Lurker > Jakyl25

You still never answered me as to whether or not you are criticizing Bush for his part in extending our stay in Iraq
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Also I like the precedent that if the UN tells us to do something or else there will be an armed invasion, we bring on our own destruction by not doing it
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Wow Corrik has found a way to be Lawful Neutral about the Iraq War
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Lets end the year on a bipartisan note

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/trump-signs-robo-call-bill/index.html

This is something only a libertarian could disagree with
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Also in what universe did we stay in Iraq for 10 years because of public opinion demanding it?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Corrik7 posted...

The Iraq War itself was fine and a resounding success. It was everything after that was the issue. We should have had Mission Accomplished and See Ya Later. We worried too much about public opinion than making a sound tactical decision for our own country.

It was a yes or no question
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Of all the stories from the last year, this is the one where the cop is out of a job?

Even the thin blue line does not tolerate besmirching the golden arches
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Also if we obliterated Iraq and then left I dont see how that stops it from becoming an Iranian puppet
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Corrik7 posted...

We should have just obliterated Iraq, got Saddam, ensured no nuclear weapons, and left. We wasted so much money trying to build that country up just for it to be an Iranian puppet.

Just to be clear, are you criticizing George W Bush here?

(And also Obama but thats a given.)
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Leonhart4 posted...

Oh, are we moving the flagpoles to include guides now?

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1212010733216641027?s=21

Good thing Republicans are known for caring a lot about attacks on our embassies
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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This complaint is buried under a dozen others

But one major problem with the segment is that it is not believable to me that the Lana character could be capable of even pretending to be the sort of partner Liv made her out to be.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Also SEP it was very funny seeing you try to leave the topic again and again only to keep coming back for more
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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I certainly am not blameless in that regard either, as any Politics Topic regular can attest to. Im not saying Im not a hypocrite
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Maybe the answers are in my sig

Eddie Guerrero and Blinking White Guy
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

okay. then.

in this topic, people have been more sarcastic, dismissive, elitist, and disrespectful toward me than mike matei was in that tweet. so I guess by your own logic their behavior cannot be tolerated either... and you should actually be defending me!

I kind of am! Im trying to let cooler heads prevail and examine why things got so nasty in such a way that only causes harm
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Oh wait, never mind, its Logan Paul

/s
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Who's your most admired person

Maybe this is the crux of the issue because the answer should be no one.

Real people should not be on a pedestal.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

But I think people who pick a President are deeply lacking in imagination and would do well to find better role models

This nails it.

Like is a President really the best youve got?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

can you HONESTLY tell me that this counts as behavior you absolutely CANNOT tolerate?

Yes

MariaTaylor posted...

against allowing social groups and especially celebrity opinions to decide the subjective value of categorical definitions which should only apply to individuals

Thats a fine stance to have, but its naive to think that its a problem you can ignore and itll go away, ironically despite that actually literally being how it could go away If everyone did that

I think the more effective approach is to be proactive about shutting down harmful gatekeeping, even if it means acknowledging someones outsized influence in the interim.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red13n posted...

I mean, take the entire first black president card away for a moment. Can you not admire how good of a fucking speaker Obama is? The dude is literally politically invincible because he is just so goddamn good at speaking words. Is that somehow not admirable?

Yes.

But thats not why people are voting him their Most Admired Man
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red13n posted...

Its not about power, its about aspirations. People don't aspire to be on the lowest end of a chain and Obama literally held the highest office in the United States while being black.

I dont value aspirations
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Drakeryn posted...

huh, okay

I feel like a lot of posts in this topic were "Yes they did beat the game, and you should stop gatekeeping aka having the wrong opinion"

(but I was wrong about SEP's view so I could be wrong about the others too)

There probably were some replies that were overly reductive to this point; youre right.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

my argument is that neither of your opinions matter -- even if I disagree with mike and you also disagree with mike. I never joined that discussion, because I also think ME disagreeing with mike does not matter. this is why I have only brought it up when it was specifically relevant.

I feel like thats a bit too close to nihilism for my tastes

MariaTaylor posted...

also keep in mind my initial post was not directed specifically at you. so using your own conduct as a defense for my earlier criticisms is a bit unfair. and tying your own behavior to StealThisSheen and others by saying "we" is also a very unfair and difficult way of arguing. it encourages me to give examples of things that they have done, to which you can always respond by saying "well I haven't done that." though you implicitly took on the burden of their behavior when you said "we."

Fair
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

like you claim that your argument is the same as mine, that a person does not need permission from the internet for their beliefs... and yet we have a whole topic about how mike's opinion is wrong. you -are- challenging his permission to hold those beliefs!

Have you heard of the Paradox of Tolerance?

"In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."

In my mind thats what people in this topic are doing here by rebutting Mateis opinion
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I'm not even sure who my most admired person would be

For you its probably Russell Wilson
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red13n posted...

you struggle with reasons to admire Obama?

