Board 8 > Post Slay the Spire things and I'll talk way too much about them.

(+) Yeah! (+)

For everyone since I really dont know

Have yall every destroyed the transient before it destroys itself?

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yeah, it's one of the achievements. the easiest way is to dump a boatload of poison on him with multiple catalyst+'s. Watcher has some crazy stuff she can do too and there's no reason to ever really leave wrath (outside of maybe to generate energy).

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The only elite that I think is almost never the worst one to face is Nemesis, but he can be a problem sometimes; all of the other elites are potentially ruinous to face, I kinda think Gremlin Leader is arguably the worst to face on act 2 depending on your playstyle

Dr_Football posted...

For everyone since I really dont know

Have yall every destroyed the transient before it destroys itself?

to be honest I do this somewhat frequently

I had a feeling it was somewhat common, and Ive come close a couple times but I think this is one of those things where I should learn how to optimize everything better

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Nemesis doesn't scale. he can be a pain if you draw poorly into the intangible turns, but if you're on act 3 you should be working on some form of scaling and you can do that on his off turns.

Gremlin Leader.. well, in general, act 2 is all about AOE damage. the birds, the 3 cultists, gremlin leader and the slavers are all really rough if you only focus on single target damage. that can extend to automaton and the collector as well. if you let Gremlin Leader's minions stick around then you're going to be in real bad shape against him. if you plan appropriately, he's tolerable.

Slavers are rough because their first turn can do like 30 damage, and book of stabbing scales up quicker than Gremlin Leader. it all depends on who you're playing as. I think Defect has the hardest act 2 by a good bit because his orbs are all inherently single target. Electrodynamics is such a huge card for surviving act 2 because of that.

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Your opinion on the masked bandits event? (Pay all gold or fight the 3 of them)

Personally I almost always fight them even when I really shouldn't. "Yeah my deck isn't great but I can probably take them" *dies on like turn 3* *shocked Pikachu face*

but then i'm terrible at the game despite putting in like 150 hours

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I fight them 99% of the time. the other day, I had Ectoplasm and had 2 gold left, so I decided to skip it. later on that run, I found the red mask in an act 3 event, which I didn't even know about because I always either have the mask or die.

that's another act 2 fight that's multitarget. if you kill Bear turn 1 then you'll be just fine. it's his debuff that wrecks you.

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man, defect is absolutely silly
i somehow lazily failed a brief attempt yesterday in act 1, and today i beat the heart without breaking a sweat by drawing approximately a billion cards using powers. i don't know if any other character feels that degree of either underpowered or completely busted depending on how quick you get rolling

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Defect feels like the least skilled run since the difference between good and bad just comes down to what you're offered. there's more to the character than just that one thing but there's no doubt that extreme focus scaling is a clear win button.

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I have the most luck with Defect mainly because if you get offered the right stuff you'll just win easily

Rank/tier the best and worst +1 energy boss relics

transience posted...

not in the top 5, I don't think! let's make a top 5, from 1 to 5:

https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Snake_Plant
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Writhing_Mass
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Spire_Growth
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Shelled_Parasite
https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Shapes

(Snecko might be 5, but on high ascensions the spikers can be real pains)

i've never thought about ranking this much but i'd agree with snake plant and shelled parasite. act 2 is brutal.

shapes i almost never have a problem with... i'm more scared of 3x jaw worm if they all attack on the same turn. so annoying when that happens.

i also hate 4x gremlins in act 1. that one completely screws me over sometimes if i haven't picked up the AoE/backstab/etc that i need.

cultist + bird would probably also make my top 5.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Rank/tier the best and worst +1 energy boss relics

this is super situational - when are you getting these relics? what do you have? is it a boss relic swap or are you getting them on act 1, act 2? but, trying to put all of that aside..

sozu (potions) > cursed key (curse for opening a chest) > ectoplasm (gold) > fusion hammer (smithing) > velvet choker (6 cards) > busted crown (1 card reward) > slaver's collar (bosses and elite only) > philosopher's stone (+1 strength to enemies) > runic done (can't see enemy intents) > coffee dripper (cannot rest)

having done this, I feel like it's actually a fairly useless ranking because you can't judge anything. velvet choker, for example, depends super heavily on your deck, and if you're playing silent you shouldn't even consider it unless you're just dumping poison like crazy. busted crown is a better reward after act 1 than if you boss relic swap, where you're pretty much done. slaver's collar is a pretty good act 2 relic but not a great act 1 because you really want 4 energy to deal with act 2's rough multi-target common encounters. I don't have a real issue with avoiding enemy intents because for half of them I don't need it at all.. but there are some enemies that are a little more randomized and it can really screw you up. it all depends.

