Lurker > Cheese_Crackers

leverageblargh posted...

What really blew it here is that you mentioned you google searched

Don't tell her how you know about coffee joints

Perhaps. But it's a bit of a running joke that I know nothing about the town we go to school in because she's lived here her whole life and I just moved.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

https://imgur.com/a/Btsf6
https://imgur.com/a/IiPXJ
https://imgur.com/a/tRicG

Obviously not posting pics of the girl. The black part is a neighbouring town that she lives in but I'm not too familiar with.

Sucks that she wasn't more specific about the rain check, but pretty sure she won't be leaving campus for lunch on Wednesday since it's a sorta long drive to her town.

GODTIER posted...

Wait when did u propose

Too late I think :(
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

She was busy on the day I proposed, but actually made an attempt to reschedule! I think we're on in a couple days.

inb4 cool story bro and whatever, I'm just excited
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Guess I should mention a couple other gripes of mine that I skippd over - I honestly haven't watched Luke Cage, so my only prior exposure to him was in JJ briefly, but I find him really awkward in this show. Plus the way that he and Jessica are so adamantly against the mystical stuff is kind of annoying sometimes. I understand that they're more down-to-Earth heroes, but it gets tiresome for them to scoff at everything Danny and Stick say after a little while.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

No spoilers please.

It has some cool moments, and Danny's portrayal is a big improvement over his character in Iron Fist, but it's honestly not that great overall so far.

Still have the final two episodes left to watch, but I'm so confused why they haven't been able to capture the magic of Daredevil (and JJ to an extent) in any of the other TV series.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

APM posted...

No. The handmaid's tale is bullshit propaganda from the left. You will never see that in real life

All of the societal traits in the series / book has already happened in the past at some point.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Post
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Drpooplol posted...

Yeah I watched that a few months ago, filling out a bunch of work forms with my SSN made me think of it again today
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

They're pretty much the universal number for identifying yourself to the government, employers, schools, etc., but there are no identifying factors on the card itself, making it much easier to fraud than it should be. Why are so many Americans opposed to mandatory national ID cards when they'd be more secure and accomplish the same things that the current system does?
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

For the world's most desperate ships. What happened?
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

I don't care if you smoke as long as it doesn't affect me, but when you make the sidewalk in front of my house look bad with your litter, or make me spend an hour doing extra stuff at work sweeping butts in the parking lot, I get pissed.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

King Rial posted...

Cheese_Crackers posted...

I play Pocket Mortys

Is that fun? What's it play like?

I enjoy it, it's basically a Pokemon clone but it's fun for the Rick & Morty references.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

I play Pocket Mortys
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

It's expensive, I'm paranoid that it'll go wrong somehow, and they don't recommend it until after age 25 (I'm 23). Most places won't even take you until you're 25, at least where I'm from.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Well, my First of July (Canada Day) was pretty cool. My city had a decent fireworks show and a free concert with deadmau5 as the closing act (the rest were basically nobodies, they weren't terrible but no one would recognize their names). It's pretty much the only "major" musician that we've had here in decades, and it was an awesome show - everyone should see him live sometime.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

LordTrinen posted...

I don't drink alcohol. When people ask me why, I tell them I suffer from a bad case of OSD.

"Obsessive Sobriety Disorder"

It is a rare condition that fills an individual with an irresistible compulsion to face life sober.

That's what I tell people to make a joke about it. If they want a serious answer, I have several reasons but even I'm not certain which is the predominate one.

My class underwent the D.A.R.E. program when I was a kid. Sometimes I think it stuck with me more than most because I stayed away from drugs in high school and college, never smoked and never had a drop of alcohol. I made a silent vow after that to never drink alcohol and at the age of 30 I've done well. Later I also learned that I have alcoholics on both sides of my family (aunts, uncles, grandparents). If the studies about alcoholism being hereditary hold any merit then I'm seriously screwed. Perhaps I could break the chain and maintain better control of myself but with all the shit going on in my life I could easily see myself constantly drinking myself into a stupor. Better to stay away altogether.

Even if people view it as "weird" or a violation of some social convention I commend anyone else who chooses to forgo alcohol. Speaking from personal experience, I know the pressure is there and it takes a lot of willpower to resist it.

To my fellow teetotalers, let us raise our non-alcoholic glasses in a toast!

Holy shit, are you me?
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

It's the same when someone mentions being a vegetarian or vegan. I get that there are people from these groups that are preachy, but there are also normal people that only mention it when it's relevant. Just like all groups of people, there are reasonable and unreasonable members.

