirk posed was about whether it was truly possible to eliminate their opposition without using violence. Posobiecs reply was that the United States could merely rerun the earlier Red Scares and round up and expel thousands of people whose politics they disagree with the supposedly moderate solution and that the only times violence has been used is when right-wing forces were faced with violence already. The keen-eyed reader may note that this is a thinly veiled permission structure for conservatives to engage in political violence, if they can construe any violence against themselves as having been inflicted or incited by their opponents.
Are communists channeling the demonic? Kirk asked at the close of the interview. His subjects explained that communists, a label that to them describes ordinary liberals and Democratic officials, operate in the same way as Satan and demons do.

This is not an isolated example. We have an idea of what kind of revolution Kirk was thinking of when we look at his critical role in trying to help Trump illegally overturn the 2020 election. That didnt just include using his massive platform to spread lies that Trump had won the election but also busing people into Washington to try to storm the Capitol and stop the certification of the election.

darkknight109 posted...

Take your purity test bullshit elsewhere, dude. My political beliefs are not so feckless that I need to be goaded into mocking a dead guy to validate them; I'm sorry you can't say the same about yours.

This is the typical projection from right wing types. The one purity testing is YOU. "Make fun of a dead Nazi? That makes you a Nazi yourself!" That's your whole argument.

darkknight109 posted...

Hey, look at that - another classic MAGA line. I usually get this one when talking to Republicans about how ridiculous American gun laws are. Odd that you keep parroting their approach yet still insist you're not like them.

Anyways, I'll tell you the same thing I usually tell them: one does not need to contract cancer to understand how fatal it is. The fact that I don't live there doesn't mean I don't keep up with what's going on in the US; due to the outsize effect it has on global affairs, it's kind of a necessity.

That's rich coming from the guy whose getting all his lines from the playbook of "both siding" enlightened centrist right wing concern trolls.

darkknight109 posted...

So you keep saying, but you haven't bothered to explain why.

Do you think if you just, I don't know, insult people harder that all of a sudden sanity will return? How the fuck does that work?

It doesn't. No one who was brought up conservative has ever switched political allegiances because they heard a really good zinger from someone mocking a corpse. People change political allegiances when they think the other side can offer them a solution to their problems.

As I've already said, the message that hate advocates and extremists like Kirk need as much disdain as possible rather than treating them as just another commentator which is what's gotten the far right their power.

Nobody's switching sides from the left wing showing decorum and giving impotent "this shouldn't have happened but..." either. Being harsh however can help draw in the crowd that's drawn to zingers and "savage!" which American society has shown there's way more of than there isn't.

darkknight109 posted...

If an anti-vaxxer who died of COVID had instead gotten vaccinated, they probably would have lived.

If Charlie Kirk had a change of heart and advocated for better gun control, he still probably would have died because one person is not going to change the gun hysteria that America has been in thrall to for decades.

It is decidedly not the same scenario.

If Kirk wasn't a major well known controversial talking head speaking in a region where guns are everywhere he wouldn't have been in that situation.

It is decidedly the same scenario.

darkknight109 posted...

So let's say Barrack Obama was assassinated tomorrow. Shot in the throat, same as Charlie Kirk.

Then out come the redcaps mocking his death, saying how glad they are he's dead, laughing at him for fighting gun control but ultimately dying to a gun, the works. You decide to call one of them out - they point out that Obama oversaw an extensive drone campaign in Iraq that killed hundreds if not thousands of civilians.

Is that aboveboard in your world or no?

You haven't learned a thing have you? Still comparing standard politicians with nazi advocates. An actual accurate comparison to Kirk would someone that's Pro-Hamas, constantly advocated that annihilating Jews in Israel is what's needed and helped donate to Hamas, and then got picked off for it. That person would get sneered at even if all they did was "talk".

darkknight109 posted...

You're taking the piss now, surely.

"Dictators are not criminals?" Really? Ignoring that this is blatantly incorrect, are you seriously attempting to advance that argument?

Obviously they're not criminals in their own countries given that they own that country. And "the country they're in" was the whole reason you say Kirk isn't a criminal despite his speech being crimes in many other developed countries. Continuing to show your own disconnect.

darkknight109 posted...

