Lurker > Dels

UshiromiyaEva posted...

These people just seem like they like both! And if not for the story keeping them invested in the game maybe they'd be playing a different game's fight for 20 hours. You have to have the drive TO GET to that point in that game after all.

Yeah, that makes sense.

also (i'll drop this now lol but) i was chatting with someone in my raid group who does love the story and they were saying they were also disappointed that the latest villain just kind of showed up and said "yeah i'm evil i want to destroy the world hehehe" and so far has not had any other motives revealed.

so ITS NOT JUST ME! just saying!

(yes i'm aware the other ascians in ShB had better motives than that)

oh i like story games and visual novels as well. i'm a jrpg fan. if you told me, uh, 5 or 6 or whatever years ago that i'd play a game and skip all of its story i'd think you were crazy. this game is very much an exception. though, again, i really only mostly skipped ARR, and uh, i know i'm not alone in that so can you blame me.

Mac Arrowny posted...

It's sad that Dels hating the story is getting more response than Shake loving it.

this is how the world works >:) hate gets more clicks, that's why clickbait and outrage videos work

besides i think hate is just as valid a feeling as love

well i don't know about LtM but i know some people who are hardcore raiders who say the same thing, "i don't understand why you'd play if you don't like the story", and i'm just like, ????? i see you in raids 40 hours a week i know you're not doing story that whole time!

and i don't quite buy "fighting living liquid for 20 hours is fun because i'm invested in its story" soooo

UshiromiyaEva posted...

All of that stuff is excellent, sure.

But if it weren't for the story then none of that would matter to me. It's irrelevant.

It would be like saying "you should love Call of Duty games because the shooting is good". Like, sure, but who gives a shit?

but people do play call of duty because the shooting is good? lol. people play all sorts of games for gameplay!

i mean i played WoW back in the day too, not as hardcore as this, and it never made you do any forced cutscenes or anything. tons of people did. so the idea of people playing an MMO for the not story stuff doesn't feel very absurd to me.

and yeah sounds like you understand lol. now imagine if FFXV had all this other stuff you liked, but in order to get to it, you *had* to watch all the cutscenes.

okay granted this doesn't quite fit because i did force myself to watch 3 entire expansions worth but you can't say i didn't give it a chance

though i named multiple parts i liked tbf. if i actually hated HW, SB, or ShB, i would've started skipping much earlier. i think they're mostly alright.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Sure! FFXV is an absolutely worthless product that is a failure in literally ever feasible aspect. I LOVE talking about what an irredeemable piece of shit that game is.

I just don't see what the game really has to offer if you hate the story. Obviously I love plenty of the gameplay bits, but that's heavily the result of context and narrative around it. If this game was just a bunch of loreless set pieces you selected from a menu with no setup or background...it's be like...a 5/10?

Still better than XV.

i mean i hear this a lot from story-lovers and i consider it basically just as offensive as you consider me saying i hate the story. like, this game is amazing? the areas are beautiful, the battle system is fun, learning how every job plays is super interesting, the boss battles are fantastic, the OST is perfect, and everything is just super polished and stylish. so why say "if it wasn't for the story i wouldn't play it"? feels like that's downplaying all the other stuff.

hell you don't even have story for 3 months at a time usually but i'm assuming you stay subscribed and do things.

y'all don't have any pieces of media that you just absolutely despise and can't stop talking about how much you hate them?

well, i like everything else about the game. it's too bad there's this one part of it that i hate.

oh and that last bit applies to heroes too, characters whose entire personality and development is "i'm a really good person! i'm so noble! i love everyone! i just want to do good and help the world! sometimes i get sad because i can't help enough and because the villains are evil :( but yay friendship!" which is what both aymeric and graha tia fall into

like their level of depth is being at a job interview being asked what your greatest weakness is and all they can answer is "sometimes i'm just SUCH a good person that i self-sacrifice too much"

i like characters like ardbert or emet selch way more because they're not just, whatever the equivalent of a male mary sue is

mostly i just have such terrible memories of the ARR story that i just could never get fully invested in the game's plot or characters, even though it admittedly improved in the expansions. i started skipping around level 30 or so back in the day after trying to watch scene and it just got so unbearable.

i came back years later and played post-ARR and the expansions for real but i could never get past the associations with how bad ARR was.

i actually like most of the characters that debut post-ARR. lyse is the best.

i got through three expansions and it wasn't terrible but i started skipping again during post-ShB because i just find all the "let's sit around and talk for 30 minutes about why aether works the way it does and let's go into this tomb and learn the history of these ancient people" so boring. i hate history lessons. also the game has too many villains whose story is "we are evil and we want to destroy the world / we just want to kill you because fighting is fun"

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I mean...how can you know...?

because i skip now after playing through multiple expansions lol

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Didn't you just say you skip cutscenes? <_<

and why do you think i do lol. because i don't like most of the characters.

wow, i hate all 3 of them!

