Lurker > tennisdude818

Nobody wants you or your kids to not access healthcare. This issue here is, what is the most efficient way to provide it?

The US healthcare system is light years away from being a free market.

https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive

Whether we are talking about social spending in the US or other Western countries including Japan, programs are generally running deficits. And those deficits will get worse over time as wealthier demographic groups age and have fewer kids. We really have 2 options:

1) Get the government out of healthcare.

2) Cover our ears and eyes until mathematically unsustainable programs implode.

We dont have any right to borrow money from future generations to fund permanent social programs. Thats taxation without representation, and its not going to last forever.

Edit: actually we arent borrowing money from future generations. We are stealing it.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Villain posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Posters in this topic still think he pardoned people in the standoff...

No but this indirectly condones their behavior

No. See post #34.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Posters in this topic still think he pardoned people in the standoff...
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

*barf*
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

MC_BatCommander posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/10/trump-pardons-ranchers-whose-arrests-led-to-armed-occupation-wildlife-refuge.html

I think the OP is wrong. These were the guys who were arrested for burning federal land (which increased the lands value IIRC), not the guys who were involved in the standoff. This arrest triggered the standoff, but these guys didnt ask for any of that.

Yeah I was about to say, people should actually read the statement. The two guys being pardoned have already served most of their 5 year sentences.

So it's not as big of a deal, but still fucking dumb he's pardoning them just to go TAKE THAT OBAMA

The judge seriously threw the book at them, so their sentences seemed pretty extreme. But that fact was lost due to the standoff drama.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/10/trump-pardons-ranchers-whose-arrests-led-to-armed-occupation-wildlife-refuge.html

I think the OP is wrong. These were the guys who were arrested for burning federal land (which increased the lands value IIRC), not the guys who were involved in the standoff. This arrest triggered the standoff, but these guys didnt ask for any of that.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Sharapova is the worst in this regard. There should be noise violations at some point.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Bat178 posted...

PizzaPatty posted...

You guys do realize this is all fake news pushed by racists and white nationalist to make South Africa seem like some awful place when it is actually a great country in regards to race relations much better than america is so many regards.

I thought racists and white supremacists love South Africa because of Apartheid and Elon Musk.

Why would white supremacists like Elon Musk?
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Pear shaped
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

blablablax17 posted...

I don't feel sorry for these people.

Thats pretty messed up.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Good for them I suppose, but I would have recommended a better country than Russia. I guess they probably didn't have a whole lot of countries opening up their doors to them. Beggars can't be choosers, as they say.

Well the link is literally from state run Russian propaganda, so of course they are going to pump their own nation up

RT should generally be taken with a grain of salt (same with Western MSM sources on many subjects, e.g. Syria and Iraq), but I'm not sure how they should have covered this particular story differently.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

hardy3786 posted...

Sounds like Zimbabwe incident to me.

There is a risk that bureaucrats hand land out to friends and insiders rather than capable farmers. That would be a disaster because the Boer have big shoes to fill.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Kineth posted...

Russia doesn't exactly have much tillable/fertile land, let alone a warm water port. Maybe global warming has made the land more arable at this point.

I dont know the backstory to why they have so much unused farmland that appears to be state owned. If the government has just been sitting on that for years or decades, that seems pretty inefficient.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

https://www.rt.com/business/432375-russia-south-africa-farmers/

A delegation of 30 South African farming families has arrived in Russias farmbelt Stavropol Region, Rossiya 1 TV reports. The group says it is facing violent attacks and death threats at home.
Up to 15,000 Boers, descendants of Dutch settlers in South Africa, are planning to move to Russia amid rising violence stemming from government plans to expropriate their land, according to the delegation.

Its a matter of life and death there are attacks on us. Its got to the point where the politicians are stirring up a wave of violence, Adi Slebus told the media. The climate here [Stavropol Region] is temperate, and this land is created by God for farming. All this is very attractive.

The new South African government, led by President Cyril Ramaphosa, has pledged to return the lands owned by white farmers since the 1600s to the black citizens of the country. The government said it is planning to put an end to what it calls the legacy of apartheid, where most of South Africas land is still in the hands of its minority white population.

Rights groups have said the initiative incites violence. There were 74 farm murders and 638 attacks, primarily against white farmers, in 2016-17 in South Africa, according to data by minority rights group AfriForum.

The farmers are prepared to make a contribution to Russias booming agricultural sector, according to Rossiya 1. Each family is ready to bring up to $100,000 for leasing the land.

Russia has 43 million hectares of unused farmland, and has recently begun giving out free land to Russian citizens to cultivate farming. The land giveaway program, which began in 2014, has been a huge success.

Seems like a great example of win-win immigration. I hope it works out.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Lmao This is 10 years old! No way the media still has a problem with liberal propaganda today!
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Disgusting
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Because they are crazy.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

tote_all posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

, drugs arent so time consuming and expensive to get to market

Oh so you really don't know what you're talking about. I mean, I thought you were just overly focused on the political/economical debate, but you actually have no idea what you're saying.

tennisdude818 posted...

voluntary help is more able to fill the remaining gaps

And you are ironically suggesting charity for the terminally ill. Damn.