Yes, and that's the point. "Jokes" aren't supposed to be "harsh", they're supposed to be funny.

Gretchen wasn't calling him a Nazi bitch so that people would giggle - she was mocking his death by saying, in essence, that he got what he deserved.

Again, at least have the intellectual honesty to be real about what she was saying. We can do without the "What she actually meant was..." Trumpist bullshit, thank you.

Harsh savage jokes can be funny. No, "thoughts and prayers, Nazi bitch" isn't saying he got what deserved, it's saying he's not someone worth mourning for. The one trying to speak for others is you.

darkknight109 posted...

Oh yes, the guy who has spent the whole topic talking about what a piece of shit Charlie Kirk was and how the left shouldn't be copying MAGA because MAGA are trash is totally a right-winger. Brilliant deduction, Holmes.

And no, I don't think the two things you mentioned are equal, that is just more strawmanning from you and I'm getting a bit annoyed with it. Two things can both be wrong without being equally wrong. If I say petty theft and murder are both bad, that does not mean that I consider the two actions equal.

It's called concern trolling. "Oh, MAGA is so terrible! That's why you should lie down and accept them because not accepting defeat is what MAGA does!"

The point is that the things she said about Kirk are jokes at its core. The "jokes" of MAGA are just straight up endorsements of violence that they just put the joke status over.

darkknight109 posted...

Got some bitter medicine for you here, bud - pointing out how you're eagerly going down the same road MAGA has trod is not "same things, both sides". I get that people don't like having their hypocrisy pointed out, but it's needed from time to time. I may not be from the US, but the rest of the world benefits from the US not sliding any further into insanity than it already has. I'm not doing this because I think "both sides bad"; I'm doing this because I don't want the left to turn into blue MAGA.

Be better.

No, it literally is same thing both sides. The only hypocrite here is you. The sliding insanity is all on the right, decorum isn't going to help shift it back the left now, fighting fire with fire might. Like gerrymandering which is much closer to blue MAGA which you apparently support yet you're pearl clutching at this.

darkknight109 posted...

Exactly who I've been talking to this entire topic - those on the American left who, as I've said several times so far, represent the last part of the American political system that's still somewhat sane. Again, I have no sympathy for Charlie Kirk and I'm certainly not doing this for his sake; I'm doing this for the sake of those in the US who represent the only hope of a return to good governance.

The right abandoned years ago the idea of calling one another out for their excesses and instead fell into the trap of purity tests and hatred. We don't need that shit infecting the left as well.

The tiny impotent part that can't do anything? So you just want to feel good and pat yourself on the back? This is like telling black people during Jim Crow to not make a fuss because you want it for their sake so that they don't join the obnoxiousness of the rest of the country including the "loud and obnoxious civil rights movement" around them.

darkknight109 posted...

Nope, I do not, because those things are morally wrong.

You're talking about two different issues now - these examples are criminalizing "conduct"; what we're discussing is criminalizing "speech". The two are not going to have the same standards applied to them.

And making fun of the death of someone whose harm exceeds that of criminals and who would be a criminal in another country isn't morally wrong. You're changing your acceptance of him getting his death made fun of because of the laws of the country which would be the same as changing your acceptance of someone getting charged for abortion or lgbt due to the laws of the country.

darkknight109 posted...

I mean, I've already stated my personal standard - no mocking death, no exceptions - but I acknowledge that I'm not in the majority in holding that view.

But no, it has nothing to do with government approval. All of the people you named previous are people who used violence, rape, and murder to achieve their goals. Charlie Kirk did not. Whatever you think of his views - and they were vile, no arguments there - all he did was talk. Reasonable people should agree that that should not earn him a bullet to the throat.

He contributed to the rhetoric of violence, rape, and murder. Like dictators who didn't personally get their hands dirty. Again, nobody's going to cry at a KKK member's death. Nor would they cry at someone making fun of and harassing a raped and murdered child victim's grieving family snapping and killing them.

darkknight109 posted...

"I don't want to behave like MAGA, I just want to do the exact same thing that they're doing." Are you even listening to yourself anymore?

That exact same statement applies to gerrymandering which you support. Meanwhile you: I'm just going to die on the hill of pearl clutching for a dead Nazi who supported the very sort of violence that killed him. I'm definitely less of a far righter like him than the ones making fun of him!

darkknight109 posted...

Wrong. I am trying to preserve whatever sanity is left on the American left, because the American right is very clearly a lost cause. Again, I find it frankly alarming that people in this topic seem to have absolutely no issue aping MAGA's behaviours, because of "fighting fire with fire" or some bullshit like that.

This will not give you any advantage. This will not return your country to sane governance. There is no gain to be had in behaving like a toddler with rage issues - not unless you want to slap on a red cap and go join the other guys.

Nothing about fighting MAGA and the far right behooves you to act like them. If anything, doing so gives them the ultimate victory, because it proves that their approach works and is the way that politics is supposed to be done. I hope I don't have to explain why that's a disastrous line of reasoning.

I am not doing this out of any concern for Charlie Kirk or any others of his ilk. I do not expect, nor want, anyone to venerate him or remember him as anything other than what he was - a hateful troll who learned, in his last moments on this plane of existence, that the hate and anger you send out into the world have a nasty tendency to get reflected back at you in ways you neither like nor expect. But perhaps that lesson is one that more people should take heed of - even those whose politics are diametrically opposed to Kirk's.

You're not even American so you're speaking out your ass with no clue what you're talking about. The people screaming to uphold decorum have failed. The "lost cause" are the ones that are in charge and the majority. Fighting fire with fire is a possible solution out. Yeah, go tell the Nepalese youth that their corrupt dictator is a lost cause so they shouldn't be stooping as low as them, that they might as well just be part of the other guys. The allies might well have put on swastikas when they bombed the nazis and imperial japan.
darkknight109 posted...

Come on, dude, don't be obtuse. This is not the same situation and you know it perfectly well.

If Herman Cain Awards were awarded to people who got stabbed in the night by vigilante groups hunting down the unvaccinated, then you would have a similar scenario. That is not what happened.

No, it's you being obtuse and hypocritical, trying to deny it's the same scenario.
Kirk claimed gun deaths are to be expected to keep the 2nd amendment alive. He claimed empathy is a weakness. And now he got both of them. Just like Herman Cain recipients got the deaths from the disease they mocked and scoffed at.

darkknight109 posted...

Are you saying that people should be allowed to mock a murder victim if they're right-wing or trying to get people to sign on to a revolution? I'm starting to get whiplash trying to piece through this post.

How about "a murder victim can be mocked if they're part of a hate group that actively pushes discrimination for groups to be oppressed and has significantly contributed to systems that do so to the point they've harmed just as much if not more than most criminals"? Dictators are technically not criminals.
darkknight109 posted...

"Thoughts and prayers, bozo" is not what she said, though; "Thoughts and prayers, you Nazi bitch is. That's not amusing or joking, that's just a straight up insult.

If you're going to defend her statement, at least have the intellectual honesty to call it what it is. You're allowed to try and defend her statement as within the bounds of what should be tolerable conduct, but don't try to insult people's intelligence with the, "She was only joking, guys!" angle - again, that's a MAGA trick that they use to defend Trump's bulls*** when he says something outlandish. You're better than that.

It's the same thing. Nazi bitch is just harsher. And saying she feels bad for the bullet is definitely a joke. The difference is that the "jokes" Maga use are just straight endorsement of violence and hate like "we should do them like Hitler did!" while then saying they weren't being serious while this here is just making silly statements like "thoughts and prayers, loser!" or "oh no, anyway". Again, the fact that you think these are equal is more an indication which direction you lean more towards.

darkknight109 posted...

Again, why are you using MAGA as a role model? Why are you looking at the sort of bulls*** that Trump, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, and, yes, Charlie Kirk himself trafficked in and saying, "Hey, we should do that too, except on the left!"?

Remember when we all pointed at Trump's insane blather and recognized it for what it was? Can we go back to that? Why are we now saying, "They can do it, so we should too!"?

Just because MAGA has done its best to carve out a space where they can behave like rabid baboons doesn't mean you need to emulate them.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9c897950.jpg

darkknight109 posted...

At no point have I suggested "reaching across the table" to MAGA and the far-right. This is just straw-manning.