You can buy 510 off the marketboard, which is enough to get you in to any content in the game for the rest of this week, plus to start the Endwalker storyline and be fine in the first dungeon there.

GuessMyUserName posted...

I think this take is rather one-sided then, because people are allowed to be ignorant because that's humans "in reality" but we have to tut-tut at the equal reality that if you go off spouting ignorance in support of bigotry then yeah you're gonna get "piled" on. Is that ideal? No, I absolutely agree it'll make the individual feel attacked, but why expect everyone incensed by said ignorance to silence themselves because others will have it covered? People naturally want their opinions to be heard so if you don't choose your words right there will be a blowback.

You're putting too much of the onus on everyone else, a large group of individuals with different levels of skin in the game, over the actual instigator's responsibility to choose their words. You say that you have this feeling because you can relate to puns which is entirely reasonable... but that's a bias that offers one-sided leniency.

That's fair. All I can say is that personally speaking, I try to embody this as well, which means when I see someone say something that I think is ignorant and hurtful, I also backspace and retype my message half a dozen times to go from "Fuck you" to "I get why you feel that way but I think what you've just said is potentially missing... etc"

Yes it's respectability politics but uh I think respectability is important, for practical reasons. That doesn't mean I don't allow people to be angry, just depends on the space and who they are speaking to.

And yes I agree re. onus, that's why I said I'm being hypocritical in regards to who I'm expecting to behave perfectly. I do have bias. Everyone does.

This next line goes hand-in-hand with my point on putting the onus of level-headed debate on one end. This is respectability politics and it fundamentally does not work in a vast online society where people can always pick-up whatever ammunition they want to believe what they want.

Maybe, but feels a bit pessimistic. I have to believe there is some way to counter it, otherwise I wouldn't even try. For most of us, since we are not big activists, you may only be able to convince a few people. I am naive though.

A bit more sharply I feel the need to point out an explanation for why the "left leaning" excuse is met with such hostility, because it's often used as a cudgel warning people to stop saying things the "left-leaning" person doesn't have to bother taking the sincerity to understand, or else they'll personally go change their views and work against your rights. It's a threat, and I can't blame someone calling their bluff to say "do it then".

i can see viewing it that way. i'm not sure i agree it always has the intent of a threat, but like i said, no one should be changing political views because of online fighting, so i'm in support of anything that encourages people to not do that, and that doesn't promote that being a justifiable stance.

fair enough. i don't have anything else to say.

GuessMyUserName posted...

The real issue about "I'm left-leaning you guys" is that being left-leaning has zero relevance towards issues of bigotry. Dave Chappelle isn't some right-wing conservative, "left-leaning" individuals are perfectly capable of being ignorant towards the issues of racism and transphobia - just ask the UK where TERFism quite clearly crosses political lines.

It's a weak argument to use your "leaning" status as some accreditation of an understanding you quite blatantly do not hold.

i agree and i think "i'm left leaning but" should kind of go the way of "i'm not racist but"

i prefer to not try to disclaim things, even if only because the people who would get upset about whatever statement follows, won't care about your disclaimer anyway, so it's not useful anyway.

Tom Bombadil posted...

that is the most common followup I've seen to "I'm leaving the left u guys r meen," I think. I'm inclined to give puns benefit of the doubt and hindsight, but I've rarely seen that kind of argument from somebody who hasn't already gone full alt-right

i feel this could be confirmation bias.

i mean, i think you guys are mean but i do not plan to become alt-right as of now. so there's one for your sample size lol.

GuessMyUserName posted...

if you're admittedly ignorant on a situation involving racism/transphobia/bigotry you can always try asking what the problem is instead of jumping to misinterpreting the situation, whining cancel culture instead of listening to criticism, and making inflammatory statements like calling said criticism an embarrassment juxtaposed against right-wing madness.

well, again, practically speaking, i just don't think that's how people are. in an ideal world, sure. but in reality, most people who "don't get" a topic are just gonna be like "yo i don't get this" because people mostly default to just saying whatever they think. you wanna change that, sure, okay. noble cause. i've gotten into enough shit for doing what turbo did that i've built up the habit of trying to start off a lot more politely but i just don't expect everyone to be there.

like, the very fact that someone "doesn't get" a topic means they also don't get why people would be upset about them saying they don't get it. so it kind of prohibits them from even taking the step of thinking "i should be very careful how i say this". y'know?