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I'm not sure if this is 100% right but I'm going with it. only regular relics listed here, no boss or event relics and nothing class-specific either



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I never ever swap for the boss relic because I'm too afraid of the bad stuff like runic dome or coffee dripper

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See Sozu has become one of my least favorite boss relics to be honest because I think potions are really powerful nowadays

what ascension do you play on?

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always 20

okay were on the same page. Sozu certainly has its drawbacks. it just isnt an every turn kind of drawback, or something where you have 7 hp and somehow need to not get hit. if you can get potion belt or white beast statue or alchemize or something like that then its definitely bad.

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Like, on Silent I just really like to try to carry at least one intangible potion into act 4 if I can, and not being able to do that makes me very sad

okay speaking of which talk about Sacred Bark, do you take it (I do sometimes!)

oh man talk about a miracle (you cant see it but I have blasphemy on here)

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Madness.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Like, on Silent I just really like to try to carry at least one intangible potion into act 4 if I can, and not being able to do that makes me very sad

okay speaking of which talk about Sacred Bark, do you take it (I do sometimes!)

I need a tangible reason to take it, and in my mind there's really only two, maybe three: white beast statue, alchemize and maaaaybe potion belt. it's awesome when it hits, but you can't use it every fight, let alone every round. some potions, like the upgrade one or elixir or entropic brew, don't have any effect.

but if you've got 2-3 potions banked on the heart, it's awesome. I just probably won't make it there because I'm rocking 3 energy in act 2 and getting whipped by gremlin leader or whatever.

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also, I have a horrible tendency to not use my potions and end up having to discard them when I'm full. I should probably stick to things like block potions because they're so concrete, but things like the +5 dex potion just end up going unused because I always think there's going to be some magic time to use it and there never is.

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10 most worthless cards.

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Transforming cards

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catalyst

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Lolo_Guru posted...

10 most worthless cards.

hmmm. we'll do a bottom 5 for each class, exclude strikes/defends and leave the colorless ones alone.

Ironclad

1. Clash - One of the easiest ways to tell how good someone is at STS is to ask them their opinion of Clash. Once you get to a decent enough ascension level, this card is pretty much unplayable in most hands thanks to all the status cards. Ironclad has tons of cards that even add status cards, and even has two power cards that encourage you to get them. Whenever I end up with Clash, it feels more like a curse than a tangible benefit, and when I get to play it I'm a little surprised. Even when you do, 12/16 damage isn't THAT good when you could have spent that energy/card draw not playing every skill/power card you had.
2. Brutality - I dunno, I like card draw but not like this. It might be OK when you get into later acts and just need to draw a ton, but ehhhh. Maybe if you had tungsten rod?
3. Thunderclap - like, this card isn't *bad*, but 4 damage to all? It's so mediocre. Its best use is probably removing artifact charges from multiple enemies at once, which is basically just the sentries and the act 4 elite. You aren't often in a position to do a whole lot with this card. I'd rather have Cleave which doesn't need a good situation to work out. Vulnerable is great and all but it only lasts one turn, even upgraded. If Thunderclap's upgrade was 4 damage/2 vulnerable then yeah, I'd be down.
4. Havoc
5. Warcry - Both of these cards just feel kinda useless. Havoc could maybe be good if you were trying to get rid of a bad card or had some kind of exhaust synergy going - feel no pain, dark embrace, juggernaut, dead branch, something like that - but it just feels so situational. Warcry is only good if you draw an expensive card that you can't play along with it.