I only mention it when someone offers me meat; I don't want to decline and make them feel like I don't trust their cooking or anything, so I say "no thanks, I'm a vegetarian". That's literally all I ever intend to say on the subject, but it's really funny how many people then tell me why they eat meat - "I tried giving it up but love the taste", "it's how I was raised", etc. It's not like my statement of my lifestyle choice is an attack on your choices, but if that's how you take it, then maybe you're making the wrong choices for yourself.

It happens a little less often with drinking, but when I tell people I don't want a drink, they will sometimes start defending their choice to drink, and it honestly kind of annoys me. I'm not a confrontational person, and I don't want what feels like a confrontation whenever I mention things like that.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

ThorsStone posted...

averagejoel posted...

easily

This. $18 USD is about $23 CAD. After dividing everything up between me and my 3 roommates, my monthly expenses (in CAD) are:

Rent = $400
Power = $50
Internet = $30
Food = $250
Entertainment = $50

$760 altogether. Assuming that this job is full-time, I'd be making $3680 each month (about $2770 USD). More than enough. In fact, if I were making that much I'd be instantly moving into a single bedroom place, which is about $760 per month around here.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Not sure about the USA, but in some countries the sales taxes change a lot, especially by province, so business owners would need to be constantly changing their price tags whenever taxes change. Not saying that I disagree with you, but that's probably a major reason that it hasn't happened.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Mr_Legendia posted...

Lmao!!

.999... is more than 1 due to infinitesimal. On!the number line the .999... would go on to to infinity while 1 stays still.

That would explain 2.999... being 3, because it can't be less than 3.

Or am I off base here?

I'm not sure which side you're taking here.

.999... is exactly equal to 1; infinitesimals aren't part of standard analysis (analysis is the branch of math which deals with continuous processes and limits). If you want to go into non-standard analysis such as hyperreals, then be my guest, but that is definitely not, well, standard. No one will know you're thinking in that way unless you say so.

You're right that 2.999... = 3, because 2.999... = 2 + .999... = 2 + 1 = 3
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

G_G posted...

Cheese_Crackers posted...

You're not being stupid at all. And yeah, 1.999... = 2. It works for any number; 2.34999... = 2.35

wait it applies for decimals too???

Yeah, for the same reason.

2.349
2.3499
2.34999
2.349999
2.3499999

They're getting arbitrarily close to a single value, namely 2.35

Or you could view it as 2.34999... = 2.34 + .00999... = 2.34 + .01 = 2.35, where we applied the same principle as my original post to conclude that .00999... = .01

Basically any infinitely repeating string of nines can be replaced by a single 1
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Pounds, feet, and fahrenheit are more precise than kilograms, meters, and celsius, therefore the imperial versions are better

Where are you getting that from? If anything, you could argue that metric is more precise because the imperial units are defined in terms of the metric ones. Officially, 1 inch is precisely 2.54cm. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping you from defining 1cm as precisely 1/2.54 inches, but neither is better or more accurate than the other.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Milkman5 posted...

I was thinking about this the other day where people try to argue that the metric system is just so much more intuitive and makes sense


but the truth is we hold on to base 10 just because we have 10 fingers. That's literally the only fucking reason we use base ten

and seeing as no one counts on their fingers anymore I don't understand why people don't use Hex or Binary or literally any other number base.

The choice is arbitrary and they both have merits, but if literally everyone else is using one system (except Liberia and Myanmar), then at some point you need to swallow your pride, take one for the team, and switch.

I don't actually think converting would be worth the immense headaches that it would cause, but it's what should have happened once the Système international decided on their units.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

G_G posted...

Cheese_Crackers posted...

G_G posted...

thats not what i mean

im not asking why .999... is 1 and .999...8 isn't, im asking what decides that .999... is 1 instead of .999... being .999...8

why do we round up

What do you mean by .999...8? An infinite sequence of 9s followed by an 8? That doesn't exist because then the sequence of 9s isn't infinite.

The fact that .999...=1 isn't because of rounding up. It's true that .99999999 would be rounded up to 1 in most circumstances, but .999... is a different creature. It's the difference between a finite string of 9s and an infinite one.

The only way to talk about an infinite beast like .999... equaling anything is to consider what happens with an extremely long but finite string of 9s, and try to notice a value that these numbers become closer to. In this case, we would consider the following list:

.9
.99
.999
.9999
.99999
.999999
.9999999

...and so on. Maybe you can see that these values, with each iteration, are becoming arbitrarily close to 1. Of course no entry in this list will be 1, but if you want to consider the "limit" of the list - that is, an infinite string of 9s - then you need to consider what value the list entries are becoming arbitrarily close to.

that makes more sense. thanks.

sorry for being stupid but is 1.999... 2?

You're not being stupid at all. And yeah, 1.999... = 2. It works for any number; 2.34999... = 2.35

I was rewatching Total Drama Island recently and there's an episode where two teams are doing a race or something; the final score is 10 vs 9.999..., and the team with 10 was declared the victor. The correct ruling is that the scores are the same because 9.999... = 10, so it would be a draw.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

G_G posted...

thats not what i mean

im not asking why .999... is 1 and .999...8 isn't, im asking what decides that .999... is 1 instead of .999... being .999...8

why do we round up

What do you mean by .999...8? An infinite sequence of 9s followed by an 8? That doesn't exist because then the sequence of 9s isn't infinite.

The fact that .999...=1 isn't because of rounding up. It's true that .99999999 would be rounded up to 1 in most circumstances, but .999... is a different creature. It's the difference between a finite string of 9s and an infinite one.

The only way to talk about an infinite beast like .999... equaling anything is to consider what happens with an extremely long but finite string of 9s, and try to notice a value that these numbers become closer to. In this case, we would consider the following list:

.9
.99
.999
.9999
.99999
.999999
.9999999

...and so on. Maybe you can see that these values, with each iteration, are becoming arbitrarily close to 1. Of course no entry in this list will be 1, but if you want to consider the "limit" of the list - that is, an infinite string of 9s - then you need to consider what value the list entries are becoming arbitrarily close to.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

teepan95 posted...

Good topic

Glad it's well-received. I saw a lot of topics about it but never really saw a meaty discussion about the complex math behind repeating decimals, which is really the best proof of the result.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

SpoiltTrouser posted...

Except the sum of (1/10)^n does not equal 1, it has a limit of 1 but does not equal it.

Actually that part was equal to 1/9. Any sum of the form (1/10)^n with finitely many terms doesn't equal 1/9, but if you take the sum with infinitely many terms, then it converges to 1/9, and convergence is the only way to assign a meaningful value to infinite sums.

The reason it feels so weird is that 0.999... is really simple to write down, but to make sense of it in a rigorous way (i.e. a way that allows you to do proofs), you need to talk about convergent infinite sums. It's a complicated gadget with a deceptively simple representation.

action52 posted...

That image went to a lot of trouble but I don't see how it's any more definitive than saying

1/3 = 0.3333...

2/3 = 0.6666...

0.3333... + 0.6666... = 1/3 + 2/3

1/3 + 2/3 = 1

0.3333... + 0.6666... = 0.9999...

Therefore 0.9999... = 1

I mean this seems like it's just a much more convoluted version of the same thing. If the transitive property proof doesn't convince you than how is this any better?

It depends on how pedantic you're feeling. Writing down 0.333... = 1/3 isn't a given statement, it requires its own proof. There's no obvious reason a priori that 1/3, the multiplicative inverse of 3, should be equal to an infinite representation of some kind. The way to prove that is essentially identical to the way I proved that the sum of (1/10)^n is 1/9.

Your proof is probably convincing to people that aren't extreme skeptics, but there's still a something in it that needs proving beforehand.

As for the rest of your post, I understand the hesitation to accept it, but the fact is that 0.999... is an infinite sum, which is much more complicated than writing it down would seem to imply. Infinite sums lead to unintuitive results all the time.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

apolloooo posted...

JSancton posted...

Put it in rice and give it 24 hours.

This. Water won't do anything unless you turn it on. Hopefully your turning it on for a second wasn't enough to cause any damage.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

MutantJohn posted...

Is this topic about category theory yet?

I'm sure that 0.999... is a limit object in some category which is also complete, co-complete, and autobotically isomorphic to the very large category of cats
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

DevsBro posted...

ITT, delivery happened. I learned a lot today.

Good to hear :) I'm always interested in making math more accessible to people.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Virus731 posted...

If I couldn't be bothered to understand those images does it make me stupid at math? I've literally never had to use algebra since high school and I dropped out a year early.

No one is stupid at math. Don't bother learning it if you don't want to. I don't know lick about Shakespeare and it's never hurt me in life.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

ChromaticAngel posted...