Then why are you pearl clutching at a nazi's death getting made fun of? Who's that supposed to appeal to?

darkknight109 posted...

But Kirk's not from my country; he's from the US. And what he said was legal there.

And yes, that does make a difference. He followed the laws as Americans have set them. That means American society, as a gestalt whole, has said that what he did is acceptable - or, at least, not unacceptable enough to face formal punishment. If you disagree, get the laws changed. If American society is as on your side as you seem to believe, that should be very much doable.

Holy shit so you're not even being serious, you're just trying to play devil's advocate. "Um, it's legal in your country so it's not ok to make fun of him due to the laws in your country thus it somehow is morally different than if the laws were changed to make him a criminal. If you don't like it, change your laws" So I guess in places where abortion is illegal you support people getting charged for it? You support LGBT people being arrested in places where it's illegal?
You: https://twitter.com/reactjpg/status/1272042932036603913

Unknown5uspect posted...

Everyone should defy this order and it's sickening that there are so many that won't.

Not just that but getting fired.

darkknight109 posted...

The difference between Kirk and the other examples that you listed is those other people are criminals; Kirk, to the best of my knowledge, has never committed nor been charged with any crime. He stayed within the bounds of what society has said is acceptable conduct, vile and scummy though that conduct was.

You want to mock a criminal who died? Fine. If I'm honest, I dislike that too and I don't do so myself, but I will fully acknowledge I'm in a distinct minority on that one, so fill your boots - the odds you get fired for it are pretty close to nil. But Kirk, for better or worse, was not a criminal under US law.

A KKK member isn't technically a criminal either. One can acknowledge the harm they caused society is even worse than many criminals. It seems you're just basing your belief here on social values that have been pushed by the supremacist elites, not by actual logical values people can reason out. And that itself is part of the problem. The system, that you're upholding the values of, is the problem right now.

darkknight109 posted...

Perhaps my sense of humour is broken, but explain to me the "joke" behind "Thoughts and prayers, you Nazi bitch. Because that strikes me as a less of knee-slapper, and more of a "I'm glad you got killed" statement.

So where's the humour? What's the part I'm supposed to find funny?

The issue here may be the harsh profanity but "thoughts and prayers bozo" and the bait and switch from the somber phrase to the insult is amusing. It's not exactly celebrating it like going "good!" or "did a service to society", it's showing disdain.

darkknight109 posted...

I've asked this several times, to several different people, and so far no one has answered: what advantage are you hoping to gain from being allowed to act like antisocial troglodytes the way MAGA does?

And no, this logic does not apply to "acting like left wingers shouldn't gerrymander" - that's a ridiculous strawman, given that I've literally said the exact opposite in this topic and explained my rationale as to why.

Not wanting to see the last bastion of relative sanity in American politics descend into the same sort of braindead madness that has consumed the Republican party wholesale is not "Same thing, both sides."

It should be obvious. The same reason people don't feel bad about the mocking of deaths of criminals. Because the message is that these people's actions and beliefs are as vile if not worse than criminals. That left wingers shouldn't be forced to constantly gag themselves, making them not just look but be weak and impotent while their oppositions can do the flashy and savage jabs that it's clear most of society is drawn to. It gives the same sort of message as gerrymandering. Far Right ideology need to be shunned and stamped out. There's no trying to reach across the table with them.
Trying to insist so enlightened centrism.

darkknight109 posted...

To the best of my knowledge, Nazis are not illegal in my country. We do restrict hate speech, and I support those laws, so perhaps that's what you mean.

To your question about "punching a Nazi", let me ask you this: are you saying you support violence against people like Charlie Kirk? People who espouse hateful views, but have not broken any laws in the US? Think very carefully before you answer that question.

And what kirk does would be hate speech so he'd be a criminal thus mocking his death shouldn't be an issue. The fact that you put more stock in the corrupt American laws than the actual idealogy of things says a lot.

darkknight109 posted...

Has it? Then can you point me in the direction of another public, non-criminal figure whose murder was widely mocked and uncontroversially so?

"non-criminal" huh? So you can understand some groups that it's acceptable to make light of their deaths of but you want it to be government approved. You don't see the problem here?

darkknight109 posted...