May I ask what field do you work on?

To be clear, I was saying we should reduce the footprint of government in the industry so that drugs would not take so long to get to market. You have to quote my entire sentence if thats where youre confused.

Im in a different area of finance now, but in the past I was involved in venture lending to tech and life science companies. The FDA really does put up massive multi year barriers to new drugs. You can try to argue that the lives saved from those protections outnumber the lives lost from delaying life extending drugs, but its impossible to know for sure. The FDA raises the barrier to profitability to the point that we will never know how many ideas were abandoned based on the cost/benefit analysis.

And yes, I think people would voluntarily step up and help poor people obtain healthcare. Especially if the government steps out of the way, leading to lower prices and taxes. That is much more moral than saddling the next generation with debt from present social program spending.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

So they are remaking Broly. Hopefully his backstory is better than last time. I want his IQ to be above 50.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

I voted for him but I dont call myself a Republican.

I dislike the fact that he is continuing our wars in the ME. I was hoping he would do a better job of putting America first rather than Israel and the military industrial complex.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

tote_all posted...

I'm not sure why you even posted something like that when the issue is "what happens if someone needs treatment they can't afford".

What is your proposal for that?

As opposed to bloated government programs that will likely implode in our lifetimes? Get the government out if it so prices can come down, drugs arent so time consuming and expensive to get to market, and so voluntary help is more able to fill the remaining gaps.

Big pharma likes being over regulated because it prevents competition.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

tote_all posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

tote_all posted...

Do you actually believe "deficit financing" means "accumulating debt"? It doesn't. It means the money comes from somewhere else.

That ridiculous mentality that makes you believe nothing can run without making a direct monetary profit is flawed.

It means borrowing or printing to make up the difference between tax revenues and expenditures. It's less sustainable to have to borrow to fund permanent social programs than to fund temporary projects like a new bridge. Keep in mind that interest rates have been low for decades which enabled massive government growth across the West and Japan. Rates won't stay low forever.

Making people dependent on unsustainable programs really isn't all that good for anyone in the end, but that doesn't stop the UHC proponents from thinking that they have a moral high ground. Part of that comes from mistaking the US as a free market (our healthcare system isn't even close). And part of it comes from the typical leftist attitude from not caring about deficits, unless it's politically advantageous to temporarily pretend to care for partisan reasons (e.g. Paul Krugman).

"People shouldn't be denied treatment they need to survive or have a decent quality of life"

"BUT THE LEFT"

Shut the fuck up about left vs right already.

Im not sure why you even quoted me if youre just going to post something like that.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

DarthWendy posted...

Because American liberals, like any other country's liberals, only praise democracy and the sovereign will of the people only as long as it suits their agenda. When it stops doing so, they would shut actual democracy down in an instant if they could. Or attempt to swap the people. Pretty much what the Eurocrats and unelected EU kommissars are trying to do in the EU.

Basically this. When people vote against the will of liberal technocrats, its called populism and is dangerous.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Romes187 posted...

have we defined negative versus positive rights itt yet

i didnt read

Post 49. Nobody responded.

tennisdude818 posted...

A free market in health care would result in lower prices, so it would be easier to help poor people through voluntary means rather than via government coercion.

I believe in negative rights, not positive rights. Negative rights include the right to not be attacked, robbed, censored, etc. Positive rights are rights to goods and services, and cannot coexist with negative rights. If a poor person has a "positive right" to goods and services, then the "negative rights" of others must be violated through wealth redistribution. I think it's much more moral to help people voluntarily than by stealing.

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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

tote_all posted...

Do you actually believe "deficit financing" means "accumulating debt"? It doesn't. It means the money comes from somewhere else.

That ridiculous mentality that makes you believe nothing can run without making a direct monetary profit is flawed.

It means borrowing or printing to make up the difference between tax revenues and expenditures. It's less sustainable to have to borrow to fund permanent social programs than to fund temporary projects like a new bridge. Keep in mind that interest rates have been low for decades which enabled massive government growth across the West and Japan. Rates won't stay low forever.

Making people dependent on unsustainable programs really isn't all that good for anyone in the end, but that doesn't stop the UHC proponents from thinking that they have a moral high ground. Part of that comes from mistaking the US as a free market (our healthcare system isn't even close). And part of it comes from the typical leftist attitude from not caring about deficits.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

"U.S Embassy in Haiti warns Americans to 'shelter in place' as violent protests escalate"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/07/08/u-s-embassy-in-haiti-warns-americans-to-shelter-in-place-as-violent-protests-escalate.html

The U.S. embassy in the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince told American citizens to remain inside until further notice Sunday as the city continues to be gripped by violent protests.