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Silent

1. Grand Finale - lol this card. You can make it work! It's usually just not worth building an entire deck around it. By the time you get to act 3 (and even some of act 2), 50/60 damage just isn't that good.
2. Doppelganger - I just do not like this card. Silent has so many good uses for energy and I rarely have the time to just throw 2-3 energy into getting more energy and cards next turn. I often play it at 0 energy just to exhaust it. Why is this card rare?
3. Eviscerate - it can have its uses, say, if you get a Prepared+ or something like that. But like, why not just get Skewer? You have to draw it along with the right cards to make it work. If you have a Tools of the Trade in play or something like that, sure, maybe this works. I rarely play it right.
4. Expertise - I just never want to sacrifice energy for cards. Plus, you have to have a low number of cards to make it worth it.
5. Setup - I had a crazy situation in a Dead Branch run where I played Setup on Wraith Form, draw it the next turn for 0 energy, and then got Nightmare which I played for 3 0 cost Wraith Forms on turn 3. I'll never get that lucky again.

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Defect

1. Reprogram - there are ways to utilize Reprogram, like a claw deck with Hyperbeam, Hologram and the other 0 cost cards. I just can never risk my focus being garbage. Even if you have something like Orange Pellets to clear the debuff, the most focus you're going to be at is neutral. If this card was like Fasting and gave 3-4 str/dex then that would be a different story.
2. Thunder Strike - It's probably okay with Snecko Eye. If I'm channeling like 15 lightning to make this card worth it, I'm probably going to be able to kill some other way.
3. Blizzard - ditto for Blizzard.
4. Overclock - Ironclad has cards like this but he can also Exhaust them or play something like Fire Breathing/Evolve to benefit from them. For burns, you'd probably need a recycle. Defect is bad with card draw but even with that I'd rather grab a Skim or a Compile Driver or an FTL if you need it to be 0 energy.
5. Hello World - I talked about this earlier. This card's pretty useful when you're coming up to the first elite, but by the time you're into act 2 it's basically a curse or it's clogging up your deck with mediocre cards.

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Watcher

1. Simmering Fury - I need my Watcher to be as risk-free as possible and I don't want to chance it with this card. I guess if you had a transquility that it would be decent but ehhhh. I just don't see a need to have this in my deck.
2. Windmill Strike/Perseverance - Watcher is a glass cannon that blows things up very quickly. These cards would be alright on someone slower like Defect or Silent but they feel misplaced on Watcher. I had a heart kill today with Watcher where I removed Perseverance in the act 4 store because it was just clogging up my hand.
3. Alpha - This also feels misplaced on Watcher. When I first started playing Watcher, this + a really thin deck (~10 cards) was my go-to, and if you go that extreme, it kinda works? You still need like 15 turns to kill the heart that way, and the energy cost to get it into play is more than I'd like. Put it on Defect with a frost orb setup going and you can just click end turn and win, but that's not Watcher's style.
4. Like Water - Kinda nice for act 1. Adding 5/7 block in act 3 when things are hitting you for 50, not so much.
5. Signature Move - I used to think this card was great! If you're in divinity it can really mess things up. Watcher just has so many ways to play an endless amount of cards with stance switching and scry, and amazing cards like Talk to the Hand don't benefit from this card. I feel similarly about Reach Heaven. Signature Move is good early on but once again, as things scale up that damage isn't really what you need.

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Most impactful card upgrades

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SSBM_Guy posted...

catalyst

A monster card that can deliver a finishing blow. I used to pick it early in act 1 without any poison cards because it's that good once you start layering on poison.

I don't do that anymore, mostly because of the buffs to Silent in v2.2 now make poison less of a necessity, but also because I just don't like the idea of picking up the finisher before getting the building blocks. It's like choosing Finisher before getting 3 Blade Dances or something like that.

Anyway, Catalyst is a monster card that can really wreck fights, especially if you pair it with a corpse explosion. One thing to note is that there's not really a need to drop more than 100ish poison on an enemy, especially the heart because of that obnoxious damage limit. The only exception here is Time Eater or Champ because if you play it right, you can cut right through their cleansing powers at half health.

Oh, and upgrade it.

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SirBinro posted...

Transforming cards

It's almost always good! I recommend it.

There's a debate to be had on the Transform vs. Remove vs. Upgrade event but my general logic is Transform > Remove because I almost always get that event in the first few floors of act 1 and I just want something that's not a strike or a defend. But, if I have a curse I'll probably go with remove.

edit: oh, and it's good to remember that if you have one of the egg relics, any card that you receive of that type will be upgraded. This goes doubly true for Pandora's Box.