I just, I don't quite have the ability to contemplate that.

I just dont think became President of the United States is, in and of itself, worthy of admiration.

Thats what I was saying earlier about how we default to admiring wealth and power. In this case it would be rising to power. Why is that admirable if you dont value power? Why should you value power?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Yes really.

Im open for counter arguments. Maybe Im missing something. I respect him for putting himself in the national spotlight of such a racist country knowing the hell it would bring his way. Im struggling to come up with anything more significant
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

you are effectively socially signaling to anyone who doesn't know who mike matei is that he is someone worth listening to,

Also I do agree with this, because he is someone worth knowing! Its not like I want to cancel Mike Matei over this. I want him to use his clout to do better than be exclusionary.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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StealThisSheen posted...

I think the disconnect is that we're arguing it's not cool to weaponize the opinion, belittle people over it, and so on, whereas he's saying "Suck it up and ignore it."

And really I think we are mostly laughing at him for caring so much, honestly? Kind of like Maria is! Were not so far apart here.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red13n posted...

I mean, is it really that hard to come up with a reason to admire Obama?

For him to be your MOST ADMIRED MAN? Yes
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

when in reality the act of "beating" a game has no intrinsic merit to begin with, and a person does not need permission from the internet to believe that using save states is valid OR that using save states is invalid. because their belief should only influence their own behavior, anyway.

Thats...exactly what we are arguing. Im not sure how you missed that and think we are arguing something else.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red13n posted...

I mean, the list isn't particularly horrible until you get to Trump.

Only because youre conditioned to admire wealth and power.

Gates is super philanthropic, and Carter is very selfless so late in his life, so thats something

But why should I admire either Obama? Or W? Or Melania?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-obama-tie-gallup-most-admired-man-poll-2019/

Americans are so fucked up

Stop admiring power
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

why do you care so much if mike matei says that you didn't beat the game?

Because its something people like myself have strong feelings about and its interesting to dissect where people are coming from

I could very easily say why do you care so much about why we care so much if Mike Matei says that you didnt beat a game? Presumably because you think our interest in the topic is worth discussing, no?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

but it sure is a WEIRD coincidence that the exact response to being accused of doing this... is you guys acting elitist and dismissing the opinion of anyone who accuses you of such.

I dont see how Im dismissing your opinion. I acknowledged that, given your interpretation of SEPs argument, your conclusions make sense.

MariaTaylor posted...

I have to say... there is definitely something to the fact that you guys felt the need to make an entire topic out of this, talking about how wrong mike is, and how anyone who thinks this way and says those things is an elitist a******, they must only believe it because of a superiority complex, etc. etc.

Its mostly because accessibility options in games is a hot button issue at the moment, and most people see it as a very positive, inclusive thing. Hes a person with influence and clout directly arguing against a progressive issue in the industry.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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https://twitter.com/wwe/status/1211848923293331462?s=21

If only this was true
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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If someone was presenting the argument that Maria interprets your viewpoint as, it really would be correct to call them just as elitist as Matei

Like any hypothetical dork out there going I beat Battletoads quicker than you because I used a Game Genie, suck on that! is being just as toxic as Mike
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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If the manner and method of completion is relevant to a discussion, it can easily be dissected in said discussion.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Like, the comeback against Matei is not Yes huh they did so beat the game!

Its Why do you care enough to try to put yourself above other people based on gatekeeping your hobby? Dont do that.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Mike Matei has decided it isnt beating a game and he is weaponizing that belief

SEP has decided that anyone can determine their own game completion status and it doesnt matter as long as no one weaponizes their belief
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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But which segment was faker?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

"the only difference is that you have decided that it 'is' beating a game, while your opposite side has decided that it 'isn't' beating a game."

Maybe I can cut through some of the heat here: this is not an accurate read of the issue
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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MariaTaylor posted...

I don't think I've ever tried to be a nice person before.

Coming in under the wire for understatement of the decade
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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I read the Browns were considering retaining Kitchens if he had beaten the Bengals

Wow
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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red sox 777 posted...

Trump keeps comparing himself to Lincoln, and Lincoln also ditched his VP after 1 term to pick someone from the other party.

Yeah and how did that turn out for him
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

A Biden/Romney ticket would make the intersectional left explode so I support it 100%.

Im not sure what you think the intersectional left already thinks of Biden but I assure you this is right in line with it
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Gotta wait to see if Raw has the MotY!
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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Wait, what happened?
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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lordjers posted...

I don't think you can get social value out of beating games lol. Not since school at least. It's more of a personal satisfaction.

In his circle you probably can!

If it was personal satisfaction then why would he care how other people get their own satisfaction? Does it cheapen his own satisfaction if other people had an easier time being satisfied?

(Insert How do I know when Im satisfied? meme here)
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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