"Do not travel to the airport unless you confirmed your flight is departing, the State Department cautioned. "Flights are canceled today [Sunday] and the airport has limited food and water available.

"Telecommunication services, including internet and phone lines, have been affected throughout Haiti. It may be difficult to reach people through normal communication methods."

The State Department also expressed its "deepest condolences" to all those affected by the ongoing violence.

We are closely monitoring the situation and remain in close contact with Haitian authorities to verify the welfare and whereabouts of U.S. citizens in the area, added the travel advisory.

At least three people have been killed, including two protesters who were fatally shot by authorities and a security guard who was beaten to death by demonstrators after attempting to disperse a crowd by firing his gun into the air.

An estimated 120 Americans are believed to be staying at a Port-au-Prince hotel targeted by protesters, who attempted to bypass security and set the building ablaze. Youth groups and missionaries from an array of U.S churches are also stranded in the Caribbean nation, unable to make it safely to the airport for departure.

The Haitian government on Saturday halted a planned fuel price hike after tension and fighting escalated late last week. Haiti Prime Minister Jack Guy Lafontant had previously declared that fuel prices needed to be raised to balance the budget and announced a 38 percent increase for gasoline, diesel and kerosene. Despite the Lafontant government's concession to public pressure, the anger and remains.

A source on the ground in Haiti described the situation as "on fire" and only getting worse, with more major demonstrations expected Sunday in the wealthy enclave of Ption-Ville, south-east of the capital city.

"Government vehicles are moving to high ground, we have been told to initiate total lockdown measures immediately, the source added. We have to see what develops.

Wow. What a shithole.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

tote_all posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Yeah, thats why we need to get the government out of healthcare.

Lmao, do you really think that's the issue?

What do you know about healthcare in places that aren't the US?

I know that they generally rely on deficit financing, which wont last forever.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Dark_Spiret posted...

you dont have the right to someone elses labor.

that said the current system is so convoluted that it pushes prices to obscene levels. im personally not in favor of gibs me dat, but the whole thing should atleast be easier for everyone to get and actually make sense (getting literally a few bandages on your leg for a cut shouldnt cost hundreds of dollars).

Yeah, thats why we need to get the government out of healthcare.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Its fair to call privileged Yale students crying over oppression snowflakes.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

MedzXVIII posted...

HIV is racist
https://pics.me.me/los-angeles-times-los-angeles-times-trial-offer-4-32782839.png

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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

stunning and brave
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

A free market in health care would result in lower prices, so it would be easier to help poor people through voluntary means rather than via government coercion.

I believe in negative rights, not positive rights. Negative rights include the right to not be attacked, robbed, censored, etc. Positive rights are rights to goods and services, and cannot coexist with negative rights. If a poor person has a "positive right" to goods and services, then the "negative rights" of others must be violated through wealth redistribution. I think it's much more moral to help people voluntarily than by stealing.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

chrono625 posted...

Getting into med school is one thing.

Actually passing and progressing is a whole other thing. I wouldnt worry too much. If someone cant hack it or is unqualified that will show during their actual school career and during clinicals and residence.

I don't doubt that wildly unqualified people can't graduate. I'm talking about a marginal reduction in quality.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Sayoria posted...

More recently in April, Khan tweeted, If he comes to London, President Trump will experience an open and diverse city that has always chosen unity over division and hope over fear. He will also no doubt see that Londoners hold their liberal values of freedom of speech very dear.

lmao
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

If we lower standards to fill diversity quotas, we will likely end up with a marginal increase in medical unforced errors on a national scale. Is AA worth it?


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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

I wonder how far these feminist rules will eventually go.

Can you please sign this consent form allowing me to ask you out for a cup of coffee?
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Katamari Damacy
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

He didn't destroy Libya.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

My A/C sucked when I lived in Pasadena last year. Glad Im out of there now.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

This is what happens when stupid losers who run on emotions are told that the president is literally a Nazi.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

I really wish I had that during college. My dad had something like that.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Has really loud conversations right behind you while you are on a conference call.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

Supersets 5 machines or benches at a busy gym, leaving a towel or water bottle at each spot.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

I went to a ramen place that was run by white guys and it sucked. Ramen is supposedly very difficult though.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

My wife is Japanese. She is pretty quick to point out when Chinese people are running a Japanese restaurant, and it doesnt make her happy.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

The MSM criticism of Trump isnt even helpful though. They loved him when he bombed Syria. I was hoping that Democrats would pretend to be antiwar again.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

DoomsSD posted...

If only they'd had guns this wouldn't have happened...

Im not sure what kind of firepower 3 people would need for 6 lions. Probably a lot.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

ThePrinceFish posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

The handler heard the lions. Wonder if he heard screaming as well an thought, oh well.

Lions kill by crushing the windpipe and suffocating their prey. I wonder if they do this while they killing humans. If so, there would be no screaming. And it would be terrifying.

Thats a brutal way to go.
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"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell