Lurker > Forceful_Dragon

I wasn't trying to pick any kind of fight.

I wanted to clarify that she understood traits.

Somehow that turned into her claiming and declaring that I can't possibly be vanilla. Both of those things ruin completely counter intuitive to my own logical understanding of the conversation.

Every attempt to straighten things out resolved nothing.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Why would I make such an assumption?

Why WOULDN'T you? It's not even an assumption. You know from the OP that there are 3 kinds of traits. You know that some of them don't have any power and just provide "pointless flavor".

Apparently you have a single trait and that single trait provides a power, but why does that lock you into only understanding the world through the view of "well I guess everyone just has a single trait and everyone has a power"? If you get cop in a game do you assume everyone else is a cop? No you understand that everyone has different roles/abilities and that some percentage of people have no abilities. And in this game it's explicitly stated that some traits fall into that category.

But whatever, I'm leaving to get ready for bed for real this time, I'm just TRYING to understand your point of view these past 90 minutes and failing miserably.

that is not remotely accurate. I didn't ask you to show me an example role PM of someone who doesn't have passive/active powers.

All you had to say was "well I guess they'd be like a vanilla with a different name".

But we're literally not making any progress and I have to get ready for bed so I guess tonight was a bust.

FD: "What would you call someone if none of their traits had passive or active powers?"

Crescent: "Yes, that's right, I'm power"

There was NO other way to answer that? We know from the OP post that traits come in 3 varieties:

-Flavor only.
-Passive Ability.
-Active Ability.

I asked you what you might say about someone who ONLY had the first type. I don't see how that forced you to claim anything.

Crescent-Moon posted...

You claimed one of your "Traits" was "Cheerful"

That sounds like a completely meaningless additional word that doesn't actually add anything to me.

I didn't specifically say that my trait is cheerful. Just that they can be things along those lines.

But if someone did have a trait along those lines and it's ALL they had would you call them a "cheerful" or a "vanilla"?

That was the point of my question earlier that somehow caused you to claim power.

Crescent-Moon posted...

As far as I'm concerned, "Traits" are still meaningless nonsense that should be ignored, and we should only be focusing on "Flavor" and "Role". Nothing about "Cheerful" or "Ambivalent Baker" or whatever nonsense was being spouted changed my mind on this.

You are stuck on the idea of only having a single trait, in which case sure it's essentially just a renamed role.

But if someone has 3 traits that all do different things you can see what that's different right? Especially if some of them are just adjectives that don't provide passives or powers.

Your initial confusion does make more sense now from the context of someone who only has one and didn't put much stock into the OP line about everyone having 1-3.

trying to decipher ME?

I pressed her on her understanding of traits which was very much in doubt and suddenly the most confusing can of worms was opened.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I claimed power the post before I made it official. I knew it was going to happen if I had to answer too many questions about Traits.

Okay but I never called you vanilla AFTER you claimed power and that is when you seemed incredulous that I could have believed you were power.

I'm just reading through this conversation and there are multiple times where I don't understand what it is that you are reading into my posts.

You declared I'm not vanilla despite me not revealing anything of the sort.

You declared yourself power despite not needing to.

I explained that I didn't peg you as power at all (the opposite in fact) and you said you couldn't believe I thought you were vanilla after you claimed power even though the thing I had just said was an explanation of WHY I previously thought you were vanilla.

There is just a massive disconnect taking place.

YOU are the one who said

Crescent-Moon posted...

It actually boggles me that you could think I was vanilla even after my answer was basically "I have absolutely no idea what a vanilla PM might look like"

When I no longer believed you could have been vanilla well before that point and ONLY thought you were before you went and claimed power out of nowhere to me.

You making that post is what prolonged this

Crescent-Moon posted...

If I wasn't power the concept of "Traits" would've actually made sense to me. I would've perceived the meaningless part of my role as my "Trait".

The fact that all I have in my role IS a power without any descriptors is why I did not understand it was supposed to also be my "Trait".

The same logic applies to a non power like ambivalent.

Again not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't have known, just that from my perspective it was entirely consistent with how someone might have viewed a non power trait. I don't feel like you had outed yourself at all, y'know, until you did.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Post 80 I virtually outright claimed I wasn't vanilla and post 81 I cleared it up because the cat was definitely out of the bag at that point.

You must mean 90 and 91.

And I agree that was you claiming power. But you went on to say you didn't understand why I thought you might have been functionally vanilla after that point when I never thought you were functionally vanilla after that point, only before.

Crescent-Moon posted...

How the hell am I supposed to know or even assume about ambivalent bakers would be a thing?

I didn't say that you did. In theory you would have had your own version of whatever personal traits matched your flavor.

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't have known, only what situation I believed you may have been in until you claimed power

Crescent-Moon posted...

I said that before actually.

Then I realized what I said removed even the faintest shadow of a doubt that I was power and just let it be out there.

Where? I don't see it.

Crescent-Moon posted...

It actually boggles me that you could think I was vanilla even after my answer was basically "I have absolutely no idea what a vanilla PM might look like"

You only said that after calling yourself power.

I no longer believed you were functionally vanilla at that point.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Also you tell me how I'm supposed to know what a vanilla PM is supposed to look like when I'm not vanilla and have absolutely zero random descriptors of any sort in my role.

Hypothetically you get told you are

Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue baker (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent baker (dual trait)

Followed by a descriptor of what it means to be ambivalent or a baker or both.

And then told by host that you're role is 'ambivalent' or 'baker' or 'ambivalent baker' and you mistakenly make the impression that it was just a renamed role.

Rather than a series of renamed roles that we have 1-3 of

But that could have you, a functional vanilla' convinced that the trait was nothing more than a renamed role.

I don't care about what ulti has anyone pegged as. He's been tripping over himself to call everyone confirmed town. The only thing he hasn't done yet is call himself scum a dozen times or he'd be an exact copy of himself last game.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I feel like we just wasted an most of a page for the sole purpose of outing two people as "Definitely not town vanilla" based on a host trying to be too cute.

I mean I guess it could've been worse.

You claimed power completely unprompted. I had such a strong assumption that you fell into the 'functionally vanilla' camp that I might actually have whiplash now.

Crescent-Moon posted...

What I saw was someone who isn't town vanilla asking what a town vanilla might be called.

Not remotely.

Traits will be called any number of things and I know from my own trait/s that they could include strange things like "cheerful" that don't remotely correspond with a mafia role and only provide a flavor descriptor.

But YOU are the one who didn't seem to "get it" so I was trying to get an understanding of YOUR thoughts about traits without abilities.

I don't know what you think I'm saying but I think there is a serious gap between what I'm saying and what you are hearing.

Crescent-Moon posted...

If FD ever tries to claim vanilla in this game, instantly murder him. I'm not sure yet this is a scum slip or a power slip, but this definitely isn't a vanilla.

I wasn't claiming vanilla, just asking what YOU would call someone who's trait/s are entirely flavor based.

You could have 4 people who all have different traits that are functionally vanilla by virtue of not having any passive or active abilities.

To be honest my assumption based upon your description so far is that you had a single flavor-only trait.

And regardless of not being specifically labeled as a trait should still be listed and then later defined. I can understand initially thinking it's just a renamed role if you only have one, but once it was revealed everyone has 1-3 of them it felt straightforward.

Yeah gotta go with the cashier.

Scummy people have perfected the art of the Short Change scam and when it's done correctly it can be difficult to spot. Entirely separate is the only way to proceed.

Crescent-Moon posted...

And for the record that answer did in fact make me feel worse about Dumey fishing Red, because it essentially told me Dumey was directly rolefishing him, which is exactly what I thought he was doing.

I still don't see how it's fishing. Even if red provided the name of the trait that makes him functionally a miller that wouldn't reveal anything else about other traits he may or may not have.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Oh if you really want the answer then whatever because if anyone else asks they're just gonna get the same answer so I doubt I'll ever catch someone with it.

"Trait" is just another word for "Role". It's the host trying too hard to be creative, and the word "Trait" means absolutely nothing in this game. We should completely disregard it as a notion and only operate under "flavor" and "role".

What changed between yesterday and today that you understand now?

What would you call someone if none of their traits provide passive or active abilities?

Crescent-Moon posted...

Actually the most common thing I say is the way I play day one is more dependent on my mood/emotional state than my alignment.

At least a dozen games I've said that in I would say.

That's fantastic.

What are traits?

Chaeix posted...

I do think its kind of funny that FD noted that I didnt have thoughts on a number of people. The people I didnt comment on happen to be most of the people that FD also said I have no thoughts on you but he just listed and said as much.

lol

You posted reads on 6 people in the post I referenced. Not counting yourself that means you skipped 10. There some overlap with my list (maybe 4 of those 10?) but I wouldn't really say that's equivalent.

Corrik7 posted...

How quick did you come to this list? How long wad your read?

You can subtract when the post was made to my first post can't you? Looks like it was about 50 minutes. I had done some skimming throughout the day, but the entire post was created from a read through that began after I checked in.

Traits aren't flavor though.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


My assumption is that scum would ALSO have traits though. It's just such an inconsistency no matter how you slice it.

It'll be hilarious if we found an actual 3rd party who doesn't have traits and is uniquely positioned to be confused by the OP.

Leafeon13N posted...

Game mechanics. There is no solo queue. You choose either survivor or killer and queue from there. Both could essentially be considered solo queue.

Okay, so not relevant then. But I'm not interested in trying to figure out the specifics of what town is named or why they might be named that. It's just a given that we all know our faction name so town clearing for a gut response to something we read a day before just isn't something I'm willing to do.

Though there is that other part of SBell's opening post that makes me feel more like clearing him (and feel worse about Ben), but I'd just as soon not get into any specifics.

PeaceFrog posted...

Damn lea, that's more cruel than anything i said about sbell.

Fd, welcome back. Glad to have you. Was it primarily crescent's first half of t1 that made an impression on you? Because she spent a lot of time being upset at me, but you think I've been sort of unintentionally under the radar.

I would have to say mostly first half. crescent missed a couple pages and then started posting more with post 391 and none of that stuff registered much. I would also say that what is there feels like it's more directed at sultan than yourself.

Chaeix posted...

she suggested she got my traitor joke when she said I was being town who doesnt care yet

And that was immediately undercut by her next post?

Post 109:

Crescent-Moon posted...

Ok JC is being snarky in a town that doesn't really care yet way got the reason I'm townvibing on him.

Post 111:

Crescent-Moon posted...

Anyways I didn't read the opening posts like usual and I'm inquiring now to figure out what "Trait" is even supposed to mean and what mine is even supposed to be because I feel like I have way more questions than answers about something that's apparently part of the game.

Make it make sense.

There's just a few people I'd be willing to vote for (Ulti, Wallz, Crescent, Ben) but I think the one I'll cast at the moment is

##Vote: Crescent

I need to know that she knows what a trait is. I'm not gonna be able to get past that fact until it's been addressed.

While reading topic 1 I just added notes to players on the player list as I went so that means these aren't my thoughts in the order I had them, just my collected thoughts on the players in the order they are listed on the player list. I tried to include what post I was referencing to give context. But without further ado:
.

Ashethan

Not understanding the heat Ashe is getting on page 2. They only made two posts on page 1 and nothing jumped off the page.

Just got to the end of topic 1 and I didn't have anything else to add about Ashe. Not sure if that means they just stopped posting or if they were just collectively ignored. Could be scum slinking back into the shadows allowing conversation to drift elsewhere? I'd need to iso to see if there were actually posts of substance that I just didn't catalog.
.

Chaeix / jc

Made a post (130) that really resonates with my only feelings at the same point. Not caring about wallz, not liking ulti, being fine with dumey and thinking crescent is wrong to press dumey. Don't have enough information to agree or disagree with his IGCD read.

Anotehr read post (436) that I'm less crazy about. It's not that I terribly disagree with a lot of it (don't love the ben town read), but it also seems like it could cover more people at that point. With that said I would join in pressure on both ulti and wallz so despite it's limited scope it hits in some good ways still.
.

Corrik7 / Corrik

Zzz
.

Crescent-Moon

Thought 'solo queue' was a weirdly named scum faction. This sticks out to me because why would 'solo' connect with a team of scum? I couldn't even guess what the scum faction would be named, but it's possible crescent was using her own experience of ACTUALLY being confused by a weird scum faction name to try to relate to those posting about their own thoughts on the faction name/s?

Said "All players have "Traits"? If I have a "Trait", I have absolutely no idea what it's supposed to be."

Uh, what? It's pretty OBVIOUS from my role PM what my trait/s is/are. Like that's the entirety of my role with the definition/s provided after. But I would assume even scum would have traits so this doesn't even make sense as a scum slip. I just don't understand how you could have a trait and not know it. Crescent made more posts about this throughout page 3 and no one seems to care or is running with it.
.

EDumey / Dumey

I actually didn't hate Dumey's post where he pressed red for miller details. As the opening post explains we all have between 1 and 3 traits. Some traits are flavor only, some have passive abilities and some have active abilities. If we assume red is actually miller (and I do) then that means he's likely solo queue "untrustworthy" or some similarly named passive trait that causes him to scan guilty. He might still have other traits in addition, or it might be his only one, but a scum trying to gambit a miller might screw up and say they are actually just "Solo queue miller". I don't hate Dumey making that play even if red is not the kind of person who would typically be caught by it.
.

Forceful_Dragon / FD

It's me, FD.
.

htaeD / Death

Gonna have to iso. I know he posted a lot but somehow he made it through my read without pinging me enough to leave a thought in either direction.
.

IfGodCouldDie / IGCD

See SBell's blurb about "shucks, I thought I was survivor".

Don't know what else he's said otherer than being "town cleared" for page 1.
.

Lea

No thoughts of consequence. Wouldn't even know the difference if she hadn't posted at all.
.

Obellisk / Sbell

Personally don't care for the "aw shucks I thought I was survivor". I had a similar thought when I saw the PM, but naturally proceeded to read the entire thing and realized what was what. It never occurred to me to think to alert others to the fact that I briefly got excited at the prospect of an interesting role. I wouldn't expect town credit for it and i wouldn't give others town credit for it.

Went on to vote Crescent on page 4 and I actually liked the vote a lot. Would have been pressing crescent as well if I were around based upon the same post he referenced... And then he immediately walks it back. I did not like the unvote.
.

PeaceFrog

See Death. Not sure how they both made it through because I was aware they had been posting.
.

PunishedBen / Ben

My first really strong reaction to a ben post is #248 and I really do not like it. It really seems to be calling attention to a part of SBell's opening post that was meant to go unnoticed. At best ben is town giving scum free info and at worst scum already took note of the information and will be using it accordingly. I also don't see how any of the specifics to this post really clear IGCD as well.
.

red13n / Leafeon13n

Claimed miller. Probably hiding power? Town either way so it's whatever.

Said "killer side is also Solo Queue" in post #366. What is this idea based on? Or is this more about the game mechanic of queing up for a game of DBD?
.

TheSultanofSlam / Sultan

At one point Ashe voted Wallz and I remember thinking to myself that I thought it was a good look for Ashe and then Sultan said essentially the same thing in post #244. I also didn't hate Sultan's reads from a bit earlier that people weren't happy with. Feeling good about sultan through 5 pages.
.

UltimateBrohan / Brohan

Not enough content to feel one way or the other.
.

UltimaterializerX / Ulti

Immediately "town locking" four people on post #54. This feels similar to the scum ulti we just saw who liked to call himself and others town. And using that same justification of what he thought when reading the role PM.

"I don't think I have a night action" from posts 273 is just bizarre. Puts him in the Crescent camp of I don't understand how they don't understand what's happening. My role PM in combination with the opening post is absolutely crystal clear with no room for ambiguity.
.

wallmasterz / Wallz

Just got to the "mom?" post (#233) and it's registering to me that none of wallz' posts thus far have really registered to me. I know he's in the game and I enjoyed the 'dad?' post, and remember he had to kinda-defend himself about the jaguars winning or something? But wallz has been almost notably un-notable through his posts.

But it's not the same as Death/Peaf who posted a lot but I didn't feel the need to quote or respond to. Wallz feels more like someone TRYING to be unmemorable?

I mean there's been a lot of posts about people posting about their impressions of the role PM and their impressions of other people's impressions and so forth. But I have my own thoughts about all that which will be included in how I feel about everyone.

Well my arrival apparently scared everyone away so I'll continue my topic 1 more detailed readthrough and post thoughts on the player list when I'm done.

Howdy.

Late night Sunday.

Busy day at work today followed by a couple important errands means this is my first actual chunk of time to post. I did some skimming so I know a few broad strokes like the red miller claim.

I considered just waiting an extra hour and trolling Sultan by claiming I couldn't post for 24 hours.. but I'm not enough of a gambler to consider rolling those dice

Way to give me hope for one damn play.

Crescent-Moon posted...

but never made a "football move"

Yes I understood it was going to come down to that when I saw it too, but it's BS. He HAD the ball cold whether he could make a follow up move or not.

The point of the rule is to stop completions when the receiver doesn't really have it. Not to protect them from turnovers after they did actually have it.

But whatever. Our defense doesn't have it anymore but I'm still going to hear all week again about how the loss is 100% on Brock

Crescent-Moon posted...

49ers are gonna lose three in a row. I don't think they recover from that pick.

We DID recover.

But then they took our damn fumble back and I don't understand why.

He HAD the ball before we knocked it out

It was SECURE before it got punched. It was a catch and fumble and it was going to be our ball at midfield. Everything since is just butterfly effect garbage.

What do the commanders know that nobody else has figured out about the Eagles?

Well shit

'accidental drowning' makes me assume drugs were involved, but I had hoped he was done with all that. Just awful news

MoogleKupo141 posted...

I honestly felt super smart when I realized it

i completely forgot that game even existed, its like its been deleted from our collective memory

Until you posted that. You've caused irreparable psychic damage.

At least 22 killed in Maine tonight.

Two separate shootings by the same person, still at large.

UltimateriBrolizerHan

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/0/6/AAXBdhAAE-Cy.jpg

Life comes at you pretty fast.

I vote for Neil deGrasse Tyson

Let me introduce my friend, DF

I saw Ward getting to it first and just assumed he was coming down with it, couldn't believe how it played out. Game is still very much in reach, but lots of annoyances