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I think Blizzard is situationally useful enough to keep it out of the bottom 5. Decks where you just generate a lot of frost orbs are an easy way to win with Defect but sometimes you have a hard time finishing off the fight with a lack of offense and Blizzard just kinda fixes that. It's annoying to see it in early drafts though.

it just doesn't do that much damage. you need to summon like 15 frost orbs to make it worth it and all the while it's cycling through your deck like a curse.

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Good to know grand finale is as worthless as I thought it was!

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Ironclad annoys me because even though they have done some work on it to make some of its useless cards better, it's still very obvious how clear it is that Ironclad is the first character they designed and how a lot of the ideas they used just don't work very nicely. Clash and Warcry are both good examples of cards that just fundamentally don't work. I don't think Watcher has ANY cards that are bad in all situations - even Watcher's worst cards are sometimes situationally great (I value Simmering Fury a lot more than you do).

I agree with you. Watcher is the one class where nothing is really bad. Simmering Fury is okay! it's just, if you gave me the choice between taking that or Crescendo I would take Crescendo. I feel like it should be a 0 cost card when upgraded instead of drawing one more card.

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Colegreen_c12 posted...

Most impactful card upgrades

If you're measuring purely as an improvement from unupgraded card to upgraded card, then I'd go with Fission+ being the biggest upgrade. evoking vs. removing is such an obvious upgrade. I don't love Fission+ all the time but it's wayyyy better.

other cards that are really good upgraded:

Defragment+
Catalyst+
Loop+
Wraith Form+
Talk to the Hand+
After Image+
Hologram+
True Grit+
Limit Break+
Armaments+
Burst+

but these cards are all pretty great. here are some cards that go from being kinda okay to legit good:

Crippling Cloud+
Mental Fortress+
Rage+
Entrench+
Flame Barrier+
Whirlwind+
Neutralize+
Eruption+
Noxious Fumes+
Envenom+

(some of those are more than "kinda okay", but you get what I mean)

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i got super drunk last night, loaded it up, and beat it on my first run with the first class

lol

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I really like windmill strike and perserverance. I've had like 3 runs in a row where I got perseverance right befor ethe champ on A13+ and each time it saved my bacon

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Colorless cards (that you'll buy in the shop sometimes)
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What in your opinion is the ascension level that leads to the greatest jump in difficulty from the last one?

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Got any Time Eater lore?

Apotheosis is the obvious one. it's probably the best card in the game and can get you through act 1 without even really needing to take anything else.

Hand of Greed is really good early on. it's crazy that it doesn't exhaust. you can farm some of the beginning enemies and end up with like 500 gold through act 1 without taking any events. it falls off a little later but it's still a good card about equivalent to something like Carnage or Predator for the same cost.

beyond the obvious, I really like Flash of Steel and Finesse. they're really flexible cards that are essentially free - no cost to either energy or card draw since they draw a card. they're great for any scaling up, whether that's increasing strength/dex with shuriken or kunai, or if you've already got those buffs and the card scales on its own. things like After Image or Watcher's Duality relic work great with it. if you're Ironclad and have 6 strength, suddenly Flash of Steel is a free 9 damage. the only downside is for things like Time Eater or the heart's beat.

Panacea is good if you've got Biased Cog or Wraith Form, and if not, artifact charges are still super valuable. you can do cool things like play Panacea and drink a flex or dex potion and retain the 5 str/dex for the fight.

I like Panache on Silent with a shiv deck a lot. there are some nice 0 cost cards like Master of Strategy or Secret Weapon that are objectively good but I wouldn't drop 200 gold on them pretty much ever. they are really useful for getting your deck going though.

The Bomb is cute and seems incredibly good at first but is too slow for my tastes. decent for act 1 though, and not so much after that.

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Emeraldegg posted...

What in your opinion is the ascension level that leads to the greatest jump in difficulty from the last one?

it's probably... 17 or 18?, when the enemies level up a second time. that's so huge. my second place would probably ascension 10 or so when you start having to deal with Ascender's Bane every single fight. yuck.

ScepterOfLove posted...

Got any Time Eater lore?

I think Watcher gets some unique dialogue when she faces him!

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