Cheese_Crackers posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

If a system exists where 0.999... doesn't equal one, it doesn't exist on planet earth, and may not exist anywhere except inside the head of a few mathematicians.

Fixed ;)

That's the beauty of math. We can come up with things that have no chance of existing on planet Earth and still make conclusions about them.

Ok, sure.

Euclid proved his postulates 1, 2, 3, and 4, but was never able to prove his 5th postulate.

Despite him not being able to prove it, people took it as true anyway, but a while back people decided "Well what if it isn't true?" and came up with non-euclidean Geometry as a result.

But redefining basic algebra concepts spirals upwards. If you change it so that 0.999... doesn't equal 1, then that's a definition change that impacts every other fundamental aspect of math.

which is fine for a thought exercise, but not a good subject to have a serious discussion about, especially on a forum limited to 500 posts per topic as people who come up with these ideas almost invariably didn't think them all the way through to the end.

A good example of this is the constant c. It's a constant for the speed of light in a vaccuum used in the popular Energy/Mass Equivalence equation, E=mc^2.

If c were to change, even by a little, you fuck up literally everything everywhere and now all scientific math ever done is now wrong.

0.999...=1 relies on some fairly sophisticated mathematical machinery, though, and some of which is chosen arbitrarily. Read post 18 for a hopefully straightforward example, but making just one choice differently changes that fact.

I'm not saying that those choices should be made by physicists, for example - I don't know enough physics to judge that - but it's certainly a worthwhile discussion and yields some fantastic results in number theory.

Besides, no amount of choices can change the fact that in the standard context in which 0.999... is defined, it's equal to 1.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

tiornys posted...

I think maybe a better way of explaining the topic scenario is this:

Saying that 1 = 0.999... is similar to saying 1 = sin(pi/2) or 1 = the integral of (x*dx/1122) evaluated from -16 to 50. It's an unnecessarily complex way of writing "1" that draws on mathematical concepts outside the scope of everyday life.

It's just that 0.999... looks less complex than it actually is.

That's a good way of explaining it. 0.999... is a simple notation for an awfully complication gadget that needs a theory of infinite series to have a value.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

ChromaticAngel posted...

If a system exists where 0.999... doesn't equal one, it doesn't exist on planet earth, and may not exist anywhere except inside the head of a few mathematicians.

Fixed ;)

That's the beauty of math. We can come up with things that have no chance of existing on planet Earth and still make conclusions about them.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

DevsBro posted...

There are number systems where it becomes untrue, but

I tend to hear this a lot. Seems like no matter what ypu say, it's not true in some number systems. But nobody ever names these number systems.

So question, which sytems are you talking about?

P-adic numbers are one example, I think (definitely not my area of expertise though).

Basically, the real numbers are constructed as a kind of "completion" of the rational numbers.

Take the rational numbers, and then pick your favourite irrational number, like sqrt(2). You can find a sequence of rational numbers which converges (becomes arbitrarily close to) to this chosen irrational number, and so you'd say that sqrt(2) is a limit of a sequence of rational numbers; it can be approximated as closely as you'd like by rationals (which is why you can find a good value for it using modern calculators).

Nevertheless, sqrt(2) is not itself rational, and this means that the rationals are "incomplete" in the sense that not all convergent sequences of rational numbers have rational limits. We can complete them by creating a new set of numbers which contains the rationals, and also contains every limit of convergent rational sequences. This is the real numbers.

However, if you look at the definition of the limit of a convergent sequence (which admittedly is kind of frightening), you'll see that the absolute value function makes a prominent appearance. This function is known as a "metric" - basically, it's a good way of measuring distances between two rational numbers x and y (the distance between them being |x-y|), but it's not the only metric that can be imposed on the rational numbers.

Number theorists like to use the 2-adic metric, which says that two rational numbers x and y are close in the 2-adic metric if x-y is divisible by a high power of 2. As an example, 3-1 is divisible by 2, but 9-1 is divisible by 8=2^3, so 9 and 1 are closer than 3 and 1 in the 2-adic metric. By the way, you can replace 2 in this paragraph by any prime number p to obtain the general p-adic metric.

Once we've established the p-adic metric, we can write down the definition of convergent sequences of rationals with respect to this metric - that is, we consider sequences which get "closer" to a particular limit, where "closer" means in the p-adic sense. Then we'd notice the same phenomenon - there are p-adic-convergent rational sequences whose limits aren't rational. We can create a new set of numbers which includes the rationals, and all p-adic limits of p-adic-convergent rational sequences. The resulting set is called the P-adic Numbers.