Again, to what end? What the fuck do you want to do by removing basic standards of civil behaviour? In what world does that get the US back on a path towards sanity and reasonable governance? Explain what you're hoping to gain from this other than balming your own anger.

And no, me wanting the Democrats to retain some standards of sanity and decency doesn't make me a Republican. Looking at MAGA as role models to be emulated rather than psychopaths who should be taken as an example of how not to conduct oneself would make me a Republican, but I'm not the person in this conversation doing that.

A society that doesn't view people like Kirk that deserve anything but disdain instead of bending over backwards to cry tears for him is a good one. Making light of horrible people's death is far less associated with MAGA and Republicans than gerrymandering is. At some point fire must be fought with fire. And you are the person trying to go to bat for far right extremists by playing playing concern troll. "Don't fight back against the bully!"

darkknight109 posted...

Herman Cain award winners died eminently preventable deaths because of their own decisions and refusal to acknowledge basic medical science. Not the same situation.

As above, I don't celebrate anyone dying, but I understand the schadenfreude when it comes to Herman Cain Award winners.

And Kirk died a preventable death because of his own hateful rhetoric and contributing to violent gun culture. Very similar situation.

darkknight109 posted...

It's not. You're misconstruing what I said. Here is is again:

"Again, those comments would get you fired from most jobs, regardless of who the victim was."

I didn't say that people shouldn't mock dead politicians; I said that they shouldn't mock anybody, regardless of who they are. And yes, right-wing extremists do fit in that group.

You're not wrong that Charlie Kirk's extremism has been normalized, but you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it. There's a frankly disturbing number of people on the right who admired him and liked what he said. Mocking his death without consequence is simply going to encourage those people to do the same, because all they're going to read from that is, "It's OK to mock the deaths of people I disagree with and doing so should not be a fireable offence."

Yeah, no thats not true and never was. Professionals have mocked the death of dictators, terrorists, rapists, murderers, dictators, child/domestic abusers and other sorts of criminals and people that harm society regularly and was no harm no foul. Mocking a KKK members death wouldnt have been seen as scandalous in the past. The fact that youre just treating Kirk as a standard politician rather than an activist of hate and domestic terrorism is part of the problem. Those people already think that and theyre already being shown its true. The only people being limited here are left wingers.

You say that he was not simply someone with noxious views, then go on to list all his noxious views. Do you not see the disconnect there?

Having noxious views would be a random low info voter or anonymous shitposter. Kirk was an active professional activist who built organizations, endorsed actions, and targeted children with them. The fact that you cant tell the difference between those is crazy.

I'm not acting like he's "equal" to victims of racial injustice, save in the idea that people who mock his death are probably going to lose their jobs, and understandably so. That he's a piece of shit doesn't really factor into that equation.

Again, listen to yourself. Your argument has shifted from "It was just a light joke" to, essentially, "We should be allowed to mock his death because he's a right-wing extremist." You know who uses both those arguments on the regular? Fucking Trump cultists. Is that really the road you want to go down? Using redcaps as a bellwether for acceptable behaviour?

As above, dictators, terrorists, abusers and other awful people do acceptably get their deaths mocked. You are treating him as equal when youre acting like hes just a normal activist instead of someone that pushed hate and violence himself.

Yes, these are just light mockings of his death. They arent outright saying he deserves it, or endorsing that it should happen more to other people like him. They arent cheering for it. Its jokes meant to show hes not something worth feeling sorry for. And your this is the logic of trumpers, dont be like trumpers! is Both Sides pearl clutching concern troll logic that applies to acting like left wingers shouldnt gerrymander because then theyd just be like right wingers.

Unlike gerrymandering, there is no political or strategic advantage that comes from mocking a man's death. There is no reason why the left should be involved in normalizing that sort of behaviour.

Showing its acceptable to treat nazi hate groups with the disdain they deserve rather than normalizing them as regular activists is something that society widely needs right now. Are you against the punch a Nazi belief? You seem to be from a country that has Nazis illegal in the first place so do you believe they should be legal because its just regular views that shouldnt be censored?

Yes - that's bad! That's my entire point, chief. Doing shit things because "the right did it first" is a crappy way to conduct yourself. We do not - and should not - use the right's bad behaviour to justify doing the exact same thing on the left.

