Lurker > Romes187

EverDownward posted...

I've got ideas bouncing around in my head, and I've even put a couple things down but like the rest of my ideas there's a very good chance they'll just end up unfulfilled. There's some short stories I'd like to do, and one I REALLY want to do before I become too debilitated by the cancer I can't possibly write/type anymore...but, I don't know.

I still journal, but who knows for how much longer.

Ah man, keep pushing towards getting your stories out there!

spanky1 posted...

Gotta keep it alive!

Does anyone else have a really hard time writing during the weekend? I'm good during the work week, but then the weekend comes and I just cant bring myself to sit down and write

I usually don't. Family time.

Whats everyone's opinion on world building? I suck at it...its probably why I don't write fantasy haha

I'm fucking dying...haha

CanuckCowboy posted...

Romes187 posted...

Nice

I always forget about westerns. I think they used to be huge at one point.

Thanks.

Ill be honest if I hadnt read the sisters brothers I never would have had the idea to come up with a western.

The hardest part part of it is how many people end up dying that I didnt expect to. I think itll work well on an eventual re-write though since I was genuinely establishing those characters as opposed to writing them trying to establish them and knowing theyd die.

Also i could be wrong but I think Louis lamour (the king of dimestore westerns) is amongst the most translated and best selling authors ever. That dude wrote an unbelievable number of books.

I dont doubt it. Westerns May very well still be en Vogue. I know for a while there was a surge of them.

CanuckCowboy posted...

I have the discipline of a prolific offender. Lol.

Ive got a decent start on a western novel, a locally set novel loosely about bank robbers, a massive William Gibson inspired series that Ive been fucking with on and off since my late teens, and a story about a dog.

Well not not really about a dog. Its more about a dysfunctional family who treat their dog like shit then, after he runs away, the latter half is about loneliness and how you see your place in the world.

Nice

I always forget about westerns. I think they used to be huge at one point.

Eat More Beef posted...

I'm currently 37000ish words into my third book. Self published a collection of short stories through amazon (if anyone has any questions, pm me and I'll be glad to help) and my first full novel is with beta readers right now. It's 100k horror novel about a haunted hospital.

I'd like to get my first novel published traditionally, but we'll see. I told myself after getting 35 rejections, I'll self publish.

Already got one rejection, so baby steps I guess

Nice man! Rejection is just part of the process.

Do you have a pretty solid query?

LightningAce11 posted...

How do you guys figure out the meat and potatoes of the whole thing? I always make up events and scenarios but not connective tissue.

Every scene I ask myself what if...

Nice easy way to throw in conflict. Also writing the chapters from different characters POV can give you a different look if youre doing third person limited

Or another technique is yes but, no and

James walked to the store but on the way there a bully jumps him

Does he get away?

Yes, but once he reaches the store he finds the rest of the gang there

Or

No, and James gets a black eye after being knocked out. He decides to go to the hospital

Does he make it?

Yes but its on fire...
No, and aliens abduct him...

Or whatever. Keeps the conflict going

MBA but that doesnt reeaally count lmao

AlisLandale posted...

I'm stuck trying to get this story to flow. What I ended up doing is just bouncing around to different moments and writing down a really rough version of it. Not as barebones as a random note, but very dry. I think it's coming together. I'm going to revisit this later when I'm feeling more clear headed. Right now my story reads like a really bad clipshow lol.

This "arc" I finished sometime last year. But I've been redoing it basically from scratch. After it's finished and properly edited, I'm going to just shoot through with the rest of it and try not to go back until I've got a finished story, no matter how bad it is. And then I'm going to edit the whole thing piece by piece.

Yeah Ive had the clip show thing before

Gotta tighten that plot up!

R1masher posted...

Fine, but if the writing is good shouldnt it transcend shoehorned guidelines, break a mold, push an envelope... just feels cookie cutter idk

Of course

If I were a genius and could shit out quality writing without any thought, I wouldnt think about it as much. Unfortunately I am not and craft is something I need to learn.

Im glad you are able to produce high quality prose on the fly. Just remember we arent all able to.

Finally, getting traditionally published in genre fiction means following form. Im not a literary guy so cool artsy projects take a backseat to story telling for me

R1masher posted...

Why is there all these ridged formulas that you feel you need to adhere to?

Because Ive been doing art my entire life and I enjoy form.

And I want to write commercially which means following standards. It actually makes learning this stuff fun

Anyone ever try a screenplay?

I feel the hardest part is figuring out the whole minute = a page thing

love my carvin and my taylor <3

knutjob posted...

I dont see why it matters. The actual creative process takes place in your head before you put it down

Well I've heard some very famous and well-known authors claim they write better when handwriting their first draft. I'm not saying it matters which way you do it, but its kinda interesting to see how different people write. There's definitely no one way.

That brings up an interesting question in my head because I write my ideas down in my phone usually or type it into a textpad into a new folder

but I know a lot of major authors write by hand. I just can't do it...

plus my handwriting is garbage and I can't even read it afterwards.

late, but usually for actual writing. Premises and ideas come at any time and ill write them down if they bounce around enough

DuranOfForcena posted...

Romes187 posted...

Man I read it as non-fiction for some reason and have no idea why...my bad.

ah, i thought something like that might have been the case. no worries.

anyway, like i said, i think it is a pretty fun way of challenging yourself, so if that interests you or anyone else here, you guys oughta check it out. this is the one for this week:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasywriters/comments/dd6yet/fifty_word_fantasy_relearn/?st=k1ceoqv0&sh=7676f66c

"This is a micro-fiction writing prompt and challenge. Using a theme of Relearn and fantasy elements, write a coherent vignette or snippet using fifty words or less and post it as a comment."

my entry this week is:

"This is the one, sir." Ganelon confirmed to Kaladrian as they stopped in front of the slab where the wretched feltauri woman lay comatose. "The subject demonstrates a deep encephalic schism stemming from severe aethereal trauma during childhood. Half her mind is blank."

Kaladrian leered. "The perfect candidate for indoctrination."

Hey that's sweet! I like trying to keep things brief. I don't write fantasy but I do write thrillers. So here's a shot at a quick 49 word sci-fi thriller concept.

He stepped onto the podium and looked upon the ocean of clones he reigned over. A fitting scene for his final speech which was ruined before it began.
Voters of The Capitol, he said, his magnified voice echoing across the sky. This metal thing around my neck is a bomb.

MACisBack posted...

instead of shoehorning random thoughts/things in just to get a rough draft done.

Yeah that's always the danger of a fast draft (if its too random)

Makes the rewrite longer, but maybe more gems are dug up.

Feline_Heart posted...

A useless guy in his early twenties who has no direction in life finds out that his grandfather just died and left him a map to the most sought after treasure in the galaxy. So the guy spends all the money he has on a crappy spaceship and sets off to start a crew and claim the treasure. Along the way he ends up pissing off the intergalactic military police force, other pirates, and corrupt government officials who are also after the treasure. Its straightforward but I think itll be fun if I ever finish writing it

hah sweet - sounds like it'd make a cool webcomic too

DuranOfForcena posted...

lol well that would be just a bit over the limit.

Man I read it as non-fiction for some reason and have no idea why...my bad.

DuranOfForcena posted...

anyone like doing microfiction? there are weekly Fifty Word prompts on r/fantasywriters and r/scifiwriting that are usually pretty fun to do, and are good exercises at relating coherent ideas and vignettes in a brief, concise manner.

Yeah I have about 50k words of scattered thoughts that revolve around a cohesive idea but I just haven't had the drive to put it together.

Feline_Heart posted...

I just abandoned another novel before I even started writing and now Im remaking an older novel that I never finished writing. Its about space pirates lol

Nice, space pirates are always fun. Whats the hook?

and hope its with another chick

No_U_L7 posted...

All I know is I'm not supposed to order the most expensive thing on the menu

Can I buy a soda? Is alcohol acceptable?

Can I have add-ons like bacon/egg to a burger?

Can i get an appetizer/side dish?

Can I place a to go order like when my parents pays?

To clarify, my boss isnt rich: he only makes 12% more than me

Same rules as trying to ask for a threeway with your wife

Let her bring it up first

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

I'm at the beginning. No, not the first chapter or the first few pages. I mean I've got about 50 words.

Well, good luck to you all. This thread inspired me to start, at least.

Nice man! Try to set aside time every day.

I work full time so I would finish at 5, get home to hang with family, then after they went to bed I wrote from 9-1am for like 2 months straight.

knutjob posted...

spanky1 posted...

Really? Everything I've read says for fantasy 120k. 80 to 100 would be more for things like thrillers, young adult, romance, etc.

The impression I get is it's not so much the target amount that changes but the leeway you are likely to get. Fantasy is not really my thing tbh so you might be right

120k is standard for debut fantasy

But production costs start to rise the longer it gets.

No publisher wants to give a 5-10k advance on a project thats gonna cost more per piece than smaller better selling books. Well some might but they may want to see you have an audience already

Agents are strange folk

averagejoel posted...

Romes187 posted...

MedeaLysistrata posted...

do you ever smoke weed while composing or playing an instrument? outside of work hours, when jamming or whatever. help or harm?

I'll answer this one just because it relates

Practice high, play high is the old adage

It helps my composition, hurts if I'm playing something challenging because I'll overthink it and my hands will freeze up

I've never composed anything while high, though I have gotten ideas for arrangements while... under the influence. I even ended up playing one of them on my 4th year recital.

in my experience, it enhances the listening experience, but inhibits pretty much everything else. if I play or write while under the influence, it's not because I think it makes me better, it's strictly for the enjoyment of the experience.

and it absolutely does not make people more creative

so, in general, harm. but if all you want to do is listen, you might be able to hear things in the recording that you wouldn't have otherwise heard. so help, specifically for that.

Interesting. My mind definitely goes into places it normally doesnt go when sober. I dont know if that counts as more creative. But both work for me.

DuranOfForcena posted...

just a random thought for anyone who feels like answering. what is one of the craziest or most obscure things you think you have learned from doing research for your writing?

About a city named Dariganga in Mongolia

AvantgardeAClue posted...

153 pages and counting.

Ive hit a wall because I feel like the actual writing isnt gonna go so well with critics. Not that I should give a crap how they feel, but its always on the back of my mind

Yeah I have this all the time. Just gotta keep writing and rewriting and it gets better

spanky1 posted...

As of right now this moment, I am officially at 120K words. That's the ideal mark for publishing a first book in the fantasy genre. And I'm still in my second act. Fuck me.

You doing 3 act? Mine follows it pretty nicely. Though end of first chapter is the first inciting incident so its quick

spanky1 posted...

Butt Weathermen Do

haha yeah that was it

HotLap posted...

Im starting outline a short story about the competitive eating world, but I definitely need to do more research on the subject (why people get into it, contest prep, aftermaths, etc).

Sounds like a fun story

HotLap posted...

For those that have published novels, can you drop a link for it? Howd the release/reception/sales go? Id love to read what others from this board have written.

Same. I know someone on LUE was published, but it was sci-fi and got pretty bad reviews...dunno how many copies he sold.

I think the majority of debut authors sell under 1k copies and get around a 5k advance from what I've heard and read. But again, sometimes niche fiction like sci-fi, fantasy, horror, westerns....they have a dedicated readership, but it isn't mainstream fiction so the numbers never get super high.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

do you ever smoke weed while composing or playing an instrument? outside of work hours, when jamming or whatever. help or harm?

I'll answer this one just because it relates

Practice high, play high is the old adage

It helps my composition, hurts if I'm playing something challenging because I'll overthink it and my hands will freeze up

DuranOfForcena posted...

yeah i understand that no matter what happens, the first draft will be rough and probably pretty shitty, and the true potential is only realized after editing and redrafting and editing and redrafting etc. but i have tried to just keep writing in the past and it never felt right. the motivation for me is the opposite. if i don't know what happens next, then i struggle to pin down the reason for why i am writing the part that i am writing and what it is supposed to accomplish to further the narrative. if i feel like i don't know what it is supposed to accomplish, then i just end up questioning why i am writing this part at all. so outlining has definitely helped me figure out exactly what i need to write and why. my project involves a pretty intricate and multi-faceted history with a lot of moving pieces and separate threads that need to be tied together. i've found it's just impossible for me to develop it in any meaningful or satisfying way without knowing what all those threads and pieces are.

Gotcha. So one thing that helped me was definitely knowing where the characters were, and where they needed to get to next. But one thing I always did while creating the journey between the two was to inject some kind of crazy shit that I didn't think I'd be able to write myself out of. For example, there's a scene in my book where the main characters discover a clue that helps them find their next destination. Originally it was going to go somewhat smooth, but I decided to put the antagonist in the scene and he ends up literally kidnapping one of the characters on his way out.

Then I had to figure out how to make the timing work since the bad guy was taking the character about 6 hours north, the other characters needed to do something in opposite directions....etc etc...

So I had them split up and figured a way to make it all work nicely. And what was cool was the harder the position I put them in, the more clever the solution needed to be...and thats actually more interesting to read imo

DuranOfForcena posted...

yeah, i'm well aware of stuff like this. the worldbuilding is mostly for me and my own piece of mind. of course i'm not gonna do info dumps or inject too many details that don't make any difference. the readers will be fed what they need to know. but for me to do that effectively, i need to know everything. that's been my main goal lately.

Gotcha - if you can build an iceberg appropriately (only showing 10% but implying the other 90% under the water) it works so well and makes the world seem huge without being boring.

I may have the opposite problem where I didn't world build enough. But I'm going to let my reader tell me what they thought on that.

DuranOfForcena posted...

as for the whole gardener vs. architect thing (i hate the term panster lol, it just sounds really stupid to me), i am a hardline architect. i've tried going the gardener route in the past and all it's lead to is scrapping draft after draft because i was never satisfied with where and how it began or with trying to write characters that i didn't really have a proper characterization nailed down for

Are you a fan of GRRM? I know he uses those terms...yeah pantser sounds dumb but people seem to know it hah.

Have you tried to just keep writing? I knew there were a shit ton of things I'd need to change, but for the most part (unless it was absolutely glaring) I didn't go back to change it on the first draft. Or you might just be more comfortable outlining more. I find motivation to keep writing comes from me not knowing how things will turn out. If I know, it kills the surprise a bit (or at least how they get to the end needs to be unknown)

DuranOfForcena posted...

i've been working on the same epic fantasy/arcanepunk project for like half my life, but only in recent years has it taken a pretty solid shape, although only in the forms of an outline, notes and an extensive fleshing out of history and lore. and characters. i've been focusing heavily on getting that completed for a couple years now before i start another draft in earnest. i think it's gone pretty well so far. only time will tell for sure though.

That's awesome, and I'll just say that everything I've learned says you need to give that story up and start another one (again, if your goal is to get published).

You're likely way too close to the story and if you world build too much, you might think you need to inject every single detail because "of course people want to read it - the damn world is awesome!". And that might even be true, but make sure to get characters to interact with that world, because the interaction is what interests people. You don't want to info dump anything in the first chapter in my opinion.

New writers want to over explain because they think the reader needs to know 'this' detail otherwise the scene won't make sense. What they call "Won't make sense" I call "adding mystery and curiosity".

Then later on in the book, you info dump and they're so thankful because now the info is relevant to the character they've invested time into.

MacadamianNut3 posted...

Anyway tldr background aside, does anybody know of a good site with some interesting short stories that we could use as motivation? Or a good creative writing resource? I'm the programmer of the group and not the writer, but I havent programmed anything since we dont have a plot to motivate it

There are a lot of articles and some decent masterclasses from some big authors. Writing excuses is a good podcast as each episode is about 15-20 mins on one topic and they have like 14 seasons of content

vigorm0rtis posted...

Interesting, I started writing in earnest again a few years ago and was struggling with not knowing what genre I was writing-- not that it mattered, I'm more or less happy with the work, but I didn't know what to do with it as I started chasing down publication avenues. Just a couple months ago I was chasing down few authors that I wanted to read more of and realized I've been writing 'new weird.'

It really depends on how you want to publish. If you go traditional, you will have to know its genre and have proper things happen.

For instance, if you write a mystery, there are things that are standard and readers of the genre will want to see them happen (but in new ways).

If you want to write literary fiction, that's a different story. But most of those books either stay within lit circles, or sell under 1000 copies.

Not saying there aren't breakouts but there is only so much shelf space in a barnes and noble, and a publisher needs to know your book can sit next to the greats in a particular genre. The business side of writing is interesting too (I'm an MBA and my background is in marketing so I naturally like this stuff)

hockeybub89 posted...

Surely Republicans can find a smarter person to represent them

haha no

PerseusRad posted...

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.

I read every single day out loud for about an hour. I feel it helps my prose more than just reading to myself internally.

vigorm0rtis posted...

Do you read with an eye specifically toward improving your writing? At one point I noticed getting a little wordy, so I read The Complete Hemingway.

I just don't read anything in first person. My wife enjoys more cinematic style books and third limited lends itself best to that in my opinion (and her's). I stick mainly to thrillers which is what I like to write. I'm not big into world building, but if I wanted to write a fantasy, I would DEFINITELY read some before jumping in. When you write genre fiction, there are expectations built into the package that you should probably adhere to.

vigorm0rtis posted...

It's important to remember that nothing you're doing creatively is a waste of time. I worked on a comic in college, and while it didn't turn into anything, it was still valuable experience. Certainly, I look back at it now and realize I wasn't ready for it, and am kind of glad it didn't go anywhere because... man, that stuff sucks.

My man! That's exactly right. I have a shit done of music compositions I've done (been playing my whole life) but I'll never go pro. Doesn't stop it from being fulfilling!

R1masher posted...

Heres another writing

Aces and eights, hand of a dead man, the hand of a joker
Queen in the hole, poker face down on the table
Hit with a blackjack when ever Im able
Ante up or just say uncle, suicide king of the jungle
jack of all spades master of none, hearts in the right place when the deal is done

I like poetry

Here is a Haiku I wrote

La Belle Epoque

The ages of gold
Are often stacked above us
Idle with support

I wish I could write in first person better

spanky1 posted...

I outline but only in my head, so I dont know what that makes me. I know the full plot before I write the story, but some details may be missing or not fully fleshed out, and I leave room for new stuff if it hits me.

Man I dunno how you can keep a full plot in your head. I mean, I can keep my story in my head. But the plot usually has too many scenes for me to remember. Plus a lot are off the top of my head.

Superlinkbro posted...

I still write reviews on Gamefaqs as a hobby. I'll probably do Resident Evil 4 and Serious Sam HD in the upcoming weeks.

Nice! Any writing is good writing :)

AlisLandale posted...

I usually start out making stuff up as I go along. When I have a decent foundation, I flesh out the players and build an outline. And then I repeat the process in chunks, and then go back and edit them to streamline together.

Yeah I'm similar. Especially with characters because I don't give them too much backstory before writing. I really discover them through getting the plot down, then on re-writes I flesh out what they'd really say at that point. This can also change the scene by quite a bit

knutjob posted...

I wrote a psychological horror novel in 2016 and then spent 2017 editing and getting it beta read. It still needs a lot of work but I am a bit stuck. My main problems are that I was a heavy drinking mentally ill person in 2016 and now I'm not and I'm having problems connecting with my frame of mind from back then, and also my work atm requires a lot more screen time so I don't really feel like sitting in front of another one when I get home.

Btw absolutewrite is a good place to find beta readers.

I would say start a new book and write what makes you want to write more

Anyone here have a preference for pantsing versus outlining?

I do a little of both but I think pantsing helps me finish because I'm genuinely surprised and excited when something happens in the story.

I guess its true what they say - the first draft is so you can tell yourself the story.

I dont get it but I can believe it

400 million in this country. Itd be stupid and lame if we all thought the same way

Juhanor posted...

I would advise against NaNoWriMo

Haven't written anything in awhile but I've been considering tightening up the last thing I was working on.

Yeah? I wasnt gonna do it officially and had planned on setting a 50k deadline for the month. I wrote the 80k Im talking about in 2 months so I could do it I think.

But thats only if I can get this one in good enough shape to query. I need to start on the next one anyways

spanky1 posted...

It's your basic fantasy setting, but low key on the fantastical, Martin and Abercrombie style. Mostly deals with redeeming fallen villains, turning them into unlikely heroes, and sweet, sweet revenge.

I dunno, I did a lot of looking into traditional publishing, and the more I looked into it, the more unappealing it became. It's such an incredibly long process, too. I feel like it would just be too disheartening for me to pursue.

All I want to do is have my book in hand, anyway. I don't plan on making any money from it one way or another, so might as well self-publish.

Nice man. Would love to read it when its finished

ToPoPO posted...

Were you the guy who triggered a CEman so hard when you told him to write a novel?

Yessir :)

Oh nice. What genre?

If I had a platform, self publishing would be more enticing to me. Though if no one wants to buy the book (and odds are they wont) its a pretty low barrier to entry to getting it out there and available. Just hard to reach people.

Though Ive often though a well placed Facebook ad could reach a shit ton of people for 20 bucks a day. Just depends if you can get the right messaging.

Marketing is what I do for a living so maybe I could still make a little dough.

Either way writing the novel and actually finishing feels nice

But I do have a few new premises and I'm trying to figure out which one will stick

Sci-fi thriller - premise is in the future, we clone ourselves as our own representatives for voting. But after a while, the clones end up voting against their own interest.

Psychological thriller - teacher has a kid in class that tells her he's going to shoot the school up, but denies every time she mentions it to someone and starts to think she's losing her mind.

Middle Grade - Werewolf man that lives behind the school

I suck at first person POV and since middle grade is heavy into that, I probably won't be working on it just yet.

spanky1 posted...

Whaa I didn't know you were writing a novel! :O

How did you get your beta reader? The whole process seems extremely tricky to me. I scouted a guy from reddit who apparently is all about beta reading and is great at criticism and does it with a big discount compared to usual beta readers for hire.

I'm 116k words into my own novel. It'll probably end up around a bloated 200k words.

What's your book about?

I know one person that actually reads so I used her. Thought about joining a writing group around as well but don't have much time for that. My beta ready will not be industry or anything like that. All I asked of her was to tell me where pacing is off, where something doesn't make sense, etc. No suggestions on fixes, but simply structural issues.

Are you planning on trying to sell your novel? 200k is really big if you aren't published. Even for fantasy / sci-fi. Sounds like you know you'll have to cut quite a bit.

I have the opposite issue since I wrote an adventure thriller. I was very plot heavy and by the time I ran through my first draft, I was at about 70k words. I added in a few side plots and another character to arc through which gave it some more depth. Now it's at around 80k words with more world building and better character dev.

On my re-write it'll probably go up to around 85-90k. Then I'll send to agents.

How is/are your project(s) coming along?

My novel is going through beta reading right now. Need to get it back soon so I can go through my second re-write and polish it up to query.

Trying to get it done before November so I can do that NaNoWriMo thing

How about you all?

Thomas Sowell is great

Yeah Ive read a few. I usually read out loud to my wife and daughter

We did

The lost world
The Gideon crew series
And then there were none
Riptide
Deep storm

Maybe a few others this year. I reread dan browns books to them as well.

What can I say, Im a sucker for fast paced shallow fiction.

Your mom is probably gen x, no?

agreed with TC

movie was cool in the beginning, so-so throughout, and lame at the end.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Bet he couldnt even use a computer though

Michaelangelo would probably hate computers. Digital graphic design would be like completely antithetical to him.

By all accounts he was a genius that was extraordinary at everything he did, and became proficient very quickly

Im sure hed figure out a computer