The constructions seem similar, maybe, but the p-adics are very strange compared to the reals.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

tiornys posted...

Good proof, although someone skeptical would probably also want proof of that infinite series formula.

Good point. Edited.

http://imgur.com/a/R0OTE
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

http://imgur.com/a/0craz

:)

EDIT: Proof of the statement in the beginning: http://imgur.com/a/R0OTE
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Halp???
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

It's at my school's math department which has about 35 profs and roughly that many students, so it won't be a huge crowd. And I've been told that it's a "fairly low-key event". I'm accepting an award and will probably have my picture taken at the time but I'm not giving a speech or anything.

I was planning to wear a white shirt+black tie, black pants, brown shoes and belt. Basically a suit minus the jacket. I would probably go for the full business-esque suit if I had one, since the jacket is easy enough to take off if I'm over-dressed.

Should I use this as an opportunity to buy my first suit? Or stick with my suit-minus-jacket plan?
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

myztikrice posted...

'Did you manage to see your father before he left?'
'Nah I was cleaning out my cat's litter box'

She was waiting around at home for half an hour for her family to come pick her up before leaving. Plenty of time to do some type of preparation.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

eston posted...

Most people wouldn't just leave their pets for 5 days. Chances are she'll be back to feed them or ask a friend to do it.

I dunno, I texted her about it and all she said was "I have other things on my mind". Which is fair, but no indication of concern or forethought.

Maybe I'd be more understanding if she were more responsible in the first place. This isn't the first time she's left town with her stuff in a disgusting mess.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

...putting any affairs in order. Specifically, her cat and guinea pig had no food in the house, the latter hadn't had his cage cleaned in weeks, the former's litter box was too full for him to use, and there was days-old food left all over her room.

I know that emergencies happen, but life can't stop because of them. If she lived on her own, her pets might have starved (she'll be gone 5 days in total).

Don't get pets if you can't look after them or make arrangements for them.

Am I being too cold here?
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

Not only are they annoying to live with when they go into heat, but their temperament is worse and they seem to generally be more stressed than fixed animals.

My roommate picked up a stray cat a couple years ago (before we were roommates or else I would've told him to take her to a shelter), and can't afford to get her fixed, so she's currently running around the house howling and sticking her ass in everyone's face.

Don't be bad pet owners.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

joe40001 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

It'll fail

How?

The body is forced to go into ketosis and fat burning mode and it also purges our lots of toxins and shit.

What do you think the liver is for? Also, can you define these toxins and show me scientific evidence from a peer-reviewed, reputable journal that detox diets are effective? Because I have lots of evidence that eating a balanced diet is healthy.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

AugustAdoulin posted...

I liked youtube better when everyone wasn't using it to make a quick buck anyway. :/ Now it is infested with cancerous videos with click bait titles, stupid pranks, toy reviews, giant surprise eggs, and giant gummy bottles.

Thank god for idubbbz.

You do have to filter through a lot of garbage, but that's true for any entertainment medium. I view YouTube as a replacement for TV, along with Netflix, and given the (non existent) cost of watching stuff on YouTube, I'm happy with it.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

AugustAdoulin posted...

Cheese_Crackers posted...

I dunno, I've seen some of my favourite YouTubers lose all of their ads over the last month. Maybe I have bad taste, but they all seem like good people that don't deserve to lose their income so suddenly.

they should go get a real job and upload their videos on the side then. :v

Ah, I see
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

AugustAdoulin posted...

Advertisers don't want their ads appearing on offensive, crazy videos on youtube so youtube put in place a new policy that marks channels as advertiser unfriendly and those videos won't receive ads anymore.

And thus, shitty youtubers who make cancerous khantent are shaking in their boots because they won't be able to suckle the youtube teat anymore.

I dunno, I've seen some of my favourite YouTubers lose all of their ads over the last month. Maybe I have bad taste, but they all seem like good people that don't deserve to lose their income so suddenly.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

I've been hearing a lot of people, especially YouTubers, complaining under their breath about losing ad revenue, but I'm having trouble finding an explanation for it.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

They happen roughly every 30 days. I think girls usually keep track and will put one in when the time draws near.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.

No, but I've had a butter sandwich before.
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Though the fear of death is a common one, the fear of life is a more rational one.