People mocking, say, Paul Pelosi's attack wasn't vile because they were targeting Democrats; it was vile because they were mocking someone who was the victim of a violent attack. Well, guess what, Charlie Kirk was the victim of a violent attack. So you need to ask yourself at this juncture, are you against treating death and murder as a joke, the way the Republicans do? Or are you OK with it, as long as it's someone you don't like? Because if it's the latter, you're a lot closer to the Republicans in your line of thinking than you'd probably like to be.

Mocking the deaths of people that visibly actively harm society and spread hate has always been acceptable. Youre still trying to compare bog standard politicians who never advocated for violence with hate groups who died from their own rhetoric.

Equating "being against Republican-style bad behaviour on the left" with "being a right-winger" is a frankly ridiculous reach. It is perfectly possible to fight against the rise of fascism in the United States without behaving like a callous asshole, the way the Republicans do after any one of these events targeting someone on the left.

Being fine with the state of things simply because Dems at least have decorum and are going the high road while they dont do anything but watch as Republicans regress the world back to the 1910s would basically make you a Republican. Taking the high road and decorum isnt working for Democrats. All its doing is limiting left wingers while right wingers run amok doing whatever they like. Its time to fight fire with fire.

And I'll point out that if you consider Charlie Kirk's great sin to be inciting violence against those different from him, it's not a great look to be celebrating violence done to him.

This is peak enlightened centrist tolerate peoples intolerance. You against making fun of Herman Cain award deaths of covid deniers because making fun of regular people dying of covid is reprehensible?

darkknight109 posted...

Feeling sorry for a bullet that killed someone and saying "Thoughts and prayers, you Nazi b****" is, if not celebrating murder, treating it with a remarkable degree of callousness. Again, those comments would get you fired from most jobs, regardless of who the victim was.

If a comic book author had posted similarly-phrased sentiments and said that they were sorry that a hammer had to touch Paul Pelosi, or had said "Thoughts and prayers, you bitch to Melissa Hortman, do you think they should have gotten to keep their job? Or would that no longer count as a "light joke" in those cases?

The fact that you're comparing a standard politician to nazi who openly advocates hate to an entire generation shows how horrible the normalization of supremacists have become. This is peak Both Sidesing

darkknight109 posted...

Fine, as far as I'm concerned, because the alternative is the entirety of the American population behaving like shit-flinging baboons instead of just the Republican half.

I am OK with enforcing "decorum", as you put it, on those who think the same way as me, because the current state of the Republican party shows what happens when you don't do that. If they had held themselves to a higher standard of personal decorum, Donald Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the White House.

The left has called, oftentimes successfully, for people to be fired or otherwise punished when they mock victims of racial injustice like George Floyd or Trayvon Martin. I support those sorts of actions. Problem is, if the left starts allowing behaviour like Ms. Felker-Martin's to be acceptable so long as the target is a Republican (no matter how odious), we lose the moral grounds to call for those sorts of consequences, because then it's no longer about enforcing universal standards, it's about attacking people on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

I don't mourn Charlie Kirk. I think he was a piece of shit with noxious views. But I also don't think he deserved to be murdered for what he said and did, and I'm not going to celebrate his death. "Don't mock a murder victim whose corpse isn't even cold yet" should not really be a controversial view, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm a bit annoyed that it seems to be getting that way for parts of the American left, which has, up until now, still managed to retain its sanity.

You realize you're comparing people who are against racial injustice to people that literally advocate for racial injustice? Kirk was not simply someone with noxious views. He openly advocated for not having empathy to others, that white people were superior, that women were worse than men, and that the LGBT were the cause of moral decay and he specifically targeted the youth to spread his influence to. He contributed significantly to the state of the modern GOP which is why the top level Republicans and Trump himself have been personally honoring him.
Acting like he is equal to victims of racial injustice is legit disgusting and contributes to normalizing his extreme views.

darkknight109 posted...

Kind of comparing apples and paint rollers there, aren't you? One is about displaying some basic decency, the other concerns electoral laws and mechanics. Not exactly related topics.

Newsom is doing what he can to try and level the playing field against Republican dogfucking. I 100% support that. I am completely against gerrymandering in general, as all reasonable people should be, but if one side is going to do it with the judiciary's blessing, basic tenants of both fairness and democratic representation stipulate that the other side must do it as well unless and until the political will emerges to ban it.

And the exact same thing applies here. Republican media openly mocks and treats it as a victory when things like Nancy Pelosi and Democrats were targeted and while you may call that insane, that means nothing when you're in the minority and powerless, and instead pushes the worldwide messaging that attacking Democrats is acceptable. Meanwhile, if left wingers are punished for doing a fraction of that right wingers do, all that's going to do is give the message that left wingers can't show disdain for even Nazis and white supremacists with anything harsher than impotent finger wagging.
If one thinks the state of things is "fine" and you can pat yourself on the back for "keeping up decorum" while the GOP pushes fascism, the removal of human rights, aiding war crime, and destroying the constitution then one might as well just be a right-winger themselves.
White supremacists and rapists don't need decency.

LightSnake posted...

These companies aren't really run by leftists, let's be real. Remember DC comics is run by Time Warner

EPR-radar posted...

Any creative type who personally comes to the attention of a suit in corporate is almost certain to get fired as a result.

That's just one of the many charming facts of life in our endgame capitalist fascist hellscape.

Yep, sadly.

darkknight109 posted...

Generally speaking, celebrating murder is going to get you canned from a lot of jobs, regardless of who it is that got killed.

It wasnt celebrating, it was making a light joke.

darkknight109 posted...

OK. And what does that have to do with someone who isn't on the right being held accountable for celebrating a murder?

Just because the Republicans are hypocritical shit-stains doesn't mean the rest of us should be.

How well has the taking the high road and decorum been working out? Are you mad at Newsom for gerrymandering California too?

Matthew Dowd got fired simply for explaining why he thought it happened with hate begets hate
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/us/matthew-dowd-charlie-kirk-msnbc-fired.html

The Ghost of Yotei dev was also fired. It really shows the high road the left have to continuously be on. The right can say the most heinous things but make light of a nazi's death and out you go. Meanwhile kicking out the heinous things makes you the sensitive snowflake.

Will_VIIII posted...

I mean that's possible with frame gen, lossless scaling and stuff like that but there'd be compromises.

Borderlands 4 doesn't run well on the steam deck though (like 20fps) and it's on the NS2

I see. Appreciate the info.

Trumpo posted...

Steam Deck is 3 years old

I just figured that Nintendo hardware since the gamecube would be a bit behind hardcore systems so I'm surprised by this. Nintendo's handhelds were always weaker than Playstation's too.

Will_VIIII posted...

My understanding that overall, the hardware of the NS2 is more powerful than the steam deck.

Guess I fell for some of the misinformation. I saw a lot of talk about how Steam Deck with the correct optimization could still play current gen games the NS2 couldn't.

https://jumpshare.com/s/HbrUY8iUz4c4lQ8TIo9Q

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/ea32ede0.jpg

I legit thought the Steam Deck was more powerful due to generally being more expensive.

Supersonic_Pain posted...

If I had a PS5, I'd buy a second copy

Btw she appears to have been fired so it seems like it worked. Pathetic of Sucker Punch to kowtow like that if true.

https://www.thegamer.com/ghost-of-yotei-artist-claims-fired-sucker-punch-charlie-kirk-post/

They should rebel back like the nepalese are doing.

Tough-talking Nepali leader Khadga Prasad Sharma Oli spent decades in communist politics and served as prime minister four times before resigning Tuesday, after deadly youth protests triggered by a ban on social media.
The 73-year-old quit shortly after angry protesters set fire to his house, writing in his resignation letter that he hoped it would help "towards a political solution and resolution of the problems".
On Monday, after at least 19 people were killed in a police crackdown on protests against his government's ban on unregistered social media, access to the apps was restored -- but the demonstrations continued.

Wow, that's pretty shocking. I wonder if something extreme like this could happen in developed countries if social media ever gets gutted to that extent.

If only they can keep going for the next 4 years.

Sakurai. Although I suppose he's technically not Nintendo.

Good man

pegusus123456 posted...

what

https://www.reddit.com/r/DetectiveConan/comments/19a00lr/discussing_about_how_much_time_has_passed_in/

Everyone is still in the same grade.