but again, puns was drunk which wang apparently thinks is our fault

this now is very true, when every time you try it amounts to being completely ignored so people can go off on personal tangents then yeah at some point you get exhausted and give up

and minorities face this shit all the bloody time particularly now that all criticism gets shouted down as cancel culture, some bullshit rhetoric that just tells people "you can completely dismiss any and all criticism i get because they're all just haters"

All trans content creators I watch now always have to add disclaimers to their critique about how they aren't "cancelling" anyone or don't even find so and so comments personally offensive, as a direct response to trolls always filling up the comments that "i won't let you cancel x!" and whatever dumb snowflake accusation you can think of - which still doesn't work because these people a) don't even watch their critiques or b) don't want to believe them because that ruins their narrative.

i think that's all the more reason not to give people ammunition to support that narrative.

but i guess i'd be a hypocrite because i'm saying "i don't expect people like turbo to act perfectly rationally and politely 100% of the time because of their emotions" so i can't expect you to either.

and you're right, some people will run with the narrative anyway because forces way larger than our control are perpetuating those narratives.

Hbthebattle posted...

if they're willing to become literal racists at the drop of a hat I don't really think they were ever left leaning

is turbo willing to become a "literal racist"?!

GuessMyUserName posted...

good discussion is completely wasted here as I've pointed out it's constantly ignored to go for low hanging fruit

every damn time I bother making an effort it's for nothing

so maybe you are so used to encountering bad people who don't listen, that when you encounter someone who is expressing a view you disagree with / think is ignorant, your bar is now way lower and you immediately assume the same thing is going to happen, so you give them less of a chance

though you also didn't make the comments i was referencing as being too mean/dismissive

Tom Bombadil posted...

That's regrettable but I don't think it should stop us from calling out people who say or do something crappy.

so call it out, but "go believe in your jewish space lasers, MAGA" is not a "call out".

there isn't a single person on this planet who is going to be in the right headspace to listen to your personal experience after being told that. unless they have the maturity/patience of a saint, which is a really high bar most people won't pass.

I don't think people should change their opinions on the those topics because people are mean to them, but I think they do. Humans are more emotional than logical. If an entire topic of left-leaning people start treating you like shit, you are inevitably going to start to associate bad feelings with "the left" and will become more biased towards the side that isn't treating you like shit.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Ive read this post literally a million times from people who are now MAGA af, might as well just go mask off dude

have you considered that maybe the reason those people "become MAGA af" (in your eyes) is because you push them away the moment they make one post saying "idk i'm left-leaning i just have some concerns"?

do we know if the new jobs will have job quests?

since 70-80 don't have quests for any other job, but if sage and reaper don't then they'd be the only jobs without a quest series. so i'm assuming they will have some...?

i don't personally care because i don't do them / i skip cutscenes, but i'm curious from a design perspective since it'd create an asymetrical quest distribution compared to other jobs.

Luis_Sera89 posted...

Yeah, I know there are people who have a defined image in their head on how they want their job to look, and they re-glamour to that look with every new piece of gear that they get, and that's fine. I like the feeling of progression that comes with constantly upgrading gear, like it's a Metroidvania or something. Even if it looks bad, I'm only wearing it for a relatively short period of time anyway.

So in case you don't know this, you don't have to "re-glamour" every piece of gear - In your gear set list at the top right of your character sheet (presumably what you use to change jobs), you can right click any gear set and link it to a glamour plate. That means you automatically glamour every time you equip it, you don't need to manually glamour each piece every time you get it.

I have the same stance though, I don't glamour a job until it is level 80. The MMO experience of wearing a bunch of mismatched pieces of junk is classic.

I'm not necessarily planning to level either of them right away, but it's nice to know that 70-71 bump is taken care.

I am looking forward to Sage, but Scholar is just fine for now and I'd rather hit 80 asap rather than spend the first day catching up.

The servers will go down on Thursday around 4:00AM EST and will go back up Friday around 4:00AM EST, at that point everything will have changed. Before that, nothing.

Mostly because the quest's "level" counts as 70 for all of them, so you can't be lower than them.

You can turn in any ShB area sidequest, even if you're lower than it's level. I'm pretty sure I have done this before on alt jobs.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

All these countdown accounts in Twitter using the retail release date, like 95% of the people following don't have it preordered.

My assumption is that the point of the early access is to sort of help with the server load, making it so that only the most dedicated are logging in early.

I could be wrong, I have no idea, that's just what I assumed. If that's the case, then it makes sense to keep as many announcements/promo material focusing on the retail date. If you're not following closely enough to realize you can get on 4 days earlier, great, please only log in on Dec 7th after the initial rush is over.

Leonhart4 posted...

I love how some people's first thoughts about remakes are "maybe they'll change all the stuff I hated about it"

I think there's a difference between "stuff I hated" and "stuff I thought was weak"

I didn't hate the lack of character development, it's just a clear area for improvement

If someone said "Oh, great, this will give them a chance to change the Element Grid for a new battle system", that would be them wanting a change to something they hate.

Asking for story changes is somewhat of a middleground, but I think wanting the story told in a slightly clearer way with less of it conveyed via a massive text dump at the end, would also lean more towards wanting to improve an area that was lacking, not just hoping something you dislike is changed.

yeah i'm going to adjust my hopes back down to zero after this dumb misleading headline got them up. a remake is very unlikely.

MrGreenonion posted...

The problem I had with Chrono Cross's characters wasn't that there were too many, it was that they weren't unique enough. Like their designs were cool, but in combat they felt way too similar. With that many characters, picking your team in CC should be like picking a team in Pokemon or Marvel vs Capcom. There weren't enough characters who were really "out there" in terms of gameplay. They weren't even as varied as FFV jobs.

I liked the game okay, but the plot really lost focus for me at some point during the part where you play as Lynx and I just wasn't feeling compelled anymore.

Also, there's a reason Suikoden at least has a party of 6.

With a party of 3, and Serge locked in, you only get to pick 2 characters at a time!

And the characters were totally not balanced either. I get that it's a single player RPG and the difficult isn't high, but some characters just have absolutely no reason to pick them because their stats just suck.

Leonhart4 posted...

I don't know why you'd expect all those characters to get development in a remake. If anything, the most irrelevant characters get cut.

maybe! who knows! i wouldn't say i'd expect it, but it would be nice if it did happen.

most of the characters are pretty cool, at least in terms of design and first impression!

sadly, many of them don't get any development past that first impression

hence why a remake would be lovely

i voted yes but its a "i have it installed and i open it like maybe once every few months when i'm really bored"

yeah, this article is pretty unclear on if its remake or remaster. the latter would be nice but is a lot less exciting. remake though...

desynth and market board is basically the only way i make money

i'm too lazy for anything else

he doesn't look like other roegadyns

so, yeah

oh. i always assumed he was human.

transience posted...

not in the top 5, I don't think! let's make a top 5, from 1 to 5:

https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Snake_Plant
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Writhing_Mass
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Spire_Growth
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Shelled_Parasite
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Shapes

(Snecko might be 5, but on high ascensions the spikers can be real pains)

i've never thought about ranking this much but i'd agree with snake plant and shelled parasite. act 2 is brutal.

shapes i almost never have a problem with... i'm more scared of 3x jaw worm if they all attack on the same turn. so annoying when that happens.

i also hate 4x gremlins in act 1. that one completely screws me over sometimes if i haven't picked up the AoE/backstab/etc that i need.

cultist + bird would probably also make my top 5.

Storm of Steel

transience posted...

I could talk about this game for literally weeks. I could probably write 300-500 words on every single card, relic and event in this game. (Sounds kinda fun, actually. I would do it but nobody else is as sick as me when it comes to this game.) I have strong opinions on what cards synergize with what. I spend so much time just thinking about this game.

i think you underestimate how many people on this board have also invested this many hours into spire and could follow such a topic

i don't know, i'd assume it does since stats should matter, but augmented scaevaen is really easy to get so i would just do that either way.

that's true, i suppose when i saw the description i was thinking more community managers and stuff. i feel we don't really talk with the devs, but yes, they do communicate that stuff well.

i mean, i don't really associate FFXIV with community support.

do the devs even pay attention to the NA playerbase at all???

i suppose the live letters and stuff count as community though, and yoshi p is a great communicator.

CoolCly posted...

I forget where it is but for my mouse and keyboard, there's an option so that tab targeting only targets enemies in a nearby cone in front of me, so it doens't select enemies very far away that aren't in the fight. I wonder if that's the problem? Does controller have a similar setting?

yes.

i'm not great at targeting either which is why i play a healer in most games tbh so i can only target party members.

but at some point i guess i got used to it. i just press d-pad left or right a few times and be very responsive to make sure i see the correct enemy light up.

it's not a super big deal because most of the time you are a) in the middle of a group of mobs, in which case all you care about is spamming total eclipse anyway, or b) a boss fight, which usually has a single enemy.

some boss fights have two enemies sometimes, it's pretty rare for a fight to have a million fire sprites like halatali.

yeah, once you target something with the d-pad, whether its using left/right for enemies, up/down for party list, or L+up/down for the aggro list, you have to press X (ps) or A (xbox) to lock that in as your new target, otherwise it just soft-targets them for one skill and resets

i think there are settings in the menu for how the left/right targeting works, i think people mentioned the "cone" thing, so it tries to work left/right from what's on the screen, based on a cone area in front of you? something like that.

yeah, i've never even heard of changing targetings with R2/R1/L1. i can't imagine doing that.