Ah missouri. Honestly I kind of feel like he might be saying this even with a Dem President. Maybe they could refuse to send federal funds like Trump though.

RIP

lol

BlueTigerLion posted...

Jungle justice is not unprecedented in northern Nigeria. In May 2022, Deborah Samuel, a Christian student at a Sokoto college, was stoned and set on fire by fellow students after being accused of blasphemy in a WhatsApp group chat.

Surreal sentence.

Haha that's what I like to see

Awesome!

Starks posted...

That's not a silver lining at all. That means guardsmen have nothing to work with during peak hurricane season.

Trump wasn't going to let them help with that anyway.

The situation isn't looking too good.

Zikten posted...

I remember a story where 2 teens, 1 boy 1 girl, broke into a house on Thanksgiving. A man lived alone there and he caught the kids and tied them up and then killed them while they were helpless and waited til the next morning to call the cops. Because he "didn't want to disturb the police on their Thanksgiving"

I am pretty sure he went to prison

This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady

He didn't tie them up but basically waited in ambush and killed Nicholas without giving him a chance to respond, taunting his body, and then killed and taunted Haile while she was screaming and apologizing.

The very ironic part is that all of this was only known because he himself set up surveillance cameras and audio to record it (as well as calling the cops himself) and he might've gotten away if he didn't record the whole scene. Apparently this guy really thought that he was in the right to kill in cold blood anyone who wandered into his property regardless if they surrendered or not.

Zip ties?

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

I've heard the Nation Guard is risking running out of funds thanks to Trump's bs occupations.

Only silver lining here.

Lazy_Haar posted...

I gave the demo for this a chance yesterday and liked it just enough to gamble on a purchase. I got the Switch version, playing in on my Switch 2, and... it's already crashed probably not even 15 minutes into playing it (continuing where I left off from the demo). I was in the middle of having the gift machine explained to me and an error popped up (and I can't even tell what the error message was because I was hitting A to continue the dialogue right when it happened). I couldn't even relaunch the game and the Switch home menu itself was acting laggy/buggy. I tried googling for answers and evidently crashes after the last update are a known thing, yet I never saw anything about it before now, and searching this thread/the board for it on this site lead to nothing, either. Weird. It's deflated my enthusiasm for the game a bit already, but hopefully it doesn't become a constant thing hanging over my head. I tried to delete the update in case that'd help, but much like Rune Factory Guardians and the bug where it downloads the entire 12GB worth of game for the Switch 2 when it updates despite the game being on the cart, you can't go back to an older version of the game on the Switch once you've already played it.

wtf I've never heard of this. That's crazy.

Zikten posted...

Does this mean the bee crisis is solved?

Not by a long shot but it's a good first step.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Countries-Regions/International-Statistics/Data-Topic/AgricultureForestryFisheries/Bees.html

She needs to lawyer up.

This can easily be voided meaningless but still happy to see good news.

Very cool

Grim

Only 25 more posts to go, might as well see it through imo

jefffan posted...

There's also this

Tiny spinal implant revives nerves in rats, hints at paralysis cure https://interestingengineering.com/health/spinal-implant-paralysis-recovery-breakthrough

Now this is a good universal benefit from this.

This is great news!

lol this over a sandwich

The_Popo posted...

What do they expect to happen in that area filming Seattle Kraken stuff? Of course that bear would be pissed.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/ac1b6ea4.jpg

Blech AI

Cory898 posted...

As I said. Someone on another board got himself suspended while celebrating this as a win for Gina, and in the process downplaying the rise of Nazis in America and throwing in some transphobic stuff while he was at it. Basically said something like the people who think Elon is a Nazi are the same people who think so and so is a woman.

Ah I see. Do they still have access to here? If not, can you name them?

This is terrifying.

Cory898 posted...

On the plus side it led to a suspension for celebrating this news elsewhere. He had given a shoutout to Elon for funding her case and all I did was ask if he had any more shoutouts for any other nazis. His response doubled down and threw transphobia into the mix for funsies.

What's this about?

Something I found funny was just how much he hated and vocally brought up Nintendo's price gouging... But he was a fan of scalping.

indeed